Well, a Sino-Japanese War ITTL would be fun. This time around China will do better and put an end to Japanese imperialism in Japan's version of Barbarossa prematurely.
Anyway, when's the next update?
Chiang Kai-Shek goes to Germany: An Axis China Timeline
- Thread starter CCA
- Start date
Well, a Sino-Japanese War ITTL would be fun. This time around China will do better and put an end to Japanese imperialism in Japan's version of Barbarossa prematurely.
Anyway, when's the next update?
The Nazis developed a complicated racial hierarchy; there were supposed to be plenty of ranks between purebred Aryan superdupermen and Jews/Gypsies/Slavs. So in this TL, Chinese officially rank pretty high up. Hey, Italians aren't Aryan either, but that didn't stop the alliance.
Didn't Asians Rank somewhere in between Non-Aryan Europeans and African?
Either way he could make an execption and go "Except the Chinese. they are the Decendents of the Mighty Aryan Race, while the other asians are....", you get the idea.
"Pride in one's own race - and that does not imply contempt for other races - is also a normal and healthy sentiment. I have never regarded the Chinese or the Japanese as being inferior to ourselves. They belong to ancient civilizations, and I admit freely that their past history is superior to our own. They have the right to be proud of their past, just as we have the right to be proud of the civilization to which we belong. Indeed, I believe the more steadfast the Chinese and the Japanese remain in their pride of race, the easier I shall find it to get on with them." - Hitler
So because of their history of greatness and dominating civilizations, Hitler did not regard Chinese and Japanese as inferior. The Koreans, Southeast Asians and Tibetans on the other hand... he would probably view them very differently given their history of Chinese suzerainity over them.
Himmler and a few others also saw Japanese and Chinese as similar to share "enough qualities with German-Nordic blood to warrant an alliance with them."
Hendryk
Banned
There's a problem with that: Qingdao is at that time under Japanese control. It is precisely because the Beiyang government failed to reclaim the place at Versailles that the May Fourth movement took place. In OTL it only reverts to Chinese rule in 1922. If the Nationalists try to forcibly take it from the Japanese before then, it may well result in a casus belli.
However, an alliance of convenience between the warlords and the Japanese is plausible.
That's exactly what happens - Chiang's troops get their collective asses handed back to them in front of Tsingdao/Qingdao.
As one of the resident Sinophiles - how is the plausability of the rest of it? Is anything I've done so far into or approaching ASB territory?
CCA said:
Isn't this a bit corny?
It seems like it is based on many Anime I have seen. Where the hero walks in to the room(china in this case) and because he is noticed by people around the room, and then joins the big team.My question earlier in the thread went, unanswered. How will the Russians advisers like Borodin or Blyukher react to this Germanized Chiang Kai Shek.
Isn't this a bit corny?
My question earlier in the thread went, unanswered. How will the Russians advisers like Borodin or Blyukher react to this Germanized Chiang Kai Shek.
It kinda is - but I think the setup explains it. Chiang, having reached the rank of Hauptmann in the German army is seen as a 'success story.' His letter denouncing the Beiyang government means that the Warlords have done their research on this Chiang character so they want to co-opt him.
You'll find that out later in the TL
But seriously - No one says that an early Kuomintang has to be anti-russian because they're pro-German. Indeed Russia, Germany and the KMT have in common being unpopular/pariah in many wetern democracies.
Without giving too much away, who says the Molotov-Ribentropp pact can't be the Molotov-Ribentropp-Jingwei Pact?
I hope I've addressed your concerns
Hendryk
Banned
My point was that they wouldn't even try. Sun knew the importance of staying in good terms with the Japanese, he used Japan as a back-up base of operations often enough when the going went tough in China. And he was aware that threatening their interests on the mainland this early would result in their backing up the warlords.
So far it's working, at least within the initial parameters. I'm still not sure about the concept of a friendship between Hitler and Jiang, especially if you intend that to improve Jiang's character. Personally, in order to have more efficient and less corrupt Nationalist rule in the 1930s, I would have removed Jiang altogether and put someone like, say, Li Zongren in his place.
You mean, of course, the Molotov-Ribbentrop-Wang pact.Without giving too much away, who says the Molotov-Ribentropp pact can't be the Molotov-Ribentropp-Jingwei Pact?
True, I'll keep that in mind when I write a v2 of this TL - of course it is Chiang leading this troop column - he may have no such experience in dealing with the Japanese. Also keep in mind that most of his soldiers are burning with revolutionary fervour (TM) and may just be stupid enough to try.
Thanks - well to be fair one of Chiang's key personality traits was his willingness to compromise with not so savoury elements (Big Eared Du, corrupt warlords and other corrupt systems) If you have a Chiang who is more 'ideological' (for lack of a better word) you get a more efficient and less corrupt Nationalist rule. To be fair on the man - he wasn't personally corrupt or incompetent - it's just that he didn't want to rock the boat excessively and he was too willing to cut deals. Also I might be reading the book wrong but it seems that OTL Chiang never actually had a combat command. Also, my TL's Chiang detests the warlords and has had his character tempered in the trenches of Ypres.
Hmm, yes - I'll keep the MRW thing in mind.
Germany had bigger influence in rl anyways and i dont think the soviets were there until after the revolution.