Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.

[allanpcameron]

1 June 1942. Damascus, Syria.

General Henri Dentz, High Commissioner of Levant and GOC-in-C Levant Forces of the Vichy Regime watched helplessly as a coup unfolded around him. It was bloodless, which was a blessing, but by the end of the day he was simply Henri Dentz.

For over a year the forces of the Free French had been sitting on the borders of Syria and Lebanon, but their agents had been working, with the obvious help of the British, to undermine Dentz’s position and the Vichy Mandate. The Paris Accords had nearly led to war with the British empire forces, but with the failure of the Germans to capture Crete, Wavell realised that there was no real threat from the French. That didn’t stop him surrounding the French Mandate with a growing army that Dentz’s intelligence reckoned would swat the French units aside easily.

Like Weygand in North Africa, Dentz had elected to do nothing to provoke the British, and had simply got on with ruling Syria and Lebanon under the Mandate of the League of Nations.

Free French symbols appeared regularly as graffiti, the use of radio by the Free French spread their propaganda. Dentz’s deputy, Major General Joseph de Verdilhac, was accused of having sold his soul to the Boche as he was released from being a POW to take up this post. ‘Collaborationist’ became a common taunt, with the civilian population being promised freedom and self-determination by the Free French.

The Royal Navy had a particularly good time intercepting merchant ships between France and its Mandate, confiscating anything that could be put to a military use. This was a very loose term which led to shortages of goods in the major cities. The few Vichy ships of the Marine National were on a very short leash, with strict orders not to begin a war. Morale among the French units was being eroded and some of the locally recruited “Troupes spéciales du Levant” were becoming untrustworthy.

Maintaining discipline caused resentment, which in turn led to an open ear to the Free French propaganda. What eventually clinched the argument for a coup was the promise, guaranteed by the British, that any French officers or men who did not wish to join the Free French forces would be safely repatriated to Metropolitan France. The Free French argued that joining them was the best way of bringing France out from under the boot of the Germans. The fact that the British had proven themselves more than capable of resisting the Germans, and indeed defeating them in battle, showed that there was hope for the defeat of Nazism and the complete liberation of France.

The counter-argument to this propaganda was that anyone who joined the so-called Free French might well find their families at home suffering at the hands of the authorities (French and German). This just reinforced the message that although France had lost to the German invasion, the war continued, that their families at home were not free and wouldn’t be until the Germans were defeated.

 

[allanpcameron]

This is a bit out there, but I think it just about works
Allan.

 

[kelgar04]

I have to admitt the lack of the invasion of the French Syria and Lebanon is probably going to do a lot for Franco-British relations post ear, still there is no need to force the issue on the territory as there was OTL so it can be just left to sit there with the Free French Troops glaring at them over the boarder.

 

[federermod]

This was a good flap of the butterfly's wings, I think it makes sense. Perhaps it will finally make Weygand move. The British have been extremely patient with him when they could be saving so many tons of shipping by running regular convoys through the Med.

 

[Ramp-Rat]

And so the first major crack in the Vichy governance in the Mediterranean has occurred, and without the British or Free French military having to invade or a shot being fired. This will only serve to further increase the pressure on Weygand to make the jump himself, and switch sides coming out in favour of the Free French and Allies. In the rest of French Africa, the overwhelming majority of Governors and Military Commanders, are now going to see the way the wind is blowing, and decide to switch sides themselves. Which will only make the pressure on Weygand even greater, as the propaganda efforts by the British and Free French intensify. He Weygand has just a few weeks at most to make his mind up, before the British lose all patience and decide to invade, and remove him and his regime. His forces are growing weaker by the day, and just as the Levant the loyalty of the locally recruited troops will be steadily declining. And the last thing he wants is the British appealing to the locals and the possibility of there being a rebellion against Vichy French rule, which could lead to increased demands for independence. The British want the impasse in the region to be resolved, and to be free to run convoys through the Mediterranean, and exploit the mineral resources of FNA.

RR.

 

[Look More Closely Later]

1 June 1942. Damascus, Syria.

General Henri Dentz, High Commissioner of Levant and GOC-in-C Levant Forces of the Vichy Regime watched helplessly as a coup unfolded around him. It was bloodless, which was a blessing, but by the end of the day he was simply Henri Dentz.

For over a year the forces of the Free French had been sitting on the borders of Syria and Lebanon, but their agents had been working, with the obvious help of the British, to undermine Dentz’s position and the Vichy Mandate. The Paris Accords had nearly led to war with the British empire forces, but with the failure of the Germans to capture Crete, Wavell realised that there was no real threat from the French. That didn’t stop him surrounding the French Mandate with a growing army that Dentz’s intelligence reckoned would swat the French units aside easily.

Like Weygand in North Africa, Dentz had elected to do nothing to provoke the British, and had simply got on with ruling Syria and Lebanon under the Mandate of the League of Nations.

