Dragos Cel Mare
Banned
Ah.
Well, I like the Alevis; hopefully, they'll last until the Alternate!Age of Enlightenment, where they can perhaps gain more rights.
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Ah.
Well, I like the Alevis; hopefully, they'll last until the Alternate!Age of Enlightenment, where they can perhaps gain more rights.
Dragos Cel Mare
Banned
Hmm, the Alevis today are a sect discriminated against by mainstream Sunnis, with some difference even from other Shias. Wouldn't that make them useful to Byzantium, and Byzantium useful to them?
32
Deleted member 67076
Maybe. We'll know when we get there.
Anyways, here's the map of 1400. Warning, its big.
Couple of things worth mentioning:
-Montferrat was inherited by Savoy
-Bulgaria is big and striking north, steadily transforming into a gunpowder empire
-I'm actually unsure about Milan; I don't know if they'd still go into a Gian Visconti expansion phase, but I can't rule an attempt like that out. What do you guys think should happen?
-Venice: Closed off by Genoa, I see Venice re-orienting itself into the Italian hinterland much earlier. That doesn't mean they dont focus on trade and the ocean, but the shock of losing the Black Sea, Aegean, and many of their waystations means they'll be re-tooling their strategies. Probably would mean cool things for the arsenal.
The Timurids have conquered lower Egypt and Syria?Wrll,doesn't matter,they will come crumbling down sooner or later.
Rome and Karaman have disputed territory between them?
Rome and Karaman have disputed territory between them?
Deleted member 67076
Right now its just a bunch of armies conquering as much as they can; there's no demarcation of where the states end.
Nah, they became one in 1416. Dunno if the county would get its upgrade seeing as they got it personally from the HRE (and independence)
Can't wait to see what happens when the Timurids implode. Hopefully it's going to be the most brutal free for all, with Rhomania in position to take advantage.
Deleted member 67076
Gracias all!
>Holy
>Roman
>Empire
I'll admit I was tempted to include Central Europe just so I could put:
>Holy
>Roman
>Empire
Achaemenid borders are best borders.
No different than OTL's mess.
Lolnope. Sorry Dude, this is the age where the nomad ruling class is dying.
Caesar Biden
Banned
I'm sure Sov's just taking a break. Thanks for bumping though, I missed the map
.Interesting map. How big is the Turkish minority inside of Rome? Is it significant near former Aydin and inland, or is it practically non-existent due to an influx of Greeks and the assimilation of any Turks? I'd imagine there's still a small group of rich Turks who were formerly nobles whatever the answer, but considering they were already getting hellenized they might not even identify that way much longer.
Deleted member 67076
Yo. I was wondering when someone would notice I haven't been updating in a good while.
Yep, I essentially on vacation visiting family so haven't had too much time to sit down and write.I'm sure Sov's just taking a break. Thanks for bumping though, I missed the map
Inside? At best 2-4 hundred thousand. This is including those that have been Hellenized to varying degrees but still identify as Turkish. Western Anatolia was still overwhelmingly Greek well into the Ottoman period (heck even in the Ottoman Census of 1914 Anatolia was around ~15% Greek, the vast majority clustered around the coasts). Here of course, that's still going to be the same.
Can't give an exact number because population numbers were in a huge state of flux throughout the Eastern Med following the Black Death and its difficult to get exact estimates. Ive heard Anatolia would at this time have around 5 million people (high estimate) and 2 million (low estimate). The % of people who would identify as Turkish is... debatable. Most of the ruling elites certainly would have.
Now, most of Rome's Turkish minority would be clustered closer to the Central Anatolian Region but there's a couple of exceptions- and that is Smyrna and the surrounding suburbs (Aydinid seat of power) and the area around Bursa. Lots of nomads were brought by Osman and they'd be a pain in the ass to just expel. Instead it'd be cheaper to just swarm them with settlers and hope to assimilate them but that takes time.
Regarding those nobles and other Hellenized ones, you're half right. One the one hand the influence of Rome would see to it that they wouldn't identify too much with their nomadic cousins out in Eastern Anatolia or the more traditional ones in Central Anatolia. But I doubt they'd call themselves Greek- they'd likely still be Muslim, speak Turkish and have a worldview partially influenced from the Arabo-Turkish tradition that they begin to blend in with Urban Greek culture. With these you have very potent markers of ethnographic description to set themselves apart from the Greeks and both the Central Anatolian Turks.
I'd say that the Byzantine empire is very likely hellenising any ethnic Turks and very likely trying to christianise them too as they would not want a sizable muslim minority within their borders for security reasons at the very least.
That should be Prusa.
It would be good if the Byzantine empire can successfully take over the disputed territories in Asia Minor as that would dramatically increase the size of the empire and its tax-base which would put it in the position to take over the beylik of Candar and then reconnect with Trebizond officially rejoining to the empire and controlling the southern coast of the Black sea.
