The Goose Stepping Redcoats - The History of the House of Brandenburg in Britain

[Analytical Engine]

*urge to read more intensifies*

 

[Georg von Frundsberg]

Since Fred isn’t King of Britain for another 17 years, he would be King in Prussia doing his own thing. He would be expected to rule in person in Prussia in the meantime. Would his policies really be 100% lockstep with that of his mother‘s(more accurately her parliament’s)? I would also presume that after ruling as a relatively successful absolute king for 17 years, he ain’t gonna kowtow to parliament. BTW, how does Russia factor into the alliances? There was a bit of personal rivalry between Fred and Empress Elizabeth.

But Russian trade in the 18th century was entirely dependent on British merchants. Elizabeth should think twice before antagonising the King of Britain too much. Russia was also allied with Austria so as long as the Auglo-Austrian alliance holds then Russia and Prussia must get along. Russian aggression towards Prussia would leave the former diplomatically isolated and they could not ally with France.

Yet a Prussian annexation of Royal Prussia including Danzig would pit the two countries against each other. Still, I think the issue can be resolved by offering Russian economic concessions at the port of Danzig, or a partition of Poland, or British support in wars against the Ottomans (as long as Russia did not take Constantinople).

 

[Avrorrange]

But Russian trade in the 18th century was entirely dependent on British merchants. Elizabeth should think twice before antagonising the King of Britain too much. Russia was also allied with Austria so as long as the Auglo-Austrian alliance holds then Russia and Prussia must get along. Russian aggression towards Prussia would leave the former diplomatically isolated and they could not ally with France.

Yet a Prussian annexation of Royal Prussia including Danzig would pit the two countries against each other. Still, I think the issue can be resolved by offering Russian economic concessions at the port of Danzig, or a partition of Poland, or British support in wars against the Ottomans (as long as Russia did not take Constantinople).

Why could the Russians not ally with France? Because Louis’ father in law was King of Poland and that his daughter in law is a Saxon/Polish princess?

 

[Georg von Frundsberg]

Why could the Russians not ally with France? Because Louis’ father in law was King of Poland and that his daughter in law is a Saxon/Polish princess?

Because of the Franco-Ottoman Alliance, but this alternate 'Diplomatic Revolution' is an interesting concept, however implausible it is.

 

[Jürgen]

Because of the Franco-Ottoman Alliance.

Yes, the Austro-Russian alliance made a lot more sense until the Ottomans was reduced to irrelevancy and even if the Ottomans are broken the existence of Poland remove any major reason for a Austro-Russian conflict.

 

[Old1812]

I'm curious what Frederick William's relationship with Parliament will look like ITTL, and whether he'll sympathize with the Whigs or the Tories.

 

[Georg von Frundsberg]

CHAPTER I: The Queen, the King, and the Elector
Part 1: A Family Tragedy​

George Louis was determined not to let his children repeat his debacle with Sophia Dorothea so he allowed his son and daughter to choose whomever they truly loved. Aged 21 in 1705, George Augustus secretly travelled to Ansbach under the pseudonym of ‘Monsieur de Busch’. He desired to see Caroline, the daughter of Margrave John Frederick, who was famed for her intelligence and beauty. She was much sought after by princes across Europe, and was even proposed to the future Holy Roman Emperor Charles VI. However, reluctant to convert to Roman Catholicism, she rejected the offer. George Augustus was enchanted by her ‘good characters’ and liked her so dearly that he would not ‘think of anyone else’. She was also closely related to his family since she had been taken care of by his aunt, Queen Sophia Charlotte of Prussia after being orphaned at the age of 13. They finally tied the knot on 22 August 1705 in a lavish ceremony at Hanover. George Louis was overjoyed when she announced her pregnancy in May 1706. A son, named Frederick, was born on 20 January 1707. Later that year, Caroline contracted a case of pneumonia which spooked George Louis and her mother. While she managed to recover from the illness, she would not recover from heartbreaks.

