The Light of The North (Norse TL)
- Thread starter Tairo
- Start date
Some will be converting to Christianity yes but at a much slower process than OTL, others however will remain Norse Pagan but that will be undergoing changes itself.
Speaking of religion, what will be religion like in Vinland? Will we see syncretism between Norse paganism and Mi'kmaq (among other possible tribes, like the Innu) beliefs? If so, I have a few sources (and ideas myself) that might be useful.
Syncretism will be happening for all Vinland Bay/Gulf of St.Lawrence cultures and societies, with a strain of Henotheism that explicitly condemns monotheism.
The 'Vinland Hierarchy of Gods' plan I have at the moment is to have these deities ascendant:
- Rán, Goddess of The Sea
- Gefjun, Goddess of Farming
- Thor, God of Storms and Friend of Mankind
- Odin, The Allfather and Lord of Knowledge
- Loki, The Trickster
- Eir, The Goddess of Mercy and Medicine
- Vár, Goddess of Oaths
- Forseti, God of Justice
It's merely at planning stage though, so I'm open to ideas and comments.
The Jarl of the Fogmen and the End of Wessex
846
The Norsemen knew him as White Eagle, he had been but a child hunting moose with his bow when they first encountered each other. They arrived dressed in furs, wielding the strangest weapons made from a metal he had never seen before. It quickly became apparent that neither of them knew the others language, so in desperation he attempted to draw a moose alongside a bow on the soil before them, luckily they managed to understand this. As they travelled together over the next week he slowly learned their language and who they were. Explorers from lands far beyond the sea, seeking new lands and new trades, their journey had began from a place in the east made of ice and snow before traversing over a land far to the north where the sun never set. Were it not for their strange weapons at least confirming some of the tale he would have dismissed them out of hand. He had (In his opinion) subtly enquired as to what metal their weapons were made from, what it was worth in trade and if any would be willing to part with the weapons. They had replied that while none would part with what they currently had, they could easily make more which they would part for in either gold, silver or supplies for their travels.
The metal that he soon came to learn was named Iron could be used for weapons, farming tools and even buildings. Throughout the years he first traded fish for the weapons, then furs for the farming tools. As the influx of the metal grew, so too had his power and followers. 5 years ago he had managed to convince what was in essence his tribe to build a wooden village that would remain on the coast of Epikwitk (OTL Prince Edward Island). Cows, Pigs and sheep were traded for at first truly excessive amounts of whale fat, walrus ivory and sealskins. Trade quickly normalised however as neither his people nor the Norse could handle such an amount of materials in that short of a timeframe. The new animals, tools and weapons saw his people emerge the winter with an abundance of food, further increasing his power and his opinion of the Norsemen. Month by month, the village grew until it now held 150 people. Due to the importance of the language for trade many of his people were capable of speaking at least some norse. Yet still the method of making this Iron eluded him, so in 846 he asked the traders to carry messages to the norse settlements on Vinland, Fokajar and Björnland that would have ramifications for centuries to come - he would place his village under the rule of whichever would teach them the secret.
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Meanwhile in a land far across the sea, the Heptarchy is under assault from all sides. Hingwar marched north capturing the ancient roman town of York proclaiming himself the King of Jorvik. The Kingdom of Wessex ceases to exist as the battles of Bath and Glastonbury result in decisive victories for Harald the Dane, unable to further resist he is able to enforce his rule on the rest of the once-kingdom. The Daneðing, until the year prior had merely been the viking ruled Isle of Sheppey and outlying regions of Kent, quickly grows as adventurous warbands of scandinavia land and head north into the Kingdom of Essex which survived as barely existent rump state. Olaf the White apparently viewing these conquests as a challenge and pressed eastwards into the Kingdom of Northumbria.
England 846
Not too happy with the Mi'kmaq chief's name, the ones I can currently find are of french origin which don't really make sense for this TL
The Norsemen knew him as White Eagle, he had been but a child hunting moose with his bow when they first encountered each other. They arrived dressed in furs, wielding the strangest weapons made from a metal he had never seen before. It quickly became apparent that neither of them knew the others language, so in desperation he attempted to draw a moose alongside a bow on the soil before them, luckily they managed to understand this. As they travelled together over the next week he slowly learned their language and who they were. Explorers from lands far beyond the sea, seeking new lands and new trades, their journey had began from a place in the east made of ice and snow before traversing over a land far to the north where the sun never set. Were it not for their strange weapons at least confirming some of the tale he would have dismissed them out of hand. He had (In his opinion) subtly enquired as to what metal their weapons were made from, what it was worth in trade and if any would be willing to part with the weapons. They had replied that while none would part with what they currently had, they could easily make more which they would part for in either gold, silver or supplies for their travels.
