Vinland, the Land of Wealth and Ambition

[Son Of Tiw]

Interesting TL overall, though I think you take some liberties too far.

For one, it's interesting that, especially in the beginning, given that Icelanders seem to make up a majority of the Vinnish population (and Icelanders being Icelanders) yet they are content to let Bjarny boss them around as if he were their king; even if he is smart enough to not claim such a title.

Second, how come Bjarny has no other enemies (apart from the Pagans as a group) opposing him? After Thorkell, he didn't seem to have any rivals (as Thorfinn proved to be spineless) around, which I find strange for a Norse society. It seems more likely to me that each of at least the larger settlements would want consider themselves independent entities, much like he situation in pre-unified Norway. Why hasn't it turned into a pale comparison to the petty, squabbling, kingdoms situation. How come we didn't and don't have more local leaders attempting to challenge Bjarny's rule.

Also, why would the exiled king of Norway seek shelter halfway around the world, when the Rus are so much closer. It would be easier to launch an attack from Rus lands than it would be from Vinland. I'm no sailor but, with the exception of Bjarny's pet woodworking projects, aren't we still at a point where it is difficult and dangerous to cross over the Arctic side. How come trade seems to be so regular?

Lastly, given Ake Carrsson was smart enough to realize that he couldn't wage a war with Bjarny, why did he attempt to do just that? Let's remember that even the Vikings knew when to run and when to fight. They only engaged in battles they thought they could win. If an enemy was deemed to strong or put up too big a resistance, they left to find easier targets. There is absolutely no reason for Ake Carrsson to pull off such a stunt when he clearly knows that he does not have the numbers. Fleeing to foreign lands was a tried and true method for Norsemen who were oppressed by tyrants. It would make more sense if Carrsson had attempted to flee into the interior, far from the Vinnish colonies at the start and began forging alliances with previously unafilliated tribes. I wonder if you are planning to end their story with a paganish-Quebec type situation; like having a relatively large, majority pagan kingdom surrounded by Christian territories, where the pagans are strong enough to hold that land, but lack the resources to expand beyond it.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Interesting TL overall, though I think you take some liberties too far.

For one, it's interesting that, especially in the beginning, given that Icelanders seem to make up a majority of the Vinnish population (and Icelanders being Icelanders) yet they are content to let Bjarny boss them around as if he were their king; even if he is smart enough to not claim such a title.

Second, how come Bjarny has no other enemies (apart from the Pagans as a group) opposing him? After Thorkell, he didn't seem to have any rivals (as Thorfinn proved to be spineless) around, which I find strange for a Norse society. It seems more likely to me that each of at least the larger settlements would want consider themselves independent entities, much like he situation in pre-unified Norway. Why hasn't it turned into a pale comparison to the petty, squabbling, kingdoms situation. How come we didn't and don't have more local leaders attempting to challenge Bjarny's rule.

Also, why would the exiled king of Norway seek shelter halfway around the world, when the Rus are so much closer. It would be easier to launch an attack from Rus lands than it would be from Vinland. I'm no sailor but, with the exception of Bjarny's pet woodworking projects, aren't we still at a point where it is difficult and dangerous to cross over the Arctic side. How come trade seems to be so regular?

Lastly, given Ake Carrsson was smart enough to realize that he couldn't wage a war with Bjarny, why did he attempt to do just that? Let's remember that even the Vikings knew when to run and when to fight. They only engaged in battles they thought they could win. If an enemy was deemed to strong or put up too big a resistance, they left to find easier targets. There is absolutely no reason for Ake Carrsson to pull off such a stunt when he clearly knows that he does not have the numbers. Fleeing to foreign lands was a tried and true method for Norsemen who were oppressed by tyrants. It would make more sense if Carrsson had attempted to flee into the interior, far from the Vinnish colonies at the start and began forging alliances with previously unafilliated tribes. I wonder if you are planning to end their story with a paganish-Quebec type situation; like having a relatively large, majority pagan kingdom surrounded by Christian territories, where the pagans are strong enough to hold that land, but lack the resources to expand beyond it.

Thanks, good to see some criticism every once in a while.

For the reason Bjarny was in charge is mostly because his father and grandfather were both paramount chiefs, and in Vinlands case he let them rule themselves fr the most part but overall would order some things here and there mostly to deal with threats and the like. And given how he lead much of the men into battles with the Skraelings or others they have grown loyal to him somewhat. And while if he claimed title of king there would be anger of course but even Icelanders who were used to the poverty of their former lands were more than content with a very rich land in Vinland. (Given how I try to write it like a historical document it hinted at him secretly lynching and disposing of unwanted members in the allthing or anyone with power).

And he did have Snorri Thorfinnsson as a rival for a while but the main reason being the Skraelings were a constant threat and the large well defended towns he made sure were Loyal to him and if the smaller ones sent out too many men to do something odds are they might come back to find their families butchered and were on constant support from the larger settlements. And as I said the people are somewhat more loyal to the Paramount chief than they are to local chieftains so they might not be super eager to start a conflict with someone they like and also fear.

And the Reason Olaf II sought refuge was because he was in contact with Bjarny Leifsson who had given him aid and there would have been less prying eyes on his son which he sent first. Also because OTL in Iceland there were fears of Canute trying to conquer it so from there he was able to get troops. As for the North Atlantic crossing a safer route has been established where they would jump straight to Iceland and the fact it's not direct trade and the items are usually passed through many hands and they're only the valuable items really such as gold and in sometimes pelts although not so much on the Mainland as Scandinavia, Finland, and Russia produce enough pelts for the markets there. And given how in the Greenland and Iceland colonies they had to import wood from Norway it's possible to travel the arctic relatively safely if your experienced in it.