George Louis’ daughter, Sophia Dorothea, married Prussian Prince Frederick William. The marriage between George Louis’ sister Sophia Charlotte and King Frederick I of Prussia had already brought the Hanoverians and Hohenzollerns together. Frederick initially desired a match between his son and the Swedish princess Ulrika Eleanora to pursue an alliance with Sweden, the hegemon of Northern Europe at the time. Swedish King Charles XII had routed Russia earlier at Narva and was invading Poland. Frederick William, however, preferred Sophia Dorothea and bribed the Prussian envoy to write a disparaging report about her to dissuade his father. Sophia Dorothea’s tall and slender figure had charmed Frederick William, who gave her the nickname ‘Fiekchen’.

The marriage, which took place in Berlin on 27 November 1706, was the most luxurious and extravagant of its time. Her grandmother bought her wedding trousseau from Paris, which was said to be the most beautiful among all German princesses. Frederick William and his family received her outside the city, beginning a six-week celebration with banquets, balls and torch dances.

Soon tragedies would befall the family.

Like his father, George Augustus was a fearless warrior who sought glory and excitement on the battlefield. The War of the Spanish Succession had been raging on in Flanders and France was preparing a new campaign to dislodge the Anglo-Austrian army led by the Duke of Marlborough and Eugene of Savoy. George Louis was cautious in letting his only son join the fight since he knew very well the dangers of war. It was only after the birth of Frederick that he was permitted to sign up to Eugene’s Imperial Army as a dragoon. In 1708, he was placed under the command of General Jorgan Rantzau. The French began their summer campaign by taking the initiative and capturing Ghent and Burges, then proceeded towards Oudenarde in an attempt to cut off Marlborough’s army from the English Channel. Marlborough had acted swiftly and preempted the French by reaching Lessines. This strategic manoeuvre thwarted the French commander, the Duke of Vendome, from exploiting the easier option of an attack from the south. He was forced to reroute across the River Scheldt and approach the city from the north, which delayed his army by a day. Meanwhile, Marlborough ordered pontoon bridges to be constructed to transport troops to the west bank. On July 11, at sunrise, he appointed his deputies William Cadgoan and Rantzau to lead an advance division comprising dragoons and infantrymen to the nearby village of Eine.

At around 09:00, the French advance guards, led by Lieutenant Duke of Biron, spotted the Anglo-Imperial army. He immediately alerted Vendome who ordered him to attack. The cautious Cadogan chose to wait for reinforcements [1], thus allowing Biron to take the initiative. His advance guards charged towards Cadogan’s dragoons at 13:00. George Augustus was one of many who took part in this action. He was struck by a projectile in the head and fell from his horse. The injuries were fatal. His death went unnoticed amid the smoke and chaos on the battlefield until the fighting subsided in the evening.

Biron’s attack was driven back by the timely arrival of an English infantry brigade led by John Campbell, which destroyed six cavalry units. The main French army was divided into two flanks, with the left flank commanded by the Duke of Burgundy and the right led by Vendome. The grandson of King Louis XIV, Burgundy was an arrogant and inexperienced general who often quarrelled with the latter. Vendome made his move at 13:00 [2] but Burgundy, surprisingly, withheld his troops, convinced that the marshy terrain in front of him was not suitable for cavalry. Some historians believed it was merely an excuse and Burgundy’s inaction was a deliberate protest. Alarmed by the attack, Marlborough hastily ordered a crossing. The two armies met at the village of Bevere at 15:00, just in time for him to take defensive positions [2]. A two-hour pitched battle ensued as Marlborough struggled to overcome French infantry lines. On the right flank along the Diepenbeck stream, Rantzau’s cavalry ferociously fended off Biron’s repeated attempt to take over the bridge. The latter briefly prevailed but Eugene’s forces had arrived just in time to save the flank from collapse. Biron was shot by a Prussian cavalryman and was carried off the battlefield. As his squadron panicked and dispersed, Vendome’s left flank was exposed. He quickly dispatched reservists and the elite Maison de Roi cavalry to hold the line. He failed to notice that a Dutch reinforcement of 25000 men, led by General Hendrik Overkirk had occupied Boser Couter heights, prepared to take his rear. The Dutch cavalrymen charged down the hill like a flood, Vendome ordered a withdrawal at 18:30 and a rout ensued. Burgundy finally set off to aid his comrades but he was too late. They briefly briefly skirmished with a Dutch squadron led by the Prince of Orange, but he was beaten back. By 20:00, the fighting subsided as Burgundy and Vendome retreated to Ghent.

