Vinland, the Land of Wealth and Ambition

[President Benedict Arnold]

I'm so sorry to hear the news about your house. I hope it all turns out as best as it can.

I just started following this timeline recently. It took a while to read through it all and I think its great.

I like the idea of a more Christianized and democratic society forming out of the Norse in North America when compared to what most timelines go far. I think there are many key distinctions between what you are doing here and what others like to do that make this timeline really stand out.

I wonder if the aqueducts that are being revived in Spain will be spread to the Azores and then to the islands east of Florida and maybe to settlements across Appalachia. I think it'd a few independent cities emerging there would give the region a much more distinct political character from the Allthing dominated north and could cause some contention later on.

I also hope that at least some of the oppressed groups living along the Atlantic coast (Anglo-Saxons, Muslim Arabs, and Berbers being the most prominent) flee to the near mythological lands on the other side of the ocean. They don't have to be powerful or even remain independent of the Norse, just adding a little variety to the culture and character of the continent would be interesting (although a successful Muslim city-state far to the south of the Allthing, maybe even in South America would be quite an interesting development).

With the mix of massive stone structures, the potential inclusion of aqueducts, and the near obsession with conquest, expansion, and assimilation, I think the Norsemen in North America are well on there way to creating a Roman Empire-like spreader of technology and infrastructure (with other similarities including a republican assembly with aristocratic elements, a focus on military might, a distrust of kings, and being the most powerful civilization in what can be viewed as their world). I really do hope the Skraelings continue to be assimilated into Norse society, and that many more maintain their own identities but gain Norse technologies.

I'd love it if hundreds of years from now, Europe discovers a continent of mixed race Norse-Skraeling people who control massive cities of stone with sprawling empires. There is plenty of time for a Roman-like state to rise and fall before Europe arrives. I really wonder how that will go, seeing as how North America will probably be cut off from Europe by the Little Ice Age before guns and cannons begin to spread. I could see a continent of people living much like those at the pinnacle of the Classical Era suddenly being interrupted by expansionist Europeans with guns and ships that are smaller, but better equipped to cross the ocean.

I really hope that there will too many people immune to most European diseases for the Europeans to carve up and recreate the Americas like they did IOTL. You said that this timeline is going to go up to the late 1800s and, with less than two centuries having passed so far, I am really excited to see where it is going, wherever it is going.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Sorry about not being able to update, recent events have made doing so hard.

I'm so sorry to hear the news about your house. I hope it all turns out as best as it can.

Yep, I just got a new house and everything should be fine.

I like the idea of a more Christianized and democratic society forming out of the Norse in North America when compared to what most timelines go far. I think there are many key distinctions between what you are doing here and what others like to do that make this timeline really stand out.

I know right? Nearly every Vinland Tl on this site has been a Norse Paganism wank. The Spread of Christianity is pretty much unstoppable.

I also was the first to include the use of maple syrup/sugar, interaction with the Mississippi mound builder civilization/ Mayan civilization, improvements of ship technology, coinage, and how Norse would react to Alligators.

Honestly I started this thinking I would only make a few updates and that it would inspire people to make their own Vinland Tls (thats why when it started it didn't seem all that good, honestly I would mind rewriting the first parts of the TL at all), but aside from one case that was largely unsuccessful so I decided to continue it to see how far I could go into the future.

But yeah, I try and keep my stuff unique.

I wonder if the aqueducts that are being revived in Spain will be spread to the Azores and then to the islands east of Florida and maybe to settlements across Appalachia. I think it'd a few independent cities emerging there would give the region a much more distinct political character from the Allthing dominated north and could cause some contention later on.

Aqueducts may be used but in most places like the Azores/Heitteyjar and North America I think they would be largely unnecessary. Maybe if the Norse Expand into dry areas and heavily populate them then maybe.

I also hope that at least some of the oppressed groups living along the Atlantic coast (Anglo-Saxons, Muslim Arabs, and Berbers being the most prominent) flee to the near mythological lands on the other side of the ocean. They don't have to be powerful or even remain independent of the Norse, just adding a little variety to the culture and character of the continent would be interesting (although a successful Muslim city-state far to the south of the Allthing, maybe even in South America would be quite an interesting development).

I can't see many of them arriving in large quantities, as for the Muslim Arabs and Berbers they could just go south along the Atlantic coast of Africa (or be refugees putting pressure of the Islamic governments in North Africa which has been the Iberian Empire's strategy for a while). As for the Anglo-Saxons a whole lot of them were wiped out, however now that Britain is divided there are some warlords who don't really mind them as much.

And it would probably be easier to settle in somewhere like the Rus or in the less cultivated parts of some other country, at this point in time there is still plenty of land in Europe not cultivated.

