Lands of Bronze and Fire - An American Domestication Timeline, Take Two

[othyrsyde]

Looking very good. The greater contact between TTL’s Mesoamerica and Southwestern Native cultures is going to produce a really interesting mix in the long term. It makes me wonder if stable overland routes will develop across the plains to the Mississippians too. Uurungs and the superior maize from Mesoamerica will keep the societies there from having their long term collapse, plus allowing them to develop further and reach the heights and complexity of their southern cousins.

You have any plans how this will effect more northerly climes, and California?

Also nice to see one of my peeps (Mixtecs) represented.

 

[Workable Goblin]

Looking very good. The greater contact between TTL’s Mesoamerica and Southwestern Native cultures is going to produce a really interesting mix in the long term. It makes me wonder if stable overland routes will develop across the plains to the Mississippians too. Uurungs and the superior maize from Mesoamerica will keep the societies there from having their long term collapse, plus allowing them to develop further and reach the heights and complexity of their southern cousins.

Obviously I'm not Huehuecoyotl, but the mention of "riding uurung out in the plains" makes me think it's quite likely, an American Silk Road...Parrot Road? Weren't parrot feathers a major status trade good, like silk in Eurasia?

You have any plans how this will effect more northerly climes, and California?

I'm interested in this as well (also the effects on Texas, particularly the coastal areas, as I live there); given that the location of domestication is relatively close to California, and how fertile it is reputed to be, I imagine there would be significant early effects.

 

[TheScottishMongol]

Obviously I'm not Huehuecoyotl, but the mention of "riding uurung out in the plains" makes me think it's quite likely, an American Silk Road...Parrot Road? Weren't parrot feathers a major status trade good, like silk in Eurasia?

As always in history, keep your eyes on the plains nomads.

 

[Huehuecoyotl]

Looking very good. The greater contact between TTL’s Mesoamerica and Southwestern Native cultures is going to produce a really interesting mix in the long term. It makes me wonder if stable overland routes will develop across the plains to the Mississippians too. Uurungs and the superior maize from Mesoamerica will keep the societies there from having their long term collapse, plus allowing them to develop further and reach the heights and complexity of their southern cousins.

Yes, exactly. The Mississippi basin will become a boom-area in population some centuries down the road. Like we see IOTL, huge cities enjoying vast areas of cultural dominion are going to be the main theme, and the lack of geographical obstacles up and down its length is going to encourage the development of a continuous area of general political and cultural unity.

Sound familiar?

You have any plans how this will effect more northerly climes, and California?

Yup, I have general plans in motion for just about every area of the continent. There's going to be a steady diffusion of ideas and tech northward, along rivers and mountain ranges, which will be adopted (and adapted) by different peoples at different paces. Plus their own autonomous developments, of course. Not sure how much I want to give away as of yet.

As for California, looking at maps like these gave me a notion or two...

Also nice to see one of my peeps (Mixtecs) represented.

Yup! I was encouraged to offer them some 'airtime' (as it were) after reading The Mixtecs of Oaxaca (Spores & Balkansky) when it was published last year. A fascinating people, with shamefully little focus on them on this site!

Obviously I'm not Huehuecoyotl, but the mention of "riding uurung out in the plains" makes me think it's quite likely, an American Silk Road...Parrot Road? Weren't parrot feathers a major status trade good, like silk in Eurasia?

That they were, at least in the Southwest. Turquoise and copper are the primary Petsiroan exports as of the current time, while obsidian, parrots and feathers, and cacao are greatly prized exports from Nuuyoo. This trade will refine over time, as will the products traded, but this will be the basis around which the greater trade network of the continent will develop.

The trade posts in the Tuuwaya, of course, will profit greatly from all this, as we'll see some updates down the road explore.

I'm interested in this as well (also the effects on Texas, particularly the coastal areas, as I live there); given that the location of domestication is relatively close to California, and how fertile it is reputed to be, I imagine there would be significant early effects.