George Augustus’ corpse was discovered and carried back to Hanover. When his father was informed of his death five days later he reportedly sat ‘like a rock’, unable to process what had happened. He did not inform his mother Sophia until his son’s coffin arrived a week later. Caroline broke down and wept when the news broke to her. She was so devastated that she did not eat for two days. His funeral was held on 25 July at the Herrenhausen Palace chapel, the same spot where he married Caroline two years ago. Sophia Dorothea and Frederick William travelled to Hanover to say a final goodbye to her brother. The Prussian Prince wrote that “even the carriage horses felt her sadness… she never stopped weeping and her eyes were as red and swollen”. George Augustus’ mother was surprisingly missing from the funeral as she was not informed until after it had taken place.

With the death of his father, the infant Frederick was the first-in-line to succeed the Electorate after George Louis, followed by his childless brother Ernest Augustus. He was carefully taken care of by Caroline and her mother-in-law. Sadly, another disaster struck weeks after.

There was a renewed outbreak of smallpox among servants at Herrenhausen in autumn. The same plague would go on to ravage European royal courts until 1714. The young Frederick possibly contracted the disease from a maid. Electress Sophia summoned a physician from the Netherlands while a horrified Caroline, barely recovering from bereavement, secluded herself at the chapel praying for a miracle. Emanuel Howe, the British ambassador to Hanover at the time noted that “... she was going through unbearable trials. She is hollowed out within, her eyes show a contagious sorrow and paranoia as she stares aimlessly and whispers scriptures wherever she goes… staying alone in the chapel until late midnight, and often skipping supper…” Her prayers, however, were all for nought, as Frederick would pass away on the night of 21 September. Upon hearing the news, George Louis fell to his knees in disbelief. It was said that Sophia collapsed on her chair immediately. Caroline was awakened from sleep when the Dutch physician broke into her room and stuttered out the bad news. What followed was a prolonged and eerie silence, and then a sudden scream that could be heard throughout the palace. These nightmares had broken her.

The effects of George Augustus and Frederick’s deaths were also felt in Britain. The news arrived in London in October just as Queen Anne’s husband, Prince-consort George of Denmark, succumbed to a lung disease. She reportedly lamented “Our Lord is disfavouring me and my lineage of inheritance.” Their deaths were widely publicised in pamphlets and gazettes and conveniently reused in political propaganda. Whigs and Anti-Papists blamed George Augustus’ death on an elaborate conspiracy plotted by the exiled Jacobites and Rome, accusing them of sabotaging the Protestant Succession. On the contrary, High Church followers like Henry Sacheverell joyfully called it a ‘divine retribution’, which was later cited as evidence in his impeachment trial in 1710. Some historians attributed Marlborough’s fall from grace to Anne blaming his alleged negligence for George Augustus’ death.

Notes:
[1]: Point of Divergence: In OTL Cadogan had attacked first and inflicted a defeat on Biron’s cavalry and Swiss guards. The fighting was a close call for George Augustus as it was said that the colonel behind him was killed.
[2]: In OTL, Vendome wasted crucial time waiting for Burgundy’s move. Here Vendome had acted sooner, giving Marlborough less time to prepare.

Next: The Two Brides

 

[Analytical Engine]

It's happening!

 

[Dragonboy]

Great chapter! Keep going!

 

[TheBeanieBaron]

Can’t wait to see where this timeline goes!

 

[Nuraghe]

CHAPTER I: The Queen, the King, and the Elector
Part 1: A Family Tragedy​

George Louis was determined not to let his children repeat his debacle with Sophia Dorothea so he allowed his son and daughter to choose whomever they truly loved. Aged 21 in 1705, George Augustus secretly travelled to Ansbach under the pseudonym of ‘Monsieur de Busch’. He desired to see Caroline, the daughter of Margrave John Frederick, who was famed for her intelligence and beauty. She was much sought after by princes across Europe, and was even proposed to the future Holy Roman Emperor Charles VI. However, reluctant to convert to Roman Catholicism, she rejected the offer. George Augustus was enchanted by her ‘good characters’ and liked her so dearly that he would not ‘think of anyone else’. She was also closely related to his family since she had been taken care of by his aunt, Queen Sophia Charlotte of Prussia after being orphaned at the age of 13. They finally tied the knot on 22 August 1705 in a lavish ceremony at Hanover. George Louis was overjoyed when she announced her pregnancy in May 1706. A son, named Frederick, was born on 20 January 1707. Later that year, Caroline contracted a case of pneumonia which spooked George Louis and her mother. While she managed to recover from the illness, she would not recover from heartbreaks.

