Yeah I was aware of the Turkish roots, but the Southern Slavs in this timeline are throughly intermixed with the Bulgars. I didn't realize only a single person popularized the name. Perhaps I should retcon that then, thanks.

Part of a single Bulgar tribe settled in Anatolia after about a century or more of the two peoples intermingling in Thrace.
 
Boris is a shorted name derived from earlier Slavic Borislav ("fighting fame"), compare with Old Polish Borzysław.

Or from the Bulgar name Bogoris, potentially. But thank you, Chrzescimir. Perhaps calling him Borislav would work better?

But on a different note:

I think "the Norse" as a whole will be at least divided between Christianity and Buddhism, with a lean to Christianity. Any Norse kingdoms established in the British Isles will likely assimilate to Christianity eventually... And I'd put good odds on Christianity spreading eventually to Scandinavia per OTL. In Russia, I think it depends on how quickly the Norse become Slavicized. Buddhism is the religion of the Khirichans, who have been busy selling Slavs into Mesopotamian slavery. I don't think it would have much appeal. But if Norse settlement is directed east (plausible if Clovis's kingdom holds together and conquests in Britain don't really pan out) we could see a Nordic *Novgorod or even *Russia with considerably more Norse identity. They might be somewhat more amenable to the religion. There's something of an organizational problem... TTL Orthodoxy has basically been butterflied away, Latin Christianity is dominant thanks to its role in liberating Christian populations in the East. Orthodoxy allowed autocephalous churches... TTL, will it be possible to run churches in deepest Russia from Rome?

I'm interested in seeing what Pannonia looks like after the Votive War. I'd love to see how a Frankish-Avar identity develops. Interesting implications for the Middle Ages with its waves of German settlement. Is Pannonia officially part of Francia, or is it composed of independent duchies? Either one I do t see lasting long, in th first case it is too far-flung to rule effectively, in the second I don't see small duchies staying disunified whenever Xasars recover again.

To be fair, the Slavs are also selling each other into Mesopotamian slavery. Any Christianity that catches on too far from the center of gravity around Latin Rome, IMO, will perhaps become at least a bit heretical in the long run. Distance will represent a significant problem here.

I don't think even the most ambitious Frank would consider Pannonia to be part of broader Francia, in the same way the Duchy of Thrace and the Kingdom of Asia aren't considered to be part of Francia.

Given that the Amizagh Berbers are far less involved in piracy than the Muslim Berbers they are probably not as destabilizing to the Western Med's economy. While long distance trade is sure to have taken a hit and I doubt that grain is coming from North Africa in anywhere near the quantities it probably was under the Mauri, grain from Sicily and southern Italy is probably still reaching Gaul in larger quantities than in OTL which would drastically slow down the advance of feudalism in the Frankish Kingdom. The Frankish state probably probably maintains a lot more of the Roman systems that the early and mid Merovingian kingdom had in OTL as opposed to the more uniquely Frankish systems that characterized later Merovingian and the Carolingian Empire. With the survival of a more Roman system, it's very possible that the Frankish Kingdom could survive in more or less the same state it was in when Clovis died.

Feudalism in the Frankish Kingdom does have a much more late-Roman character and hasn't evolved dramatically beyond that. However, the stability of the realm is still questionable. The simple nature of the kingdom is that a lot of lords have a lot of power. The various Dukes and Counts are essentially kings in their own right, even if the local aristocrats are perhaps less powerful than in OTL.
 
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Votive War Pt. 3
Kurdish civilization

The sudden emergence of the Khardi or Kurds into the Mesopotamian river valleys upended the traditional balance of power. Under the Eftal, they had been nomadic people used as auxiliaries, notable mostly for refusing to assimilate into the broader category of Eftal, where so many other indigenous nomadic peoples did. This strong identity, based along tribal lines and a long heritage that perhaps traced back to the ancient Medes, allowed those Kurds which migrated out of their traditional upland homes to retain their culture and indeed assimilate or drive out those whose lands they seized.

The Kurdish people worshiped an ethnic religion that has been called by various names through history but here will be called Yazdatism. A mixture of Buddhist and traditional pagan beliefs, there were many superficial resemblances to the Eftal faith, such as a worship of Mithra. However, Mithra in Yazdatism was a solar deity, and accompanied by a wide pantheon of Yazdata, or divinities, and angels known as Bodisav who came to earth in human form to provide divine instruction. Among historical Bodisavs could be counted teachers such as Christ, Mani, and Buddha. For the Yazdati, there was no afterlife, merely endless reincarnation until the end of the world, at which point it was unclear what might happen.

Unlike the Buddhists, the Yazdatis rejected monasticism and asceticism in favor of vibrant, jubilant celebration. They had a semblance of an organized priesthood, and as they became more urban this would grow, but in many respects the religion was merely passed down by community leaders. Comparisons to Saihism have been drawn by some historians - this was a faith of a distinct ethnic group which took in the accumulated influences of the cultures around them and mixed it with their own distinctive traditions.

