First off, thanks everyone! :D

I love that you are finally getting to the Vikings. Correct me if i am wrong, but i am pretty sure that Paris was never taken IOTL, so that has got to be a significant change. Is Heidibir(?) the town of Hedeby? The Viking storm seems to finally be making landfall :D It is pretty interesting that the raids go as far south as Hispania so early.

Loved Neo-Alexandros though it really is too bad that he got hammered there. How does this leave the situation in Constantinople? How depleted are the ranks of the Frankish knights?

Paris wasn't taken in this timeline either - as in our history the Parisians paid an enormous bribe to get the Vikings to go away. You're correct, it is Hedeby. And I don't think that it is super unrealistic for the first raids on northern Hispania to come around this time. We've not yet reached the peak of Viking raiding yet obviously, and the Vikings aren't yet confident or numerous enough to start carving out petty kingdoms.

Mansuetus was pretty doomed from the get go, tbh. I tried to make that somewhat clear. Constantinople is in the hands of Carolus, his brother, but Carolus has but a fraction of the Franks. He'll have to rely even more on the locals for support if he wants to maintain his position.

Who rules Colchis now?

A bunch of miscellaneous Alan tribesmen. Nothing terribly organized yet, as its basically just people displaced by the fall of the Rhom Shahdom and the persecutions of Asunwar.


In other news, now, with the fall of the last independent Eftal state, this timeline has pretty much officially moved past its origins as a story of the rise and fall of the Eftal. I'm not entirely sure what it will become, but it seems foreseeable that its focus will continue to expand.

One thing I'd like to continue to avoid is an overriding focus on Europe. This means me doing more research to chart out plausibly what's going on in Southeast Asia, China, and India right now even as butterflies change everything substantially. So bear with me while I keep doing that.
 
Since so many Franco-Romans just kicked the bucket, Carolus is going to have to rely on levies from the cities even more than he does now. Could cause some friction - and could give an opportunity Valerian could exploit if he promises to play ball with the cities.

Interesting religious developments in Eastern Europe. Would be interesting to see how deep Buddhist conversion goes among the Western Slavs. Certainly there would be a lot of syncretism and general making-shit-up to adapt the teachings to local beliefs. They're a long way from India, that's for sure. I'm not sure it will last in Poland... further east, harder to say.

I'm curious if Madagascar traders have started pursuing a regular route round the Cape. IIRC there was one such expedition already. If traders are going through the Heshanids to try to reach them then surely they've considered the idea. Is there any settlement at the Cape at this point? I would be tickled if this Savahila-African trade eventually resulted in Hindu Brazil. That would be an AHC for the books!

And with Armenia in revolt, could this trigger a cascade of events in the East? You've been foreshadowing something involving the Kurds for a while. Perhaps there is an ambitious Kurdish general somewhere who'd like to carve out his own domain... The Heshanids must be carefully watching Syria as the empire expends its western reserves...
 
Last edited:
Cape!
Guilds, Gurjurs, and the Srivijayan Leviathan

As the ninth century rolled on, the Gangetic plain remained crowded with rival powers, roughly incapable of breaking the stalemate they created. Alliance networks, based on mutual self-interest and similar local identities and traditions began to form, deadlocking the cities and towns of the Ganges valley. In the center of this cluster, the guild armies began to atrophy somewhat. Due to the armed nature of the early revolution, the guilds had accumulated massive ceremonial and effective power, and with the relative peace of the post-revolution era, standing armies had gradually disappeared, leaving the guilds as the sole military forces of the state in many cases.

If these cities and sangha claimed the names of ancient kingdoms, it was in many ways an illusion - these were states centered around the city. The merchants who were their lifeblood may have recognized the critical importance of the agrarian hinterlands, but they viewed them as peripheral to true prosperity - which came through manufacturing. The greater of these powers, formed the kingdoms of Magada, Vrji, Kosala, and Kanykakubja (Kannauj) became known as the Pancharajya - and regularly exchanged hostages and embassies between each other.

Military cooperation between these powers, however, was rare save in times of great emergency. When the equal-kingdom of Vanga went to war with the city of Pundranagara, an ally and tributary of the Magadan government, the others quietly supported Vanga as a counterweight to the traditional power and prestige of the Magadans. The war, lasting between 826-834, dragged on without conclusion due to this covert support. Growing frustrated, the Magadan government sought out decisive engagements such as the Battle of Jamuna River and yet in spite of these triumphs could not prevail. The warrior-guilds on both sides were acutely conscious of the necessity of preserving their manpower, and thus their privileged position in society. If a guild was ruined, the carefully constructed balance might be upset. Accordingly, both sides used great caution and finally, to the frustration of the Vanga as well as the Pundranagara, the war ended effectively in a draw.

