The General Barca

[godofcoc]

It does not matter how godlike uber wheraboo your General is, the Einsatzgruppen will follow. You cannot countermand the Führerprinzip. Anyway, if you have a German Hannibal, where exactly is your Soviet Scipio?

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There is no soviet Scipio. Soviets are going to lose and lose and lose, they are not gonna win. The best soviet general just got put in the dust. Soviets are not the winners of the story, form the next chapter I will use the history book format like fire and blood or the Romulus Augustus (here on AH). This is not a repeat of the second Punic wars, it is just showing what would have happened if the two meat grinders at Stalingard and Leningrad never started and soviets kept losing men and battles like they were losing in 1941.

This is just insert of the best tactician into the Second World War.

 

[godofcoc]

No, they weren't. Soviets didn't defend Stalingrad by fighting in Stalingrad using sewers or whatever else. Soviet presence in Stalingrad proper was utterly irrelevant by the middle of October and Germans already controlled almost the entire city. Even if you assume that they will take all of it via whatever means it will not achieve them victory.

No amount of magic tricks or fancy tactics can help Germans to win there.

The Germans were encircled in the city by the end of the October. He broke that encircling, a decent commander who scouted the enemy could have done that. Hell the German commander at Stalingard tried doing that but he was just a week too late.

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

Soviet troops in the south have roughly two armies, both were in Stalingard. One was defending Stalingard and the other was moving the encircle the German army in1941. In OTL, they were successful. Here Erich caught them in them in the middle of the movement, dislodge the defender and attack a relatively undefended portion of the soviet counter offensive force (it is highly likely they would have left some gaps in the offensive, as the soviet army was hideous incompetent in 1941).

Because he is able to dislodge them and destroy the counter offensive force, he is able to destroy the Russian armies completely.

You mean that German troops which are exhausted after the initial stages of the war (see the Battle of Moscow) and are having severe supply issues suddenly manage to defeat the Soviets using a gap which (if it had existed) they were unable to use OTL? Also Soviet leadership end of 1941 wasn't the same as the one at the beginning of Barbarossa (also at Barbarossa the Germans had a numerical and technological advantage) the leadership was okay as seen by the fact that they managed to regroup, win the Battle of Moscow and launch a counter-offensive which secured the city. Also the German leadership wasn't perfect either.

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

There is no soviet Scipio. Soviets are going to lose and lose and lose, they are not gonna win. The best soviet general just got put in the dust. Soviets are not the winners of the story, form the next chapter I will use the history book format like fire and blood or the Romulus Augustus (here on AH). This is not a repeat of the second Punic wars, it is just showing what would have happened if the two meat grinders at Stalingard and Leningrad never started and soviets kept losing men and battles like they were losing in 1941.

This is just insert of the best tactician into the Second World War.

No tactician can do magic, the meat grinders of Leningrad and Stalingrad wouldn't be prevented by a more competent leadership, they simply couldn't defeat the Soviets once the element of surprise and the initiative went away

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

The Germans were encircled in the city by the end of the October. He broke that encircling, a decent commander who scouted the enemy could have done that. Hell the German commander at Stalingrad tried doing that but he was just a week too late.

Had he prevented the encirclement that doesn't mean that he destroys the enemy armies, the best such a general could do is prevent the encirclement (with heavy casualties on both side, the Battle isn't one-sided) and take out the 1k troops or so that are defending Stalingrad

 

[godofcoc]

No tactician can do magic, the meat grinders of Leningrad and Stalingrad wouldn't be prevented by a more competent leadership, they simply couldn't defeat the Soviets once the element of surprise and the initiative went away

I have in detail told how he defeated the force that was moving to encircle him. And yes, Leningrad can be avoided as the guy who actually actually saved the soviets Georgy Zhukov was sent to lead the army against the Germans to retake Stalingard instead. He died at the second battle of Stalingard.

Yes, with more competent leadership Germans would have avoid the meat grinder of Stalingard and Leningrad. Even more so when the enemy’s leadership is more incompetent than in the OTL. He has just not prevented encirclement, he caught the enemy in the middle of it and used that opportunity to defeat him. That much is very probable, as Erich knew about the encirclement from soviet collaborators.

 

[godofcoc]

H

You mean that German troops which are exhausted after the initial stages of the war (see the Battle of Moscow) and are having severe supply issues suddenly manage to defeat the Soviets using a gap which (if it had existed) they were unable to use OTL? Also Soviet leadership end of 1941 wasn't the same as the one at the beginning of Barbarossa (also at Barbarossa the Germans had a numerical and technological advantage) the leadership was okay as seen by the fact that they managed to regroup, win the Battle of Moscow and launch a counter-offensive which secured the city. Also the German leadership wasn't perfect either.

The entire premise of this story is that what if German generals were perfect. You can’t question the very basic premise of the story and still expect to enjoy it. That’s like watching Game of thrones and saying dragons can’t exist.

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

H

The entire premise of this story is that what if German generals were perfect. You can’t question the very basic premise of the story and still expect to enjoy it. That’s like watching Game of thrones and saying dragons can’t exist.