Ake Carrsson actually had quite a bit of troops on him (I just realized I forgot to really mention that) but they still lost due to the extreme demoralization coming from the death of the Chief. And Carrsson would have pledged allegiance to Bjarny but given how he did the same thing with Thorfinn after Thorkell bit the dust Bjarny would be highly suspicious; especially given how he was the direct reason for the death of two close people to him I would guess the suspicion would be sound.
And Ivarstad is more in Manitoba and they might just survive as a petty kingdom lingering on because the more powerful have better things to do.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

How would you rate the TL so far since the last time I asked? Anything I can do to make it better ?

Also doing one last two-year update and the next will be longer, I'm thinking of making it five or six instead of a whopping ten.

1043-1045

When the revolt in Elgurland was heard of, Bjarny Leifsson had gone personally to Snorrisborg on ship with six hundred men leaving his two sons to govern the lands while he was gone. When the ships had arrived most of the population had fled, after questioning some of the remaining inhabitants it was found many had taken refuge in a town that was founded to the west. Bjarny had a local Skraeling reveal the location and had his ships follow a small river that supposedly led to the lake near the settlement. The scouting ships were absolutely devastated with only half the men returning back alive, the pagans had celebrated this as a victory but also increased their defenses.

Bjarny; after taking an arrow to the shoulder came to the conclusion that it would be too hard to eliminate them immediately and sought to increase the defenses of Snorrisborg, given how costly and hard it was to find let alone attack Ivarstad Bjarny Leifsson had the warriors under his command stay in Snorrisborg for defensive purposes and to extract gold in the nearby areas. Bjarny had also had his men build a large trench, wall, and other fortifications around the town, a trench so large that the river flooded into it making it a moat. The wall was made with stacked riverstones with clay, a very primitive wall but effective and thorn buches had begun to be planted all around the perimeter. The fortifications allowed it to be easily taken by large assault from the sea but for the small size and low numbers of ships and fighters not to mention the poor quality of their weapons and what little armor they had means it was virtually impregnable in theory.

Bjarny had decided that trying to defeat the Pagans in a fight immediately was impossible and decided to keep Snorrisborg as a hub for the gold mining efforts, but this however was coming into question as various gold deposits were found in the interior of the Island of Vinland and nuggets were found. Gold dust and flakes were found all over but the technology to separate them from other silt and to reliably collect them was not known to the Norse so nuggets were the only means of a resource for gold, nuggets were found in the banks of the rivers in Elgurland but the sources were beginning to dry up and people had to move further and further inland along the rivers to get the gold they had wished for. While Elgurland had been and still was a strong source of Gold it appears it's importance is slowly fading, however adventurous lads willing to exploit the supposed "Great Ice Passages" that harbored the vast gold deposits once described by Olaf Thorgilsson. One man who had ventured up many rivers into the extreme west of the passages describes how abundant Gold was and how they had easily traded wool cloth for many pounds of gold from the Skraelings.

In Thorkellsborg, Iron products were the best in the Norse world mostly due to imported Frankish blacksmiths and their most expertise knowledge of it in the known world; The quality Iron of Thorkellsborg and some other deposits around the area had proved to be useful for war supplies and every soldier under Bjarny and the Allthing's command had a full suit of mail, sword and sometimes other assortment of weapons. The new 'cavalry' had used mostly swords but like said earlier the glaive and other pole arms had begun to see use. Most weapons were made from Steel due to the amount of slaves and former slaves that were blacksmiths and with the rich farmlands to the south and their own farms it was easily supported and Thorkellsborg had become a hub for the exportation of Metals and Fish.

In Leifsbudir a portion of the population moved to Skraelsigrad due to overpopulation, Leifsbudir was starting to lose value and transitioning from the one great and powerful port to a simple shipyard town. It still had some value from trade with Europe but most merchants decided to sell their wares further south in Thorkellsborg and Saeturland. Bjarny Leifsson's attempt to have slaves clear the land of trees had an unexpected consequence; erosion. He had hoped it would turn into rich grassland for sheep like Iceland but warmer which in some parts it was but the soil on the steep mountains being held by the roots of trees were now sliding off the hills and mountains, much of the fresh water had become muddy causing an exodus in some parts of the area to other lands. Merchants and Sailors had noticed and according to the saga, "Ye know when you get to the (North) Tip of the (Isle) of Vinland by the mud of the sea water".

Along the River Nawa (Great River) the Portage point farms had begun to into grow prosperous communities that farmed the Gulurskera and wheat and were exporting the extra to the town of Nawahlid. Maple sugar which had become a large part of the economy as loads of it was being exported to Iceland, the ship building in Saeturland was enormous as well. Warships and civilian ships were being built and exported; however the new ships that were built more robust for the hard waters to the south were being built more and more. The quality of the wood was far greater than any trees in Europe and they were much more seaworthy; with the threats of Skraelings and other enemies, Bjarny Leifsson had needed large amounts of ships to transport his warriors to combat these threats and many were being built solely for this purpose.

In the Great Fief the population has nearly quadrupled with the newborn children, the population at this time was around thirty five thousand in total. The rise in population had greatly pleased the Allthing and Bjarny Leifsson and nearly all of them were loyal to the Paramount Chief, seeing him as a brave warrior who had led the fight against the men of Elgurland and the Skraelings many times. However Bjarny Leifsson was growing into his middle age and had begun to get much grey hair and hair was beginning to fall out.

Gudbrand Bjarnysson who was nineteen years old as of this point had taken thirty seven men and women to start a colony in Grunnland. Gudbrand was not favored by the populace of Vinland and despite being the older brother many were hoping and advocating for his younger brother Birger who was now seventeen to succeed his father Bjarny Leifsson as Paramount Chieftain of The Great Fief, and the public opinion was more favorable to Birger in most cases, however in Markland and the North of Vinland there was some who favored Gudbrand. Despite the possible feud the two brothers did not think much ill of each other.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Feels weird making an update when no one has replied to the last one and it's been around two weeks so not too sure if people even care about this anymore, the views are about three hundred away from eleven thousand so I guess people are still interested.