The metal that he soon came to learn was named Iron could be used for weapons, farming tools and even buildings. Throughout the years he first traded fish for the weapons, then furs for the farming tools. As the influx of the metal grew, so too had his power and followers. 5 years ago he had managed to convince what was in essence his tribe to build a wooden village that would remain on the coast of Epikwitk (OTL Prince Edward Island). Cows, Pigs and sheep were traded for at first truly excessive amounts of whale fat, walrus ivory and sealskins. Trade quickly normalised however as neither his people nor the Norse could handle such an amount of materials in that short of a timeframe. The new animals, tools and weapons saw his people emerge the winter with an abundance of food, further increasing his power and his opinion of the Norsemen. Month by month, the village grew until it now held 150 people. Due to the importance of the language for trade many of his people were capable of speaking at least some norse. Yet still the method of making this Iron eluded him, so in 846 he asked the traders to carry messages to the norse settlements on Vinland, Fokajar and Björnland that would have ramifications for centuries to come - he would place his village under the rule of whichever would teach them the secret.
---
Meanwhile in a land far across the sea, the Heptarchy is under assault from all sides. Hingwar marched north capturing the ancient roman town of York proclaiming himself the King of Jorvik. The Kingdom of Wessex ceases to exist as the battles of Bath and Glastonbury result in decisive victories for Harald the Dane, unable to further resist he is able to enforce his rule on the rest of the once-kingdom. The Daneðing, until the year prior had merely been the viking ruled Isle of Sheppey and outlying regions of Kent, quickly grows as adventurous warbands of scandinavia land and head north into the Kingdom of Essex which survived as barely existent rump state. Olaf the White apparently viewing these conquests as a challenge and pressed eastwards into the Kingdom of Northumbria.
England 846
Not too happy with the Mi'kmaq chief's name, the ones I can currently find are of french origin which don't really make sense for this TL
That's an interesting development. Will this taboo against monotheism have anything to do with our old friend Jesus?
Ran wasn't really worshipped so much as feared (a prominent theme was her taking sailors into the depths, so she was more of a siren-like than say, Poseidon) among the Norse. IIRC Njord was the more prominent seafaring god. There isn't really a sea god among the Eastern Algonquians (besides a a whale in Mi'kmaq myths that carries Kluskap around the ocean, Horned Serpent/Underwater Panther, though they were feared rather than worshipped, and the legends about underwater people), so any sea god would probably be very Nordic influenced.
Again, she'd probably be very Norse influenced, since the Mi'kmaq didn't have much agriculture in OTL. Maybe we could see syncretism with First Mother, the agricultural deity from their cousins further south, who gave birth to the world and then sacrificed herself (by turning into corn/plants) so that humans could eat?
Thor is an interesting deity, as there's a common lightning god/spirit(s) present throughout most of North America that could easily be identified with him: thunderbirds. They have a surprising amount of themes in common beside being storm deities, down to both their mortal enemies being serpents (Horned Serpent in the case of the Thunderbirds, Jormungandr in the case of Thor). We could see a singular Thor/Thunderbird deity emerge, and I could easily see this syncretized deity becoming very popular.
I could see Odin being syncretized with Kluskap/Glooscap/etc, both being one of, if not the most important members of their pantheons, and they both share a lot of trickster traits.
Loki also has an easy parallel: Luks. Both trickster gods who were seen as manifestations of evil, and are constantly in conflict with the other deities. Luks was usually identified with the wolverine, so you could work that into it too. It's also helpful that the names both sound surprisingly similar (though I wouldn't read much into it).
Seems like she's fairly minor (and possibly a manifestation of Frigg/Freya) to be a major player in Vinland, but you never know. Speaking of Freya, why wouldn't her worship spread into Vinland? She was very popular and respected, judging by the way volvas were treated by the Norse.
Var also appears to be minor, as well as being an aspect of Freya. Is there any significance to her being a major goddess, like oaths being very important to the culture of Vinland?
Can't recall any justice/law deities present in the Northeast OTTOMH, so he'll be very Norse influenced.
Could you elaborate on this a bit?