With the mix of massive stone structures, the potential inclusion of aqueducts, and the near obsession with conquest, expansion, and assimilation, I think the Norsemen in North America are well on there way to creating a Roman Empire-like spreader of technology and infrastructure (with other similarities including a republican assembly with aristocratic elements, a focus on military might, a distrust of kings, and being the most powerful civilization in what can be viewed as their world). I really do hope the Skraelings continue to be assimilated into Norse society, and that many more maintain their own identities but gain Norse technologies.

Well the Norse are not very eager to give skraelings their technology unless they bend the knee (which a WHOLE lot of them already do). They slowly get assimilated until they are indistinguishable from a Norse or Gael.

I'd love it if hundreds of years from now, Europe discovers a continent of mixed race Norse-Skraeling people who control massive cities of stone with sprawling empires. There is plenty of time for a Roman-like state to rise and fall before Europe arrives. I really wonder how that will go, seeing as how North America will probably be cut off from Europe by the Little Ice Age before guns and cannons begin to spread. I could see a continent of people living much like those at the pinnacle of the Classical Era suddenly being interrupted by expansionist Europeans with guns and ships that are smaller, but better equipped to cross the ocean.

Discover? They already know plenty about North America (albeit they probably don't care about it much and just write it off as unimportant), Yes they may be cut off from Europe for the most part during the little Ice age but who's to say that it will even happen, Making lime does create ALOT of fire and black smoke and as mentioned before in the TL the Norse are fully capable of doing harm to the environment. Although it probably won't be enough to stop an Ice age.

Although the Norse are able to cross the Atlantic but just barely, however the Azores do help a lot with that though and Ship technology can change to suit the needs of civilizations yes so it should not be impossible for the Norse to discover how to sail the open seas for long periods of time.

Cannons and guns didn't really make that much of a difference during the Spanish invasion of Mexico so I don't think it will make all that much of a difference. Also the Europeans would lose most of their reasons for colonizing the New World: Want fur? The Norse can sell it for a reasonable price. Want to Gold? The Norse have probably looted all the Natives gold supply but are willing to buy things from you with gold. Want a route to Asia? Don't bother, the Norse have been trying to circumnavigate the two continents for centuries, you're better off going around Africa.

I really hope that there will too many people immune to most European diseases for the Europeans to carve up and recreate the Americas like they did IOTL. You said that this timeline is going to go up to the late 1800s and, with less than two centuries having passed so far, I am really excited to see where it is going, wherever it is going.

Provided that the natives breed with Europeans they should gain resistance, however the ones that don't are going to be in trouble.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Welp I think the update I did before was written better but its essentially the same story.

1162-1165

In Rome, a new pope was to be elected after the previous one had passed on in his sleep. Pope Gregory the fourth had gotten his position through lies, bribes, threats, and blackmail. He had been wishing to expand the church's power and influence. In Europe proper the papacy had owned a quarter of all agricultural land and enjoyed wealth and influence over the entire western half of the continent, in Iberia and Iberian Africa however the church had less than a percent of the agricultural land and Papal influence was very low. When Gregory had decided to inquire about getting some of the unused land in the hands of he church Emperor Olaf Ragnarsson/ Charles I, but in his response letter he had proclaimed that they were needed to grant men who fought 'for the sake of all Christendom' land to live and prosper as well as produce the next generation of men to fight for Christ.

Gregory had taken this as an insult and a complete disregard of his authority, but given the general praise that the Iberians had gained through their largely successful reconquest as well as their enormous political influence they were for all intents and purposes untouchable by anyone within the Church.
However, when Olaf Ragnarsson's youngest son Ferdinand had been in Byzantium he had converted to the Eastern Orthodox Church. Gregory had exploited this to make the Papacy suspicious of the Iberian Royal Family even when there was no evidence any of the others had anything to do with the Orthodox church. This had seriously soured relations with the Papacy with many looking at the good relations between Iberia and Byzantium as a sign of the Iberians moving away from the Papal Authority.

On the Isle of Vinland, the many towns and settlements along the interior had been isolated for the most part from the rest of the Western Norse world given that trade and communication was primarily vessel based. From these regions came a man named Ivar Thorkellsson who had gotten wealthy by producing crossbows and selling them to the locals as a reliable means to hunt Bears and other beasts that simple bows proved ineffective against. He had ambitions to open up trade into the various interior settlements, however given the dense forests it was very hard and one had to limit the wares they would sell to what they could carry on their backs. However when Ivar had been trading in Thorkellsborg he had realized the importance of well built roads and how essential the Brick and Cement roads were to getting Iron and Grain from Miles away to the city were. However when the roads were built closer to the mines were there was uneven ground some of them were prone to sinking or getting damaged from erosion and the such.