George Louis’ daughter, Sophia Dorothea, married Prussian Prince Frederick William. The marriage between George Louis’ sister Sophia Charlotte and King Frederick I of Prussia had already brought the Hanoverians and Hohenzollerns together. Frederick initially desired a match between his son and the Swedish princess Ulrika Eleanora to pursue an alliance with Sweden, the hegemon of Northern Europe at the time. Swedish King Charles XII had routed Russia earlier at Narva and was invading Poland. Frederick William, however, preferred Sophia Dorothea and bribed the Prussian envoy to write a disparaging report about her to dissuade his father. Sophia Dorothea’s tall and slender figure had charmed Frederick William, who gave her the nickname ‘Fiekchen’.

The marriage, which took place in Berlin on 27 November 1706, was the most luxurious and extravagant of its time. Her grandmother bought her wedding trousseau from Paris, which was said to be the most beautiful among all German princesses. Frederick William and his family received her outside the city, beginning a six-week celebration with banquets, balls and torch dances.

Soon tragedies would befall the family.

Like his father, George Augustus was a fearless warrior who sought glory and excitement on the battlefield. The War of the Spanish Succession had been raging on in Flanders and France was preparing a new campaign to dislodge the Anglo-Austrian army led by the Duke of Marlborough and Eugene of Savoy. George Louis was cautious in letting his only son join the fight since he knew very well the dangers of war. It was only after the birth of Frederick that he was permitted to sign up to Eugene’s Imperial Army as a dragoon. In 1708, he was placed under the command of General Jorgan Rantzau. The French began their summer campaign by taking the initiative and capturing Ghent and Burges, then proceeded towards Oudenarde in an attempt to cut off Marlborough’s army from the English Channel. Marlborough had acted swiftly and preempted the French by reaching Lessines. This strategic manoeuvre thwarted the French commander, the Duke of Vendome, from exploiting the easier option of an attack from the south. He was forced to reroute across the River Scheldt and approach the city from the north, which delayed his army by a day. Meanwhile, Marlborough ordered pontoon bridges to be constructed to transport troops to the west bank. On July 11, at sunrise, he appointed his deputies William Cadgoan and Rantzau to lead an advance division comprising dragoons and infantrymen to the nearby village of Eine.

At around 09:00, the French advance guards, led by Lieutenant Duke of Biron, spotted the Anglo-Imperial army. He immediately alerted Vendome who ordered him to attack. The cautious Cadogan chose to wait for reinforcements [1], thus allowing Biron to take the initiative. His advance guards charged towards Cadogan’s dragoons at 13:00. George Augustus was one of many who took part in this action. He was struck by a projectile in the head and fell from his horse. The injuries were fatal. His death went unnoticed amid the smoke and chaos on the battlefield until the fighting subsided in the evening.

Biron’s attack was driven back by the timely arrival of an English infantry brigade led by John Campbell, which destroyed six cavalry units. The main French army was divided into two flanks, with the left flank commanded by the Duke of Burgundy and the right led by Vendome. The grandson of King Louis XIV, Burgundy was an arrogant and inexperienced general who often quarrelled with the latter. Vendome made his move at 13:00 [2] but Burgundy, surprisingly, withheld his troops, convinced that the marshy terrain in front of him was not suitable for cavalry. Some historians believed it was merely an excuse and Burgundy’s inaction was a deliberate protest. Alarmed by the attack, Marlborough hastily ordered a crossing. The two armies met at the village of Bevere at 15:00, just in time for him to take defensive positions [2]. A two-hour pitched battle ensued as Marlborough struggled to overcome French infantry lines. On the right flank along the Diepenbeck stream, Rantzau’s cavalry ferociously fended off Biron’s repeated attempt to take over the bridge. The latter briefly prevailed but Eugene’s forces had arrived just in time to save the flank from collapse. Biron was shot by a Prussian cavalryman and was carried off the battlefield. As his squadron panicked and dispersed, Vendome’s left flank was exposed. He quickly dispatched reservists and the elite Maison de Roi cavalry to hold the line. He failed to notice that a Dutch reinforcement of 25000 men, led by General Hendrik Overkirk had occupied Boser Couter heights, prepared to take his rear. The Dutch cavalrymen charged down the hill like a flood, Vendome ordered a withdrawal at 18:30 and a rout ensued. Burgundy finally set off to aid his comrades but he was too late. They briefly briefly skirmished with a Dutch squadron led by the Prince of Orange, but he was beaten back. By 20:00, the fighting subsided as Burgundy and Vendome retreated to Ghent.