The Kurdish "invasions" are a confusing subject from a historical perspective. Much doubt has been shed over the level of communal violence which took place in the early years. While certain Christian and a few surviving Mahadevist writers have characterized it as an active invasion, sponsored by the Aghatsaghids after a dispute between the Christian vayan of Mosil and the Aghatsaghid viceroyNenifara, other documents seem to claim it was a relatively peaceful migration, with outbreaks of violence mostly being sporadic attempts to drive local lords off fertile land. Either way, by the ninth century the majority of Mesopotamia was in Kurdish hands.

Within another decade, Mesun would fall in an indisputably violent series of attacks which were lightly but not too strongly condemned by the Aghatsaghid administration. Shortly thereafter, battles with the Tayy clan would see almost all of the Euphrates fall as well. The Tayy themselves would cease to exist as an independent power not long thereafter, ensuring that the Nestorian resistance to Saihism would falter in the north over time.

It seems obvious that the Aghatsaghids of Herat had little clue what they had unleashed in Mesopotamia, but they also seem to have been largely apathetic to the developments as a whole. Certainly the Aghatsaghids were military powerful, commanding large forces of Turkic and Ifthal cavalry which could have been deployed quite rapidly to quash the early Kurds. However, Mesopotamia was considered peripheral by the India-focused rulership of Tarkhsigh Arslan, who would rule until 796 before being succeeded by his young son Suryagha, whose affairs were managed by a regency council of his father's close companions. These companions largely had estates in Sindh and greater Iran, and as such were unconcerned with a few Eftal and Assyrian potentates in a devastated river valley being pushed out, or the subsequent wars against the Arabs.

Two main coalitions of the new Kurds had developed by roughly 805, one northern, one southern. The northern one was organized by Serxwevan Mughriyani, officially made Padivayan of Mosil in the same year. The southern coalition, based around Tesiphon, was less official. Its leader, Merxhas Rojdarza, based his own power structure around the traditional tribal ties of his people, allowing various friends and relations to take the lordships and legal titles of the region. It was Rojdarza who continually attacked the Tayy and the Mahadevists, ensuring his legacy through land grants to loyal followers - land grants which had to be authorized by the Aghatsaghids but invariably were in exchange for token gifts.

By 807, Suragha had reached adulthood and the mood in Herat had turned in favor of some level of intervention. Aghatsaghid garrisons were established, particularly in northern Mesopotamia and Syria, the notion being to keep a watch on the Kurds. But this was too little too late. The Kurds had already gained most of what they wanted, and if anything the Aghatsaghid garrisons merely served to prevent any reprisals by their neighbors. Henceforth the Kurds would choose to work with their nominal overlords, seeing the Aghatsaghid system as bringing welcome stability to the region.

Bandit Shahs and the Votivists Besieged

The Rhom Eftal had been on the cusp of truly considering themselves different from the Eftal of Syria or Iran when the Votive War broke out. Christianity was, by some measures, on the rise, especially after the conquest of the Alan Khaganate. Their version of Buddhism was itself willing to consider Christ some sort of western Bodhisattva, but much of that changed when the Romans and Franks launched an all out war to recover the lost east.

Kurshanam, the "Bandit Shah" was the sole inheritor of the Rhom Eftal legacy, and through force of will and personal connections he was able to rally the surviving Rhomians and loyalists. Unlike those previous Shahs, his territory was essentially confined to Amaseia and the Pontic coast, a rump state of Alan tribesmen and refugee Eftal warriors. Much of this small state's revenue came from state-sanctioned raids against the newly established Votive kingdoms, with which Kurshanam maintained a constant state of war. The Roman population of Asia was treated with the same brutality as the invaders, due to the Eftal viewing them as traitors.

However, for all his thoughtless viciousness, Kurshanam lacked the numbers to effectively turn the tide against the Votive kings. Kurshanam's raids alienated the Roman population even further, something the Franks were quick to exploit. Most of Anatolia seemed permanently lost. In 788, Kurshanam would die peacefully in his bed, despairing that the legacy of his people was gone. His successor, Maimarkh, was not any kin to him but rather another successful raider, and one with a broader view of politics. Knowing that his predecessors actions had served more to alienate that to help, Maimarkh appealed to the Aghatsaghids for aid. In 791, the local Viceroy of Syria would be dispatched with some twenty thousand soldiers, largely Eftal.

The Aghatsaghids had not been afraid to exploit the successes of the Votive war over the past decade. They had chipped away at the Kingdom of Jerusalem while it was distracted fighting the Heshanids in the south, seizing cities such as Emesa and Tripolis for their own empire while the young Emperor Alexandros Heshana tightened the noose around the remaining warlords. However, actively invading Asia Minor was another thing entirely - it represented a direct assault on the Votivists, and something that might well encourage another holy war.