Ivar had talked with many of the Lime Workers and Brick masons within the city and had devised a new form of road that could be built over a long distance; However, these roads required much brick and lime as well as large amounts of labor and capital. Ivar had went to many wealthy chiefs and such to gain a loan so that he could create an experimental road that would only be about twelve kilometers long. Eventually Ivar had gotten a loan and began building a road between some of the towns along the coast into the interior. It was a huge success and he had built more roads connecting many of the towns of the Interior. After he had raised his own personal wealth to a substantial amount he had started plans to build a road from Leifsbudir all the way to Thorkellsborg. Ivar then sought the aid of the Allthing; specifically the chief of public works who had taken in interest in Ivar's scheme but had been unsure, trade had been a primarily done via ship and the only case roads would be useful is for portage points and linking inland communities, Ivar however made the argument that a new way for the common man not wealthy enough to get his wares on a ship could transport them a ways away easily which would add competition and lower prices on goods.

The Allthing had discussed this in a meeting, it was argued that Leifrvalde should remain a Sea based nation that relied on naval trade and communications; Others argued that a large system of roads would lower the price of most goods and allow for better settlement and trade Inland. Finally it was decided that they would give Ivar the labor and materials to build roads all along the Isle of Vinland linking Thorkellsborg to Karlsfjord and Leifsbudir. After years of work Ivar had completed part the road system that allowed for easy travel between the three main cities of Vinland. The project had taken up more money than the Allthing had expected and they were loath to spend more money on the project; while not totally completed it had fulfilled its goal of linking many of the interior settlements and linking Leifsbudir and Thorkellsborg.

In Scandinavia, the son of Karl Bjarnysson: Erik Karlsson had died of a fever leaving the eastern half of the Scandinavian empire unprepared for the streams of rebellions that followed. Karl had not been able to react fast enough and once his Armies had arrived there simply wasn't enough men to put down all the rebellions nor enough funds to support such a massive endeavor. After three years of conflict Karl Bjarnysson died of a cardiac arrest; the main Kingdoms that came out of this war was the Kingdom of Great Wendland Which had taken all of the former Scandinavian possessions on the southern coast of the Baltic sea, another kingdom to arise was the Kingdom of Finland which had been envisioned for years, then the Kingdom of Norway that included nearly all of Sweden, and finally the paltry Kingdom of Denmark. This had largely been beneficial to the Rus as more smaller nations with little influence wanting to get rich of the eastern trade shifting large amounts of influence to the Rus within the Baltic.

Colonization southwards had been a very hard endeavor as large numbers of Skraelings had made going problematic, however around this time a strain of influenza had rocked the Leifrvalde killing two percent of it's entire population; It was even more of a tragedy to many of the Skraeling populations that had gotten into trade relations with the Norse. The Norse had established Large trade routes all around Grunnland and Thorskurland where Thorkellsborg Iron, Leifsbudir cloth, Frelsiland Ale, or Saeturland copper had been traded extensively; allowing an easy path for disease to spread all the way down to Aurland along the coasts and all the way to the Inland to the far west end of the great lakes then down along the various rivers and city states down to the sea. The effects of it were most notable in the Skraeling populations under Norse rule as well as in Grunnland and Thorksurland which only small outposts along the coasts had marked any Norse presence. However now the threat of large numbers of Skraelings were starting to lower, and now many of the upstart colonies were starting to grow massively, while the coastal soil was very sandy in Thorskurland and hard to grow crops it was good for grazing animals as well as paving the way for more inland colonies in the future.

Getting to the south of Hnetaland however was not an easy feat, one could pass through the straight near Olafstad but that would require a circumnavigation of all Hnetaland. However there had been several points where portage over an isthmus in Hnealand could allow faster travel around the peninsula as well as sailing south to Grunnland and Thorskurland. However, land cannot be colonized without any colonists; it had been a long standing act to gain settlers from the Frigid Islands of Iceland, Faroe, and Shetland. However gaining further colonists from them was near to impossible after tales of plague in the Land had spread with many docks refusing to allow Leifrish to stay longer than necessary to repair their ships and resupply or outright not allowing them to dock at all. The Allthing had decided to take a risk that could potentially profit them immensely, the new King of Norway had been on the verge of ruin given the amount of famine within his country due to so many men fighting when they should have been in the fields; when an emissary came offering an amount of gold in exchange for three thousand settlers, the same offer was given to the King of Denmark. A third of the settlers were used to bolster the upstart colonies in Grunnland and Thorskurland and the rest were settled all over Leifrvalde.

The rejection of Leifrish ships had been the least strong in Iceland who relied on Leifrvalde for a large amount of its trade, it was still there however with half the docks denying entry to Leifrish ships. The Leifrvalde Allthing had been offended by this immensely, and had demanded the Icelandic Allthing do something about it; The Icelandic Allthing had responded by saying that the owners of the docks were well within their rights to deny entry to any they feel necessary. While many may argue the Ethics of it there was no denying that the Leifrish had seen it as a needless precaution that had damaged the recovering economy of Leifrvalde since the large outbreak of disease.

