Union and Liberty: An American TL

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Interesting map! What's the status of the Irish language ITTL? Is it spoken as a first language by significant numbers of Irish emigres, or do they already mostly speak English at the time they leave? If the emigres do speak Irish, are there any communities in the Americas where they continue to speak it, or do they mostly adopt the language of their new countries pretty quickly? (Apologies if this is covered elsewhere, as I'm still trying to catch up with this TL).
 
Interesting map! What's the status of the Irish language ITTL? Is it spoken as a first language by significant numbers of Irish emigres, or do they already mostly speak English at the time they leave? If the emigres do speak Irish, are there any communities in the Americas where they continue to speak it, or do they mostly adopt the language of their new countries pretty quickly? (Apologies if this is covered elsewhere, as I'm still trying to catch up with this TL).

I think Wilcox mentioned Irish was widely spoken in Canada at this point. I don't remember if he said it was as much as French or less. But Canadian Gaelic might survive ITTL.

Wilcox, a few questions: What is that landlocked country between Bolivia and Argentina? How can that even be independent. And why is Brazil doing so bad ITTL? I guess the monarchy won't last very long. Also dind't Cali annex Sonora by this point (and Rio Bravo Rep Chihuahua)?

I'll be looking forward to an update that explains developments oi South America and the Mexican states. I still can't wrap my mind on how Paraguay ends up annexing Uruguay and Rio Grandese. They are just too different from each other.
 
Good map! Just two questions:

- What's that country in the north of Argentina?
- When did Colombia and Venezuela unite? Or did they remain united, with only Ecuador seceding from Gran Colombia?
Thanks! The country north of Argentina is the Federal Republic of Tucuman. More on this will be explained in a later update.
Colombia and Venezuela reunited sometime in the 1850s IIRC, but I don't have an exact situation for their unification yet.

Interesting map! What's the status of the Irish language ITTL? Is it spoken as a first language by significant numbers of Irish emigres, or do they already mostly speak English at the time they leave? If the emigres do speak Irish, are there any communities in the Americas where they continue to speak it, or do they mostly adopt the language of their new countries pretty quickly? (Apologies if this is covered elsewhere, as I'm still trying to catch up with this TL).
Most of the emigrants from Ireland know English, but a lot still speak Irish Gaelic. The immigrants to the Spanish-speaking countries usually learn Spanish after a couple generations. In the United States and British North America though, they usually stay bilingual but use of Gaelic is declining in the United States during the 20th century. In BNA though, use of Irish and Scottish Gaelic is flourishing and by 1900 it has become one of the official languages of the colonial legislature, along with French and English. In Acadia Scottish Gaelic is more commonly heard than Irish Gaelic though.

I think Wilcox mentioned Irish was widely spoken in Canada at this point. I don't remember if he said it was as much as French or less. But Canadian Gaelic might survive ITTL.

Wilcox, a few questions: What is that landlocked country between Bolivia and Argentina? How can that even be independent. And why is Brazil doing so bad ITTL? I guess the monarchy won't last very long. Also dind't Cali annex Sonora by this point (and Rio Bravo Rep Chihuahua)?
Brazil isn't necessarily doing badly. I haven't decided on the borders of the countries in the Amazon yet, so consider those areas to be rough demarcations. Other than the Rio Grande Republic, Brazil hasn't really lost any land. The monarchy is still surviving despite a few revolts in the northern cities, and the Empire still allows slavery with the Confederados flocking there.

On Sonora and Chihuahua, I forgot to check when they were annexed while making the map. Yes, they have been annexed by then and I should have shown Sonora as annexed in the last world map as well. :eek:

I'll be looking forward to an update that explains developments oi South America and the Mexican states. I still can't wrap my mind on how Paraguay ends up annexing Uruguay and Rio Grandese. They are just too different from each other.
I'm still vacillating between having Paraguay, Uruguay, and Rio Grande unifying for protection from their bigger neighbors or a Paraguayan conquest that develops into a mutually beneficial relationship.
 