If Maimarkh assumed that the Viceroy of Syria, Majar, would act to restore the Rhom Shahdom, he was terribly mistaken. Majar spent the opening years of his war destroying Aigulf's County of Cilicia, before targeting the "Duchy of Mysa" and overrunning it with similar swiftness. The King of Asia, taken off-guard, gathered his forces and marched south, fighting an inconclusive battle at Ikonion which led to a siege of the city by the Aghatsaghid army and the Franks pulling back, harassing the Aghatsaghids were capable. Maimarkh himself marched south to link up with the Aghatsaghids at Ikonion, but upon arrival he found his advice and soldiers were almost unwelcome. Majar had his own ambitions, it seemed - ambitions that Maimarkh was able to construe as neither in the favor of Shah Tarkhsigh or himself in letters sent to Herat.

Hoping for a more pliable replacement, Maimarkh launched an elaborate intrigue against his ostensible ally, ensuring Majar would be recalled Herat and subsequently executed. However, his replacement was Tarkhsigh Arslan's capable nephew, Korkuta. Maimarkh attempted a similar scheme, only to be discovered and sent home after a tense standoff in the allied camp. Ultimately, he had succeeded only in alienating his only possible ally, and Korkuta was more than willing to make peace with Asia on favorable terms so long as they agreed to respect Aghatsaghid territory.

The Kingdom of Asia would endure, in no small part because of Roman reinforcements from the Asian cities. Repeated Aghatsaghid campaigns under Korkuta brought them no territory beyond the Cilician gates, and if anything served to unify the Kingdom. King Helinand was able to retain the allegiance of his warriors, in no small part because even the lowest among them was now far wealthier than they might have dreamed of being serving Frankish kings back home. Asiana, as it became known, was one of the few of the Votive Kingdoms to endure.

Jerusalem met its rather inevitable end in 793. After the death of two of its major leaders in battle, only Majorian remained, taking the title of "Defender of the Holy Sepulcher" and leading the hopeless siege against his fellow Christians led by Alexandros Heshanid. The poor reputation of the Kingdom as traitors to the initial cause, and its rapid collapse into anarchy and eventual conquest would leave a bitter taste in the mouth of Christendom. It should be little surprise that enthusiasm for a renewed Votive war dropped rapidly.

In general, the greatest weakness of the Votive war was its unsustainability. Without a constant supply of reinforcements from the West, most of the lesser duchies simply could not hold out. A case in point is Srem, which collapsed after the death of Berthaire in 798 and was quickly reabsorbed into the Xasar-Avar Khaganate. These historical footnotes would leave little impact on their associated regions beyond devastation and a period of relative anarchy. And yet not all of these kingdoms would fall, and those that survived would change history.

The Duchy of Thrace survived the Xasar reprisals in no small part because controlling even the depopulated ruin of Constantinople was a valuable prize - a key fortification whose harbor and walls represented critical strategic assets. Sigebert of Nantes, the self-proclaimed Duke of Thrace, restored much of the damage to the city, although he was unable to help its population recover at anything but a halting pace. However, Constantinople remained the seat of the Patriarchate (albeit now subordinate to Rome) and this granted Sigebert an important source of legitimacy. Alone of the surviving Frankish leaders, he held the potent symbolism of having regained Constantinople, the city that was once perhaps the true heart of Christendom.

However, Sigebert would not be able to hold out forever. Both the Romans and Turks would make various attacks on the city in his lifetime, and though he was wily and more than capable of repulsing his attacks, his manpower was worn thin by constant raids from the Xasars and a lack of reinforcements from Francia. By 800, he was dying and still childless, and his foes circled like vultures. The latest Khirichan Khagan eyed Constantinople with increasing avarice, and the Romans would not be above making a move to seize the city of the world's desire from him. In a shocking move, Sigebert bequeathed what remained of his territory to his old rival, King Helinand, so as to keep Constantinople in Frankish hands.
 
I'm a bit surprised by how easily Mysa fell and how deep the Aghatsaghid manged to penetrate into Asia minor, but I guess it's to be expected given the forces they are capable of marshaling. I'm far less surprised by the fall of Cilicia and Jerusalem though.

I'm curious as to whether or not Helinand will himself Emperor/bribe the Patriarch of Constantinople into doing it for him to add more legitimacy to the claim. It would be easier if the Western throne was perceived as being empty/ being occupied by a woman as was the case with Irene in OTL.
 

Deleted member 67076

Consolidation and cooperation; the Christian states proceed to digest their earnings whilst their targets pushback in reaction.

Hm... the Aghatsaghids are probably going to be overextended soon. Kurds are building a power base, the steppe has been too quiet lately, conquests have slowed down, and the focus is on India. If and when a civil war comes, the empire is going to either fracture or lose the periphery.
 
Hm... the Aghatsaghids are probably going to be overextended soon. Kurds are building a power base, the steppe has been too quiet lately, conquests have slowed down, and the focus is on India. If and when a civil war comes, the empire is going to either fracture or lose the periphery.

Indeed the Aghatsaghids' Indian focus is going to spell the end of their rule in Mesopotamia and the Levant soon, especially with how much freedom the Kurds are exercising.
 