Ascendant doesn't mean worshipped, I've been weighing both Rán and Aegir, with Rán having a slight edge as Aegir was a 'friend of the gods'. The Taboo on monotheism will occur due to events on Vinland in 900
Essentially yes, I've been toying with either her or Freyja being the favoured goddess via syncretism with the St.Lawrence Iroquious. The present native cultures are slowly adapting to agriculture, with the norse having a distinct advantage, although I'm 99% sure that none of the cultures the Norse have encountered have maize/corn
Yeah, Thor, Loki and Odin are all very easy to syncretise. At present I'm uncertain as to which will be 'chief of the gods' so to speak for this Syncretism
I toyed with Freyja's role as the most ascendant goddess but thought that the amount of things she would be associated with in this syncretism to many too be believable IMO. The importance of oaths will become paramount at around 900 (Spolilers, I guess)
Yes, the cultures that the norse encounter will slowly be shifting towards their own th/tings for law and order
Norse-style inheritance laws will start to become the norm throughout the Bay - Children inherit before siblings, sons before daughters but nothing prevents a daughter being the sole heir. I'm not envisioning Shieldmaidens or CK2's Enatic Clans atm, more a 'It works, so who cares' approach towards property and inheritance with both the 'son/'dottir naming following from whichever parent is the higher powered/more prestigious.
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Even so, Ran and Aegir were more abstract, being personifications (to continue my analogy with Greek mythology think of Aegir as Oceanus), while Njord was the god of the more human sides of the sea, like sailing and the wind, so he would have been much more relevant than Aegir or Ran to the Vikings.
That's a whole other belief system than the Algonquian one, but of the top of my head, she could be associated with Sky Mother or Onatah.
By 800 CE, maize was widespread throughout North America, though limited north of Maine and southern Ontario. Even so, the Mi'kmaq had definitely encountered the crop by this point, and there's evidence that they might have engaged in limited horticulture at certain locations.
The Iroquoians OTOH had certainly cultivated the crop, and it was very important to their culture.
Loki is definitely out the question, so Odin most likely, if you follow my idea of syncretism with Kluskap.
Not necessarily. As anyone who's studied mythology knows, plenty of gods end up in charge of a wide array of very distinct things. Take Apollo for example. In fact, this might even be to her advantage, as gods with a broader scope attract a wider range of followers. It's also easier to have fewer more powerful gods rather than a bunch of gods with relatively small functions.
Freyja also makes since as this type of deity, since she's very easy to syncretise with other goddesses.
That's nothing too out of the ordinary, as cognatic agnatic primogeniture was mostly the norm. Will you explore how this will contrast with the mostly matriarchal Iroquoians, as well as the mostly patriarchal Algonquians?
The matriarchal vs patriarchal will be explored, yes. There will be some matriarchal tings along the St.Lawrence estuary (before the gulf narrows to the river) established by those going a'viking. If the Mi'kmaq are aware of maize, then the Northern Waterway has a significant boost in trade attraction that will be shown in further updates.
As a side note can I once again mention how infuriating it is trying to find information on native cultures this long before Columbus
The Norse establishing matriarchal inheritance independently? Or are you referring to the Laurentians turning into seafaring raiders? Actually don't answer my question, since I don't want any spoilers.
I mean they were aware maize existed, the real problem is that they didn't cultivate it.
Tell me about it. The Late Woodland Period is comparatively easy though, since there's a stable continuity during the period, unless specified. Most articles take place during this period, so that's also an advantage.
Granted, I'm used to working with even worse time periods in terms of how little we know (the Archaic period has been the cause of many headaches), so I may be a bit biased.
By the way, here's an article on the St. Lawrence Iroquoians you might find useful:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15WZewBxjZ73HFhCYd1V3FdlxOAjOLw_5/view?usp=drivesdk
Not related, but what will be the fate of the Mississippians? Do you have any plans for them?
So far, everything I've read about the Mississippi culture leads me to believe that the Norse would view it as a complete anathema, so I have plans for them, presently only Niagra Falls is preventing the Norse invading as soon as they learn of them.
What makes you think that? Genuinely curious. Also, why Niagara Falls of all places? Don't recall anything that would make them a good option to resist the Norse. Does that also imply that the Norse will get a more colonialist approach to settlement of the New World later on?
The apparently institutionalised social inequality alongside the 'divine mandates' of their rulers and apparent centralisation of their rulers all coalesce towards something that the 9th century Norse utterly loathe: The trampling over the free-speaking rights and traditions to which they're accustomed.