Also first time doing a longer than two or three years update so let me know if I'm not suited to this style or if you would prefer to go back to the two or three years format, Open to criticism of course. Also the true identities of Scottish kings and the names the Norse gave to them is seriously messed up so in those regards I'm going by lots of assumptions.

1046-1051

On the great Isle of Vinland which was larger than Ireland and Iceland and almost as large as Britain there had been some ecological problems developing; Pigs. Pigs somehow had been introduced to the wild and had reverted to their pre-domesticated state and became what we know today as the Vinnish Boar, they had been attacking Norse farms and livestock and even some growing large enough to hurt children. The Skraelings had it much worse than the Norse did as they relied on the ecosystem much more and much of the wild plants they ate were being consumed by the masses of boars and other animals, naturally this lead to them hunting boar. The 'Vinnish Sausage' was probably invented around this time by Skraelings by placing strips of boar meat over a rack to be slowly cooked and smoked, at some point in time this had been adopted by the Norse.

Another problem was goats, all over Vinland and the isles around it goats were introduced to make way for exploitation by the Norse and to mark explored land. The craggy islands where the early Norse settlements started due to defend-ability were full of goats, the problem was not large on the mainland but there was a feral goat presence. This was celebrated by the Norse and with the goats being able to digest nearly every plant had made them prominent but easy prey for wolves and other predators, however on the islands where they were introduced there had not been many predators resulting in large populations of goats who are only limited every few generations by mass die off from over consumption or Capture/killed by humans: Skraeling or Norse.

The extreme Erosion caused by the deforestation had mostly ended leaving behind much grassland and sheep had thrived, so much so that loads of wool was being shipped to all over the Fief and to Iceland as well for a cheap price. Nearly half the forest North of the Bjornsvirk had been cleared and the interior of the Northern Arm and discoveries of soap stone and other workable stones were being discovered, even some small amounts of gold.

In Iceland the immigration of the poor and common man had led to the richer and more powerful families to rise in importance, Iceland was becoming nearly dictated by the rich. The rich were only getting richer with the seizure of land that was left abandoned at times when no one wished to buy the farms of the immigrants who were leaving for Vinland. They were also some of the only ones to send their ship(s) to Vinland to buy materials such as furs, ivory, precious metals, iron and steel products, wines, sugar, sometimes salted fish and grain, and sell them for higher price in Iceland. When they had traded slaves from Europe they made extreme profits, however the demand for slaves was not as large as it was before, with two generations having been born into vinland had made that Female population was about nearly half of the total population but it was slightly leaning in the Male population with immigration that had maintained female slave trade, along with needs of workers and the like.

In Iberia the Muslim powers had been in a state of turmoil for quite some time since the Caliphate of Cordoba fell into ruin and the rise of the small petty Taifas, with support from the papacy and the rest of Europe in small amounts the Christian powers were ready to attempt to reclaim the peninsula. If all had gone well then it would mean that the christian Mediterranean coast would be able to be connected to the Atlantic coast. The vikings on the Heittejyar who had enjoyed the easy life of raiding Arab settlements and the easy fish of the sea just west of them had become close allies to the Christians in the Iberian peninsula; Particularly to King of Leon and count of Castille, Ferdinand the first. Ferdinand had taken an interest into the Norsemen who inhabited the Islands, many were Christian but there was a large pagan population. Ferdinand had considered using the same strategy as the Byzantine Emperors and using them as bodyguards, however there were only three hundred men or so on the Islands; however he could have gotten mercenaries from other Norse inhabited areas. He was surely about to get into a battle with his brother Garcia Sanchez the Third of Navarre even though they had been on good relations beforehand but now things were changing.

Ferdinand had hired around two hundred Norse mercenaries for his army, and had gained several counties with his army and the Mercenaries. Due to the Norse's habits of killing nearly every Man, Women, and Child with the exception of those they wanted as slaves there had been much land to settle; Many Norse settled down there and owned large pieces of land where they had acted as militia and as a first line of defense against invasion. The Norse's treatment of Arab slaves was documented by an escaped slave as: "They had forced us to eat Pork and drink Wine, both of which were expensive treasures to them, that they had been so willing to spite the followers of Allah disturbs me. They had then forced us to wear clothing dyed in pork blood and work the fields all day and our wives and daughters pleasure them all Night. When one would not comply with their demands they had their dogs chase them down and kill them, the infidels of the yellow hair are probably the farthest from the word of Allah".

The Greenland colonies were nearly abandoned save the few farms there to take advantage of trade and the Northern goods like Ivory and such, there were also shipwrights there to fix any ship that had been pushed ashore and needed repairs. Trade was not as prosperous as it once was, now trade between Vinland and Iceland was direct with established routes and the like. This had allowed travelers to be farther away from the rocky coast of Greenland and less chance of being wrecked by Icebergs, making it a much safer route If one was experienced with it. This was hard for Greenland, another problem was Skraelings to the North had been seen migrating to the south of their original area, Greenland's main advantage over Vinland was no Skraelings to try and fight with but now an Influx of Skraelings were moving south although not necessarily hostile.

In Norway Harald Sigurdsson also known as Harald Hardrada had been working with his Nephew Magnus Olafsson and the various chieftains in the North Sea isles to work on a joint invasion of England against Canute who was now in his sixties. Canute's son Harold Harefoot was originally designed to be his Heir to the Throne of England but his other son Harthacnut was more popular among the Nobles. Harthacnut was very ambitious and was suspicious to Harold and Canute, Canute had never allowed him to lead an army or be in one which worked in keeping any rebellions at bay. One day however King Canute had caught a serious sickness and in his age was worrying as he was unable to move and could hardly speak, Harthacnut saw an opening and decided to forge an Alliance with Magnus Olafsson but not with his uncle Harald Sigurdsson.

