Renovation: An Eastern Roman Timeline

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I think we suggested last time that John should marry the daughter of the King of Hungary to keep the Bulgarians from backstabbing the Romans and to discourage the Serbians from going revanchist.

The other suggestion was for a double marriage alliance with the Bulgarians,but that would need approval from the religious authorities.
 
Yo, back on this.

Ok so far:

-Constantine XI is 39 as of 1400.
-3 other surviving siblings, all of them males. One Manuel, one Michael, and one Andreas.
-Huh, I actually forgot to figure out who's his mother. That's embarrassing. Suggestions anyone?
-Married to a Savoyard which is part of a new policy of increasing ties with the Savoy as a potential counter to Genoa.
-2 kids, a daughter and a son in that order.


True on all accounts. Hmm, I foresee the conquest of Anatolia being much like Russia's conquest of Siberia.

minor greek noblewoman? That might work.
 
Who's to say we have to know who it is, plenty of history around this time didn't remember the mothers identity. I agree with Soverihn's earlier points against a powerful alliance this time with Bulgaria, Hungary, or Naples - John would have been wary about making too many commitments beyond his borders.

Someone connected to the Zealot movement could help the reintegration after crushing the rebellion. Or an Athenian member of the House of Barcelona for the same reasons. is it too early for it to be an Aydinid woman to assuage the Turkified subjects?
 
Who's to say we have to know who it is, plenty of history around this time didn't remember the mothers identity. I agree with Soverihn's earlier points against a powerful alliance this time with Bulgaria, Hungary, or Naples - John would have been wary about making too many commitments beyond his borders.

Someone connected to the Zealot movement could help the reintegration after crushing the rebellion. Or an Athenian member of the House of Barcelona for the same reasons. is it too early for it to be an Aydinid woman to assuage the Turkified subjects?
If John doesn't want entanglements then marrying a Rurikid would be in his best interests,since it would undoubtedly bring a large dowry.As for the Zealot movement,they are too low ranked to marry for an emperor,it's a commoner movement.Generally,the identity of the mother is only unknown either if the new emperor wasn't born into the imperial family and took the throne,from a cadet branch or was born to an emperor who seized the throne and his mother died before his father took the throne.
 
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If John doesn't want entanglements then marrying a Rurikid would be in his best interests,since it would undoubtedly bring a large dowry.As for the Zealot movement,they are too low ranked to marry for an emperor,it's a commoner movement.Generally,the identity of the mother is only unknown either if the new emperor wasn't born into the imperial family and took the throne,from a cadet branch or was born to an emperor who seized the throne and his mother died before his father took the throne.
Rurikids would be more plausible as the Russians were at this time attempting to increase their contact and trade volume south, in addition to the volume of inter church contact. Also fits in nicely with ideas I have.

So yeah, Rurikid princess it is.
 
You know, Germiyan was actually awesome, for the brief time it existed.

Gloried indeed; a moonshot that nearly paid off. May Allah grant them entry to the highest gardens of paradise.

Question: Will there still be Alevis in the timeline?

Undoubtedly, a mercantile Rome won't be as taken to reestablishing the Church in Asia Minor when it could use that money to stimulate the economy. Alevism may incorporate more elements of taqiyyah and Rhoman syncretism, and be less widespread in the present day. The conditions that led it to become entrenched in Anatolia aren't changing however there will be different pressures for Turks closer to Rhome. Maybe surviving only in the very interior rather than much of the south today.

I'm happy to be wrong but when the Empire has just reverted to confiscating Church wealth again... unless it plans for that to be a renewable resource.
A certain horseman will put any thoughts of that to pasture for at least a hundred years...
 
Well, it is a good thing that Germiyan felt as well, always if a Timurid state will not rise in Anatolia... Yet Rhomania was still in a better position than the Ottomans after the Timurid invasion, so the Asian possessions, at least the not coastal ones, are not a great loss in the end...

I think honestly this is the usual phase of a Byzantine TL where the main enemies of the Empire rather than the Turks are called Bulgaria, Serbia, and Italian merchant republics...
 

Deleted member 67076

Oh, all right.