Niagara Falls I placed merely because simply sailing over it is a bad idea.
The Norse will be engaging in colonialism yes but not as it was OTL. The most recent update shows the framework that Norse colonies will take.
Certainly a political contradiction there, but I'm not really sure that the Norse would really care all that much, if trade relations are smooth. If hostilities arise however (which is totally likely), I could certainly see this being used as an excuse to raid and invade Mississippian chiefdoms. Heck, could we see some sort of proto-Communist rebellion backed by the Norse? Stirring up the commoners against the ruling class, promising to redistribute the wealth of the chiefs among the people and installing a Norse-inspired democracy, with a thing and everything? Possibly just as an excuse for the Norse to get better trade deals? However, I think that might lean on the more implausible side of things; though it sounds like a very fun concept to explore.
Speaking of sailing obstacles, How will the Norse get past the Lachine Rapids on the St. Lawrence?
Ooh. Can't wait.
Anathema was probably the wrong word to use but conflict between the two would be very easy to start. Trade treatment will be a factor in any such conflict
For sailing obstacles, the Norse will just use portage.
White Eagle's Village will be the model of 'colonialism' that the Norse will be using for the next century or two with a lot of natives assimilating to Norse for trading, with the Vinland Bay cultures 'Norsifying' first.
847
847
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Valdemar, then lawspeaker of Fokajar and being closest to Epekwitk, agrees to White Eagle's request and quickly sails to the village bringing three smiths with him. A þing was quickly held where the villagers of what comes to be known as Hvitǫrnstaðr proclaim him Jarl of Fokeyjar. Shrines to Gefjun begin to appear through out Epekwitk.
Snorri Buðlisson is declared outlaw by the Vesþing on Vinland after killing a trader from Greenland. Snorri heads west into Markland before then heading south.
The Vesþing begins to meet yearly at Torgensvik (OTL Norris Point). It will soon become a point of contention between the Beothuk and the Norse
The slow but steady influx of thrill-seeking bear hunters allows þordis to expand her rule westwards on Björnland. With the trade of Honey Mead, a drink made from maple sap that is proving to be very popular, arriving from Markland with furs leaving, her capital of þordisrike is slowly beginning to accrue both wealth and people, allowing her to start preparing plans for an expedition to the west, to explore the peninsula known to the fog men as land's end (Gaspesie Peninsula).
The Kingdoms of Hwicce and Northumbria fall to the leaders of the great heathen army, Northumbria is divided between Jorvik and Dyflinn with Hwicce being added to Harald's domain.
Nominoe of Brittany defeats a warband of vikings in the Breton March, with the defeated vikings then heading north to join Harald, where they begin a series of raids on Dummonia.
Rorik of Dorestead begins a prolonged series of raids along the Rhine. The defense of the Seine begins to wane as a result.
A Laurentian settlment is moved north to Tadoussac.
The Anglo-Saxons ongoing nightmare:
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Valdemar, then lawspeaker of Fokajar and being closest to Epekwitk, agrees to White Eagle's request and quickly sails to the village bringing three smiths with him. A þing was quickly held where the villagers of what comes to be known as Hvitǫrnstaðr proclaim him Jarl of Fokeyjar. Shrines to Gefjun begin to appear through out Epekwitk.
Snorri Buðlisson is declared outlaw by the Vesþing on Vinland after killing a trader from Greenland. Snorri heads west into Markland before then heading south.
The Vesþing begins to meet yearly at Torgensvik (OTL Norris Point). It will soon become a point of contention between the Beothuk and the Norse
The slow but steady influx of thrill-seeking bear hunters allows þordis to expand her rule westwards on Björnland. With the trade of Honey Mead, a drink made from maple sap that is proving to be very popular, arriving from Markland with furs leaving, her capital of þordisrike is slowly beginning to accrue both wealth and people, allowing her to start preparing plans for an expedition to the west, to explore the peninsula known to the fog men as land's end (Gaspesie Peninsula).
The Kingdoms of Hwicce and Northumbria fall to the leaders of the great heathen army, Northumbria is divided between Jorvik and Dyflinn with Hwicce being added to Harald's domain.
Nominoe of Brittany defeats a warband of vikings in the Breton March, with the defeated vikings then heading north to join Harald, where they begin a series of raids on Dummonia.