Qi
Tibet and Qi

The past fifty years of the Bod Empire are best understood as a time of entrenchment, stabilization, and consolidation. The whirlwind conquests of earlier generations had given way to a system that intended to endure. Tribute flowed from peripheral kingdoms such as Nanzhao to the Emperor of Bod in Rhasa. The silk road cities brought treasure and magnificent horses up to the high mountain palaces. The Great Qi, for all their legendary strength sent them tribute as well, either willingly or at spear-point.

While stern-faced monks with crimson robes might have reminded their lord and king that all things were transitory, and death, like life, was just another part of the wheel of samsara, the sublime Emperor Sotkhri Tsenpo sought the advice of shamans and mystics, dreaming of ways to live forever, to become the divinity he knew in his heart he was. These scholars and alchemists came to Rhasa with vile-smelling powders. One in particular should be noted: made from saltpeter, honey, and sulfur, it was a recipe learned in China. These alchemists taught their Emperor many ways of preserving his vital force, and yet in the end Sotkhri Tsenpo was no more immortal than his predecessors. His son, Chatri Tsenpo Tridarma learned from the pride of his father and did not concern himself with such frivolous things. The foreign holy men were an affront to his court. He banished them.

These travelers took their strange powders and herbs elsewhere, to Sogd and Uighuristan, to India and China. Sometimes they were lucky, and their experiments were patronized. Mostly they would fall into obscurity unless they could find some particularly gullible local potentate. Their story however, is one that would have ramifications that would eventually echo across the world.

There were hard limits to how far the Bod Empire could stretch, especially as the Qi Empire began to revive itself after 764. The Bod Empire's population was limited, their governance dependant on the prestige and supposed invincibility of the Empire's armies. When faced against an enemy such as the Qi, this invincibility seemed more truth than legend. The era of easily beaten conscript armies had come to an end, however. The new armies were disciplined and professional. If they lacked an abundance of quality horses they made up for it with fine archery and men drilled in long pike formations.

Tibetan raids against the Qi dynasty became infrequent after these reforms. While Qi armies still feared to fight the Tibetans on their own turf, they had grown more bold in asserting their own borders. They might have become bolder still, and crushed the upjumped Tibetans and carried the Emperor and his treasures away from Rhasa, but there was a greater, even more warlike threat on their borders.

The Uighur Khaganate dominated the eastern steppe. The first truly powerful threat from the steppes since the apogee of the Gokturks, the Uighur society was literate and complex. They built cities and Vajrayana Buddhist communities, uniting their subject peoples with a shared religious and cultural identity. Rituals in which all their vassals were mandated to attend reinforced the preeminence of the Khagan. The Khagan, Qutlugh Kol, ruled by 762 a vast dominion, stretching from Sogdia to the land of the Jurchens, from the cold deep forests of Siberia to the coast of Bohai Sea.
Standard Qi policy was to buy the Uighurs off. Some raids were inevitable - there would always be tribes who needed to risk raiding and generally the Qi could not afford the sort of massive campaign it would take to break the Uighurs. Cooperation was cheaper and saved countless peasant lives - an important thing indeed the wake of Sima Zhixen's rebellion.

The Qi still lived in the shadow of Sima Zhixen. Emperor Jingzong (788-803) who had grown up during the bloody excesses of the rebellion knew full well that luck had saved the Qi dynasty as much as any reform of strength of arms. It only took another young, disillusioned and charismatic visionary to throw the entire system into bloody anarchy. Another "Maitreya Buddha" could ruin all that his ancestors had built once more. The Mandate of Heaven seemed imperiled after the great rebellion, and he would find himself struggling to restore a sense of legitimacy to the Qi as the trends which had led to the first rebellion began to reassert themselves.

The new professional armies of the Qi dynasty had been based on the training of foreigners - mercenaries, largely from Sogdia and the Uighurs, but from as far afield as the Rhom Shahdom. With the training complete, the anti-mercenary sentiment of the Qi dynasty pushed back against these reforms and left the professional armies without these mercenary auxiliaries. Most of the mercenaries would enter into the service of the Uighur Khagan, who offered generous payment. Accordingly, rather than foreign born commanders, command returned by 790 to the hands of a new generation of scholar bureaucrats with little practical experience. The officers beneath them had plenty of experience and training, but it was these officers that the state feared.

The Qi dynasty, in most other contexts, would have been quickly a footnote in the annals of history. But China was vast, economically prosperous, and densely populated. Accordingly, they could survive while still utilizing policies which would have damned most other polities. However, in the aftermath of the rebellion, the economic prosperity and dense population were limited. Attempts at reform failed to address the underlying structural issues. The Liang had succeeded because they were cosmopolitan and willing to change, unlike the rigid Qi, who consistently refused to learn from the past and rolled back their reforms out of the abiding paranoia their dynasty never seemed capable of shaking off.