Without revealing too much, *Texas will be caught between two different worlds, and shaped by both. It will also be the site of a crucial discovery that will shape the sciences of Columbia, and later on, the world.

As always in history, keep your eyes on the plains nomads.

Wise man.

 

[Unknown]

Waiting for the next update...

Workable Goblin, I live in coastal Texas, too; Corpus Christi, to be exact.

 

[Huehuecoyotl]

The next update will be along sometime soon. It mostly concerns some aspects of the aftermath of the end-Formative epidemics, and their impact on the culture of the survivors. In the meantime, I found another picture of the star of the show, H. macrocephala. It handily shows off its size in relation to modern man and what I presume to be the vicuña and South American llama, as well as offering a good idea of how it may have looked in life.

 

[Statesman]

The idea seemed so simple, but it's shaping up to be very cool. Subscribed all the way. Was there any particular inspiration for the TL??

 

[Huehuecoyotl]

Indeed, there actually was. I was leafing through The Aztecs, Maya, and Their Predecessors: Archaeology of Mesoamerica (Porter Weaver, 1993) and saw a picture of an artifact from a locality called Tequixquiac in the Valley of Mexico. It was the sacrum of what the book calls "an extinct llama", carved to resemble the face of an animal. That made me wonder about the extinct llamas of North America and their interactions with the continent's early humans, so a few days later I posted a discussion thread, and, well...

 

[Statesman]

Good things come in small packages?

 

[Huehuecoyotl]

Good things come in small packages?

Oh, absolutely.

 

[Statesman]

Have an ETA for next update, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Huehuecoyotl]

Have an ETA for next update, if you don't mind me asking?

Oh, probably within 48 hours. It's in narrative format, which usually means it takes me a bit longer than the pure info updates.

 

[Pururauka]

Any plans on touching on South America in the future?

 

[Huehuecoyotl]

Any plans on touching on South America in the future?

Yes. I expect to first treat with the continent between 700 and 800 CE, and it will be a very different place by the time that the Europeans arrive. Up til the 8th century or so there won't be appreciable differences there to OTL.

 

[Pururauka]

Yes. I expect to first treat with the continent between 700 and 800 BCE, and it will be a very different place by the time that the Europeans arrive. Up til the 8th century or so there won't be appreciable differences there to OTL.

Well, if the NA camelids make it there one way or another, it could impact things much, much earlier than 800 BC, especially with early city states on the coast (the oldest dating ~3500 BC.)

 

[Huehuecoyotl]

Made a typo in that last post; I'd meant to say 700 to 800 CE. Uurung are a bit large to make the transit until fairly late, I say.

 

[Pururauka]

Mmhh.

Any reason why it would take that long?

 

[Huehuecoyotl]

Mmhh.

Any reason why it would take that long?

I just figure that (being as they're fairly large animals not suited for travel by sea) it'd take some rather concerted measures to safely transport a breeding population from Mesoamerica to the Andes. It's at the named timeframe that maritime contact between North and South America becomes a regular thing, and thus when enterprising merchants will hazard the chance to sell the beasts down south for the first time.

 

[jycee]

Yup, I have general plans in motion for just about every area of the continent. There's going to be a steady diffusion of ideas and tech northward, along rivers and mountain ranges, which will be adopted (and adapted) by different peoples at different paces. Plus their own autonomous developments, of course. Not sure how much I want to give away as of yet.

As for California, looking at maps like these gave me a notion or two...

California is definitively interesting. It seems to have all the requirements for the development of civilization except suitable domesticates (in both flora and fauna). The moment uurungs and maize arrive, I'm counting on some interesting developments there.

The other cool thing is that without an OTL equivalent you will have freedom to build something almost completely from scratch.