Henceforth, the mercantile and agrarian guilds, no small portion of society, would find themselves at odds with the military guilds, which had rapidly consolidated their positions as ceremonial defenders of society with few meaningful responsibilities. Attempts by the broader ayat-councils to chip away at their entrenched power had to tread carefully. In many cases this was rectified by various sangha hiring armed Turkic, Gurjar, or Nepalese mercenaries - ostensibly to secure their defenses against foreign powers, but practically speaking to rebalance the power dynamic in such a way that the military guilds did not have a monopoly on power.

In some cases, this was entirely unnecessary.Surasena, the westernmost of the Gangetic republics, could easily match the power of many members of the Pancharajya. Controlling vital trade and manufacturing hubs such as Indraprastha and Mathura, it represented the buffer between the Aghatsaghid empire and the rest of the subcontinent. Accordingly, its guilds did not have a chance to atrophy. The Raja of Surasena, (an elected military and religious position) Saktivarma kept the guilds at a high state of readiness, and in Surasena the rural populace was drilled for military readiness as well. In 821, Saktivarma tested the borders of the overstretched Aghatsaghid Empire, striking hard into the Punjab.

In this campaign, the Gurjar general Guhasena would earn his famous reputation, defeating two Aghatsaghid armies and taking the prominent cities of Jalandhara and Sagala. In the south, a general rebellion emerged, starting with the Buddhist clergy of the region and progressing like wildfire until the city of Arorkot was taken and the local garrison was in full retreat. Preoccupied with the Armenian rebellion and subsequent campaigns of the Kurdish general HweremanMughriyani, the Padivayan of Mosil, the Aghatsaghid Shahs were on the back foot. The great Perso-Turkic state seemed on the verge of being reduced to a rump centered around Afghanistan and Persia, and they lacked the resources to fight for all of it.

However, Surasena's mighty campaign would begin to run out of momentum by 824. Clashes with rebel Sindhis had not endeared them to that portion of the population, and their Gurjar federates, including Guhasena, were becoming increasingly difficult to appease. Meanwhile, the Gandharans would fight with renewed vigor to against the Surasenas, who they saw as occupiers and conquerors no different than the Turks. After a five month siege of Taksashila, Raja Saktivarma retreated south, his army depleted.

On the rest of the subcontinent, the great powers were primarily coastal and mercantile. The eastern coast played host to two republics - Andhra andTrikalinga (Orissa) were locked in a rivalry with each other and the Tamil dynasty of the Chola, who had eclipsed their local rivals through an embracing of the guild system combined with strong land management policies echoing the reforms of the north. The western coast saw fewer great powers, but the Gurjar republic of Surastra retained prominence, as did the Kuntala dynasty in Karnataka.

Further east, the great Srivijayan Empire was effectively the sole hegemony of a vast territory stretching from the Pyu cities to the Sulu archipelago. While it had some young rivals, such as the rising Cambodian republic of Indranokura, its fleets, both military and mercantile were unmatched. The whole of overseas trade with China was forced to pass through its waters, and this along with the Empire's own vast natural resources made it the pre-eminent trade power. Their naval technology was impressive, a mixture of Indian and Austronesian designs.

Srivijayan dominion was generally light, however. Where they conquered, they left client states and tributaries, organized at the local level. However, they were responsible for the further spread and entrenchment of their Indianized culture across South Asia and even into Southern China, where the Tai people proved receptive to their influences. A major Srivijayan mission at Guangzhou maintained trade with the Qi dynasty even during the height of the Great Rebellion of Sima Zhixen.

The greatest change to Srivijaya in the ninth century was the arrival of the foreign guild communities. Effectively colonies on Srivijayan soil, the government of the great trading power for the first time faced a serious existential threat - and smoothly co-opted it. By offering official government sponsorship to the guilds, and clearly regulating them simultaneously, they allowed the guilds to work for the benefit of their metropolises while also extracting tariffs.

As middlemen between China and India's insatiable desire for each other's goods, the Srivijayan Empire was ideally poised to become fabulously wealthy, and they did. However, that wealth inherently attracted the jealousy and suspicion of rivals. So long as the Srivijayans could maintain an outward veneer of strength and prestige, their position would go unchallenged. However, like the Sakalava in Izaoraika, they were in truth merely the first among equals - surrounded by peoples who dreamed of usurping their position.