 

[Uff Da the optimist]

Yey update!

Loving how the potential of a growing economy spurs into innovation, with the new roads and focus on infrastructure beneficial to all. Hopefully the Allthing will continue such policies and not just self-agrandizing ones.
Sad to see the Nordic Empire go, but there it is. I must say it was splendid that Norway ended up absorbing parts of Sweden instead of the other way around. I suspect this is mostly because Sweden has suffered immensely from intercine warfare, rebellions and plunder. When agriculture picks up and advances, Swedes will soon outnumber Norwegians strongly.

How far south is Grunnland and Thorskurland? I get all the names mixed up with OTL's locations.

Also, the disease part was very cool. I hope this can evolve into a huge butterfly later on, as the literal anti-virus system of North America's original peoples will be continously updated due to these strange seafaring people that arrive on their shores.

Lastly, what are the Kingdom of Finlands borders? With a united Rus I imagine they'll need to be smart about their survival, should the two nations interests diverge...

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Loving how the potential of a growing economy spurs into innovation, with the new roads and focus on infrastructure beneficial to all. Hopefully the Allthing will continue such policies and not just self-agrandizing ones.

Yes, Leifrvalde is turning from a mere piddle paddle hub of small colonies with the occasional large town and city to a much larger nation with advanced forms of politics and need for infrastructure.

Sad to see the Nordic Empire go, but there it is. I must say it was splendid that Norway ended up absorbing parts of Sweden instead of the other way around. I suspect this is mostly because Sweden has suffered immensely from intercine warfare, rebellions and plunder. When agriculture picks up and advances, Swedes will soon outnumber Norwegians strongly.

Well it's partly because of that but also because a lot of Sweden was populated with people from Norway and Denmark, during the time of the Empire the colonies in Finland and Sweden had allowed a means of blurring cultural differences to an extent.

How far south is Grunnland and Thorskurland? I get all the names mixed up with OTL's locations.

Grunnland is around the Maine/northern New England area and Thorskurland is around cape cod. Then again as I said a few updates ago, knowing exactly where lands are is kind of hard in this day and age when you have pretty much nothing to mark or identify it with. People who get lost in a storm and eventually make it back to shore could be anywhere and they might mistake it for somewhere else.

Also, the disease part was very cool

Thanks, I kinda did it already in the beginning of the Tl with the disease that killed Eric the red killing a few Natives in Vinland and Markland.

I hope this can evolve into a huge butterfly later on, as the literal anti-virus system of North America's original peoples will be continously updated due to these strange seafaring people that arrive on their shores.

To an extent. I've heard (take my word for it, am too lazy to find a source) that a Native American's immune system is more based around defense against things such as parasites and fungus, like how its near impossible for an adult (pureblood)native to get hookworms.

The only Natives could survive as a culture is if they import European genetics into them or got 21st century vaccines which at this point won't be possible for a while.

Also it only really got the Natives that had engaged in long distance continental spanning trade. So this may be bad for the Norse later meaning isolationist hostile natives may become more common than other natives.

Lastly, what are the Kingdom of Finlands borders?

Given how the borders are hard to exactly pinpoint you could say that Finland is isolated from other large Kingdoms with only tribes bordering it, a small stretch near the Rus, and the northern half of Sweden that they own borders with Norwegian controlled Sweden.

With a united Rus I imagine they'll need to be smart about their survival, should the two nations interests diverge

The Rus has bigger Fish to fry, ever since the war with the Cumans they know the Threat the tribes of the steppe pose.

Also they're engaging in a lot of trade with Finland so I don't see why they'd ruin that.

 

[President Benedict Arnold]

This is making me wonder what the Allthing would turn into.

It's lasted for quite a while in a major governmental role and they seem to be the structure with which the Nordic Americans see politics through so I doubt it's going anywhere anytime soon.

I'm glad a complex road system is developing and I'm hoping that a few other major infrastructural and societal developments are in the works (here's hoping for North American aqueducts).

Overall, great update and I'm glad you're back at one of my favorite current timelines.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

I may restart the Timeline. I mean, I just don't have as much enthusiasm about it as I once did and I don't just want to churn out uninspired bland updates that let decades go by without anything major happening. I may also just hand over the timeline to someone else who might be more enthusiastic about it then I am and I'll threadmark their posts (also check out the new Threadmarks) that or I'll go halfway and maybe let someone take over for a few updates until I can get my enthusiasm back and churn out updates like I used to. Sorry to people like President Benedict Arnold whom this is one of their favorite timelines.

I really wanted to get into the World War era with this alternate world but only a hundred and sixty two years have passed in the TL and I'm already getting tired.

I mean I still have more content then all the other Vinland TLs on this site except for maybe TsarSaucyBottom's TL and have gone into detail more than most so I suppose I win in that category.