Free French symbols appeared regularly as graffiti, the use of radio by the Free French spread their propaganda. Dentz’s deputy, Major General Joseph de Verdilhac, was accused of having sold his soul to the Boche as he was released from being a POW to take up this post. ‘Collaborationist’ became a common taunt, with the civilian population being promised freedom and self-determination by the Free French.

The Royal Navy had a particularly good time intercepting merchant ships between France and its Mandate, confiscating anything that could be put to a military use. This was a very loose term which led to shortages of goods in the major cities. The few Vichy ships of the Marine National were on a very short leash, with strict orders not to begin a war. Morale among the French units was being eroded and some of the locally recruited “Troupes spéciales du Levant” were becoming untrustworthy.

Maintaining discipline caused resentment, which in turn led to an open ear to the Free French propaganda. What eventually clinched the argument for a coup was the promise, guaranteed by the British, that any French officers or men who did not wish to join the Free French forces would be safely repatriated to Metropolitan France. The Free French argued that joining them was the best way of bringing France out from under the boot of the Germans. The fact that the British had proven themselves more than capable of resisting the Germans, and indeed defeating them in battle, showed that there was hope for the defeat of Nazism and the complete liberation of France.

The counter-argument to this propaganda was that anyone who joined the so-called Free French might well find their families at home suffering at the hands of the authorities (French and German). This just reinforced the message that although France had lost to the German invasion, the war continued, that their families at home were not free and wouldn’t be until the Germans were defeated.

Well, okay, it's out on a limb (the Levant) at the east end of the Mediterranean, so easier to apply pressure.
Not sure what this will do for independence in the area. I think original timeline Syria, etc, got promised independence as part of being militarily rolled over by the Allies and de-vichyfication, and then France in 1945 was less than happy with the idea of letting Syria, etc, go immediately. I may be remembering something wrong, though.

 

[kelgar04]

And so the first major crack in the Vichy governance in the Mediterranean has occurred, and without the British or Free French military having to invade or a shot being fired. This will only serve to further increase the pressure on Weygand to make the jump himself, and switch sides coming out in favour of the Free French and Allies. In the rest of French Africa, the overwhelming majority of Governors and Military Commanders, are now going to see the way the wind is blowing, and decide to switch sides themselves. Which will only make the pressure on Weygand even greater, as the propaganda efforts by the British and Free French intensify. He Weygand has just a few weeks at most to make his mind up, before the British lose all patience and decide to invade, and remove him and his regime. His forces are growing weaker by the day, and just as the Levant the loyalty of the locally recruited troops will be steadily declining. And the last thing he wants is the British appealing to the locals and the possibility of there being a rebellion against Vichy French rule, which could lead to increased demands for independence. The British want the impasse in the region to be resolved, and to be free to run convoys through the Mediterranean, and exploit the mineral resources of FNA.

RR.

Hmm given the way things are shaping up in French Syria and Lebanon it may be wise to give the free French factions in the area the little push to unseat Dentz themselves and declare for Charlie Gaul and then use it as an 'or else' style argument for Weygand.

As well as the usual carrot approach having a popular uprsing unseat the authority may be the moivator that Weygand needs.

 

[Look More Closely Later]

Hmm given the way things are shaping up in French Syria and Lebanon it may be wise to give the free French factions in the area the little push to unseat Dentz themselves and declare for Charlie Gaul and then use it as an 'or else' style argument for Weygand.

As well as the usual carrot approach having a popular uprsing unseat the authority may be the moivator that Weygand needs.

Weygand has the problem that if French North Africa flips, without the Germans occupying European mainland Vichy France first, Weygand gets the blame for the Germans subsequently occupying European mainland Vichy France.
As the Germans will be very pointedly reminding Pétain, Laval, and company, probably, after what has just happened in the Levant.

 

[JWilly48519]

I have to admitt the lack of the invasion of the French Syria and Lebanon is probably going to do a lot for Franco-British relations post ear, still there is no need to force the issue on the territory as there was OTL so it can be just left to sit there with the Free French Troops glaring at them over the boarder.

OTOH, as long as the Free French are hinting at a process toward independence for colonies that switch sides, it would be worthwhile to take account of the Western economic significance of the Lebanese diaspora, and how that might be able to be cranked up by prospects for independence to the even greater benefit of the Allies. Lebanon throughout the 20th century was a place to do business, at whatever scale applied to you, and many in the diaspora would have been excited by opportunities to return to an independent Lebanon and bring their economic assets to bear in the building of a regional trade and professional-services center linked to the major European economies and serving as a hub for regional development.