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33
Deleted member 67076
Oh right! I forgot about that.
But well, that puts you in Timur's lane. (See what I did there?
I'll show myself out) Any who, just wanted to drop by and say that I'm not dead and still writing. In fact, take this tiny teaser as a sign that I'm not back.
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As the Monster of the East approached north, his appetite barely stated even with the conquest of Egypt, let us look for a moment and analyze the situation of our protagonists. In this brief moment following the aftermath of Germiyan's fall, we are at the moment of what seems like immense victory. The first steps in reclaiming the Cappadocian heartlands had been secured; in a single war, Rome has come close to doubling her territory with little loss on her part. The expanded territory had come with expanded wealth and prestige as Rome imposed her hegemony over the Pontic coast and central Anatolia.
Internally, the conquests had fueled a renewed growth of the economy. But more importantly, they provided a relief to the drastic and unpopular austerity while still managing to provide just enough deal with the debt. (God bless plunder economies) You could be mistaken for thinking this would usher in an era of peace and dominance for the empire, but this was tiny gilded age that masked the coming turmoil. Domestically things looked good, but even the foreign situation was optimistic: The Pontic coast had returned to Roman Hegemony; the Lombardian snake was mollified with large and regular payments; Bulgaria had been occupied once more as the Bolyars needed to be reminded what it means to be Tsar; relations were warming up with Naples after half a century of coldness; the Papacy was split; and the expected new rival in Karaman was uncharacteristically warm to the Romans, being content in conquering Germiyan than renewing the eternal conflict of Turk and Greek.
This brief snapshot of joy and pride was utterly smashed when news reached that a Timurid army had been spotted making its way north on the outskirts of Antioch in 1403. The news of the stunning fall of Egypt was not lost on anyone, nor of Timur’s dream of restarting the Mongol Empire. Timur was here, he was close, and more importantly- he won.
And so, the empire reluctantly prepared for war.
Timur’s army arrived in Anatolia in the summer of 1404, but to little activity. The warlord had been content with wintering and preparing in Syria before going for an all out assault. Biding his time until the opportune moment revealed itself. This would be in March of 1405 when a border skirmish between Timurid cavalrymen and Anatolian raiders of the Beylik of Eretna provided the justification for a declaration of war. Late April would see the fated offensive beginning. Like a knife through hot butter, the Timurids carved a swath in Anatolia, annihilating all resistance with little challenge on his part. Despite the best efforts, a coalition of Eastern Beyliks and other various warlords were smashed.
Well, more like annihilated. The cities were sacked, the artisans deported, the herds slaughtered to feed Timur’s army, and of course, the citizens either killed or deported. Stories of horror and turmoil filtered west the terrified masses of non-Timurid Anatolia. This was followed by letters to the governments of whatever state remained, its content straightforward. Like the Mongols of old, Timur was giving them a choice: Submission or death.
As the imperial government scrambled whatever soldiers it could muster to the borderlands, Constantinople received the messenger of Timur and memories of the Mongols crept again. Fear had become the prevailing mood where there had been optimism and joy. Rome was not ignorant of news that a mighty warlord had managed to effortlessly conquer everything from Delhi to Tripoli- far from it. The nature of a state in which its bread and butter was obtained from trade meant that the international situation was of vital concern to Constantinople. But that's beside the point now.
The Empire faced its next existential crisis, a crucial fact she knew all too well. The past centuries had seen amazing victories- but victories that had been gained through cunning, not with brute force. She had been a regional power at best and had been, for better or worse used to the role of reacting rather than creating events.
Which leads back to the current situation: Romania was faced with a difficult situation. She could A) Swallow a very bitter pill and be at the mercy of Timur or B) Face annihilation at the hands of the horde like so many others.
Which would it be?
Constantine XI had always been a proud man, but he was a sane one. Therefore, it would come as little surprise (except to every observer in Europe who expected that Rome would fall next) when he had sent back to the Timurids a note of submission. This would be unpopular, and he might not even survive the fallout (even at their lowest, Rome was always prideful), but at least his empire would have the chance to live another day.
And if they play their cards right, rise to heights unseen in centuries when Timur dies and his empire starts to break up.
Egypt -- and Cairo -- sacked? This is a brutal loss for the Sunnah; al-Azhar is destroyed and Egypt's wealth is probably back in Samarqand, waiting to be slowly pissed away once Timur dies.
And considering how he treated the Nestorians, I doubt he was any better to the Christians of Syria, the Levant and Egypt... brutal shit.
And smart of the Romans to submit -- as tributaries, I presume?
And considering how he treated the Nestorians, I doubt he was any better to the Christians of Syria, the Levant and Egypt... brutal shit.
And smart of the Romans to submit -- as tributaries, I presume?
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