It should accordingly be no wonder that by the dawn of the ninth century the Qi would seem vulnerable and weak to their neighbors. The very mercenaries who had served with the Qi were quick to counsel their new masters to war. And while the Uighurs were one concern, and a critical one, another major threat was emerging to the south in the form of the Tai people of [FONT=&quot]Guangxi. A curious melting pot culture shaped by both Sinic and Indian influences, the Tai represented one of the many vassal peoples of southern China whose connection to the Empire had always been loose. With the decline of the Qi, they and others would see an unprecedented opportunity to break free. [/FONT]

The Western Steppes: Turkestan and the Oghuz

Roughly speaking, Western Turkestan was united under the Oghuz Khaganate. Based around the Aral Sea and Syr Darya, they were one of many powerful tribes which had fled west in the wake of Uighur ascension. Other powerful tribes such as the Basmyl, Karluks, and Kimeks gave them token submission, owing primarily to their geographic position and numbers. This limited unification of the Turkestani steppes was more arranged on cultural and religious lines than any centralization. The important cult of the Amitabha Buddha, Tengri-worship, and a common linguistic family gave a sense of common identity and perhaps most importantly allowed outsiders to view the peoples of the steppe as a monolithic whole.

Indeed to speak of the Oghuz as a single polity is perhaps a misunderstanding. Local tribal rulers, called Yabghu, had remarkable autonomy in how they conducted their relations with other clans and polities. Raiders and small clans would often travel south to seek employment or plunder from the Aghatsaghid Shahs. This slow migration allowed the Iranian civilization time to slowly assimilate these newcomers, although the cultural shift was by no means a one-way street. Turkic loanwords and customs began to infuse themselves into the Eftal-Iranian culture. The Oghuz themselves would by the beginning of the ninth century be very Iranian in dress and customs. The presence of many Xvarazmi and Sogdians within their territory only enforced this transition and assimilation.

Attempts by the Aghatsaghids to establish fortified outposts into Turkestan were largely failures. The Oghuz and most other tribes were willing to give the Aghatsaghids a wide berth, generally speaking, and from time to time token tribute. However they did not tolerate Aghatsaghid incursions and generally speaking were more than capable of ensuring that such outposts fell. Despite the continual trickle of young men south, the Oghuz were more than capable of defending themselves, even from new threats such as the Bajinak.

The origins of the Bajinak Khanate are, like the origins of most steppe peoples, relatively shrouded in mystery. What is known is that after fleeing the expansion of the Uighurs they came into contact first with the Quban and next with the Oghuz, both of whom were capable of chasing the Bajinak off but not subduing them. From there, the Bajinak would travel north. Unlike many of the other tribes of the region they had limited contact with Iranic peoples and limited opportunities to assimilate. As such their culture was a more "pure" Turkic when the Bajinak arrived in the Volga basin. However it would not remain that way for long. Like the Avars and many others before them, their interactions with the Slavic peoples they encountered would form a sort of melting pot and lead to the creation of a distinct identity, neither wholly Slavic nor Turkic.

By the dawn of the ninth century, however, the majority of the steppe and Iranian plateau could broadly be described as a heterogeneous civilization nevertheless linked by a common part Eftal-Iranian and part Turkic culture. Large scale military campaigns between the various polities of the steppe and the Aghatsaghids were rare, owing to the lack of centralization of the steppe peoples and the lack of interest on the part of the sprawling Aghatsaghid Shahdom.
 
This has become one of my favorite Pre-1900 TLs. Every time i check the forum i skim for it, before checking out everything else :p
 
Seconded. I absolutely love this timeline and hope it goes on for a while!!
The map was helpful, it clarified a few things - Central Asia, for example, is so huge that I never quite get who is where from mere verbal descriptions. With the map, it´s crystal clear now.

Quite a Tibet-wank, I should say! And gunpowder, too..
 
This has become one of my favorite Pre-1900 TLs. Every time i check the forum i skim for it, before checking out everything else :p
Thanks! That's a hell of a compliment.

Seconded. I absolutely love this timeline and hope it goes on for a while!!
The map was helpful, it clarified a few things - Central Asia, for example, is so huge that I never quite get who is where from mere verbal descriptions. With the map, it´s crystal clear now.

Quite a Tibet-wank, I should say! And gunpowder, too..

Yeah, I'd be lying if I said the map wasn't about half for my own benefit. I'd be totally lost without it sometimes.

And it's not too much more of a Tibet-wank than real life. The gunpowder thing isn't beyond the realm of plausibility either, and its worth mentioning nobody has really considered military applications for it for a long time. The idea is disseminated but like so many things it's a matter of luck and time before somebody figures out how to make the first fire-spears or whatnot.
 
Thanks! That's a hell of a compliment.



Yeah, I'd be lying if I said the map wasn't about half for my own benefit. I'd be totally lost without it sometimes.

And it's not too much more of a Tibet-wank than real life. The gunpowder thing isn't beyond the realm of plausibility either, and its worth mentioning nobody has really considered military applications for it for a long time. The idea is disseminated but like so many things it's a matter of luck and time before somebody figures out how to make the first fire-spears or whatnot.