1166-1170


In Leifrvalde, a series of Pirate raids had swept the Markland coast and even some of Vinland's coastline being raided and sacked for quick wealth. The Allthing's Navy forces were quick to intercept and around two thirds of the prpetrators were thought to be caught but a third had managed to flee to Iceland. Eventually the Allthing's forces led under Karl Jonsson had tracked them down to a fishing village on the south coast of Iceland, the port had tried to deny the Leifrish using the excuse of the outbreaks in Leifrvalde to try and keep them out. However Karl Jonsson was determined, he had simply told the people they were coming in if it meant killing them all.


The small village was found out to have been harboring the Pirates and said Pirates were hoping to take advantage of the embargo that the Icelanders had so they could steal loads of wealth. Karl Jonsson had ordered all remaining Pirates were to be impaled on long spikes and to take back with them the men of the village to Leifrvalde to stand trial to see whether or not they were innocent.


The Icelandic Allthing was furious, they had sent word to the Leifrish Allthing that the actions of Karl Jonsson were illegal and needed answering to. The Leifrish Allthing responded by stating that the fact that the Pirates were in said port as well as the fact as said port had tried to deny the Leifrish access was proof that Karl Jonsson was completely justified in his actions and that the men in charge of the village knew full well about the Pirates and could not be trusted to hold trial within Iceland given the rise in anti-Leifrish sentiment. This had resulted in Leifrvalde Icelandic relations to become even more bitter.


In the city of Corinthus under the Byzantine rule a secret meeting was held, while there were some who could not come in person and sent a representative there were still a many of important figures present. Among them were Byzantine Emperor John Komnenos the third, Iberian Emperor Olaf/Charles the first and his son Ferdinand, and many other lords of the Iberian, Byzantine, Italian, and Frankish courts as well as emissaries from the Rus and the Kingdom of Norway, and most mysteriously the one known later as Joseph of Alexandria. The meeting was held to discuss the inclusion of the varying nations and their armies into the attack on the Fatmid controlled Egypt that the Iberian and Byzantine courts had been planning together for close to three years.


It was not technically going to be a Crusade, as the Papacy under Gregory the fourth had become corrupt and lethargic more willing on building monuments then financing crusades; together with the fact that the Iberians had a growing distance between the Papacy, and many courts throughout Europe were getting wary of the Papacy as it had been slowly getting more and more corrupt as the years went on. The Byzantines which had for a long time desired to mend the schism with the Papacy but with Gregory on the throne they had no such wishes. Slowly all of Europe was beginning to distrust the festering wound of corruption and political plays of Rome.


The agreements for the attack would be as follows: the Iberians would send a force of six hundred battle hardened men and one hundred cavalry trained for desert warfare as well as a second force of one thousand men trained in siege tactics. The Byzantines would send a small force of two hundred heavy infantry who specialized in using Greek Fire within battle formations, as well as defending the Egyptian coastline from any enemy reinforcements coming by ship as well as a fleet of boats and their crews trained in river naval combat that will be able to move supplies and troops from other nations up down and along the Nile as well as stop enemy movements travelling along or going across the river. The Venetians would promise transport to the various other nations involved in the plan as well as transporting supplies and reinforce the Byzantine navy in countering naval forces under the enemy. The various Frankish courts sent in total two thousand men and six hundred cavalry, and the various Italian city states put together had agreed to employ at least three hundred and fifty mercenaries in total and hoped to send more after the initial attack. The Norwegians could not send any troops for the initial attack but promised to send a fleet in the future, the Rus too like the Norwegians could not any troops but had agreed to begin building a large fleet and aiding the Byzantines and Venetians on the Naval Front; while it had seemed to be an empty offer the Representative of Rus seemed quite enthusiastic about it, it was unknown to the people at the meeting but the representative of Rus was actually the heir to the Throne; one who would later be known as Yaroslav the Clever.


The mysterious Joseph of Alexandria was a very mysteriously shrouded figure with apparently only the Iberians and Byzantines having any prior knowledge of him. He had apparently been an Alexandrian Christian who's father had been a leader within the local Christian community, due to the Iberian's expansion into North Africa the former tolerance the Fatmids had for 'People of the Book' had been deteriorating. Going so far as to kill Joseph's father, due to being suspected of communicating with the Byzantines about an Invasion of Egypt and planning a Christian rebellion. Ironically he had done no such thing but his death had led his son Joseph into doing just what his father was accused of, Joseph could not get a definitive number but he had proposed that at least three thousand Christians in the city of Alexandria would rise in revolt.


