Vinland - Viable immigration opportunities

[Carp]

Maybe they acquire lumber in excess of what the archipelago produces by sailing west to Anticosti Island when the natives aren't hunting there.

They can really go wherever they want in the region. You've got white pine for masts, hard maple for keels, and juniper and spruce for decks, in multiple places throughout the Gulf of St. Lawrence; ship-building is not going to be an issue, provided they've got enough sheep with them to make sails.

For a warrior culture, the ideas you outline make sense to me. You would have a very hard time prosletizing the "turn the other cheek" version of Christianity to that group of folks.

While describing Norse colonists as a "warrior culture" might be a little too generous, it was certainly an honor culture and often a culture of violence, and I agree completely that "turn the other cheek" would be hard to swallow. We're talking about people among whom it was expected you would slay outright the man who called you a coward, or at least duel him, lest your passivity in the face of the accusation be taken as proof that you actually were a coward.

I think any "Thor-Jesus" is going to be a heroic, victorious figure emphasizing the salvation and eternal life of the loyal, virtuous, and honorable. The theme of Christ as a courageous warrior or chieftain, attended to by his loyal retainers, is already reflected in a number of Norse and Anglo-Saxon early Christian writings like the Dream of the Rood. His own crucifixion is a total victory over the greatest foe, Death itself, a victory which he sacrifices his own life to achieve. (And, as related in the Niðrstigningarsaga, even death can't stop him from kicking Satan's ass.)

Honestly, I'm having a lot of fun re-imagining the gospel stories rewritten in a "Norse-friendly" style.

 

[Driftless]

They can really go wherever they want in the region. You've got white pine for masts, hard maple for keels, and juniper and spruce for decks, in multiple places throughout the Gulf of St. Lawrence; ship-building is not going to be an issue, provided they've got enough sheep with them to make sails.



While describing Norse colonists as a "warrior culture" might be a little too generous, it was certainly an honor culture and often a culture of violence, and I agree completely that "turn the other cheek" would be hard to swallow. We're talking about people among whom it was expected you would slay outright the man who called you a coward, or at least duel him, lest your passivity in the face of the accusation be taken as proof that you actually were a coward.

I think any "Thor-Jesus" is going to be a heroic, victorious figure emphasizing the salvation and eternal life of the loyal, virtuous, and honorable. The theme of Christ as a courageous warrior or chieftain, attended to by his loyal retainers, is already reflected in a number of Norse and Anglo-Saxon early Christian writings like the Dream of the Rood. His own crucifixion is a total victory over the greatest foe, Death itself, a victory which he sacrifices his own life to achieve. (And, as related in the Niðrstigningarsaga, even death can't stop him from kicking Satan's ass.)

Honestly, I'm having a lot of fun re-imagining the gospel stories rewritten in a "Norse-friendly" style.

Amen Brother!

You are on a roll here. Now, start folding in some variantions on Eastern Woodland Indian beliefs & mythos and you're off into really un-charted waters.

 

[ennobee]

1. Vinland has fish, fishermen will have a wealthgasm once they hear of it...

OTL, Breton fishermen already made fishing expeditions to the Vjnland/Newfoundland coast. And so did Basque whalers. Supposedly they also set up layover camps on the shores on several occasions. Though mostly that was as far as they went: Some temporary camp to process their fish, replentish their supplies and do some repairs on the ship. And when all that was done they couldn't wait to return home asap.

So what would entice those fishermen and whalers to expand those camps into permanent settlements? Geography could be a factor: If there was only one good landing place in the area, you would want to settle it permanently before someone else does. Or may be you succeed into striking a friendship with the locals, good enough to in the short term make a layover at their place to trade provisions. In the long term some adventurous crewmen would stay behind and become a professional go-between or operate a bakery or lumber mill... Or just start a family with an equally adventurous native....

Another possibility would be a refugee colony of desperate people preferring the uncertainties of a land only known from tales to the uncertainties of the land they grew up in. Bretons could be fleeing the horrors of the 100-year war, or the plague... Basques could be fleeing Spanish persecution, or the inquisition. Irish could be fleeing English rule and Greenlanders - if they can find a ship to take them - the general misery that came with the little ice age and the arrival of the Inuit. Of course they DID have to get themselves a ship first.

 

[Driftless]

Or may be you succeed into striking a friendship with the locals, good enough to in the short term make a layover at their place to trade provisions. In the long term some adventurous crewmen would stay behind and become a professional go-between or operate a bakery or lumber mill... Or just start a family with an equally adventurous native....

As the much later Courer de Bois did in French Canada. Often not officially blessed by the French local authorities, they still served a very useful go-between cultural role.

 

[Deleted member 67076]

What about speeding up naval technology? Might that not make the journey much more economically viable?

Couldn't you get cross pollination from Arab ships made to sail in the Indian Ocean with the techniques used via the Vikings to get a better long distance sailing?

 

[Emperor RyRy]

OTL, Breton fishermen already made fishing expeditions to the Vjnland/Newfoundland coast. And so did Basque whalers. Supposedly they also set up layover camps on the shores on several occasions. Though mostly that was as far as they went: Some temporary camp to process their fish, replentish their supplies and do some repairs on the ship. And when all that was done they couldn't wait to return home asap.

So what would entice those fishermen and whalers to expand those camps into permanent settlements? Geography could be a factor: If there was only one good landing place in the area, you would want to settle it permanently before someone else does. Or may be you succeed into striking a friendship with the locals, good enough to in the short term make a layover at their place to trade provisions. In the long term some adventurous crewmen would stay behind and become a professional go-between or operate a bakery or lumber mill... Or just start a family with an equally adventurous native....

Another possibility would be a refugee colony of desperate people preferring the uncertainties of a land only known from tales to the uncertainties of the land they grew up in. Bretons could be fleeing the horrors of the 100-year war, or the plague... Basques could be fleeing Spanish persecution, or the inquisition. Irish could be fleeing English rule and Greenlanders - if they can find a ship to take them - the general misery that came with the little ice age and the arrival of the Inuit. Of course they DID have to get themselves a ship first.

The fact that people are actually living there might help them want to stay more permanently

Remember, this is after Vinland is around, and already slightly better off than IRL

 

[Bavarian Raven]

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?p=10850778#post10850778

So I have begun this TL in a thread of it's own. i hope you all enjoy.