I got to agree. The gunpowder isn't beyond the realm of plausibility, but like OTL it'll still take a few hundred years before anybody is able to imagine its military applications.

Are there any inventions ITTL though that are likely to be behind those of OTL though because of what has happened?
 
Experimental medicine and experimentation in general are set back. Medicine as a whole lags - too many classical texts are annihilated and what remains is much more limited. The Middle East lacks the urban hospitals build during the Islamic golden age. The closest equivalent would be some monasteries in some places. Post-collapse, there's not been many great public works projects of any kind. Urban decay means that in contrast to our timeline, the finished goods of the middle east are of lower quality and fewer in number. Accordingly, Mediterranean trade, while less interrupted, is a bit less profitable.

Imagine a world where the Islamic Golden Age was more or less nipped in the bud, with the corresponding damage to philosophy, science, and culture. As for concrete inventions, few have been outright stopped, but things such as early windmills may be delayed in coming about.

It should be noted however, that India has a lot of fancy and advanced ideas that are still making it into the Eftal world, much as they made it into the Arab world. The real tragedy is that less has been done to improve upon that tradition than in OTL. However now that the collapse is drawing to a close, we can expect things to improve in that regard, albeit on a slower timetable.
 
I didn't mean to criticise the mention of gunpowder as implausible, not in the least. I just meant that if it's Tibet which understands what the potential is, then it's going to be incredibly strong.
 
I didn't mean to criticise the mention of gunpowder as implausible, not in the least. I just meant that if it's Tibet which understands what the potential is, then it's going to be incredibly strong.

Well, the road to a functioning gun is a long one. At first, Tibetan "firearms" will probably be little more than fireworks that scare the enemy more than actually damage it (still, that's incredibly valuable, and armies with low discipline may even just crap their pants and make a run for it if faced with the Magic Tibetan Firebreathers :p)

After a while though, the neighborhood is going to get used to Tibet's new weapons, and the shock factor wears off. By that time, Tibet needs to have created cannons or something that can actually cause damage.

if it does this... daaaang. Pretty much any direction on the compass is a possible venue of expansion. :O

But only if they're able to outcompete their neighbors economically. Secrets don't stay kept forever, and eventually peoples outside Tibet will learn how to assemble gunpowder weapons. At that point it's a matter of who can produce a higher quantity and quality... in other words, a competition of economies. China's the biggest threat here. Tibet's population is low, and their mountainous geography is always going to handicap yields outside of the Yarlung Tsangpo Valley, keeping their population low. A low population impedes urban development, and thus impedes industrial development. I doubt that Tibet be able to outproduce a resurgent Qi or some plucky young dynasty that replaces it, and that could mean the end of Tibetan supremacy.

Unless, through conquest of the right places or trade with the right places, they somehow gain a large enough economy to compete with China. If they do that... the Great Tibetan Empire's going to be a sight to behold :eek:
 
Tibet's primacy will last about as long as their neighbors are weak, divided, or apathetic about conquering them, and I honestly can't see early gunpowder making the difference there.

It's worth noting that in this timeline China possesses the same chemical formulas that the Tibetan mystics do - and indeed that is where the mystics got those formulas from. There's accordingly an equal or perhaps better chance of China making use of this technology first. Once either one starts, I'm sure the idea will spread like wildfire, as will the know-how.
 
Franks
Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn

King Theuderic had the misfortune to inherit a sprawling state built upon loose foundations, and this issue would preoccupy his early reign. Stretching from Hispania to Saxony, this "Greater Francia" that was his father's making was perhaps more accurately described as a rough union of the various Romanized Germanic peoples who had brought down the western half of the first Roman Empire. However, what legitimacy he had had been won by his father at sword-point, and brute military force would be necessary to maintain his state. Though the core of his army was centralized and professional, the legacy of Clovis' reforms and the great estates of central Francia, Theuderic also depended on the various ranking nobles, the Dukes who were effectively lesser Kings and the Counts who, though not hereditary, nevertheless possessed extraordinary power. Beneath these mighty figures were the lesser nobility, divided into the Frankish fief-holding landlords (or "riders") who lacked hereditary title to their lands, and the hereditary estates of Roman origin, largely preserved throughout Aquitaine and Hispania. While the Frankish "rider" was assured that his sons would almost certainly follow in his footsteps, he was never tied to the land in the same way that his Gallo-Roman counterpart was. He was tied to the crown and to his lord or King, and this goes a long way to explain the number of Frankish aristocrats that travelled East - they sought more permanent wealth and had little to lose back home.

However, the Gallo-Romans, a class which also includes many Franks and Goths who found themselves with similarly hereditary and ancient estates, lacked this sense of loyalty, and as the Franks streamed East, many of these Romans saw opportunities. Rebellions wracked the south, and Theuderic spent little of his reign at peace. These rebellions however were uncoordinated, and saw the large-scale decline of the traditional aristocracy in favor of these new "riders" who were granted mass holdings carved out of the newly conquered estates.