Lebanon in the 1940s was substantially dominated by the Maronite-Druze "dualism" governmental scheme, with some participation by Greek Orthodox and small numbers of other religions, mostly Christian sects; there were relatively few Syrian Alawites living in Lebanon and perceiving themselves to be Lebanese, and even fewer Sunnis and Shia. The intractable religious frictions that later blocked Lebanon's development and then even its functionality as a nation were not yet present. It was a perfect time to offer independence in return for supportive efforts.

It might have been helpful if the thinkers of the time, of France and elsewhere, had thought through the post-colonial concept of multi-national socioeconomic integration...not dissimilar to the British-anchored Commonwealth concept...and offered that to the pre-war French colonies, instead of assuming or hoping that a colonial empire somehow could be re-constituted.

 

[kelgar04]

British-anchored Commonwealth concept...and offered that to the pre-war French colonies, instead of assuming or hoping that a colonial empire somehow could be re-constituted.

Charlie Gaul may still think that though what's going on may effectively head off the Levant Crisis from OTL.

That is why I think post war Franco-British Relations will be better.

 

[Monty Man]

This all seems very rational given the inability of Axis to project any power in the Med. Weygard/ North African coup/ invasion in June/ July '42 would be extremely impactful ITTL. Case Anton - German annexing Vichy France happened in Nov OTL after Torch with 2 Armies and Italian support in the south. If that has to be done right now OTL in peak - Panzers east - with presumably an even weaker Italy - it will be still be a cake walk for Germany but could provide even more relief to USSR. On a humanitarian note - the major Jewish round up was July '42 so if that can be spared then many many lives may be spared as without Vichy France colloboration it will be much harder / more resources for German to round up so many French Jews in a fully occupied territory. My daughter's French Jewish great aunts/ uncle were all taken, never to be seen again, by Vichy French forces .. not by Germans.

 

[justinmil22]

tbh a case Anton while bad for France mainland is better for the Allies as that means more spies more rebels and more manpower and equipment germany has to use to police all of France

 

[Ramp-Rat]

Should Weygand decide to switch sides, as apposed to the British carrying out a successful invasion of FNA, will make little difference to the Germans. Either way they are going to occupy the remainder of France, in a swift and prepared assault, in conjunction with their Italian allies. This will have very little effect on the ongoing conflict in the East, other than to provide a large rich area to reform and rebuild broken formations, as it did IOTL. Note by rich I refer to the availability of food resources that can be confiscated from the local population to feed the troops and the extensive areas that can be used as training grounds, without having to provide compensation. In regards to the forthcoming round up of the French and refugee Jewish population, given just how much cooperation was given by various French antisemitic groups, especially the French Police forces in both occupied and Vichy France. I personally seriously doubt that there will be significantly greater resistance ITTL than there was IOTL, to this action. It’s just a fact that at this time and had been in French history there was a significant antisemitic movement in the French political spectrum, which was given free reign by the Vichy government. It didn’t help that P Laval the Vichy Prime Minister was at best a closet antisemit and fully supported the German effort to round up the Jewish population in France, especially the Jewish refugees. It should be noted that it is estimated that 90% of the Jewish refugees were deported, in comparison to 50% of the French Jews. Note only two European nations were able to successfully resist the German efforts to round up their Jewish population, Albania were the local Muslim population succeed in hiding their Jewish neighbours, and Denmark were they successfully transferred the overwhelming majority of their Jews to sanctuary in Sweden. Will the British and Free French be able to establish a more extensive resistance network in France, after the German occupation of Vichy, without doubt, as having access to more young French citizens from the colonies will give them a greater pool of people to draw from. In the same way the Free French forces will be able to raise a much larger force, better equipped and trained by the time of the eventual invasion of mainland France. And might possibly be to raise a brigade size infantry force from their professional Colonial Infantry to serve alongside the British in the Far East. Though unlike the forces raised in Europe, who will as they were IOTL, equipped with American weapons, those in the Far East will have British weapons, so as to simplify the the logistics situation.

RR.

 

[Palantir]

Will the British and Free French be able to establish a more extensive resistance network in France, after the German occupation of Vichy, without doubt, as having access to more young French citizens from the colonies will give them a greater pool of people to draw from. In the same way the Free French forces will be able to raise a much larger force, better equipped and trained by the time of the eventual invasion of mainland France. And might possibly be to raise a brigade size infantry force from their professional Colonial Infantry to serve alongside the British in the Far East. Though unlike the forces raised in Europe, who will as they were IOTL, equipped with American weapons, those in the Far East will have British weapons, so as to simplify the the logistics situation.

RR.

The resistance networks in France got a big boost with the invasion of the "Free Zone" of Vichy with elements of the Armistice Army forming the core of what became greats 'Maquis' in the South of France.
Yet, the biggest insentive came later with the 'STO', the Service du Travail Obligatoire, which forced young frenchmen to go work ad slave labour in Germany. Everyone who didn't want to go, had to effectivelly go underground.