George Augustus’ corpse was discovered and carried back to Hanover. When his father was informed of his death five days later he reportedly sat ‘like a rock’, unable to process what had happened. He did not inform his mother Sophia until his son’s coffin arrived a week later. Caroline broke down and wept when the news broke to her. She was so devastated that she did not eat for two days. His funeral was held on 25 July at the Herrenhausen Palace chapel, the same spot where he married Caroline two years ago. Sophia Dorothea and Frederick William travelled to Hanover to say a final goodbye to her brother. The Prussian Prince wrote that “even the carriage horses felt her sadness… she never stopped weeping and her eyes were as red and swollen”. George Augustus’ mother was surprisingly missing from the funeral as she was not informed until after it had taken place.

With the death of his father, the infant Frederick was the first-in-line to succeed the Electorate after George Louis, followed by his childless brother Ernest Augustus. He was carefully taken care of by Caroline and her mother-in-law. Sadly, another disaster struck weeks after.

There was a renewed outbreak of smallpox among servants at Herrenhausen in autumn. The same plague would go on to ravage European royal courts until 1714. The young Frederick possibly contracted the disease from a maid. Electress Sophia summoned a physician from the Netherlands while a horrified Caroline, barely recovering from bereavement, secluded herself at the chapel praying for a miracle. Emanuel Howe, the British ambassador to Hanover at the time noted that “... she was going through unbearable trials. She is hollowed out within, her eyes show a contagious sorrow and paranoia as she stares aimlessly and whispers scriptures wherever she goes… staying alone in the chapel until late midnight, and often skipping supper…” Her prayers, however, were all for nought, as Frederick would pass away on the night of 21 September. Upon hearing the news, George Louis fell to his knees in disbelief. It was said that Sophia collapsed on her chair immediately. Caroline was awakened from sleep when the Dutch physician broke into her room and stuttered out the bad news. What followed was a prolonged and eerie silence, and then a sudden scream that could be heard throughout the palace. These nightmares had broken her.

The effects of George Augustus and Frederick’s deaths were also felt in Britain. The news arrived in London in October just as Queen Anne’s husband, Prince-consort George of Denmark, succumbed to a lung disease. She reportedly lamented “Our Lord is disfavouring me and my lineage of inheritance.” Their deaths were widely publicised in pamphlets and gazettes and conveniently reused in political propaganda. Whigs and Anti-Papists blamed George Augustus’ death on an elaborate conspiracy plotted by the exiled Jacobites and Rome, accusing them of sabotaging the Protestant Succession. On the contrary, High Church followers like Henry Sacheverell joyfully called it a ‘divine retribution’, which was later cited as evidence in his impeachment trial in 1710. Some historians attributed Marlborough’s fall from grace to Anne blaming his alleged negligence for George Augustus’ death.

Notes:
[1]: Point of Divergence: In OTL Cadogan had attacked first and inflicted a defeat on Biron’s cavalry and Swiss guards. The fighting was a close call for George Augustus as it was said that the colonel behind him was killed.
[2]: In OTL, Vendome wasted crucial time waiting for Burgundy’s move. Here Vendome had acted sooner, giving Marlborough less time to prepare.