The Cape of Storms

The first settlers of Cape Watya, as it became known, were hardly its first inhabitants, but you would not have known it by their histories. The stone-age peoples, both hunters and pastoralists who the earliest settlers displaced were few in number, and a few crudely-armed warriors would not displace the marching tide of history. The struggles of the indigenous Khoikhoi went largely unrecorded, and they left scant archeological evidence. Perhaps on the Great Lakes, where the Kings of the High Country ruled, the indigenous peoples could fight against the coming tide of the Easterners, but not here.

The Izaoriaka's first colonies on the Cape were almost incidental - the stranding of several great expeditions seeking the land of gold that had so captured the popular imagination of the already dramatically overpopulated island represented the first colonies. Most of these expeditions crumbled rapidly, lacking all but the most basic knowledge of agriculture and being unaccustomed to the climate and terrain, but one survived. Well-armed mariners fell upon several indigenous Khoikhoi villages after an earlier violent encounter on the beach. They took slaves and cattle, forcing the locals to teach them how to survive while they waited for the next expedition.

By the time they again sighted the white-sailed ships in the bay, the Izaoriaka were prospering in this new land. Young men and adventurers, they had little waiting for them back home. By contrast this was a land of abundant game, and plentiful "barbarians" to be taken as slaves and wives. The expansion from this point forwards was rapid. Savahila and Izaoriaka alike streamed across the water in search of opportunity. By 860, there were many small towns - mostly hugging the coast, but a few had begun bravely trekking inland.

The organization of these first colonies was loose. Theoretically the Izaoriakan monarchy might have claimed to rule, but in truth they merely funneled any who wanted to leave onto the boats and turned the other way. As such the first settlements on Cape Watya were mostly anarchic, in contrast to the more ordered but still semiautonomous Izaoriaka colonies further north. Roughly, all Izaoriakan settlements emulated the tribal hierarchies of the homeland - members important tribes such as the Merina naturally held more precedence in overseas as well. [FONT=&quot]They would become the new ruling elite, or[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Randryan, dominating individual towns which generally were forced[/FONT] to operate with little prospect of direct support from the homeland. This above all drove these new colonies to drive into the mainland - gathering expansive territory for agriculture and settlement, quite unlike the Savahila who had little interest in settling beyond their bountiful coasts.

[New post, wooo!

I imagine this answers some of your questions, Hobelhouse. More will be revealed in the next post or the post after, particularly regarding what's going on with those dastardly Kurds.]
 
Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Srivijaya Power reaching to the Pyu, that's vast. I suppose higher trade volumes than OTL may have caused this?
South African developments are also very exciting.
 
I'm sorry, I may have awkwardly worded that. The Sulu Archipelago and the Pyu territories are the first things in either direction NOT controlled by Srivijaya.

However yes, Srivijaya is in a better position than OTL, owing to somewhat greater trade volume going both directions. However, many of the subject or tributary kingdoms in their area are also doing accordingly better - the Khmer Ganarajya of Indranokura is a particular example, and the Malay kingdom of Langasuka is another.
 
So colonization of the Cape has begun. Given the deposits of good and diamonds (according to Wikipedia the first diamond in South Africa was just found lying on the bank of the Orange River), the Itzarioka may end up wondering why they ever wanted to bother with West Africa to begin with.

In another century or two things might get mighty interesting down there... Sailors may tell tales of an upside-down land, where winter is summer, diamonds lie just waiting to be picked up, and the mountains are made of gold...

With a settlement this early, and by a people whose crop package is not really adapted well for temperate climes, is it possible we'll see some new domesticated crops come out of this? IIRC there's a moribund TL exploring an indigenous South African civilization that might give you some ideas.
 
Last edited:
Well they have sorghum and millet, and I think rice and oranges will grow in some areas. Wheat and legumes will probably take some time to spread, but I think it's a bit late to start domesticating any indigenous crops.

There are indigenous plants as well that will probably catch on:things like redbush (rooibos) tea, marula, red milkwood, and native plums and apples.

In spite of whatever goods they have, it will be difficult to sustain a large population until somebody brings more temperate crops - which they will its just a matter of time and will - and an Arab or Hawiya merchant will probably do it. For now they're surviving on a rather more pastoralist diet, especially inland.