Magnus Olafsson wielding his father's battle axe led an army of thirten thousand Danish troops to assist Harthacnut and some of the English Nobles who had sided with him. Thorfinn Sigurdsson and King Duncan of Scotland had moved their small amount of troops south, however Harthacnut's Noble Allies had taken up resistance three days march south of the center of attention near the two old Roman Walls. The main army of Canute was stationed there and was now on a double sided attack from the south and North and had eventually retreated to the south through boat to the city of Jorvik or as it was known to the English as York where Canute was resting, it was not long after the Army stationed in York that Canute the Great who had once had a North Sea Empire Ranging from Norway to England to Denmark to Sweden and even some plans of the various Isles of the North Sea: had died.

The whole of England mourned the loss, not so much as they liked the King but because he had brought some sense of stability in the many years of war before his kingship and now the Fertile Plains of England are again under attack from the Norsemen. Many Nobles saw the death of Canute and the Rise of Magnus and Harthacnut as the dawn of a new reign, the small minority of nobles who did not immediately flock to Harthacnut's side and did not support him fled the country; Some went to Normandy, some to parts of Sweden, some to the Rus, and even a few that fled to Vinland albeit they were probably the fewest.

Harald Sigurdsson also known as Harald Hardrada was probably shook by what he saw as the betrayal of his nephew and their refusal to have him in the war under the excuse of a couple bad harvests to Norway that all in all did not matter. Harald had virtually no allies aside from his vassals and advisers, so he looked for some and found a powerful man: the Duke of Normandy, William the First. William had designs of the British Isles but was waiting for an opportunity to strike, Harald had sent an envoy to William supporting a division of the Land of England. The division would Include the vast territory of Northumbria/Jorvik and the land west of it go to Harald while the rest of England would go to William and that Harald would support a conquest by William to Ireland and/or Wales if they are allowed to loot whatever treasures they can obtain whilst in the war. William agreed but only on accounts of some minor land exchanges and such.

Harthacnut had planned to have himself crowned as King of England of course but Magnus Olafsson did not help him try and take the crown out of the goodness of his heart; Magnus Olafsson had demanded gold and silver in return. While the outcome of the war was clear it was not yet over, when Magnus had moved troops around for some reason or another Harthacnut had interpreted it as him attempting to subdue him and take the crown of England for himself. Harthacnut then summoned Magnus to a meeting where he was captured and held hostage where his second in command was ordered to sail the Danish Armies back to Denmark or else the kings life was forfeit.

The second of the command of the Danish army Eric Halvorsson had not received the full message; He had been informed of the Kings capture but not of the threat posed by Harthacnut. He had sent word to King Duncan the first of Scotland who immediately called his small yet effective army who easily breached the former Roman walls. Thorfinn Sigurdsson the Earl of Orkney had led his troops south along the western coast of Britain. To these threats Harthacnut had in a panic Magnus Olafsson executed by blood eagle, to those not familiar with the blood eagle it was a popular form of execution among the Norse in which a man is laid on his back and the rib cage is busted open from the backside and the lungs pulled out to resemble wings.

This however meant that the second in command was now not held back by anything, he had marched his troops to meet Harthacnut in battle. The battle was said to last over six hours with the Danish army initially having the upper hand but the Army under Harthacnut was able to push them back into retreat but not after taking many loses themselves. It had resulted in a stalemate with Harthacnut having most of his powers between the two old Roman Walls while Eric Halvorsson was in de facto control in most of England with the farther away Earls keeping to themselves independently.

With the death of Magnus Olafsson, Harald Sigurdsson who was his half uncle (His mother was Magnus' grandmother but share no other ancestry), had laid claim to the Throne of Denmark and the territories in Sweden under the Danish crown. Magnus' only son Konstantin who was named after the Roman emperor Constantine (Similar to how Magnus Olafsson was named after one of Charlemagne's names), was forced to flee with his mother being only four years old from Denmark seeking the western land his father and grandfather sought refuge. However Konstantin was on a separate ship from his mother and on the way from Denmark to Fareo the ship she had been on had sunk. When Konstantin Magnussson had arrived in Vinland the somewhat aged Bjarny Leifsson had greeted Konstantin the same way he had greeted Magnus.

With nearly no close caretakers and what little servants remained were little more than maids and bodyguards, Bjarny had decided that Konstantine would be educated under and brought up as the adopted by his son Birger. This was partly because Bjarny was too busy and old, the other part being Birger had not yet fathered a son but being only twenty one this wasn't too surprising. It was now somewhat obvious that Bjarny had decided that Birger would be the one to succeed him and Gudbrand was not fond of this, he and others had petitioned Bjarny about dividing the land after his death but according to sagas Bjarny's response was: "Nay. Division of the land given to us, the Line of Eric and Leif will only bring disaster and disgrace among our name. I spent much money for you to learn the ways and history of the men of the south (probably referring to the non-Scandinavian Europe), I know little but what I know is that all things great come to an end from division." The line of "All things great come to an end from Division" had become a philosophical center point for the Vinnish people later in history.

In Markland it was observed that around this time there were some successful results of domesticating Muskoxen by keeping them with Cattle as while they are more closely related to goats and sheep, their social habits are similar. The wool from them was notably different but held no practical use.