excellent chapter, can I suggest one thing, with the Hanoverians dynasty tremendously at risk, Paris would almost certainly think they could mess with London using the Jacobite card, perhaps it would be the case that through some back channel, Anne gets in touch with her half-brother and Vienna ( and George I ) to agree on a non-aggression pact, where in exchange for JFES renouncing the English throne, he can obtain English and Welf support ( the Estes are the cadet branch of the Guelph dynasty, headed Hanoverians ) to inherit the maternal lands ( aka Modena and perhaps by marrying Isabella Farnese also Parma ) while Vienna can have the green light for the Bavarian annexation ( which Otl Joseph I supported very much, as a possible replacement for the Spanish Netherlands or at least to strengthen the imperial government and punish in an exemplary manner a traitor prince of the Reich )

 

[Analytical Engine]

Is there any push for Ernest Augustus to marry, even if he has to lie back and think of Brunswick-Lüneburg?

Otherwise, are there any other male-line members of the Lüneburg branch left after him? Does the duchy go to the Wolfenbüttel branch next?

 

[Georg von Frundsberg]

Here is the long-awaited update you are looking for! I have been busy lately with work and other commitments but I hope my schedule will get better in the new year.

Another reason why this update took a bit long is that I really needed the time to do some research. Thankfully, there is a bookstore where I live that sells many old history books at a very cheap price. I managed to get myself two books about this period which are ‘The Whig Supremacy 1714 - 1760’ (1949) by Basil William and ‘The Quest for Security 1715 - 1740’ (1963) Penfield Roberts. They really helped me understand contemporary European politics.

I also took some time to revise my writing and change the "book cover" (If you can notice )

 

[eliamartin65]

Here is the long-awaited update you are looking for! I have been busy lately with work and other commitments but I hope my schedule will get better in the new year.

Another reason why this update took a bit long is that I really needed the time to do some research. Thankfully, there is a bookstore where I live that sells many old history books at a very cheap price. I managed to get myself two books about this period which are ‘The Whig Supremacy 1714 - 1760’ (1949) by Basil William and ‘The Quest for Security 1715 - 1740’ (1963) Penfield Roberts. They really helped me understand contemporary European politics.

This was a wonderful update and I wish I had your bookstore luck....

 

[Dragonboy]

Here is the long-awaited update you are looking for! I have been busy lately with work and other commitments but I hope my schedule will get better in the new year.

Another reason why this update took a bit long is that I really needed the time to do some research. Thankfully, there is a bookstore where I live that sells many old history books at a very cheap price. I managed to get myself two books about this period which are ‘The Whig Supremacy 1714 - 1760’ (1949) by Basil William and ‘The Quest for Security 1715 - 1740’ (1963) Penfield Roberts. They really helped me understand contemporary European politics.

It was AMAZING!

 

[Georg von Frundsberg]

Is there any push for Ernest Augustus to marry, even if he has to lie back and think of Brunswick-Lüneburg?

Otherwise, are there any other male-line members of the Lüneburg branch left after him? Does the duchy go to the Wolfenbüttel branch next?

What do you think?

Next: The Two Brides

JFES renouncing the English throne, he can obtain English and Welf support ( the Estes are the cadet branch of the Guelph dynasty, headed Hanoverians ) to inherit the maternal lands ( aka Modena and perhaps by marrying Isabella Farnese also Parma ) while Vienna can have the green light for the Bavarian annexation ( which Otl Joseph I supported very much, as a possible replacement for the Spanish Netherlands or at least to strengthen the imperial government and punish in an exemplary manner a traitor prince of the Reich )

If the Sutarts just gave up early then could it improve the relations between the Hanoverians and the Tories? The Tories were out of power for nearly 50 years under George I and II in OTL as they suspected them of their closet Jacobite sympathies. Removing the Stuarts from the British political scene may allow an earlier Tory comeback.

Well, I plan to Bavaria punished but not that harshly. But sure, they will pay.

About the French supporting Jacobites, I actually had reservations they would do more than OTL to remove the Hanoverians from power. Assuming that Louis XIV still died on schedule in 1715 and Philippe of Orleans became Louis XV's regent.

 

[Analytical Engine]

What do you think?

I'm assuming that, judging by the first post, Ernest Augustus might not even live long enough for marriage and heirs to be an option.

I've been digging into the Welf family tree on wikipedia, and it doesn't look like there are any remaining male line members of the Lüneberg branch around at this time, except for a morganatic line from Augustus the Elder (so they're out unless something can be done about that) - or, if there are any, I can't find them. It looks like the Wolfenbüttel branch are going to inherit when the *cough* very much single *cough* Ernest Augustus passes.