 

[kelgar04]

The biggest thing I'm wondering about, though right now with all this talk about what will happen in the advent of a French North African defection is a lot of Former French Soliders are still being used as slave labour in various sectors in Germany as well as other areas and the like as well as the systematic looting of French industrial capacity as well outside of a few larger works.

My wondering is will this be more intensive compared to OTL if there is a defection of French North Africa and other French colonies and territories to the Free French could the Nazis go full stripped earth in the event of Case Anton and loot everything that is left and remove it all to Germany?

 

[ShortsBelfast]

Should Weygand decide to switch sides, as apposed to the British carrying out a successful invasion of FNA, will make little difference to the Germans. Either way they are going to occupy the remainder of France, in a swift and prepared assault, in conjunction with their Italian allies. This will have very little effect on the ongoing conflict in the East, other than to provide a large rich area to reform and rebuild broken formations, as it did IOTL. Note by rich I refer to the availability of food resources that can be confiscated from the local population to feed the troops and the extensive areas that can be used as training grounds, without having to provide compensation. In regards to the forthcoming round up of the French and refugee Jewish population, given just how much cooperation was given by various French antisemitic groups, especially the French Police forces in both occupied and Vichy France. I personally seriously doubt that there will be significantly greater resistance ITTL than there was IOTL, to this action. It’s just a fact that at this time and had been in French history there was a significant antisemitic movement in the French political spectrum, which was given free reign by the Vichy government. It didn’t help that P Laval the Vichy Prime Minister was at best a closet antisemit and fully supported the German effort to round up the Jewish population in France, especially the Jewish refugees. It should be noted that it is estimated that 90% of the Jewish refugees were deported, in comparison to 50% of the French Jews. Note only two European nations were able to successfully resist the German efforts to round up their Jewish population, Albania were the local Muslim population succeed in hiding their Jewish neighbours, and Denmark were they successfully transferred the overwhelming majority of their Jews to sanctuary in Sweden. Will the British and Free French be able to establish a more extensive resistance network in France, after the German occupation of Vichy, without doubt, as having access to more young French citizens from the colonies will give them a greater pool of people to draw from. In the same way the Free French forces will be able to raise a much larger force, better equipped and trained by the time of the eventual invasion of mainland France. And might possibly be to raise a brigade size infantry force from their professional Colonial Infantry to serve alongside the British in the Far East. Though unlike the forces raised in Europe, who will as they were IOTL, equipped with American weapons, those in the Far East will have British weapons, so as to simplify the the logistics situation.

RR.

Bulgaria also had a decent record on protecting their local Jewish population.

 

[Look More Closely Later]

On French North Africa, I would like to direct attention (for those with access to the volume) to the excerpts of his speech of 10th December, 1942, when the UK Parliament was meeting in Secret Session, which Churchill gives in the chapter 'The Darlan Affair' of Volume IV of his WW2 memoirs. He tries to explain very clearly to the House of Commons the position and thinking of a 1942 French representative of the Vichy government presiding over French North Africa, and the difficulties (legal and cultural) that they are in and why - unless the Germans occupy Vichy France first, and the person in charge in North Africa can tell himself that orders coming from Vichy are issued under duress and not lawful - Darlan, OTL, and presumably Weygand, ITTL, is in a great deal of difficulty over the question of switching sides.
I have checked Hansard online for a transcript of the sitting, but unfortuately all it has to say is effectively 'Secret Session'.

 

[Sqdn19]

Bulgaria also had a decent record on protecting their local Jewish population.

IIRC the Hungarians weren’t fully onboard with the Final Solution either, at least until the Nazi takeover.

And I believe the Finns lost 6 or 8 Jews to the holocaust.

 

[mundi_mundi]

IIRC the Hungarians weren’t fully onboard with the Final Solution either, at least until the Nazi takeover.

And I believe the Finns lost 6 or 8 Jews to the holocaust.

I heard once that Finnish Jews on at least one occasion performed temple services next to Nazi formations. According to this it might actually be true: https://jewishstandard.timesofisrael.com/fascinating-history-of-finnish-jews-during-ww2/ Interestingly that article mentions those eight Jews were deported non-Finnish citizens and when it came out it was a massive scandal.

This seems to imply that the only evidence of Finnish anti-Jewish atrocities was by Finnish SS volunteers under German command: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02...rs-were-complicit-in-wwii-atrocities/10798222

But to get this back on the original topic, does the PoD likely affect Finnish tank use/formations at all? My assumption is no, but happy to be corrected.

 

[allanpcameron]

But to get this back on the original topic, does the PoD likely affect Finnish tank use/formations at all? My assumption is no, but happy to be corrected.

I don't believe so, the export version of the Vickers 6 ton which the Finns bought wouldn't have any changes, certainly nothing I've thought about. Going by what is said on the Tanks Encyclopedia, without better Finnish economy, they'd still be without guns etc.
Allan