In the Frelsiland (formerly a part of Hnetaland)(OTL Prince Edward Island), so much land was being cleared and nearly all deer had been hunted in large portions of the island. The Town of Einarstad was growing and the extremely flat land led for the construction of large spacious houses. The house of the Chieftain was certainly large, it had used cobbled stone walls with mortar and had two floors supported by wooden beams, the Church was just as grand with cobbled stone and lime plaster. The Bishop of Vinland was said to report to the church that: "The Lord is most certainly pleased with the efforts the former pagans have put into the house of God, Rivaling churches in the rest of the Dane world." (Many Europeans refereed to all Norsemen in general as Danes).

The new settlements in Frelsiland were expanding greatly too, the large lagoons that numbered so many provided calm waters full of fish and fertile flat farmland. With nearly the entire island slaughtering or assimilating the Skraelings there was little threat and with it's close proximity to Bjarnystad Islands allowed for large immigration from the over populated isles, Frelsiland had exported so much crops that Grain became so common and lost it's value so much that shipments to Iceland were plausible. The grain stores were so numerous and large that they could consume grain for years on the stores.

On the coasts of the Great Fief a new class was emerging, Merchants who took part in the fur trade and other things had lived permanently on their ships with their families who would camp on the coast for the night. The majority of the people doing this were either assimilated Skraelings or part Skraelings, the rest were mainly Slaves from various other countries who gained their freedom and started families but had trouble assimilating into Norse society or didn't even want to. Most of the slaves came from the Baltic, Ireland, England, Germany and the Dutch regions but there were some slaves from Norse countries as well. Many of these former slaves married Skraelings and adopted parts of their culture.

The Norse communities welcomed these sea caravans as they allowed much more abundant trade items and more frequent contact with the many communities. Some of these Sea caravans had multiple ships but would at times get separated, they had been known to go as far south as Thorskurland but rarely traveled too far away from communities which they were dependent on for trade and ship/tool repairs.

These people's camps are a boon to Archaeologists as they leave behind many crucial details on Norse culture at the time, they even have many signature artworks reminiscent of the countries they came from including ivory and soapstone carvings that integrate native Skraeling arts as well. Some even gained enough wealth to travel back to their home countries, others went back and came back with others but most of these sea caravans clung to the coast for the most part and did not risk long sea voyages with no land in sight.

In Saeturland the red oak had made fine ships and each wood had it's own advantages to ships, new techniques had made where the Hulls of ships would have two layers. Ships had an inner layer of wood that would be extremely thin but would make it safer for longer voyages and enable larger ships to be less likely to capsize and more stable. It also came with making the ships more sturdy by fitting the thin inner planks tightly before the ship is ever set into water allowing the outer planks to expand when in water to create a more secure structure.

In Hnetaland the town of Olafstad had trouble with growing crops but the fishing and hunting were enough to get by, on the eastern Island of Hnetaland it was discovered to contain large Lakes on the interior. The lakes were rich in Salmon and many wanted to start colonies there, there was good farmland as well but for the moment no one was willing to do it yet.

It was also around this time that Ragnar Bjornsson had died, interest in the western lands had begun to die with people looking for adventure south along the sea coast. However there was one explorer, Thorgil Ragnarsson the son of Ragnar Bjornsson who wanted to live up to his fathers reputation by leading seventy men with cargo over a long distance to the larger cities he had heard about. The sagas say he wanted to succeed his father as chieftain of Storfoss but wasn't able to, he had left with some ships to transport him to the villages his father had visited years before but this time he would go south along the large river there with portaged boats and go much further.

He had done some small business in the towns his father had been to but he traveled on the boats far to the south, unlike his father he had no guide and had merely visited the settlements and was only able to come across those close to the river. By the end of the year 1051 he had reached a point where the river converged with many other rivers leading to a much larger river, the settlements he came across all said that the river led to an ocean to the south, Thorgil Ragnarsson had wanted to keep going but the rivers freezing over forced him to make camp and wait until spring.

In Norway Harald Sigurdsson had an empire almost as Large as Cnut's when it was in it's prime, the one thing missing was the fertile plains of England. He had faced little resistance to his reign at first in Denmark but there were signs of disloyalty. The records are blurred but somehow he had gotten into a conflict with the Jomsvikings which he won and burnt Jomsborg to the ground, he had agreed to let the men live if they had converted to Christianity and made a pilgrimage to Rome; Only five of them accepted with the rest either dying in battle or refusal to convert.

With the destruction of the Jomsvikings and the former Jomsvikings that left the order years before to join Magnus Olafsson's army and converted had no place in Scandinavia had went to Faroe where they were cast out by the chieftains there. It is unknown how many they numbered but probably numbered somewhere around fifty or forty men. They had then turned south to Orkney but they were asked to leave due to a bad year leaving food tight, desperate they turned to the land to the west they had heard about while in Faroe.

They had gone to Iceland for resupply when they found the Wine and Ivory traders from Leifsbudir and had traveled back with them where they had integrated into the warriors of the Paramount Chieftain who had traveled frequently to enforce the law and beat back any Skraeling attacks.

In Nawahlid, there had been large amounts of construction for houses and new walls. The houses were often times made from cobbled limestone due to a few large fires over the years, they were constructed much like the houses on Isles were wood was largely unavailable but the difference being is they were covered in a plaster and had a primitive type of mortar. The Walls were built using large river stones, they were at first built out of wood but Skraelings had a tendency to burn down wooden structures in warfare. The stones were unworked and had been primitively been piled on the other, it was reinforced with dirt packed into the crevices from a Large trench in front of the wall.

In Thorkellsborg Bjarny Leifsson had some of his personal slaves build simple roads between some of the other settlements a few miles from the town, they were built similar in style to the way roads in Norway were built. These new roads would be important for the trade of the poorer people who could not afford frequent usage of ships, it had also allowed for easier transportation of wood into the town for construction and burning.

But yes, Comment and share your thoughts.
Side note; Will Bavarian Raven ever finish his tl?