So, Anthony Ulrich or Augustus William will be inheriting the Lüneberg domains in due course

Anthony Ulrich, Duke of Brunswick - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Augustus William, Duke of Brunswick-Wolfenbüttel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If the Sutarts just gave up early then could it improve the relations between the Hanoverians and the Tories? The Tories were out of power for nearly 50 years under George I and II in OTL as they suspected them of their closet Jacobite sympathies. Removing the Stuarts from the British political scene may allow an earlier Tory comeback.

Well, I plan to Bavaria punished but not that harshly. But sure, they will pay.

With James Edward Stuart being too busy elsewhere, Jacobitism will probably still be around (heck, it is still around today), but it will wither on the vine rather than blow up into a series of invasions and uprisings.

At least the Highlanders will fare better as a result. Well, at least until the clearances happen - since they largely happened for economic reasons, there's probably going to be some version of it sooner or later ITTL

 

[Nuraghe]

What do you think?



If the Sutarts just gave up early then could it improve the relations between the Hanoverians and the Tories? The Tories were out of power for nearly 50 years under George I and II in OTL as they suspected them of their closet Jacobite sympathies. Removing the Stuarts from the British political scene may allow an earlier Tory comeback.

Well, I plan to Bavaria punished but not that harshly. But sure, they will pay.

About the French supporting Jacobites, I actually had reservations they would do more than OTL to remove the Hanoverians from power. Assuming that Louis XIV still died on schedule in 1715 and Philippe of Orleans became Louis XV's regent.

I would say yes, if JFES surrendered ( maybe the Jacobites will try anyway but fail spectacularly, something like that might make James think twice ) the Tories could balance the power of the Whigs in government, as far as Bavaria is concerned certainly Otl HRE Joseph I wanted to punish it and annex it entirely to Austria if possible, but ultimately I think that one would still be enough partial annexation of the southern territory of the duchy ( i.e. what was enough for the Habsburgs for a direct connection between the archduchy and their possessions in Swabia )

 

[Nuraghe]

I would say yes, if JFES surrendered ( maybe the Jacobites will try anyway but fail spectacularly, something like that might make James think twice ) the Tories could balance the power of the Whigs in government, as far as Bavaria is concerned certainly Otl HRE Joseph I wanted to punish it and annex it entirely to Austria if possible, but ultimately I think that one would still be enough partial annexation of the southern territory of the duchy ( i.e. what was enough for the Habsburgs for a direct connection between the archduchy and their possessions in Swabia )

I can suggest two interesting books on the subject, which could be useful for understanding Hanover, Prussia and HRE government systems "The Hanover dimension in British history, 1714–1837" by Brendan Simms and then "Great Britain, Hanover and the Protestant interest, 1688-1756 " by Andrew C. Thompson

 

[Georg von Frundsberg]

...he can obtain English and Welf support ( the Estes are the cadet branch of the Guelph dynasty, headed Hanoverians ) to inherit the maternal lands ( aka Modena and perhaps by marrying Isabella Farnese also Parma )...

The ruler of Moden at that time was Rinaldo d'Este, and his son Frencesco was born in 1698. As far as I know, the Este family was not facing any succession crisis so how could the Hanover justify confiscating their land to bribe the Stuarts? They would need to be compensated at least...

But your idea has inspired me. Is it possible, let's say, in exchange for the Stuarts relinquishing their claims to the English crown, James Francis Edward is appointed the Grand Master of the Hospitallers in Malta after the death/retirement of the incumbent? I haven't researched much into that yet, but is it "doable"?

On second thought, if the Hanvoerians' hold onto power was shaky enough, then why would the Stuarts renounce their claims?

I'm curious what Frederick William's relationship with Parliament will look like ITTL, and whether he'll sympathize with the Whigs or the Tories.

This brings us to the question of whether Frederick William would be crowned King of Great Britain. He was after all, already the King in Prussia so would he be given another royal title? The parliament would also be rightfully concerned about excessive "Prussian-meddling" from Frederick William and the influence he posed to Queen Sophia Dorothea.