By the time that the situation began to settle down around the turn of the century, the Pope in Rome was making new appeals to the unity of the Universal Church against the heathens. The loss of Jerusalem in 793 saw renewed calls for Votive Soldiers to take up arms, but Theuderic was himself a cynical man, and refused the call, which he saw as yet another attempt by the Papacy to enrich Rome at the cost of his own Empire. Despite condemnation by local bishops and holy men, few Franks went east, and those who did largely went as mercenaries in the Roman armies. Those with little to lose and everything to gain had already gone East in the first waves and stayed there. Those who returned from the Votive War had gained little and were unlikely to desire another protracted conflict in the East. Furthermore, Frankish manpower was low. Theuderic made extensive use of small, elite, mounted forces. The tactics his advisors taught him had been learned in battle against the Avar-Xasars and similar steppe foes, and the Franks shifted further and further away from their infantry-based shield walls in favor of heavy or medium horse as the decisive factor in warfare.

Meanwhile, to their south, the Roman Empire found itself massively overstretched. Roman Asia in particular was practically autonomous, with the local cities there unwilling to negotiate away the privileges they had gained under the Eftal for any price. The resurgent Xasar, after defeating the Duchy of Srem had begun to raid into the Balkans once more. The Roman armies were atrophied by constant campaigning, and despite, or perhaps due to, their professional nature, fresh reinforcements were difficult to come by. The military-bureaucratic system cultivated by the Isidorians had been ideal for defending Italia and some peripheral territories, but it fell apart when it came to securing the newly doubled territory. This massive expansion strained the Imperial treasury to the breaking point. Needing money and manpower, Severus sought to extract both from Asia, sending large garrisons to the local cities and appointing strict magistrates who ensured levies and taxes flowed back to the capital.

Emperor Severus was in many ways a victim of his own successes. Just as he found it difficult to govern his new conquests he found it difficult to shake the image of himself as a usurper. He was convinced that a decent number of his high ranking officers secretly despised him, and he knew that the Slavic lords of the Balkans definitely did. When the Emperor died in 803, despite his advanced age, it was not hard to suspect foul play, and those closest to the Emperor definitely did so, turning on each other rapidly. Severus had but a single son and several sons-in-law, but "coincidentally" by the time his body was cooling the young son was dead and the eldest of the sons-in-law, the Legate Valerian, was the prime suspect. The Magister Militium, Asterius, moved to have Valerian arrested, but the wily Legate escaped. Fleeing with a cabal of loyal officers and as much of the royal treasury as he could load onto a boat, Valerian escaped to the Balkans where he sought to raise an army with the help of a group of influential local magistrates. The Roman cities of Asia, meanwhile, realized that Severus' death was an excellent opportunity to renegotiate their position. In the Kingdom of Asia, King Helinand had recently passed away, succeeded by his son Mansuetus. Mansuetus was seen as a temperate, reasonable man, and the Roman cities sent delegates to Nicomedia, where during a three week council the cities managed to extract many concessions in exchange for swearing fealty to the Frankish King of Asia. Shortly thereafter, these same delegates, as part of the pre-arranged agreement, proclaimed Mansuetus Emperor to the cheering of his retainers and soldiers. Crossing the straits, they met with the Patriarch of Constantinople at the Chapel of St. Maria and Mansuetus was officially crowned as "Emperor of the Romans". Meanwhile, back in Florentia, Magister Asterius set aside his wife with Papal blessing and married Severus' youngest daughter, Theodora, thirteen years old, seeking to enhance his own dynastic legitimacy in a bid to be proclaimed Emperor. Asterius, however, was not popular with the rank and file. He had not fought in the Votive War and his promotion to the position was largely seen as a consequence of his political ability but as his ties to Severus. It was only with the spreading stories of a Frankish "Emperor" in the East that Asterius finally took action, being enthroned in a majestic ceremony. The Pope condemned the new Frankish Emperor as illegitimate and in return the Patriarch of Constantinople condemned the Pope as a puppet. Emperor Mansuetus was the bulwark of Europe against the heathens! The usurpers of the West were the true illegitimate ones, the Severian dynasty being no more than upjumped farmers from Illyria and Asterius himself was committing an act of adultery by marrying into it.

Valerian, proclaimed Emperor by his troops, found himself in the worst position of any of the Imperial claimants. He was dependent on the Slavic aristocracy, who had little love for him, and had mostly understrength units under his command. Furthermore, the resurgent Xasars looked greedily on his territories, which included several exposed stretches of the Danube. However, despite his weakness, no-one acted against him. Mansuetus was preoccupied with the Aghatsaghids and the remaining Eftal, and Asterius faced a rebellion in Sicily among the remaining Mauri merchant-princes which lasted four years between 811-815. As such, he had the better part of two decades to secure his position. Hiring Turkish and Bulgar mercenaries to his cause, by 820 he felt safe enough to invade Italy in force. Asterius fell back in the face of this new threat, raising fresh forces and knowing that Italy would be a tough nut to crack in the interim. Without a fleet of his own, Valerian had no way of taking Ravenna, and he squandered several years reducing the cities of the Po valley. By the time he was ready to march on Florentia, Asterius was ready. He let Valerian encircle the well-fortified and well-provisioned city and then enveloped Valerian in turn. Valerian, with the help of his mercenaries managed to fight his way out of the encirclement, but it was a close-run thing indeed. He suffered a minor wound and later that year in 821, he would pass away, his army largely disintegrating and turning to banditry until Asterius finally restored order to the Balkans in 824.