The Invasion would take place on the twenty sixth day of April, the initial target would be none other than the massive port city of Alexandria. The amount of Christians that rebelled was surprisingly around the exact same number Joseph of Alexandria had predicted. With fighting on the inside enough to keep the cities defenders occupied the city walls and naval defenses were taken much more easily than expected. The allied forces then decided to force all non-christians that were the elderly, women and children within the city out with only the clothes on their backs, the Heathen men were not so lucky. It was decided because women and children would only be extra mouths to feed whereas men could fill the ranks of the military. Joseph of Alexandria had contacts all over northern Egypt, with it he was able to start several minor rebellions all across northwestern Egypt in areas where Christian populations were high. Many Christian families had migrated into the walls of Alexandria for protection at this time, as well as to repopulate the city.


A Large Fatmid army who was just across the delta had begun to march on Alexandria, however they had to deposit portions of its army along the other coastal cities to withstand any other attacks. The army had to retreat to the city of Sais because of defeats at the hands of Christian rebels alone, at the end of the year the Allied Christian forces had taken a large portion of the area in and around Alexandria.


It had been nearly forty years since the colony of Ulfvik was founded at the mouth of a large river(Mackenzie) pouring into the Northern seas of Helluland. Many explorations up the river and it's tributaries, some gold had even been discovered which had prompted many to stay. More expeditions into the "West Sea" had occured but many did not wish to stray too far from Ulfvik and would have to return home before the Northern seas froze. However around this time it is said that Harald Bjornsson the Grandson of one of the Original explorers who was present at the founding of Ulfvik had a dream of a sprawling sea that went as far south as one could imagine. This is most likely legend as he probably believed that the Western sea hooked up with the Atlantic somewhere to the south. He had decided to to gather three ships and forty men and set sail.


It is unknown exactly how far they went but the Sagas did describe the following: 'Harald and his men sailed south for many a days with the coast to their left. They came upon a bend that led to a chain of many Islands, one of which Harald had wintered on while living with the natives. He had left one ship on the Island as well as some of the crew who had wished to stay and ventured forth with ambition and courage in his Heart.'


Harald then came across a 'Land of strange Pines.' This would be the first time in History a Leifrish or even European had stepped foot on the continent of Asia going west from Europe. The Saga's say he followed the coast northward and then came to the conclusion that it would be faster to get home by following the Land of strange Pines which he named Haethfurland North and then going directly west. He then went back home to Ulfvik and next spring he brought supplies, tools, livestock, and settlers and headed to the Island where one of the ships was left at and named the site Haraldsvik. One interesting detail was that around this time was when the Highland cattle was being introduced to Leifrvalde and it's cold resistance was almost as strong as those of Reindeer as well as being considered having superior milk and meat compared to the typical small lightweight cattle the Norse had preferred also having the ability to defend itself against predators like Wolves and even Bears.


Harald however was still not satisfied and desired to explore even further; However there were now two seperate directions to explore. He had decided that he would travel south along the west coast of Leifria[1] and his son Olaf Haraldsson would travel west along the coast of Asia.


Olaf had left first, eager to establish his own fame outside of his father. He had elected to follow the coast. After many days of travel he came across something that disturbed many of the crew, there had been Skraelings that had somewhat a knowledge of Iron working. After spending the winter in one of the Skraeling villages Olaf had learned a little bit of their language and them some of his. He had learned there was an advanced people to the south only a weeks sail or so, when spring was over he had taken his ship and sailed south as fast as possible.


When he came across what he called the 'Kingdom of Gorjoland' (Norsinization of it's native title of the Kingdom of Goryeo, In Norse nations the J sounds like a Y in case people didn't notice) and the name of the people the Norse would use would be then on the 'Gorjothjod.'


He had came across a Village in Goryeo where they could not communicate but was able to motion peaceful intentions. They had used a currency which was of note to the Norse at the time. Olaf had decided that he had gone far enough and decided it was time to go home to Haraldsvik and was planning on traveling back to Gorjoland and lands possibly further south. His father was quite embarrassed because he did not find anything of note and had caught a fever and had to turn back early.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Thoughts on how I should conduct the future of the TL?

 

[President Benedict Arnold]

Thoughts on how I should conduct the future of the TL?

As you know, I love this timeline and judging by the mass of likes, even after a hiatus that was over three months long, I think plenty of others do to.

I think making it somewhat collaborative with you approving any material posted would be great, with you jumping in with your own posts if/when you're inspired. You can make sure it all makes sense with what you had in mind while also keeping to a similar format. I've considered doing the same with my Tale of Two Congresses timeline because I either don't have time or don't feel into it.

I've always been so interested in the Norsemen living in the mid-Atlantic and have sort of wanted a big post focusing just on them.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

I think making it somewhat collaborative with you approving any material posted would be great

Yep. I suppose if anyone here wanted to they could PM me parts of an Update if they want and I'll give them credit.

I'm thinking maybe they could post a segment of a subject like how I do with certain regions or topics and I can compile the lot of them.