It definitely will acquire such a reputation. However I think a lot of the resources will be rather difficult to exploit after a short while, no?
 
seven rivers
Changing of the Guard

In the aftermath of Emperor Mansuetus' eastern debacle, his brother Carolus and the surviving nobility feared for their power and position. Constantinople was safe, perhaps, but Anatolia was cut open, its Franco-Roman aristocracy dead, its borders ill-defended compared to a power that could raise perhaps a hundred thousand soldiers for an invasion of Asia Minor. Carolus was quick to seek audience with the Aghatsaghid Shah Suryagha, sending his nephew (also named Karl) to the Shah's court on bended knee to seek peace.

Aghatsaghid terms were harsh, but to the panicked Frankish nobles quite reasonable. They demanded mostly the recognition of pre-war borders and a vast sum in tribute. The Frankish Basileus bit his tongue and accepted the terms. In truth, the Aghatsaghids had every interest in striking hard into Asia Minor and putting an end to the Frankish thorn in their side, but such an expedition was impossible. The Armenian rebellion was rising in strength. While the traditional aristocracy of Armenia was weakened by the Turkic and Eftal settlers who had made the mountain country their home over the past several hundred years, the Armenian identity had endured under occupation. Defined by their Christian faith and common language, the uprising of the Armenian people carried with it what some scholars have identified as a sort of proto-nationalistic urge.

Aghatsaghid attempts to recover Armenia had a tendency to backfire horribly. Battles such as at Sarhavan (819) were effectively one-sided ambushes which crushed the Shah's prestige and the myth of Aghatsaghid power in the far west. Herat was far away, and the complicity of local powers such as the Kurds and Eftal were necessary to maintain royal authority. Unfortunately, both the Kurds and Eftal took this opportunity to join the Armenians in separate rebellions.

It was the Kurdish rebellion which proved the most devastating. In a moment, the vast revenues of Mesopotamia were ripped away from Herat and gathered instead to Mosil. HweremanMughriyani, a cavalry officer who had worked his way through the ranks of the Ifthal became the architect of the rebellion, gaining the allegiance of the local Kurdish vayan-lords. Drawing much of Syria into his fold as well, with promises of loot and victory, he almost overnight (821-826) managed to rewrite the borders of the near east. At first, the "Kurdish" rebellion depended on many other groups. Assimilation of the Assyrians in particular had been met with questionable success. However, as the rebellion gathered steam these groups found themselves marginalized or outright attacked by Eftal and Kurdish communities. Mesopotamia was fast on a path to becoming a Kurdish valley. After the battle of Ghilkart in 823, Hwereman proclaimed himself Shah of Xvarvaran[1] and Ifthalistan[2] and after three more years of inconclusive fighting the Aghatsaghids, worn down, would accept his claims. To say that Suryagha had lost his primacy was an understatement. The loss of Sindh, Mesopotamia, Syria, and Armenia all within the course of a decade was a major humiliation, and one which would prove fatal. The Shah returned to Herat in 828 a reduced and exhausted man, one whose legacy of victories against the Franks were utterly overshadowed. In 829, he visited the declining but still important city of Takasashila, where he was greeting with a general riot. The Gandharans did not forgive the lack of protection they had received from their Aghatsaghid overlords. Rather, they were deeply bitter. Tensions were exacerbated by the reaction of Suryagha's Turkic retainers, who slaughtered the aggressive crowds and turned a bad situation into an outright bloodbath.

Retreating from the city, advised by his councilors to return only after the situation had been stabilized and the ayat brought under control, Suryagha was killed by a group of rebellious soldiers whose loyalty and motivations are unclear. His son, Sebukabaya, was considered weak and easily manipulated, having suffered a fall in his early life that left his mind frail. A Prime Minister named Ughe quickly consolidated power, bringing the Shah's killers to justice (although it seems probably they were in his employ) and focusing on eliminating rivals - namely military commanders who he felt posed a threat. These purges were swift, but many did escape them. Notably,the commander of a major garrison in Persia survived and rebelled, causing no end of chaos until 832, when he was finally captured and killed. In Gandhara, the local Turkic commanders refused as one to return to Herat. Their local commander, General Akbugha sensed the way the tide was turning and gained the protection of the Purusapura Ayat. Unwilling or unable to directly confront the might of Gandhara, which undoubtedly would have rallied around Purusapura, Ughe negotiated instead, allowing Akbugha and his confederates to retain their ranks and positions.

Under Ughe, the Turkic aristocracy of Persia became more entrenched, but also more Persianized. Herat in the reign of Sebukabaya took on a distinctly Afghano-Persian culture, with the Indian influences of previous rulers being diminished as Gandhara and the rest of Hindustan slipped from the Aghatsaghid orbit. The loss of a huge western territory also spurred consolidation of what was otherwise a massively overstretched regime.