 

[tonsofun]

Feels weird making an update when no one has replied to the last one and it's been around two weeks so not too sure if people even care about this anymore, the views are about three hundred away from eleven thousand so I guess people are still interested.

Don't let the lack of replies put you off. It often means that those who are enjoying this have nothing productive to say. I personally know nothing of Scandinavian culture and history around this time so there isn't a lot I can add. I am enjoying it still and I can guarantee plenty more people are too.
Keep it up.

 

[altwere]

I think that this is one of the best Vinland TL I have read. I have been greatly enjoying it.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

I think that this is one of the best Vinland TL I have read. I have been greatly enjoying it.

Thanks, guess I will continue then

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Don't let the lack of replies put you off. It often means that those who are enjoying this have nothing productive to say. I personally know nothing of Scandinavian culture and history around this time so there isn't a lot I can add. I am enjoying it still and I can guarantee plenty more people are too.
Keep it up.

I didn't know a whole lot either but having to be historically correct in the TL makes me read wikipedia like a madman so making TLs improve our historical knowledge.

 

[Uff Da the optimist]

I second both comments!

Don't always have something to say, just eagerly awaiting more. But I like how the butterflies are starting to flap their wings wildly with the battle for England, the taifas and reconquista and not to mention Vinland itself.
With norse people settling parts of Castille, how is the cultural exchange going? I imagine the norse will turn Castillian in a few generations, no?

By now, shouldn't there be enticing tales of an unexplored land/island to the west of Greenland with free land for farming and fish galore?
I can't help thinking about a sort of "gold rush", but for farmland. Especially come the little ice age in the 13th century.

Thank you for the lovely update, keep it up!

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Just realized I have more content than pretty much very other Vinland TL on this site, not too sure on it's quality compared to the others but I guess whatever I lack in quality I make up in Quantity, the American Dream.

I second both comments!

Don't always have something to say, just eagerly awaiting more. But I like how the butterflies are starting to flap their wings wildly with the battle for England, the taifas and reconquista and not to mention Vinland itself.
With norse people settling parts of Castille, how is the cultural exchange going? I imagine the norse will turn Castillian in a few generations, no?

By now, shouldn't there be enticing tales of an unexplored land/island to the west of Greenland with free land for farming and fish galore?
I can't help thinking about a sort of "gold rush", but for farmland. Especially come the little ice age in the 13th century.

Thank you for the lovely update, keep it up!

The Norse should integrate into the Castillian/ Iberian population within a few generations yes, assuming nothing happens of course. Muhwahahahahaha not going to spoiler though.

And as for the Enticing tales there are plenty, but alot of people are too dirt poor to actually do anything. And the fact People in Vinland don't go to Europe as often as they did for colonists as the population is now capable of sustaining itself and the trickles from Iceland help, and like I said in an earlier update extended families of people still living in Iceland would sometimes buy a farm of someone leaving for Vinland and would be invited to Iceland.

And the Lack of Farmland due to Ice age could mean a mass Immigration from Iceland and Pretty much every single Norse country being more than wiling to ship their hungry populace out, never really thought of it but while that is spoilers it's unavoidable spoilers so you wiggled that one out of me.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

This time I'll do a three year update mostly because it took a looong time to make the last one so funnily enough this may be faster and more desirable, the past updates were around two years and this one is three so it's a small compromise.

Nearly twelve thousand views so thats good I guess. This update won't be as jam packed but not every year can be a bustling year and with the stuff I'm going to cram into the next update it would have ruined it to put some of it into here, already working on it so it should be only a few days.

Anyways I'm glad everyone enjoys it, also a side note: does anyone know if Evil is going to keep going on his Vinland TL or has his studies grown to numerous and he given up?

1052-1054

The Norse were not well known for their Metal working expertise, however in the early years of colonization many Frankish smiths were brought in as slaves. Many had gained freedom and taken apprentices who taught the more advanced and refined skill leading to much more quality Iron products, combined with the quality ore around Thorkellsborg led to some of the Finest metal products in the Norse World. The Iron mines on the Islands near Thorkellsborg began to dry up and new settlements were being built around the area exploiting new Iron sources, the mines were productive and techniques for supports in the mines were imported from Europe most likely from Italian or German slaves.

On the great Island of Vinland most of the population had lived on the coast, but small fishing settlements on lakes in the interior had sprung up that had acted as places for the Fur and Gold trade. These settlements also thrived greatly off of hunting and as a result of this had begun to mingle with the Skraeling population who was at this time well aware of Norse presence and were either Allied or subjugated. The small settlements were a great boon to the greater trade of the Great Fief as small amounts of Gold being sent allowed for minting and trade with Iceland.

Thorgil Ragnarsson was finally able to lift his men from their winter camp and set further south they had came across a few settlements but they were not as impressive as the ones they had seen earlier until they came across a large one which appeared to have wealth. Thorgil Ragnarsson had launched an attack on the Town bringing back bits of Gold, stone carvings, and pelts. Thorgil then took the food they raided and sailed further south encountering a much larger river where they sailed much further south and with their weapons had decided to raid and pillage many of the settlements they came across.

They had eventually came across the Southern sea many of the Skraelings had spoken of, much of the men wanted to head home but the current of the large river would not allow it. Thorgil Ragnarsson had decided the only way home was along the coast, encountering the Aurdreki described by other explorers and eventually making his way to Olafstad and from there returned home extremely rich.

In England, the land was an easy Target; The Normans and Norwegians were planning to attack and the Former Danish army led by Eric Halvorsson was in shambles, the small army of Harthacnut even more so. In the Spring a Scottish Army laid siege on Harthacnut's territory. King Duncan was relying on Thorfinn Sigurdsson to reinforce him; Thorfinn had other plans however, given his lineage giving him a claim to the Throne of Scotland and Duncan being a usurper had given him right to Invade Scotland with support of the men of Orkney.

