Twelve Children of Camelot: Prince Arthur has twelve children with Catherine of Aragon, whom do they marry?

[The Gybson Boy]

King Henry VII died in 1509 and was succeeded by his eldest son, now King Arthur I of England. Prince Arthur married a Spanish princess, Catherine of Aragon, November 1501. A few months later, in the spring of 1502, he nearly succumbed to sweating sickness in the midst of an epidemic, at Ludlow Castle.
King Arthur I and his wife Catherine truly loved each other, during their marriage they had twelve children, all of whom miraculously survived into adulthood, something that was seen by many as the work of God.

King Arthur I of England (1486-) and Catherine of Aragon (1485-)
1.Princess Elizabeth (December 1503) (Named after Elizabeth of York, mother of Arthur)
2.Alfred, Prince of Wales¹ (December 1504) (Named after Alfred the Great)
3.Princess Margaret (March 1506) (Named after Margaret Beaufort, grandmother of Arthur)
4.Henry, Duke of Somerset (June 1508) (Named after Henry VII and Henry, Duke of York)
5.Princess Katherine (July 1509) (Named after Catherine of Aragon)
6.Princess Mary (July 1509) (Named after Maria of Aragon, Queen of Portugal)
7.Princess Cecily (September 1510)(Named after Cecily of York, Aunt of Arthur)
8.Edward, Duke of Surrey (January 1512) (named after King Edward IV, grandfather of Arthur)
9.Arthur, Duke of Hereford (May 1513) (Named after of Arthur himself)
10.Princess Joan (November1515) (Named after Queen Juana of Castile, Catherine's older sister)
11.Edmund, Duke of Cambridge (February 1517) (Named after Edmund Tudor, paternal grandfather of Arthur and Edmund, Duke of Somerset the younger brother of Arthur)
12.John, Duke of Bedford (May 1518) (Named after John of Gaunt, common relative of Catherine of Aragon and Arhut as well as Juan, Prince of Asturias)

(1-I know arthur's eldest son would probably be named Henry, but let's say Arthur decided to honor Alfred the great here)

Who would all these kids marry?

 

[Dragonboy]

Wow! Arthur and Cat had been busy!

I like the names ans titles of the children but the first true king of England was Æthelstan grandson of Alfred, although Alfred was still the Savior of the Saxons and the Vanquisher of the Great Heathen Army so a great name for his firstborn.

 

[Kynan]

Off the top of my head (I’m bored on a plane) here’s what im:

1. Princess Elizabeth (b.1503) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (b.1500)

- Charles wanted to marry pretty much anyone but Isabella, Mary the Elder doesn’t work out, he marries the niece around 1517 or so

2.Alfred, Prince of Wales (b.1504) m. Beatrice of Portugal (b.1504)

- Isabella goes to a convent, the Prince of Wales then marries the only available Portuguese princess in light of England and Portugal’s long running connection.

3.Princess Mary (b.1506) m. Luis, Duke of Beja (b.1506)

- Double marriage with the above. The heir is betrothed to Eleanor of Austria, but this means Henry pays less dowry.

4.Henry, Duke of Somerset (b.1508). Ursula Pole (b.1504)

- Strong royal blood locally with some money behind her makes this an easy local match

5.Princess Katherine (b.1509) m. James V, King of Scotland (b.1512)

- Someone has to marry him out of this lineup.

6.Princess Margaret (b.1509) m. Henry Stafford, Duke of Buckingham (b.1501)

- Big man Duke with money to support a Princess.

7.Princess Cecily (b. 1510) m. John Stewart, Duke of Albany (b.1472)

- Contingency plan for Scotland.

8.Edmund, Duke of Lancaster (b.1512) m. Mary Howard (b.1519)

- Rich Howard daughter, it makes sense.

9.Arthur, Duke of Richmond (b.1513) m. Katherine Willoughby, Baroness Willoughby de Eresby (b.1519)

- An heiress in Catherine’s hands. Perfect!

10.Princess Joan (b.1515) m. Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey (b.1517)

- Double Howard wedding. Future Duke. Keep the youngest daughter at home.

11.John, Duke of Cambridge (b.1517) m. Frances Brandon (b.1517)

- Royal blood. Bit iffy since Charles Brandon couldn’t afford to marry her to Henry Howard OTL, but maybe this happens because Arthur wants his blood to stay close.

12.Edward, Duke of Bedford (b.1518) m. Margaret Douglas (b.1515)

- Same as above.

And obviously second marriages are available and likely!

 

[BlueFlowwer]

*crying with joy over this concept* It's so beautiful

 

[Kerney]

Like Alfred. Alfred in many ways a lot like King Arthur, only victorious and definitely real, yet also like Arthur, almost a creature of legend.

Wonder what Henry does this TL. A career in the clergy was mentioned. A definite reach, but Pope would be awesome.

 

[Kynan]

Like Alfred. Alfred in many ways a lot like King Arthur, only victorious and definitely real, yet also like Arthur, almost a creature of legend.

Wonder what Henry does this TL. A career in the clergy was mentioned. A definite reach, but Pope would be awesome.