Land reform and inheritance reform were the two major legacies of Ughe's administration. As Prime Minister he limited the power of the ambitious padivayan on the frontiers, seeing them as threats to his own power. He redefined borders in many places, creating a second tier of vayan who lacked the ability to transfer their titles to their sons - raising up grandees and Ifthal officers to fill these positions. With a caste of officers loyal to Herat and owing the crown everything, he was able to prevent further ethnic revolts in Persia. Only in Gandhara was his influence limited - the Ganasangha checked him at every turn and eventually Ughe gave up fighting them, allowing the Republics to exist in a state of benign neglect.

In 833, Sebukabaya marriedNenifara, an Persian Eftal "princess" who historians reveal as being none too pleased with her ambitious father's choice in husband. In time, Nenifara would grow into a power to rival Ughe, using her unassailable station as Queen and close access to her husband to weaken Ughe's station without providing him enough justification to launch a coup, causing the paranoid prime minister no small amount of stress. In time, the Queen's faction would surpass even this fear - while she had little power in the provinces, in Herat the Queen was a power to be reckoned with, and she would outlive Ughe, who died from his heavy drinking in 841.

The Country of the Swan-Road Rivers

The Khirichan Turks and Sahu cultures were thoroughly blended by 830. Urbanization along the Dnieper and Don rivers continued apace - the growth of these urban sites was coupled with irrigation to a scale previously unseen, even before the Khirichan conquest. However, much like in the Syr Darya valley, the hinterlands of these cities were vulnerable to nomadic raiders and thus by necessity were symbiotically linked to the nomadic or seminomadic populations at their periphery. Economic growth and trade, spurred on by connections to the growing Norse Kingdom of Gardveldi, would promote an urban artisanal class that resented this symbiosis - seeing the Turks and nomadic Sahu as parasites.

However, whatever the cause of this resentment, there was little to be done. The Khirichan Khans, led by Khagan Shiqar Ishbaroglu Sevuqharslan [3] were at the height of their prestige and power. The expanded royal residency, several miles upriver from Tangrabad became known as (New) Pianjiqand, referencing the ancient Eftal capital - a site which was at this point more of a legend than anything else. Famous for its decadent pleasure gardens and stately apartments for visitors, the name "Pianjikand" became a synonym for hedonistic paganism in Europe. Later additions to the legend, such as a magical river of milk and labyrinthine caverns "measureless to man" inside which the Khagan's enemies were imprisoned are utterly unsubstantiated myths.

The Khirichan dominion stretched more roughly over Pannonia as well. In the aftermath of the Votive War and various campaigns, the Avar and Xasar Khanate finally expired, being replaced with local warlords who used the backing of the Khirichan to assert legitimacy and sponsor raids into the Balkans. Wishing to assert their power over the region, the Khirichan constructed monuments and elaborate Buddhist temples (in the distinctive Perso-Roman style of the Sahu) around the local urban centers. The Xasar cities ofBiharabad and Shahidjan became major Khirichan garrison-towns, with local Satraps answerable to the Khagan in distant Pianjiqand.

There was little shared identity between the far flung peoples of the Pannonian plain and the Turks of the lower Volga. Even with Khirichan strength maintaining the entire apparatus, autonomy and emphasis on common religion was the order of the day. While the Buddhism of the Turks, Sahu, and Pannonians all differed significantly, common rituals were mandated to attempt to tie these disparate peoples together. The Iranian dialect of the Sahu, long suffused with loanwords from a hundred different languages was propagated as a lingua franca for trade from the Black Sea to Gardaveldi, from Apaxauda to Italia.

The magnificence of Pianjiqand was a major factor in the prestige of the Khirichan, and indeed is cited by Viking explorers as a reason for many conversions to Buddhism. Seeing the beauty and magnificence of the Khirichan palace, and the vigor and martial strength of its people (especially compared to the ruined, faded glory of Latin Constantinople to the south) inspired these wanderers. Many became mercenaries in the Khirichan court as well, forming a small elite unit of horse-mounted Northmen trained as lancers and, in dire need, foot axemen.

[1] an Eftal term for Mesopotamia believed to have Sasanian origins.

[2] This one is less clear, but it seems to refer to the region roughly from Mosil to Edessa, or possibly larger - furthermore some historians[who?] have claimed that the term is an anachronism[citation needed]

[3] Commonly known in Europe as Sebouk Arslan (Beloved Lion)
 
So, we have Buddhist Varangians then? Awesome!