Also I originally made this TL with partially the intention of inspiring others to make their own as I thought it wasn't a very touched upon subject and you could go any way you wanted with it, and while there has been one I haven't seen any others which is kinda sad.

But seriously Vinland is an easy 'first TL' as you don't have to study much and so much is left up to interpretation that you could do anything you want with it and only the most implausible things can get criticism.

 

[Shevek23]

.....Also I originally made this TL with partially the intention of inspiring others to make their own as I thought it wasn't a very touched upon subject and you could go any way you wanted with it, and while there has been one I haven't seen any others which is kinda sad.

But seriously Vinland is an easy 'first TL' as you don't have to study much and so much is left up to interpretation that you could do anything you want with it and only the most implausible things can get criticism.

Um, wuut?

I suppose the site culture may have changed, perhaps due to moderators frowning on excessive and mean-spirited hectoring, or for some other reason, but when I was pretty new here around 6-7 years ago, there were lots of Vinland threads getting started, only to have some members pounce on them with all sorts of cross-examinations and curmudgeonly exclamations about how people should use the bloody search function. (The Search Function was pretty dysfunctional in my experience in those days).

So I think it is kind of humorous that you are selling yourself short for swimming in what you think of as the shallow end, when actually this end of the pool was until quite recently inhabited by pirañas!

I think you've done pretty well across the board, though IIRC there are elements that bother me. Then again I might be mixing your TL up with a couple others you did in fact inspire.

Perhaps some of those old hecklers might set me straight on this, but I believe you are the first to note the potential importance of the maple sugar trade for the western settlements.

I don't know how you'd handle those old school naysayers saying nay, but I think your approach has been one of the more solid ones, all the better for you that you have not had to face those dudes, who apparently so scorched the Vinlandic earth that when you came along it looked like virgin forest!

 

[altwere]

Shevek is right. We had one member who seemed rabidaly anti Vinland

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Um, wuut?

I suppose the site culture may have changed, perhaps due to moderators frowning on excessive and mean-spirited hectoring, or for some other reason, but when I was pretty new here around 6-7 years ago, there were lots of Vinland threads getting started, only to have some members pounce on them with all sorts of cross-examinations and curmudgeonly exclamations about how people should use the bloody search function. (The Search Function was pretty dysfunctional in my experience in those days).

So I think it is kind of humorous that you are selling yourself short for swimming in what you think of as the shallow end, when actually this end of the pool was until quite recently inhabited by pirañas!

I think you've done pretty well across the board, though IIRC there are elements that bother me. Then again I might be mixing your TL up with a couple others you did in fact inspire.

Perhaps some of those old hecklers might set me straight on this, but I believe you are the first to note the potential importance of the maple sugar trade for the western settlements.

I don't know how you'd handle those old school naysayers saying nay, but I think your approach has been one of the more solid ones, all the better for you that you have not had to face those dudes, who apparently so scorched the Vinlandic earth that when you came along it looked like virgin forest!

Yeah but I meant Vinland TLs more than discussions really. The TLs were so few that they could be counted on one hand and the amount of pages they had were likewise.

And as far as I know I only inspired one TL which I did link several times in this thread. Although Bavarian Raven did pick up his for a little bit after mine had gained traction.

And yes I was the first to do the Maple Syrup/Sugar trade as I was looking up initial French settlements into the mouth of the St. Lawrence and how they took a liking to Maple products.

I also think I handled the "why did they stay" question by keeping things in a vague historical record form as well as making it so one of the first settlements crashed their ship on rocks and being unable to get back. Also the discovery of the Grand banks and all of the fish would most certainly get anyone who'd seen it up close to want to get their family to move there.

Shevek is right. We had one member who seemed rabidaly anti Vinland

Yeah I've seen some of the old threads.

 

[altwere]

I think that you've done a great job and I have enjoyed the TL very much.

 

[Orisha91]

Thoughts on how I should conduct the future of the TL?

Love the tl.

Perhaps from here on out major events and updates that cover 25 year leaps should be considered. The Norse have a firm foundation at this point, so maybe an increased pace can allow you to do some fun things with fewer historical figures, or to see more fun ups and downs to play with or take in unexpected ways.

Perhaps some academic paper style or textbook updates could be thrown in as well. Whatever you do, i'll stay tuned.

Don't think I've ever heard about the Norse being in korea. Good stuff.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Don't think I've ever heard about the Norse being in korea. Good stuff.

Yeah but once the Medieval warm period starts to go away any contact with the Pacific is going to be near impossible through the Northern Routes and with a failed expedition many do not think that the Pacific can be reached by circumnavigating the Americas.

Though an overland route may be possible if extremely difficult.

 

[PlotVitalNPC]

You could all but reach the headwaters of the columbia river by sailing upriver through the principle river feeding Hudson Bay.
Might be semi-possible for the norse.

Edit: Wait, no, that's not the Columbia river. It's the Fraser.