Rorik of Dorestead begins a prolonged series of raids along the Rhine. The defense of the Seine begins to wane as a result.
A Laurentian settlment is moved north to Tadoussac.
The Anglo-Saxons ongoing nightmare:
Utaneyjar
"That flannfluga is hoping to get men to sail down the river?" Kettil asked as he placed his mead down on the bar.
"Flannfluga? What, she turn you down?" Bersi rejoindered as he had a fair idea as to who his friend was talking about. þordis, ruler of her self-named city (more of a village really) and jarldom had put out a call for explorers to press westwards (or was it southwards) down the river of Vinland Bay. As most of the bay had now been explored, the Norse had found themselves at a significant advantage. They had technologies that the Skraelings not only lacked but did not know how to make. Conversely however, the skraelings had knowledge that the Norse did not, the Fog Men had attempted to explain the 'The Three Sisters' to him at one point, crops that grew at the benefit of each other or something. Bersi was a trader not a farmer so the explanation of how it worked or wouldn't grow on Vinland went right over his head. It's potential value however did not.
"Yes, she turned me down! Said I was a tall-talker and the Skraeling had saved my life or some such rot. Bah, I'll not be some Skraeling thrall" Kettil said. In Bersi's opinion, the Skraeling HAD saved his life if either of them were telling the truth. Kettil had apparently tried to wrestle a bear to inspire a Skald or his Frilla or both, the tale changed depending on who he told it to. The most recent version of it being that he had attempted to wrestle the bear naked. In winter. If any of it was true was a subject of much debate amongst both the Norse and Skraelings after rumours circulated that the skraeling in question wanted nothing more in his life than 'to never meet that moron again'.
þordis, Jarl of Björnland and the lady in question had reputedly had lovers of both of men and women throughout the years if Bersi was to believe the rumours. Whether she did or didn't bore no concern to him, if any of the expedition brought back 'The Three Sisters' however did as new crops could be very profitable in the right circumstances. He had heard strange things about her realm, that Skalds and Gyðas took disfavour on those retelling Rig's tale or how the skraelings switched between using the isle as a hunting ground or trading ground with the Fog Men. Tuning out the rest of Kettil's complaints about Utaneyjar, as these lands were coming to be known, he made plans to head south to Björnland.
---
looking over my notes for this, I can have Shield-maidens normalised within the New World. So I'm going to.
"Flannfluga? What, she turn you down?" Bersi rejoindered as he had a fair idea as to who his friend was talking about. þordis, ruler of her self-named city (more of a village really) and jarldom had put out a call for explorers to press westwards (or was it southwards) down the river of Vinland Bay. As most of the bay had now been explored, the Norse had found themselves at a significant advantage. They had technologies that the Skraelings not only lacked but did not know how to make. Conversely however, the skraelings had knowledge that the Norse did not, the Fog Men had attempted to explain the 'The Three Sisters' to him at one point, crops that grew at the benefit of each other or something. Bersi was a trader not a farmer so the explanation of how it worked or wouldn't grow on Vinland went right over his head. It's potential value however did not.
"Yes, she turned me down! Said I was a tall-talker and the Skraeling had saved my life or some such rot. Bah, I'll not be some Skraeling thrall" Kettil said. In Bersi's opinion, the Skraeling HAD saved his life if either of them were telling the truth. Kettil had apparently tried to wrestle a bear to inspire a Skald or his Frilla or both, the tale changed depending on who he told it to. The most recent version of it being that he had attempted to wrestle the bear naked. In winter. If any of it was true was a subject of much debate amongst both the Norse and Skraelings after rumours circulated that the skraeling in question wanted nothing more in his life than 'to never meet that moron again'.
þordis, Jarl of Björnland and the lady in question had reputedly had lovers of both of men and women throughout the years if Bersi was to believe the rumours. Whether she did or didn't bore no concern to him, if any of the expedition brought back 'The Three Sisters' however did as new crops could be very profitable in the right circumstances. He had heard strange things about her realm, that Skalds and Gyðas took disfavour on those retelling Rig's tale or how the skraelings switched between using the isle as a hunting ground or trading ground with the Fog Men. Tuning out the rest of Kettil's complaints about Utaneyjar, as these lands were coming to be known, he made plans to head south to Björnland.
---
looking over my notes for this, I can have Shield-maidens normalised within the New World. So I'm going to.
"Honey mead"? Mead is made from honey. Do you mean honeyjack, (freeze-)distilled mead?