Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.

My Dad trialled the EM2 in Malaya. He has always been very positive about it.

The EM2s cancellation is one of his favourite pet rants at perfidity of foreigners and the Labour Party (along with the TSR2 cancellation, decimalisation of the pound and the UK being "tricked" (his words) into joining the EU and not the EEU, as was promised the referendum.)
I actually ran into a few people who worked on the TSR2, they said they had a game changer there that got gutted by the Govt at the time that was cancelled for an aircraft a variant of the F-111 which was overpriced and its development dragged on.
 
I actually ran into a few people who worked on the TSR2, they said they had a game changer there that got gutted by the Govt at the time that was cancelled for an aircraft a variant of the F-111 which was overpriced and its development dragged on.

As Sydney Camm said: "All modern aircraft have four dimensions - length, height, span and politics. The TSR2 only got the first three right."
 
Things are only better in hindsight compared to OTL

In both ITL and TTL things are still on the wrong side of bloody awful.
In regards to WWI, or “modern history” possibly. The fronts have switched results, but it is like ‘17-‘18 so far. (French collapse & Russian tenacity, vs Russian collapse & French tenacity).
Everywhere where the Panzers can’t drive to, the Axis have been soundly defeated, and the naval victories are far more decisive than those in WWI.

When compared to Louis Le Soleil & the Revolutionary/Napoleonic Wars, is it really that bad?
 
The FAL project ran hand in hand with the EM2 project with prototypes in 7.92 Kurtz and the experimental .280 rounds.

Its original design was able to be ‘stretched’ to incorporate the 7.62 NATO round.

If the decision was made to go with the true .270 intermediate round then I think the demands of equipping the entire British army and reserves etc will still impose a need to use a design better suited for mass production.

The change in calibre did not change this.

Anyway it’s simply my opinion and it’s not a hill I’m dying over.
I think in a way were agreeing but from different angles.

My main argument is that the EM-2 needs to be quicker, easier and cheaper to manufacture to see adoption. The only way it gets that is with prolonged development rather than messing about with calibres.
The FAL will probably still come out ahead if it went directly against the EM-2 but it could be close enough for Britain to chose the British rifle. Another potential factor is that FN might chase the 7.62 NATO market as they would likely consider it a larger market. If their is no FN alternative then the EM-2 gets adopted.

Does take a fair few changes mind.
 
I do apologise for inadvertently re-igniting the USM of the calibre and NATO rifle world. I only meant to highlight a further example of Churchill and the USA.
On this forum you only have yourself to blame :openedeyewink:

One has to wonder what you were expecting?
 
My Dad trialled the EM2 in Malaya. He has always been very positive about it.

The EM2s cancellation is one of his favourite pet rants at perfidity of foreigners and the Labour Party (along with the TSR2 cancellation, decimalisation of the pound and the UK being "tricked" (his words) into joining the EU and not the EEU, as was promised the referendum.)
Was he in the Skins?

My uncle was an Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers bod and I know he tested the FAL.

He said that the fully auto feature was deemed useless because after the first round every round after the first would miss due to the recoil - hence why the Inch pattern SLRs were all semi auto
 
...the fully auto feature was deemed useless because after the first round every round after the first would miss due to the recoil - hence why the Inch pattern SLRs were all semi auto
Well, that's how they left the factory. Once they got into the hands of enterprising soldiers, the full-auto function proved surprisingly easy to reinstate, with no tools required other than a matchstick. Even in 1995 there were people in the NZDF who knew that trick, and they hadn't carried SLRs for quite some time.
 
Well, that's how they left the factory. Once they got into the hands of enterprising soldiers, the full-auto function proved surprisingly easy to reinstate, with no tools required other than a matchstick. Even in 1995 there were people in the NZDF who knew that trick, and they hadn't carried SLRs for quite some time.
Even I knew that trick, having learnt it on Initial Employment training in the Australian Army way back in 1978. It was strongly frowned on and a chargeable offense if discovered but every digger tried it at least once. The recoil wasn't quite as bad as advertised but the rifle was still difficult to control IIRC. ;)
 
Even I knew that trick, having learnt it on Initial Employment training in the Australian Army way back in 1978. It was strongly frowned on and a chargeable offense if discovered but every digger tried it at least once. The recoil wasn't quite as bad as advertised but the rifle was still difficult to control IIRC. ;)
Ah, memories. I learnt it too - 1976.
 
Was he in the Skins?

My uncle was an Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers bod and I know he tested the FAL.

He said that the fully auto feature was deemed useless because after the first round every round after the first would miss due to the recoil - hence why the Inch pattern SLRs were all semi auto

No, he was in the Paras. Did a year tour in Malaya and was signed up to do a second year when his patrol was ambushed and he was wounded badly enough to be medivac'd out of the Country.

He never did the second year. Came home and met my mum instead (luckily for me).
 
Well, that's how they left the factory. Once they got into the hands of enterprising soldiers, the full-auto function proved surprisingly easy to reinstate, with no tools required other than a matchstick. Even in 1995 there were people in the NZDF who knew that trick, and they hadn't carried SLRs for quite some time.
I heard about this mod but my time in the Reserves we had L85A1 - which was built as a select fire gun
 
Huh wonder if other than the AT-Guns if the British are still following a similar path to infantry AT arms like the Bomard and the PIAT.
 

Ramp-Rat

Monthly Donor
Huh wonder if other than the AT-Guns if the British are still following a similar path to infantry AT arms like the Bomard and the PIAT.

The Bomard was along with the Smith Gun very much an expedient weapon designed to equip the Home Guard, which I doubt will be developed ITTL. Where as the PIAT was designed for the infantry to be a man portable Anti Tank weapon, to replace the obsolete Boys Anti Tank rifle, and therefore I would expect that something similar would be developed. The British infantry as did all other infantry in every nation, needed a portable Anti Tank weapon, one that could be carried by one man and was effective against all armoured vehicles the infantry might encounter. And while a monster of a weapon, the PIAT in the right hands, ie someone who had received complete and thorough training, was an excellent weapon, with a number of advantages over either the American Bazooka, or the German Panzerfaust, Panzerchreck. It didn’t have a back blast that gave its firing position away, and the lack of a back blast, meant that it could be used inside a closed space without harming its users. In addition it could be used with the HE round as a mortar, something that the American and German AT weapons couldn’t.

RR.
 
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