The Kirichians should be careful though, that these Vikings don't grow too powerful as a source of military manpower and form a faction of their own that could topple their Empire, as evidently what always seems to happen to the various Persian Empires.

With the fall of the Aghatsaghids (or at least the internal takeover by the Turks) isn't that now like the 4th different Persian Empire that's fallen since the Sassanids? :p:D
 
The Aghatsaghids were themselves a Indo-Iranianized Turkic dynasty. And they haven't fallen, there's still an Aghatsaghid Shah in Herat, ruling all of modern-day Iran and Afghanistan and much of the Turkic steppe. A Turkic Minister running the show isn't a inherently a total collapse, just a rough patch for the dynasty.

If you're counting the Eftal as Iranian, that's far and away the most enduring one. The Oadya Eftal were short-lived, but other than that I can't think of any other proper dynasty. And the Oadyan dynasty in a lot of the feudal structure and groundwork for the Aghatsaghids was laid.
 
Another great update
Yay for Norse Buddhism, for which I just can`t stop rooting.

Norse Buddhism is the best form of Buddhism. :p But seriously, I really need to read more about the actual Norse religion and culture. I have no idea how to convincingly or realistically depict Norse Buddhists. Iranian Buddhists and Turkish Buddhists we have actual examples of, even if they never overran modern day Hungary. But Norse Buddhists? I don't think that ever happened.

In other news, I just want to shamelessly plug my side project, the Epirote Alexander wherein Pyrrhos of Epiros does somewhat better and pisses off Rome a lot more.

It's perhaps not as original as a timeline on the White Huns, but I think it'll go to fun places. So check it out!
 
I know that is quite a task you have in front of yourself. Especially since Norse religion was rather varied in itself across the different regions...

Your productivity is really admirable. I´ve checked out your other timeline, and while I can`t comment so much on that time period, it´s exceedingly well-written. Well, I wouldn`t expect anything else from you... ;)
 
Norse Buddhism is the best form of Buddhism. :p But seriously, I really need to read more about the actual Norse religion and culture. I have no idea how to convincingly or realistically depict Norse Buddhists. Iranian Buddhists and Turkish Buddhists we have actual examples of, even if they never overran modern day Hungary. But Norse Buddhists? I don't think that ever happened.

In other news, I just want to shamelessly plug my side project, the Epirote Alexander wherein Pyrrhos of Epiros does somewhat better and pisses off Rome a lot more.

It's perhaps not as original as a timeline on the White Huns, but I think it'll go to fun places. So check it out!
I think any appealing Buddhist tradition in the Norse lands are going to be Skaldic in nature. I would expect the spoken poetry side to be prominent with monks having patrons keeping them whilst giving public sermons. Theology wise there could be reasonable conflict. I beleive from memory the buddhism surviving this far west has elements of or is a school of Dzogchen? If so a primordial buddha is at odds with Ymir, and the killing of Ymir by Aesir is certainly problematic. Culturally whilst the tradition is far removed it could be worth looking at Deep Ecology; an originally Scandinavian tradition which I beleive borrowed elements from Buddhist philosophy.
 
Norse Buddhism is the best form of Buddhism. :p But seriously, I really need to read more about the actual Norse religion and culture. I have no idea how to convincingly or realistically depict Norse Buddhists. Iranian Buddhists and Turkish Buddhists we have actual examples of, even if they never overran modern day Hungary. But Norse Buddhists? I don't think that ever happened.

In other news, I just want to shamelessly plug my side project, the Epirote Alexander wherein Pyrrhos of Epiros does somewhat better and pisses off Rome a lot more.

It's perhaps not as original as a timeline on the White Huns, but I think it'll go to fun places. So check it out!

Timeline with White Huns and Eastern European Buddhism is more interesting and very great idea.
Next very good update!
 
I think any appealing Buddhist tradition in the Norse lands are going to be Skaldic in nature. I would expect the spoken poetry side to be prominent with monks having patrons keeping them whilst giving public sermons. Theology wise there could be reasonable conflict. I beleive from memory the buddhism surviving this far west has elements of or is a school of Dzogchen? If so a primordial buddha is at odds with Ymir, and the killing of Ymir by Aesir is certainly problematic. Culturally whilst the tradition is far removed it could be worth looking at Deep Ecology; an originally Scandinavian tradition which I beleive borrowed elements from Buddhist philosophy.
Skaldic makes some sense, insofar as Buddhism was very often a monarch- and nobility-sponsored thing. Funnily, OTL's earliest famous skald was named Boddason ;) but let us not forget that Norse religion only became so elaborate later on, and skalds perhaps do not yet exist ITTL. To most people, it was about fertility, weather, war. Popular mythology is less elaborate than court-sponsored one... It was linked to special places, so it makes Sense that Norsemen travelling far from home would be open to new spiritual ideas.
 