Part Sixty-Four: Catholics and Indians
Got another update finished!

Part Sixty-Foure: Catholics and Indians

The Wandering Pope:
After the Modern Papal Schism began and Pope Pius was welcomed back to Rome by Garibaldi in 1868, the faction of the cardinals that had dissented from the Papacy and elected the Anti-Pope Alexander IX were in exile in Spain. The Anti-Papists (or Temporal Catholics as the called themselves to differentiate between them and the Anti-Papists of the Medieval era) stayed in Spain for the remainder of the Second Napoleonic War. Meanwhile, they attempted to build support among the Spanish for returning the Temporal Catholics to Rome. The Anti-Papists said that Pope Pius was working with Garibaldi and the French in order to liberalize the Catholic Church. However, these claims did not create much sympathy for the Anti-Papacy in Spain. After Isabella II was forced to abdicate the Spanish throne in favor of her son Alfonso XII in 1872, King Alfonso began a series of liberal reforms and disallowed the Anti-Papists from remaining in Spain.

After they were removed from Spain, the cardinals and many followers of Anti-Pope Alexander IX went to Portugal where they asked the Portuguese government to grant them a small parcel of land to represent the Pope's true temporal rule while they were exiled from Rome. However, the Portuguese parliament and King Pedro V were in support of Pope Pius, and no land was granted. With this, Alexander IX and the Anti-Papist cardinals traveled from country to country around Europe, looking for someone to take them in. But with most of Europe recovering from the wars in the 1860s, no government was willing to support the Anti-Papists. Seeing no safe haven in Europe, the cardinals began to look elsewhere.

In 1875, Alexander IX received a diplomatic letter from the Bishop of Tlaxcala informing the Anti-Papists of the support for their cause in the New World. While the Anti-Papists had been looking for a home in Europe, in the Americas their support among Catholic clergy had been growing. Roman Catholicism in the Americas was generally more conservative than Catholicism in Europe, and the clergy in many regions took to the Temporal cause as a support for the Church's conservative views. Alexander IX accepted the Bishop of Tlaxcala's offer and set out to the Mexican states. The Temporal Catholics were given the city of Puebla[1] by the Bishop of Tlaxcala. The Temporal Catholics began to gather more support in the more conservative areas of Ibero-America, with their major supportive areas being clustered near the Caribbean in Tlaxcala, Ecuador, Saint-Domingue, and rural Colombia.


Indian Incursions:
After the National War, the expansion of the railroads across the Mississippi and toward the Rocky Mountains and the Pacific coast encouraged further immigration to the western United States. As more and more Americans were enticed to migrate west for land, wealth, or precious metals, the expansion of settlements in the Great Plains began to conflict with the lands occupied by the natives and tensions between the American settlers backed by the United States army and the native Plains tribes increased.

In the southern Great Plains, the Kiowa Indians had already been pushed off their original lands. In the early 19th century, the Kiowa had been pushed out of Calhoun by incoming Dutch and southern immigrants, and had moved to eastern New Mexico and the interior of Tejas and Houston. But by the 1870s and 1880s, the growth of the railroads brought even more settlers and cattle ranching began to cut into the Kiowa lands. Chief White Bear of the Kiowa led a band to start raiding towns in western Houston in the 1870s, and the United States reacted in kind. After the Chisholm Raid by White Bear, a United States army regiment under the command of Colonel William Cody retaliated. The result was the Battle of Wichita River in 1874, which killed over 40 Kiowa. After two more clashes between the Union army and White Bear, the Kiowa finally gave up and agreed to vacate Tejas and Houston and were put in a reservation in eastern New Mexico.