Hmm, when will Perspective Painting develop?
I honestly dunno. Never been big on art history.

If someone could inform me how the development of this alternate Renaissance will go. On the one hand there's been an earlier brain drain as many aristocrats fled the Second Palaiologoi Civil War bringing with them their skills, but on the other hand the massive, increase in wealth of Romania- that isn't mired in inequality that's to the earlier reforms of the state- is going to create a boom in artworks that will surpass the OTL Palaiogian Renaissance.

Question: Will there still be Alevis in the timeline?
I'd have to look into that.
You know, Germiyan was actually awesome, for the brief time it existed.

Gloried indeed; a moonshot that nearly paid off. May Allah grant them entry to the highest gardens of paradise.
Well said.

I'm actually a bit upset that I had to rip them apart truth be told as an urban based Turkish beylik is something that to my knowledge hasn't been done. Its either based on big landed estates, yeomen farmers or horse nomads running things.

Undoubtedly, a mercantile Rome won't be as taken to reestablishing the Church in Asia Minor when it could use that money to stimulate the economy. Alevism may incorporate more elements of taqiyyah and Rhoman syncretism, and be less widespread in the present day. The conditions that led it to become entrenched in Anatolia aren't changing however there will be different pressures for Turks closer to Rhome. Maybe surviving only in the very interior rather than much of the south today.
Ooh, good points. These are going to put a damper on assimilation attempts, but eh, you can't win them all.

I'm happy to be wrong but when the Empire has just reverted to confiscating Church wealth again... unless it plans for that to be a renewable resource.
A certain horseman will put any thoughts of that to pasture for at least a hundred years...
I'm sorry but could you be a bit clearer here? I'm not really understanding this sentence. :eek:
Well, it is a good thing that Germiyan felt as well, always if a Timurid state will not rise in Anatolia... Yet Rhomania was still in a better position than the Ottomans after the Timurid invasion, so the Asian possessions, at least the not coastal ones, are not a great loss in the end...
No Timurid state in Anatolia, but there'll be one somewhere around the neighborhood...

Well, actually I'd still think any loss in Anatolia would be a bit of a big loss. There's a lot of money to be made there, and unlike the Ottomans they have about 40% the tax base the Ottomans did in the Balkans by virtue of not controlling the territory the Ottomans did.

I think honestly this is the usual phase of a Byzantine TL where the main enemies of the Empire rather than the Turks are called Bulgaria, Serbia, and Italian merchant republics...
Well not exactly. :p

Serbia and Venice are out of the game for the foreseeable future. Bulgaria has easier targets to go after first (Serbia, Wallachia, Moldova, the remnants of the Golden Horde and if they play their cards right Hungary) before they decide to betray a pretty good alliance and strike down for the coast. Gunpowder Empires are gonna act like Gunpowder Empires after all.;)

Don't worry though, ya'll still going to see a pretty big Rogues Gallery. We got Genoa, Naples [1], Aragon, the Papacy, whatever pops up in the aftermath of the Timurids in Anatolia and maybe Persia. Even if the latter isn't an active enemy they'd still be a massive threat.

[1] This time with Provence; maybe with Sicily and bits of the Marches if they get lucky, which I think they might. Country has been relatively peaceful on paper, but here they don't have Ladislau. Ugh, someone needs to help me with this please. I want to strengthen South Italy but I'm unsure if that's plausible.
 
I'm sorry but could you be a bit clearer here? I'm not really understanding this sentence. :eek:

He means, when the Empire has started confiscating Church wealth again, it would have more trouble getting said Church to assimilate the Alevis because the Church would have less resources. Unless of course, the Byzies want the Church to have more money, and more money means more converts.

But Timur would put paid to such concerns for a century.
 
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He means, when the Empire has started confiscating Church wealth again, it would have more trouble getting said Church to assimilate the Alevis because the Church would have less resources. Unless of course, the Byzies want the Church to have more money, and more money means more converts.

But Timur would put paid to such concerns for a century.

For the time being? No, they wouldn't. If and when the Romans are at Syria and Central Anatolia, then that's a different story.
 
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