Deleted member 67076

Ive not much else to say other than "Well Done", but I still wanna chime in and comment.:p
 
I think any appealing Buddhist tradition in the Norse lands are going to be Skaldic in nature. I would expect the spoken poetry side to be prominent with monks having patrons keeping them whilst giving public sermons. Theology wise there could be reasonable conflict. I beleive from memory the buddhism surviving this far west has elements of or is a school of Dzogchen? If so a primordial buddha is at odds with Ymir, and the killing of Ymir by Aesir is certainly problematic. Culturally whilst the tradition is far removed it could be worth looking at Deep Ecology; an originally Scandinavian tradition which I beleive borrowed elements from Buddhist philosophy.

Dzongchen is definitely not the main school, although I wouldn't rule out some sort of adibuddha-like concept, especially given how many Hindu and Iranian concepts have bled into western Buddhism in this timeline.

I'm not an expert on religion, hence my wariness generally to comment on it in depth, but what I can say is that Sogdian Buddhism generally doesn't have all that much in common with the Buddhist teachings of of Tibet or East Asia. There's a mixture of both Mahayana and Hinayana schools, but Mahayana has had more success, generally, as it was more able to adapt its cosmology to incorporate pre-Buddhist Iranian beliefs in various ways. The Sahu at least are perfectly willing to treat the Buddha as a more or less divine figure and a lot might be lost in translation. By contrast the Eftal monasteries and the Arab Buddhists are less likely to the Buddha as divine but rather as a teacher who is more important than the Gods.

Theology-wise any Buddhist ideas that seep into the Norse religion will probably quickly become very distorted, so much so that it might be best to not consider the Norse Buddhist, even if they're inspired by the Buddha. I'll definitely check out Deep Ecology - for the common people, on the folk side of things, not all that much will likely change.

The Norse nobility in Gardaveldi are definitely intrigued by foreign ideas, and I can see them patronizing foreign monks and in time their own local poets. The Skaldic tradition is in its infancy, and a Norse world that takes in Buddhist ideas might see a very different form of it emerge, even if it goes by the same name.
 
Red Sea
The world of the Red Sea

The reign of Basileus Alexandros Heshana (803-834) was a relatively uneventful one. As the latest scion of a long and glorious dynasty whose position was essentially unchallenged, the latest Heshanid Emperor was engaged primarily as a mediator of court intrigues. A somewhat shy man who was uncomfortable leadership, in a weaker regime he might have quickly been cast aside or made into a puppet. However, the Heshanids had ruled the Nile as their personal fief for two centuries now. They had maneuvered themselves into the same sort of grandeur as the Roman Emperors of Constantinople once enjoyed, and though they did not claim that title for themselves, they did call themselves "Equal-to-the-Apostles" and rule through a version of divine right.

Even in weakness, Alexandros Heshana was untouchable, insulated from the crass affairs of the world. While various ministers, perhaps most notably Thomas of Alexandria, would rise and fall over the course of his twenty-nine year reign, the center around which they orbited was undeniably the monarchy. However, Alexandros was not the sort of man to take advantage of the weakness of his enemies. As the Aghatsaghid Shahdom crumbled around him, he did not order an invasion of Syria, despite the urgings of his council. His reasoning was twofold - first and foremost, the Heshanid monarchy tended to be expected to command military expeditions of a certain magnitude themselves. Despite a talented officer corps and capable generals, Alexandros' presence would be expected. Secondly, the Saihists of Arabia had been gaining strength along the border - raids into Palestine were becoming commonplace.

This "new paganism" as the Alexandrine philosophical establishment was known to call it, did not pose an existential threat to the Christian Greco-Coptic civilization along the Nile. Numerous though the Saihists may have been, their religion was ethnic - it was popular within a certain cultural context, and even that context was limited, as evidenced by the number of unconverted Jews, Christians, and Buddhists living within their territory. What Saihism did however grant was a sense of community and a unifying impetus which had, over the past century brought essentially the entire population of northern Arabia under one banner. Without the ability to fight amongst themselves anymore (wars between the "believer kings" were banned under strict penalty) the Saihists turned outwards.

