…her dad literally married a French princess. Charles V was betrothed to one for many years, and later married his sister to the French king.
Twelve Children of Camelot: Prince Arthur has twelve children with Catherine of Aragon, whom do they marry?
- Thread starter The Gybson Boy
- Start date
Seconding @HortenseMancini
Additionally, Henry VII is likely to live quite a long time and so is probably the one arranging the marriages
Eh, sometimes younger sons did, rare but it did happen. And with England having soo many princesses to marry off, a wealthy Portuguese prince with his own title is not a bad match.
Royal princes are not entitled to dukedoms. Princes did enter the church (see Henry Cardinal King of Portugal) and with 6 sons plus Henry’s branch of Tudors the Tudors can afford to send a son to the church, especially since by the time the youngest reach adulthood they probably have a nephew or two.
The key though is that the cardinal king was not English, he was portuguese. English kings and royal dukes did not send their legitimate sons to the church. It didn’t even happen with Edward iii or richard of York, who had plenty of legitimate sons.
I’m sorry, I just can’t see Henry settling for a second son - a more minor continental ruler, like Duke of Lorraine or Duke of Cleves, would do just as well while still being a sovereign
Point, though perhaps, that's one of the Iberian traditions Catherine brings with her.
See the problem is both the Duke of Lorraine and the Duke of Cleves were slightly to young for those three princesses (Katharine, Margaret, Cecily). Having those three so close in age, makes it hard to find them all a match.
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Yes but that's a waste of dowry. Why not save money and shove them to nunneries at that point
I can see Prince Alfred marrying either Isabella of Portugal or Catherine of Austria.
Isabella could work, she's older and also was quite determined to only marry a king
There are rare exceptions, but Catherine was well known to loathe the French, so her babies won't be marrying them with the influence she has here...
She might hate the French, but it's not her that's going to be deciding the marriages - that's Arthur
True, I can see Joan b 1515 marrying the dauphin François b 1518 for example.
All depends on the influence she has - she's had twelve children by Arthur after all; that gives her some clout at court.
Yes - but surely even she can see the international clout that could come from her daughters being queens of basically half of Europe. Maybe if one of the younger boys is gender-flipped, then Sigismund II Augustus gets a Tudor wife
If it's any, it's the youngest, so the French descendants are so far removed from the throne that they won't be a threat.
So many likely matches for the girls!
Elizabeth b 1503 m Charles V
Mary b 1506 to John III of Portugal?
Katherine b 1509 became a nun due to poor health
Margaret b 1509 m James V of Scotland b 1512
Cecily b 1510 m Gustav I Vasa
Joan b 1515 m Francis II of France b 1518
Even if Arthur maintained the same level of fiscal discipline that his father had, the crown will end his reign rather impoverished trying to support six sons living into adulthood as well as dowries for six daughters. (Unless the English still held to the tradition that a dowry was only paid for the eldest daughter. I'm not sure when they ditched this, though I'm pretty sure it was before this time.)
Except Arthur is not "definitely real" 🙃
I have quibbles about the titles too
I don't know. As much as this was a thing on the continent, English monarchs didn't really have a tradition of sending their legitimate sons into the church. None had since the Conquest and I can't think of even an Anglo-Saxon king who did off the top of my head.
Not particularly. He can always start some conquests, maybe use the loot as returned dowries (e.g. Isabella of Aragon's dowry)