He might be perfect but the rest of the Nazi leadership won't be and will try to prevent him from succeeding too much as they want the glory and the rewards for themselves.
You can make a show about this alternative Hannibal but don't expect me to believe it's realistic

I have in detail told how he defeated the force that was moving to encircle him. And yes, Leningrad can be avoided as the guy who actually actually saved the soviets Georgy Zhukov was sent to lead the army against the Germans to retake Stalingard instead. He died at the second battle of Stalingard.

Yes, with more competent leadership Germans would have avoid the meat grinder of Stalingard and Leningrad. Even more so when the enemy’s leadership is more incompetent than in the OTL. He has just not prevented encirclement, he caught the enemy in the middle of it and used that opportunity to defeat him. That much is very probable, as Erich knew about the encirclement from soviet collaborators.

Zhukov isn't the only competent general in the entire Soviet Union, believe me if there wasn't Zhukov they would've found someone to replace him, maybe they would lose a few more men in the meantime.
You can't really speed up the Battle for Leningrad other than throwing men and resources (which the Germans don't have) in the vain hope that maybe they manage to pierce trough.
And as I've already said preventing the encirclement doesn't mean that you destroy the enemy army as the best way to prevent it OTL was to retreat from Stalingrad, even if somehow you stop the Soviets they would just take a few thousand casualties and retreat, they wouldn't throw 180k troops at once without thinking and even in the impossible timeline where they do the Soviets have many other armies to throw in the fight, Germans would have to receive a miracle every week to arrive until the Caucasus.

 

[Crueldwarf]

The Germans were encircled in the city by the end of the October. He broke that encircling, a decent commander who scouted the enemy could have done that. Hell the German commander at Stalingard tried doing that but he was just a week too late.

It is some sort of really serious alternative history going on there. So I probably will leave it at that.

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

obviously I am not smart enough of know how Erich would defeat the soviets but just assume that he does. By the way, Soviets were launching human waves attack to figure out German defenses. It was a very common soviet and Chinese tactic. Also this is happening in February of 1942, Stalin thought that the winter would give the advantage to the Russians.

Human waves to test the defenses, they weren't throwing all of their army at this after the first and second wave are destroyed the Soviets would understand that it's pointless, they aren't idiots you know

 

[godofcoc]

He might be perfect but the rest of the Nazi leadership won't be and will try to prevent him from succeeding too much as they want the glory and the rewards for themselves.
You can make a show about this alternative Hannibal but don't expect me to believe it's realistic

Zhukov isn't the only competent general in the entire Soviet Union, believe me if there wasn't Zhukov they would've found someone to replace him, maybe they would lose a few more men in the meantime.
You can't really speed up the Battle for Leningrad other than throwing men and resources (which the Germans don't have) in the vain hope that maybe they manage to pierce trough.
And as I've already said preventing the encirclement doesn't mean that you destroy the enemy army as the best way to prevent it OTL was to retreat from Stalingrad, even if somehow you stop the Soviets they would just take a few thousand casualties and retreat, they wouldn't throw 180k troops at once without thinking and even in the impossible timeline where they do the Soviets have many other armies to throw in the fight, Germans would have to receive a miracle every week to arrive until the Caucasus

Exactly I want to explore that.

 

[godofcoc]

Human waves to test the defenses, they weren't throwing all of their army at this after the first and second wave are destroyed the Soviets would understand that it's pointless, they aren't idiots you know

Exactly, they used the human wave, human waves were working, within a single day they had a complete idea of German defenses. If they had lost 15,000 men for a complete understanding of enemy’s defenses. That a worthy trade,

Then before they could utilise that, Erich fell upon them and played something (I am not smart enough to understand that) that destroyed their rear.

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

Exactly, they used the human wave, human waves were working, within a single day they had a complete idea of German defenses. If they had lost 15,000 men for a complete understanding of enemy’s defenses. That a worthy trade,

Then before they could utilise that, Erich fell upon them and played something (I am not smart enough to understand that) that destroyed their rear.

The scenario where the Soviets are crushed isn't really realistic but whatever.

 

[godofcoc]

The scenario where the Soviets are crushed isn't really realistic but whatever.

If the scenario was realistic I wouldn’t need plot armour.

 

[EasternRomanEmpire]

If the scenario was realistic I wouldn’t need plot armour.

Ok

 

[Garrison]

If the scenario was realistic I wouldn’t need plot armour.

Frankly if you have no intention of embracing any realism and are going to invoke plot armour to justify the unworkable and wildly inaccurate ideas you've put forward perhaps this would be better suited to the writers forum. Post-1900 is a forum where feedback and critique based on the realities of WW2 is to be expected and is usually being sought to help improve a scenario, which you are clearly not interested in.

 

[Triune Kingdom]

Is there anything Notzi General Barca can not do?

 

[godofcoc]

Is there anything Notzi General Barca can not do?

Well, was there anything that Hannibal couldn’t have done?

 

[godofcoc]

Frankly if you have no intention of embracing any realism and are going to invoke plot armour to justify the unworkable and wildly inaccurate ideas you've put forward perhaps this would be better suited to the writers forum. Post-1900 is a forum where feedback and critique based on the realities of WW2 is to be expected and is usually being sought to help improve a scenario, which you are clearly not interested in.

You can’t challenge the very premise of my story and say that’s valid criticism. The basic premise is Germans having history’s greatest general in their camp.

 

[Triune Kingdom]

Well, was there anything that Hannibal couldn’t have done?

Win?