In the Kurds of Xvarvaran and Ifthalistan, they found a vibrant, warlike people unified by their own common language and faith. However to the west they found easier targets - Syria and Palestine. The fact that both these regions had large Arab populations was only an additional incentive. As raids intensified, they achieved broad successes. Isolated garrisons were destroyed attempting to interdict Saihist raids.

Around this time, the Saihist leader, theAmir al-Muminin Abdulilat ibn Uthman, captured the city of Bostra in 832. The capable Saihist tribal leader Umar ibn Katir struck as far as Gaza before being repulsed two years later. However, because the northern Saihists remained warlike, they began to have a sort of schism with their peaceful southern cousins. Al-Ta'if was at its core a mercantile city prosperous largely for its important position on the trade routes. Here, the impetus to raid was significantly lessened, and those who desired plunder accordingly travelled north to seek it out among the unbelievers. Those who remained accordingly were allowed to trade in unprecedented safety and security. Heshanid-garrisoned cities such as Phoinikon and Berenike never came under attack, because they were vital parts of the trade routes the Saihist priestesses had a vested interest in maintaining.

Southern Saihism never had to define itself against any competitor religions. Insulated from its main hypothetical rival Christianity, it shared south Arabia only with Judaism and Buddhism, neither of which had, in their Arabian incarnations, a strong missionary focus. With the latter faith, it even came to a rough concord - certain ideas Buddhism and Saihism often completed each other rather nicely. Religious debate and peaceful cultural exchange became the order of the day.

Further south still, the Hawiya Kingdom was entering into a golden age of power and intellectual achievement. Between the dawn of the ninth century and its midpoint, they fought a series of three wars with Aksum, each one expanding their own power and ultimately reducing the highland tribes to a cluster of feeble tributaries with garrison-towns and Hawiyan colonies. These conquests however would vastly overextend the Hawiya. As much as certain ambitious grandees and administrators might have dreamed of watering their horses in the Nile, Makuria was simply too distant and the Hawiya already at the extreme end of their logistical capacity.

Hawiya conquests were primarily motivated by a need to gain better agricultural land. An influx of migrants (or perhaps more accurately colonists) from Gujarat and Arabia had swollen their cities immensely and famine loomed. By seizing the fertile highlands, the Hawiya were able to extort tributes in foodstuffs. However, the Hawiya could not have understood the reason for their victories. Merely a century ago, Aksum had been a capable regional power in its own right, with many tributaries and the power to contest the hinterlands with the Awalastan. As with south Yemen, climate changes beyond the power of the government to reverse or withstand had led to their decline. Soil erosion led to more and more marginal cropland becoming depopulated, and the subsequent rise in power of pastoralist peoples such as the Hawiya and the Oud. In turn, this pastoralist exploitation further degraded the agricultural output of the land and created a vicious and destructive cycle.

The arrival in central Aksum of pastoralist proto-Somali colonists at the bidding of the Hawiya would spread this problem to the highlands, resulting in further agricultural collapse and in turn would necessitate further conquests of sedentary peoples. Because the coastal territory was primarily used for the production of profitable spices (with significantly smaller water requirements) by settled migrant populations, famine was a continually looming specter, and one that the Hawiya had little power to meaningfully combat. Their unsustainable lifestyle paved the seeds for the destruction of Aksumite civilization and simultaneously their own collapse.

But for now only the most far-sighted administrators could see these problems on the horizon. The spice trade had made the Hawiya elite enormously wealthy, and the Hawiya were great patrons of art and culture. Surrounding themselves with beauty, the latest Maliks of Awalastan patronized some of the greatest religious and scientific philosophers of their generation. Most of this knowledge would spread along trade routes, and accordingly not be forgotten. Advances in astronomy, algebra, and medicine lost since the Eftal Golden Age would be rediscovered and spread up the Red Sea to Alexandria and across the ocean to Savahila and Arabia.

The great tragedy was how quickly it would all come to ruin. The Hawiya themselves would not disappear - they were too powerful and their hydraulic control too firmly asserted by a complex bureaucratic hierarchy. However, famine would leave their great plantations depopulated and allow the desert to swallow much of Awalastan. Cities would shrink into fortified camps defined by a central palace, temples, and a university. Those minor ports which were not useful as entrepots would often be abandoned. This collapse would reverberate through the Red Sea - even by 850, the Heshanid economy was feeling the strain. The prices of spice, incense, and other luxuries rose as northern Savahila cities such as Tiravasi became the new center of production for many of these formerly Arab crops.

[Next post will probably go to Africa and cover the recent developments in the newly expanded and consolidated Roman Empire.]
 
Top