In Colorado, many of the Ute tribes had been more at peace with the settlers because they had mostly relocated to the more sparsely settled areas of western Colorado beyond the first ridges of the Rockies. However, the Colorado Silver Boom brought more settlers deeper into the mountains and the railroads followed. After some confrontations between Ute tribesmen and the Mormons in Utah and against settlers in Shoshone Territory, Chief Ouray of one of the Ute clans urged peaceful action and negotiation with the settlers. Ouray's appeals to the Colorado territorial government led him to a meeting with Colorado governor John Evans and President Lee in 1876 during a celebration of Colorado's admittance to the Union. During this meeting, Lee expressed praise for Chief Ouray, and after discussion with governor Evans it was agreed that a reservation for the Ute would be set up in the southwestern corner of Colorado.

[1] In the early parts of the shift, the Anti-Papacy operated out of the Puebla Cathedral as its see.
 
California could also absorb a large portion of the Italian immigration of the late 1800s as a way to keep its latin culture. Italians (and other Southern Europeans) might choose California as their destination due to its Climate being similar to theirs.
It occurs to me this could lead to the formulation of a Californio Mafia, as they come to San Francisco or San Diego, instead of New Orleans. This could end up being a pretext for U.S. intervention. (Recall OTL Pancho Villa, or think about the current OTL Mex "drug war".)
 
So how is Canadian unification coming along? I see that Canada has managed to secure ownership of Manitoba, but not Acadia or Newfoundland.

In addition, I love your idea of allowing Gaelic to survive in BNA! :D

Do you think its possible that somewhere down the line that Acadia
(due to Nationalism or something along those lines) could create a hybrid between Irish and Scottish Gaelic called possibly Acadian Gaelic and promote it as the country's official language much as Quebec does with French IOTL?
 
So Buffalo Bill is fighting Indians?
Yep. Growing up in Demoine around the National War leads him into the military.

It occurs to me this could lead to the formulation of a Californio Mafia, as they come to San Francisco or San Diego, instead of New Orleans. This could end up being a pretext for U.S. intervention. (Recall OTL Pancho Villa, or think about the current OTL Mex "drug war".)
Ooh, I've been wondering what to do with the Italian immigration. A Californio mafia would certainly be an interesting cultural element.

So how is Canadian unification coming along? I see that Canada has managed to secure ownership of Manitoba, but not Acadia or Newfoundland.

In addition, I love your idea of allowing Gaelic to survive in BNA! :D

Do you think its possible that somewhere down the line that Acadia
(due to Nationalism or something along those lines) could create a hybrid between Irish and Scottish Gaelic called possibly Acadian Gaelic and promote it as the country's official language much as Quebec does with French IOTL?
Well, as of 1900 Acadia is a separate dominion and Newfoundland is still controlled by Britain. Not sure what I'm going to end up doing with Manitoba so for now I'm just showing it as part of British North America. Ontario, Quebec, and Labrador are going to be a single dominion, but going beyond that, I'm not sure whether the Manitoban Mormons will want to be part of Canada, and if they end up independent, then maybe OTL Canada west of that will end up a separate dominion.

And Gaelic will definitely survive in some form in Acadia as the dominant language, and probably in Canada as well. :D
 
Ooh, I've been wondering what to do with the Italian immigration. A Californio mafia would certainly be an interesting cultural element.
I see 2 ways it can go offhand: extensive warring & ultimate Italian dominance, or a greater Iberio influence with links through *Latin America & into South America. I'd forsee a major gang war in the 1880s-1910s sometime, with (say) Charlie Matranga or 'Toto' D'Aquila as "Godfather of California". IMO the big question is where Luciano & Lansky end up. What might happen IMO is Luciano (as Sal Lucania?) in San Fran & Lansky in NYC, on opposite sides of an international "Mob war". If Luciano does go to California, I expect him to be able to tame the tendency to vendetta. This, naturally, presumes you don't butterfly him so he has less luck TTL & kill him off.
And Gaelic will definitely survive in some form in Acadia as the dominant language, and probably in Canada as well. :D
That has a definite coolness factor. Nice touch.:cool:
 

Glen

Moderator
A map for you all. I've been wanting to make a map of this for a while, but haven't gotten around to it. Borders are at the moment my vision for around 1900, and number of immigrants is currently an estimate. At the moment it kind of feels too low in some places, but I'm not really sure.