I’m partial to the idea of the Duke of York winding up with Bona Sforza and making a mess of things in Italy somehow.

 

[revlark]

Dear COA isn't just bulletproof here- more like capable of withstanding a nuclear bomb. She will likely be revered for many, many years, probably centuries. Honestly, even if she were to die in childbirth with Edward, she would still be deliriously happy with her lot in life. I agree with Kynan for the most part- one or more of them was probably considered for the church, but definitely not ASB to say none went through with it. Plus, I'm always happy with the OTL wives getting good fates, and this guarantees two will, since Kitty will be a sister-in-law and guaranteed to get a star-studded match herself, perhaps even as an English proxy? Plus, all the girls (granddaughters included) will be verrry eligible matches, seeing all that practically guaranteed fertility

 

[ordinarylittleme]

(1-I know arthur's eldest son would probably be named Henry, but let's say Arthur decided to honor Alfred the great here)

Why? I mean, sure, Arthur himself was named after a legendary king, but what connection does the Tudor dynasty have with Alfred?

I’m partial to the idea of the Duke of York winding up with Bona Sforza and making a mess of things in Italy somehow.

Unlikely, Marguerite d'Angouleme before Francis is king is much likelier as a match and she would also be a formidable Duchess of York

A career in the clergy was mentioned. A definite reach, but Pope would be awesome.

No way, Henry would not be allowed to enter church, he and Arthur are the only Tudor men around and no one knows Arthur's sons will live to adulthood

Alfred, Prince of Wales¹ (December 1504) (Named after Alfred the Great, the first monarch of unified England)

Isabella or Beatrice of Portugal, who are of the right ages for him

Princess Joan (b.1515) m. Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey (b.1517)

- Double Howard wedding. Future Duke. Keep the youngest daughter at home.

A truly bizarre idea when Francis, Dauphin of France is right there AND Joan will always be a legitimate princess with NO chance of inheriting England.

 

[ordinarylittleme]

since Kitty will be a sister-in-law

what

 

[Kerney]

what

Kitty: Katherine Howard?

 

[HortenseMancini]

1.Princess Elizabeth (December 1503) (Named after Elizabeth of York, mother of Arthur)

Marries HRE Charles V

2.Alfred, Prince of Wales¹ (December 1504) (Named after Alfred the Great, the first monarch of unified England)

Marries Eleanor of Austria OR Isabella of Portugal

3.Princess Mary (March 1506) (Named after Maria of Aragon, Queen of Portugal)

Marries…João III of Portugal? Maybe?

4.Henry, Duke of Somerset (June 1508) (Named after Henry VII and Henry, Duke of York)

Marries Elizabeth Grey, Viscountess Lisle (sorry Brandon, she’s perfect for a royal duke)

5.Princess Katherine (July 1509) (Named after Catherine of Aragon)

6.Princess Margaret (July 1509) (Named after Margaret Beaufort, grandmother of Arthur)

For these two, ATL Scottish prince or ATL son of Louis XII and Anne of Brittany

7.Princess Cecily (September 1510)(Named after Cecily of York, Aunt of Arthur)

Same as above - I find it unlikely that between the twins and lady Cecily all three survive to maturity so 🤷

8.Edmund, Duke of Lancaster (January 1512) (Named after Edmund Tudor, paternal grandfather of Arthur and Edmund, Duke of Somerset the younger brother of Arthur)

Ok, first off, duchy of Lancaster would never again be alienated from the crown after the war of the Roses so might I suggest changing edmund’s title to Duke of Bedford and making lord Edward the Duke of Exeter? Second…a daughter of the 2nd marquess of Dorset? They’re the right age and rank for a third son

9.Arthur, Duke of Richmond (May 1513) (Named after of Arthur himself)

A Howard girl?

10.Princess Joan (November1515) (Named after Queen Juana of Castile, Catherine's older sister)

ATL French king or dauphin or a son of Christian ii of Denmark…Duke of Lorraine or of jülich-Cleves-berg could work too but would be considered less preferable

11.John, Duke of Cambridge (February 1517) (Named after John of Gaunt, common relative of Catherine of Aragon and Arhut as well as Juan, Prince of Asturias)

Anne Bourchier, 7th Baroness Bourchier or an ATL heiress

12.Edward, Duke of Bedford (May 1518) (named after King Edward IV, grandfather of Arthur)

Catherine willoughby, 12th baroness willoughby de Eresby or an ATL heiress

 

[HortenseMancini]

since Kitty will be a sister-in-law

Kitty: Katherine Howard?

Katherine Howard, the one who married Henry viii IOTL, was a niece of the 3rd Duke of Norfolk, not his daughter, but still would certainly have a better life with her cousins making royal matches (which btw is very unrealistic)

 

[HortenseMancini]

Also fwiw Alfred, while indeed the only monarch from the British isles and Ireland to be known as ‘the great’, was only ever king of Wessex…it was his grandson, Æthelstan, who was the first ‘king of the english’

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Kitty: Katherine Howard?