I just figure that (being as they're fairly large animals not suited for travel by sea) it'd take some rather concerted measures to safely transport a breeding population from Mesoamerica to the Andes. It's at the named timeframe that maritime contact between North and South America becomes a regular thing, and thus when enterprising merchants will hazard the chance to sell the beasts down south for the first time.

And bring Alpacas and Llamas up north as well? Herding based tribes/civilizations would appreciated.

While the presence of the larger uurung in the Chaco and Pampas regions would definitively boost chances of an advance civilization surfacing there.

 

[Huehuecoyotl]

Petsiroò, the Bird Land, 1224 BCE​

The stink of death was gone now—for that the villagers were grateful. It was instead acrid smoke which wafted through the autumn air and stung their nostrils. So too the wails of the dying had been replaced by the wails of those who mourned them. It was here, atop the great, red hill of stone outside of town, where they had decided to gather, towering far above the pines below. Every one of the townspeople was in attendance—a hundred-odd of them standing by the pyre, three-hundred-odd burning atop it. The malaise had come south from the Bird City with the annual merchant caravans. Rumors had trickled through the area of a great ague which had overtaken much of the north country, but none of them were prepared for the oncoming tide of death. By the time they knew the evil the merchants had carried with them, it was too late.

The last generation had seen similar pain, similar dying, when the sweating plague had swept through the land. Many of the oldest of those who stood atop the hill that day—though there were not many left of venerable age—remembered the brothers and sisters, the parents and uncles whom they'd lost. This time had been worse—the coughing, the blood, the pain and the screaming. As if these alien evils were not enough, the sweating plague had returned and taken away some of those who'd begun to recover. The loss had been no worse.

The widow, leaning against her last son, wept for the memory of her husband. Once he had gone with the warbands to raid against the river pueblos of the east. He had always arrived home, grinning and ruddy-faced, aglow with victory. She could scarcely acknowledge that he had been stolen from her so cruelly.

The coppersmith, sullen, stared at his feet and contemplated his ruin. The loss of his old bat of a mother had been bad enough—as much as he'd yearned to be free of her harping, he found himself oddly missing it once the plague had taken her. But it was his apprentice he missed so sorely. The bright young lad had shown great promise, if not complete prodigy, and now all the time he had invested in training him meant nothing. With nobody to mind the kiln as he worked, and no obvious replacements, his future didn't look very bright. He wondered if this was all some sort of cruel joke.

The undertaker wasn't there. Once he'd gathered up the bodies, he'd been made to stand atop the pyre himself as it burned—the others feared that the evil may have remained on him.

The shepherd had perhaps the most reason to mourn. All his flock had wandered off in the chaos, or been stolen and eaten by desperate townsfolk and highwaymen. His brothers and sisters had been carried off just the same—felled by the plague or else scattered to the four winds. He had no more parents. And yet as the sky above began to weep, he did not. Gradually, drenched in the rain, the pyre cooled, and the boy was able to draw closer. Tremulously, he dipped his hands into the ash, ignoring the heat, and touched them to his face. Closing his eyes, he could almost imagine their hands on his face, reassuring, one last time.

The townspeople would linger out there for a long while, until long after the pyre had lost the last of its heat—covering their pox scars with those ashen hand-prints, and remembering.

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"As it is today that people often turn to their faith in times of uncertainty and pain, so it was in the past. The end of the kingdom of Tseroro more than ten centuries before Christ began an epoch of unpromising providence for the Columbian west and its blooming civilizations. But the huddled remnants saw hope in the desolation—nearly all of the holiest sites around Tseroro show signs of great funeral pyres in ages past, perhaps reflecting the constant yearning for a connection with the great beyond which has stuck with that region through the centuries. It is soon after that we first begin to find the tell-tale cultural signs of the Black Hand tradition, from which all later religions of the west of the continent would descend.

"Thus it is that a time of great dying would bring about, phoenix-like, a great birth..."

- Henry Harrison Joffrey, "Traditions of the Western Lands", 1788​