Nice map of the Irish Diaspora!
 
I finally got caught up, good job. I like the split in the Catholic Church, something I've rarely seen. Also Marx actually leading a revolution:D. I see the plains wars have begun:(, but sadly unavoidable. I am curious why and how Colombia and Venezuela end up coming back together.:cool:
 
My finals are after break. Kind of a mixed blessing; I have time to study for them... but on the other hand I have to study during break. Can't wait for the update!
 
I've been looking at the maps, and have noticed Arkansas is spelled Arkansaw. Is that a typo, or just how it's spelled in this timeline?
 
Well, as of 1900 Acadia is a separate dominion and Newfoundland is still controlled by Britain. Not sure what I'm going to end up doing with Manitoba so for now I'm just showing it as part of British North America. Ontario, Quebec, and Labrador are going to be a single dominion, but going beyond that, I'm not sure whether the Manitoban Mormons will want to be part of Canada, and if they end up independent, then maybe OTL Canada west of that will end up a separate dominion.

And Gaelic will definitely survive in some form in Acadia as the dominant language, and probably in Canada as well. :D

I could see the Brits trying to appease the Mormons by making everything west of Ontario into a seperate Dominion called Manitoba or Rupertsland. Plus, it might also be cool to see a "reverse" Alaska purchase, and have Russia buy the relatively unpopulated British Pacific Coast, and OTL Yukon. (Although this part would be solely for Rule of Cool. ;))

On the other hand though, if Canada does only include OTL Ontario, Quebec, and Labrador, then perhaps it could become a Belgium analogue, and adopt a form of government more similar to Belgium's then OTL Canada's...which I think would be appropriate since Belgium is already doing better in this TL. In addition, perhaps we could have a third "province" in Northern Ontario called Keewatin or Hudson and have Gaelic be the dominate language.

And just to wank Gaelic even more, let's have Newfoundland have a Gaelic speaking majority as well. :D
 
I could see the Brits trying to appease the Mormons by making everything west of Ontario into a seperate Dominion called Manitoba or Rupertsland. Plus, it might also be cool to see a "reverse" Alaska purchase, and have Russia buy the relatively unpopulated British Pacific Coast, and OTL Yukon. (Although this part would be solely for Rule of Cool. ;))

On the other hand though, if Canada does only include OTL Ontario, Quebec, and Labrador, then perhaps it could become a Belgium analogue, and adopt a form of government more similar to Belgium's then OTL Canada's...which I think would be appropriate since Belgium is already doing better in this TL. In addition, perhaps we could have a third "province" in Northern Ontario called Keewatin or Hudson and have Gaelic be the dominate language.

And just to wank Gaelic even more, let's have Newfoundland have a Gaelic speaking majority as well. :D

I second all these ideas! They sound awesome.

And the Russian Yukon and the rest of British Columbia (or is it Northern Oregon ITTL?) might not be as ASB as it sounds judging how bad things seem to be going for Britain ITTL. It might be desperate at some point and would prefer for those territories to end up in Russian hands than in American hands.

Although with a Franco- German alliance I can't really see things going too well for Russia either.
 
I second all these ideas! They sound awesome.

And the Russian Yukon and the rest of British Columbia (or is it Northern Oregon ITTL?) might not be as ASB as it sounds judging how bad things seem to be going for Britain ITTL. It might be desperate at some point and would prefer for those territories to end up in Russian hands than in American hands.

Although with a Franco- German alliance I can't really see things going too well for Russia either.

True, but of course, the biggest obstacle is actually finding a reason for Russia to make the purchase. Perhaps someone could convince the Russian government that there's gold in the Yukon region before it's actually discovered?

In any case, will we be seeing any Canadian or Australian updates in the near future? ;)
 
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