The Army of Eric Halvorsson was beginning to ease when the first Norman attack from the south came, the attacks of the Norwegians followed soon after. Eric Halvorsson had died in battle and the men had retreated leaving the Normans and Norwegians to fights off the Paltry English militia. As expected the Normans and Norwegians now were having territorial disputes on the land, given how the Norwegian Army had to have some force back in Scandinavia to enforce rule in it's new territories in Denmark and Sweden so Harald decided to temporarily give the Normans what they wanted with having a chunk of England to himself.

Harthacnut had managed to beat the Scottish back to Scotland after they heard of the Orknyean invasion, he had remained in his territory out of fear of The Norwegians attacking of which were actually exhausted. Harthacnut was safe for the moment.

The Scots did not take kindly to a half Norse laying claim to the Throne but with no stationed army was swept up easily, he however took advice from the old King Canute who used every opportunity to appear Scottish in customs, fashion, and demeanor; and after a short time it began to pay off with people recognizing his Scottish descent. When Duncan had returned he found around thirty percent of the court had turned to Thorfinn's side and he had most of the country under control using the Scottish tactics of using their mountainous land against them. It is even a theory that he had enlisted native Scots for use in his army as the amount of soldiers increased but there was no recorded reason why and it could have perhaps been reinforcement from Orkney.

King Duncan was wounded in battle and forced to flee to the Holy Roman Empire, but not after destroying nearly five hundred enemy troops. Thorfinn who was now aged, had founded a new Dynasty in the Scottish monarchy, it is argued that he reestablished the dynasty of king Malcolm but it is debatable to this day. He had in acted some Major reforms which gave many Scottish nobles more power which gained him support and was firmly in place and was Crowned King of Scotland.

These years were not very active in the Nyrfold, Bjarny Leifsson was growing older and the competition between his two sons was growing. The next few years would be bloody on both sides of the Atlantic and out of them New powers would emerge.

 

[Some Bloke]

So what happens to Macbeth?

 

[Uff Da the optimist]

What an update!
Waiting for when the vikings go down to Meso-America and bite over more than they can chew. Being "bloodeagled" surely sucks, but can it compare to having your beating heart cut out on the top of a pyramid whilst still alive?
I think not!

Thorgil Ragnarsson seems to have luck in his plundering of cities along the Mississippi(correct?). If the natives know the land etc, wouldn't the vikings get beaten eventually?

Thank you for this lovely christmas present. On this side of the Atlantic, in my corner of Europe, we open our presents on the 24th, and I thank you for yours!

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

So what happens to Macbeth?

He's around but was butterflied into not becoming king, but what the future holds could bring him back perhaps.


But in all seriousness Scottish history from this era is screwy so we don't even know the exact correct dates of things for the most part so that makes making a TL with it kinda hard.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

What an update!
Waiting for when the vikings go down to Meso-America and bite over more than they can chew. Being "bloodeagled" surely sucks, but can it compare to having your beating heart cut out on the top of a pyramid whilst still alive?
I think not!

Thorgil Ragnarsson seems to have luck in his plundering of cities along the Mississippi(correct?). If the natives know the land etc, wouldn't the vikings get beaten eventually?

Thank you for this lovely christmas present. On this side of the Atlantic, in my corner of Europe, we open our presents on the 24th, and I thank you for yours!

Thanks,

But the vikings taking a peek at the Yucatan was set up to be something that doesn't happen everyday, for the moment Vikings won't be able to do much down there but in fourty or fifty years who knows. Also the heart cutting out thing was Aztec not sure if the Maya did it as well, I know the aztecs have another three hundred years before they actually come into existence.

And I wouldn't call the settlements around the Mississippi "cities" but they would be more like very large towns, but the reason for the success was the Natives didn't see it coming and just saw strange men killing people willy nilly and stealing what was thought of as valuable to them which wasn't too much other than the food they had, after all the Norse could care less about pottery when it means travelling hundreds of miles home. If they continue at it they might get beaten but in short element of surprise.

I didn't even really think of this as a Christmas present but whatever I guess then, I thought it was a wee bit short but if people like it then okay.

 

[altwere]

The cardiacectomies were an Aztec thing. The gods needed to be fed to keep this world intact.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

I feel as if I go to in-depth with the events in Europe and not focusing on Vinland as much, tell me if I should go more in depth with Europe (which would probably cause hair tearing out but still doable) or I should just summary up Europe with some details regarding Norse countries now and again?
Also not as big as I originally thought (also some real life things going on so that;s a factor) it was going to be but very important details and buildup is going on.

1056-1059

In Nawahlid the city was starting to resemble a city like that in Northern Europe, there were no finely cut stone buildings but it looked like the cities of Scandinavia and the Rus where the majority of houses were small and plain but the more important houses were built to look magnificent by Norse standards. The production of Lime was an important part of living in this Area on the Great Fief and was used very extensively as it was a very wet region and the effort to maintain wooden houses was much harder to the many people who immigrated from Islands who used stone and peat housing such as in Iceland and Shetland and preferred to use the abundant Limestone in the area. It was not just Nawahlid that had done this but nearly all settlements along the River.

In Frelsiland, enormous amounts of forest was cleared and the crop yield was significantly greater given how most of the wood was burned into the soil fertilizing it further. The population exploded with the Influx of a new generation of immigrants from Europe, the first stone masons that were slaves from Gaul had built some structures there but were limited due to the lack of stone quarries and the Island not being a good source for quality stone, some of the Masons had eventually made their way to Saeturland where they were slightly more successful.

In Scotland, Thorfinn Sigurdsson had consolidated his power and in small wars had taken the Isles of Mann and the others surrounding Scotland. He had ambitions to take Ireland and England and was gaining support in Scotland, the Men of the Shetlands and Faroe were also afraid of invasion but he did not have a Casus Belli to do so.