 

[ATP45]

Yeah but once the Medieval warm period starts to go away any contact with the Pacific is going to be near impossible through the Northern Routes and with a failed expedition many do not think that the Pacific can be reached by circumnavigating the Americas.

Though an overland route may be possible if extremely difficult.

Good story,please continue.About Egypt - there was still Christan kingdom south with good archers on nowadays North Sudan territory.About America - there are no Aztec and Inka Empires yet,so norseman could conqer them slowly.About Africa - many Berbers was still Christian.

 

[EmperorOfTheNorthSea]

Sorry for not being able to update sooner, don't really have any good excuses though so kudos to people who have still been keeping on.

1171-1175

Markland had begun to recover from Pirate raids. Though the damage to it's population density would never fully recover with many immigrating south to new colonies in Grunnland and Thorskurland. It fell into irrelevancy but continued to be Iceland's second main supplier of wood next to Norway.

On the isle of Vinland the population was decreasing but roadwork had connected more of the settlements and increased trade immensely with the inland parts of the Isle. It was such a successful endeavor that the Allthing and the Paramount chieftains of Saeturland, Hnetaland, and Frelsiland had decided to commission Ivar Thorkellsson or one of his underlings to connect major settlements and important sites. While it was costly nearly every wealthy man and family had donated money and workers to Ivar's projects in the hope that it would make them all the more wealthier.

While his underlings did most of the work overseeing construction of roads throughout Leifrvalde he had ambitions for an even more grand road that would connect Nawahlid to Snorrisborg making it unnecessary to circumnavigate into the Helluland sea that would be frozen for most of the year allowing for easier access to the various goods found within Elgurland like Walrus and Narwhal ivory and perhaps gold.

In the roadwork taking place all over Leifrvalde, especially in Saeturland there was the need for Inns and rest points where travellers and their horses could rest. There was also need for fortified positions that the local militia could use to defend against Skraelings and organize counter-attacks. Given men in the militias were usually at the age where drinking was common it was perhaps an obvious decision by the road builders to construct large fortified buildings to serve both purposes. The Kravirki (translates literally to Inn fort) had become a staple in Leifric society and culture as it had been a place where people came to trade and to share stories,. Often small villages and even towns would be established next to frontier Kravirki; such towns usually specialized in appeasing to travelers by having shops specializing in a variety of things such as prostitution, a primitive form of gambling, fighting rings where men would fight bare-handed or spare with non-lethal wooden swords and such. Some historians have speculated that betting had taken place in the fights but there is no evidence pointing to it.

In Hnetaland, the need to burn so much lime as well as bake so much brick to pave the roads had lead to a huge increase in the localized mining of coal to be used in the local roads. While most places had used wood and peat to burn lime and bake bricks and due to the abundance of the two felt no need to use expensive imported coal but those around eastern Hnetaland knew of the benefits of coal, in such a hilly environment erosion was a major issue and localized deforestation to fuel the insatiable demand for Lime can lead to a lack of available wood very quickly.

In Saeturland the beginning of Maple Orchards had begun, they had started as simply clearing trees in an area but not cutting down the valuable and useful Sugar Maple. After the decades had gone by the only trees being Sugar Maple allowed for large tracts of land to be inhabited by just the Sugar Maple. In the far future this resulted in a distinct domesticated species of Maple to be born that had extremely high syrup/sugar yields.

In the former lands of England the warring between Dumnonia and Great Ebrauc had cost many lives, while initially Dumnonia had an alliance with the Kingdom of Ireland; due to civil war upon the death of Cecil ap Merfyn between his bickering sons and other warlords there was nothing to stop Great Ebrauc to demolish Dumnonia. Meanwhile in in Normandy; Robert Count of Normandy decided this was a perfect time to achieve what his great grandfather William could not. He landed eleven-thousand men on the Isle of Wight and proceeded to annihilate any local governing authority that did not immediately pledge loyalty. He had intended to land troops on the British mainland however when reports of armies from Great Ebrauc already converging on London Robert did not wish to risk such a defeat. However while the Ebruacs had been able to conquer Dumnonia truth was this had exhausted their treasury and the Scottish Enclaves in the North had decided it was now or never and swept into Ebrauc territory almost all the way to the site of the former Antonine wall.

King of Great Ebrauc however had done a fairly good job at making it seem as if Ebrauc was still a potent threat to the Normans and negotiated to grant Robert duke of Normandy the title Lord of Wight. Satisfied with this Robert had tried to have his son marry into the Ebrauc royal family but the King of Ebrauc did not wish so due to lack of sons and had planned for his younger brother to become his successor. Robert had probably thought of conquering further at a later date but troubles on the European mainland required his attention there.

 

[FickleCrossroad]

Yay! It's back, if only for a chapter! Could you please add updated maps sometime? It's really hard to keep up with where everything is as things evolve.