The Frankish Kingdom itself chose to sit out this massive succession crisis. Theuderic for the first time found his Empire relatively calm. The Slavic marches were quiet, and for the first time no nobles hinted at rebellion. Theuderic could rest in Paris for the first time in decades. And indeed, the Franks had their own crisis brewing. Theuderic was growing older, and he had four sons - inevitably, it seemed, his kingdom would be divided upon his death. Unwilling to see this happen, in 807 he adopted a more Roman style system of succession - naming his eldest son, Clovis, Co-King, and granting the others Palatine titles - ensuring that they would be kept close to crown. Going forwards, this would prevent the anarchic succession practices that historically had ensured the collapse of any large Frankish Kingdom.

North Africa - the Free People

It was not until 800 that the trade routes between the Mediterranean world and North Africa truly began to recover from the collapse of the Mauri. It was not that the Berber people did not understand the value of trade, but climate shifts and urban decline made the sort of bulk trade that would be genuinely profitable difficult. Merchants operating on East-West trade lanes could move bulk products to a degree which the Berbers simply could not - dependent as they were upon attenuate trade lanes manned by Taureg caravans.

The gold, spices, and ivory of Ghana would however ultimately begin to trickle northwards, catching the attention of the Latin world. Rumors of golden kingdoms and shimmering palaces of solid gold spread like wildfire. Africa beyond the great desert became a land of mystery and magic in the collective imagination of the Christian world. However, it was also unreachable. Few travelers crossed the great desert due to the extraordinary number of middlemen facilitating the trade - countless local Amazigh and Tuareg tribes stood between the iron kingdoms of the continent and the ambitious Mediterranean merchants.

These tribes did not develop the same central cohesion that had characterized their Mauri predecessors. Where the Mauri embraced the legacy of the Roman Empire, the Berber successor states tended to repudiate this legacy in favor of their own mythic heritage. Accordingly they did not form major polities, creating at best loose alliances when it was expedient to do so. In the far west, the Masamida were perhaps the most united of the tribes, and then only because such unity was required to effectively raid Iberia.

The religious makeup of the region favored paganism. The Nicene Church in Africa had always been somewhat schismatic and perhaps less organized than many of its counterparts - heretical tendencies here were part of a broad historic trend. As such with the collapse of centralized Mauri authority the Church fell into relative anarchy as well. The heretical gnostic ideas of organizations such as the "Tinanians" divided the Church and encouraged various sects to flee into the wilderness and isolate themselves rather than actively proselytize. The indigenous Jewish populations (including many Jews who had fled from Spain) had more success, gaining converts among some local clans, but this too was a limited phenomenon. Local cults retained their strength. Prominent gods such as Idir, the living god, and Gurzil, a warrior deity, might have enjoyed some universal appeal, but generally speaking day-to-day veneration was confined to local spirits and minor deities associated with landmarks. The one commonality between tribes was the worship of celestial bodies, especially the Sun.

The Berbers however kept few written records. What we do know of them comes mostly from the Christian communities huddled along the coast, and these communities had a conflicted relationship with their neighbors. On one hand the Berbers maintained the great trade routes across the continent - on the other hand they had destroyed the Mauri civilization and with it much of the region's historic prosperity. The Berbers also left little in terms of a visible legacy. Architecturally they either maintained Mauri buildings or left uninspiring but functional fortified towns. They lacked the capacity or interest in the construction of massive projects. They however did leave many elaborate finished goods - ornate polished beads, gold and iron jewelry, intricately carved furniture, proof of an advanced and technically skilled culture.

It is a matter of some historical curiosity why the Berber invaders never assimilated as so many other peoples did. Most of their immediate neighbors lived in the shadow of the Roman Empire - Roman was almost a byword for prestige and power. The Mauri, the Italians, even some Eftal... many disparate peoples considered themselves Roman or the inheritors of Roman glory. It is easy to cast the Berber disdain for that tradition as provincialism or barbarism. However, those peoples who brought down the Mauri had never been even at the periphery of the Roman world. Its heritage was irrelevant to them, and their main association with it was the Mauri. The divided, squabbling Christian religion of Africa was not as impressive or influential as the unified Latin Church whose emissaries the Western Slavs would encounter.

Accordingly, the growth of Christianity among the Amazigh people would be a slow process, prone to syncretic tendencies. Churches where Christ is represented as haloed by the radiant sun were not uncommon. Libyan deities became angels, and the polytheism of the Berbers endured despite regular missionary and mercantile adventures into the North African interior.
 
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