On the Bjarnystad Islands, the carrying capacity of the Islands were beginning to stretch and Bjarny Leifsson had convinced many of the residents to immigrate to other places such as Saeturland, Frelsiland, Hnetaland, even to small settlements in Grunnland and Thorskurland.

Gudbrand Bjarnysson had led the establishment of several settlements and was competant in many things, but he was reportedly not well in settling disputes and in modern times is theorized on his supposed behavior that he may have had a form of Autism due to his social misunderstandings but nothing is proven. His brother Birger however was fair at disputes but was poor with leading relations with Skraelings and often sparked conflicts.

In 1058 Bjarny Leifsson had caught a sickness and was on deaths door, his last request was to have his two sons co-rule and to swear an oath not to depose or divide territory among each other. They took the oath and had on Bjarny Leifssons request, establish their hold on the Allthing further. Bjarny Leifsson had died a month after, his death led many minor chieftains to revolt and declare themselves independent. For an entire year and a half the Army was sent to Crush all the rebellions, when the well equipped army came to their door some rebels fled into the wilderness and all records of them ceased, presumably either killed by Skraelings or married into Skraeling tribes. After the Final rebellions were squashed, the two brothers had decided to give the name of the Land under their dominion an official title: Leifrvalde, as a reference to their Grandfather the original founder of the Vinland colonies.

In the Northern Hemisphere of the Atlantic a storm had brewed that had killed thousands of livestock and devastated the Northern Isles. Greenland was nearly entirely abandoned after it were it not for the low population being able to survive completely off of hunting and small imports, Faroe and Shetland lost much, and Iceland was sent into extreme famine, the new co-rulers of Leifrvalde had decided this could be a chance to legitimatize themselves to Europe by providing supplies and Aid to the battered Iceland. Gudbrand Bjarnysson had sent Barrels of grain to the people while Birger had sent salted venison and dried beef. This had nearly taken out half of the Allthing of Leifrvalde's treasury, albeit the hardly used it as most things needed would be done by the Paramount Chief(s)'s own slaves, farms, ect. The people of Iceland had grown to respect the two Chieftains, but their aid was not enough to secure the people in Iceland and many were forced to come back to Leifrvalde with the ships sent with aid.

In England the Normans had been crushing any signs of discontent in the English, the Norwegians did the same. The Normans had sent a small fleet to capture the Isle of Mann and another fleet to attack the Scots, the army in Mann was able to hold off the Normans in the Northern half of the Island but the southern half was taken and the Normans built their signature Motte and Bailey forts. The Norse were not skilled at attacking forts and the sheer number of the new forts being built had meant the Normans were firmly planted on the Island. The army in Scotland was able to defeat the Normans entirely and sent them retreating, Thorfinn Sigurdsson had then sent small fleets to England fighting many Norman units along the northwest coast before and sending half of the fleets to aid the forces on Mann. The Mann forces were only able to defeat the forts by starving them out but with the Larger Norman forces forcing them to be a quick mobile army had made waiting them out difficult and tried to assault the walls of the forts with mostly failures. However with the arrival of Thorfinn Sigurdsson they were able to beat the Norman armies and starve the forts out and reclaim the Island. The defeat in the attempt to take Mann had humiliated William I. The Scots were not able to attack Norman territory because of the need to defend against the forces of Harald Hardrada.

In Elgurland, the exploitation of gold was not very large on the Elgur river; however on it's tributaries and other rivers in the region gold was heavily collected. Elgurland was not very warm compared to the other lands in Leifrvalde but it was very flat and the amount of livestock that could be raised was enormous. They had taken advantage of this along with the rich hunting and fishing to start small stations along many rivers to exploit the gold and Furs in the land. Immigration to Elgurland was little other than temporary colonists who came to exploit some gold them leave for other lands, but the population slowly increased with the birthing of children who usually stayed in the land.

On Bear Island (OTL Anticosti) the population was small and didn't farm in the slightest, resorting to fishing and hunting as their means of food as well as trading the furs they gained through hunting for grain. The Island was an ideal place for naval ports and repair and was a central trade area for the trade between all the territories. Of course it did not have a large permanent population but was frequented on a daily basis by tradesmen.

In Hnetaland a new settlement was founded, at a great inlet Ketilfjord was founded (OTL Halifax). The chieftain Ketil (father's name was lost to history), was a wealthy landowner in Iceland but after the winters had decimated his wealth he had used what he had left to start a colony in Liefrvalde. The colony was based mainly off of the lifestyle one would expect in Iceland but with wooden houses and farming of wheat but mainly sheep, goat, and fish were the main sources of labor but a fair amount of meat was brought in by Hunting and trade with the Skraelings had thrived.

 

[JErosion]

I think a few updates of the in and out occurring in mainland Europe is fair, but the real meat and potatoes of this TL is whats going on in Vinland

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Alright, I'm thinking about Restarting this TL like Evil did with his. If people are wondering why new updates aren't coming out is because Keyboard is acting up and makes it hard to type, but anyways I may "restart" the TL with a New Thread but that might not mean I won't update this one every once in a while. That's just an Idea and I'm still on the fence about the idea of restarting and people's opinions will probably make the final judgement

I think a few updates of the in and out occurring in mainland Europe is fair, but the real meat and potatoes of this TL is whats going on in Vinland

Okay, but what I was asking was should I tone down the conflict in Europe or should I keep it there? The reason I was one the fence about it was because things in Leifrvalde are pretty uneventful and I feel that Europe is what's giving it the Juice at This point (I may have a surprise in Vinland awaiting that will spice things up).

 

[Some Bloke]

So the Norman conquest comes early? I wonder if any English Exiles make it to Vinland.