Ah I see - I was wondering how she'd be a sister-in-law...

a son of Christian ii of Denmark

Christian has to not be deposed for that to work

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Princess Cecily (b. 1510) m. John Stewart, Duke of Albany (b.1472)

- Contingency plan for Scotland.

....if her sister is already Queen of Scotland (although Cecily is a better age for James)....why is this necessary? An alt-son of Charles III of Savoy, perhaps, might be a better match

 

[Cate13]

1.Princess Elizabeth (December 1503) (Named after Elizabeth of York, mother of Arthur)

marries Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, b.1500

2.Alfred, Prince of Wales¹ (December 1504) (Named after Alfred the Great, the first monarch of unified England)

marries either of the Portuguese Infantas (Isabella, b. 1503 or Beatrice, b. 1504) or Eleanor of Austria

3.Princess Mary (March 1506) (Named after Maria of Aragon, Queen of Portugal)

João III, King of Portugal, b. 1502

4.Henry, Duke of Somerset (June 1508) (Named after Henry VII and Henry, Duke of York)

a French Proxy, so either Marie de Guise, b. 1515 or Marie of Bourbon, b. 1515
or if Louis and Anne of Brittany manage a sun, Renée de Valois, b. 1510

5.Princess Katherine (July 1509) (Named after Catherine of Aragon)

6.Princess Margaret (July 1509) (Named after Margaret Beaufort, grandmother of Arthur)

7.Princess Cecily (September 1510)(Named after Cecily of York, Aunt of Arthur)

These three Princesses are close enough in age that the below list could apply to any of them

James V, King of Scotland, b. 1512​

ATL son(s) of of Louis and Anne of Brittany ) If Anne has two sons the second will be Duke of Brittany​

Luís of Beja, b. 1506 (but only if Mary is married to João​

Johan Frederick I, Elector of Saxony, b. 1503​

An Italian Duke, but I'm not as familiar with Italian history​

8.Edmund, Duke of Lancaster (January 1512) (Named after Edmund Tudor, paternal grandfather of Arthur and Edmund, Duke of Somerset the younger brother of Arthur)

Would not be Duke of Lancaster.
Also, I doubt the younger boys would all be Dukes, and at least one would be sent to the church.

9.Arthur, Duke of Richmond (May 1513) (Named after of Arthur himself)

Edmund and Arthur are almost guarantied to marry the below. I'm not sure which gets which

Katherine Willoughby, Baroness Willoughby de Eresby, b.1519​

Anne Bourchier, 7th Baroness Bourchier. b/ 1517​

10.Princess Joan (November1515) (Named after Queen Juana of Castile, Catherine's older sister)

William the Rich, Duke of Julich-Cleves-Burg, b. 1516
An Italian Duke, but again I'm not as familiar with Italian history

11.John, Duke of Cambridge (February 1517) (Named after John of Gaunt, common relative of Catherine of Aragon and Arhut as well as Juan, Prince of Asturias)

12.Edward, Duke of Bedford (May 1518) (named after King Edward IV, grandfather of Arthur)

The youngest two boys would have basically the same marriage list, though probably one or both are going to the church:

Jeanne d'Albret, Queen of Navarre, b. 1528​

Frances Brandon, b.1517 (If she's still born, as Charles Brandon isn't Arthur's special friend, he's probably not going to be a duke and so therefor probably less attractive to Mary)​

Margaret Douglas, b. 1515​

 

[ordinarylittleme]

Eleanor of Austria

She's too old, but her younger sisters are possible choices

Louis and Anne of Brittany manage a sun, Renée de Valois, b. 1510

No way, Renee with a full brother would be marrying MUCH higher

Luís of Beja, b. 1506 (but only if Mary is married to João​

No way as younger sons did not get prestigious royal princesses as brides....the only way Beja works is if one of the princesses becomes queen regnant

Margaret Douglas, b. 1515​

What's to say she'll be born? Flodden is butterflied away ITTL after all so James IV would likely live longer

Also, I doubt the younger boys would all be Dukes, and at least one would be sent to the church.

Royal princes were entitled to dukedoms regardless of age and a fledgling dynasty like the Tudors cannot risk sending legitimate sons to church (see the sons of Edward III/Philippa of Hainault - all were dukes and none were sent to church). Male bastards can be considered for church life though

 

[revlark]

Ah I see - I was wondering how she'd be a sister-in-law...

I was talking about the matches proposed by Kynan, where she suggested a possible Howard match for the younger siblings

 

[ordinarylittleme]

I was talking about the matches proposed by Kynan, where she suggested a possible Howard match for the younger siblings

That could work for the younger boys - for the girls I suppose only if there are no foreign candidates

 

[Tudorfan]

A truly bizarre idea when Francis, Dauphin of France is right there AND Joan will always be a legitimate princess with NO chance of inheriting England.

Oh, make no mistake, with Catherine as bullet proof as she is here and her family loathing the Valois there's no way on Earth or in Hell that she'd ever let a single child of her's, under any circumstances, marry into France. She and all of her birth family would rather stick needles in their eyes than marry French...