Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.
- Thread starter allanpcameron
- Start date
The Aussies have plenty of time to prepare since the invasion force would arrive at 23rd of January.
AIUI the US AAF tried to do that with a raid in early 1943. Attempted to drop a 4,000lb bomb into a crater but according to Bruce Gamble (Target Rabaul) they picked the wrong one, as it was for a dormant volcano.
Assuming you pick the right volcano, it sounds like a job for a squadron of Lancasters carrying 22000lb Grand Slam bombs not a puny 4000lb bomb.
At the very least but AFAIK no one has conducted such an experiment.
If the suggested triggered eruption was anything like the one in 1994 it would wreck the place. Poor Rabaul. Here is the Wikipedia article on Rabaul also describing the 1994 eruption and the lingering effects from it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabaul#1994_eruption
The meeting where someone applies for permission to conduct such an experiment would be entertaining.
Especially since, ITTL, Italy is still in the war and Naples is just sitting there... right next to Vesuvius. And by this stage in the war, the Brits were already talking about "earthquake" bombs. Then there was Project SEAL, a joint US-NZ project to develop a tsunami bomb.
Tsunami bomb - Wikipedia
A grand Slam may make a Volcano ready to erupt do so, however unless the Magma chamber is full not much will happen. In the case of Rabaul the use of a Grand Slam in the Harbour may let steam into the Magma chamber with interesting results.
A good portion of the extant Burma force has already been transferred to Malaya, so probably not.
allanpcameron
Donor
Just out of curiosity, if anyone has some information on the development of the Sten smg.
In the aftermath of Dunkirk, I deliberately mentioned that both MP38 and MP40s were part of the captured German armaments brought back.
The Lanchester smg was developed for the RN and RAF as a direct copy of the MP28. What would be chances that with the German machine pistols being used as the basis for the Sten gun?
I suppose the question was whether the Sten would have been any different if the German guns were available for comparison?
I've deliberately not tried to describe the machine carbine carried in the tank turrets, but am curious what the 'gun nuts' think?
Allan.
In the aftermath of Dunkirk, I deliberately mentioned that both MP38 and MP40s were part of the captured German armaments brought back.
The Lanchester smg was developed for the RN and RAF as a direct copy of the MP28. What would be chances that with the German machine pistols being used as the basis for the Sten gun?
I suppose the question was whether the Sten would have been any different if the German guns were available for comparison?
I've deliberately not tried to describe the machine carbine carried in the tank turrets, but am curious what the 'gun nuts' think?
Allan.
I am not a gun nut!
However the Sten was designed principally as a simplified Lanchester SMG which was based on the MP28. BSA had a licence for the Danuvia 39M SMG design by the Hungarian Designer Kirlay. this was a lever delayed design and could have been a reasonable carbine if adopted earlier.
However the Sten was designed principally as a simplified Lanchester SMG which was based on the MP28. BSA had a licence for the Danuvia 39M SMG design by the Hungarian Designer Kirlay. this was a lever delayed design and could have been a reasonable carbine if adopted earlier.
I actually think it may not be. The MP-38 was a fairly complicated and expensive weapon to produce. That is why the Germans made the MP-40, to try and lower the cost through the use of stamping. It helped but that telescoping bolt spring is still a complicated piece of equipment to machine.
The MP-28 on the other hand, was much simpler and cheaper to produce. The Point of the Sten was to be as cheap as possible while still (mostly) working. By far the cheapest way to build a sub machine gun is a direct blowback system, so the delaying system of the MP-38/40 is likely to be dropped anyway. The downward facing magazine can actually be a bit of a pain on the MP-40 and the British wanted the ability to go prone with the weapon so the sideways magazine likely is still the way to go.
It was also rejected by the British Army due to the overly complicated and delicate trigger mechanism. While not a huge problem to solve when you need something right now they made the right choice. It was probably too much gun for an S.M.G. anyway. Now had they kept toying with it and later reworked it to use the US.30 Carbine round instead of developing the No 5 carbine they might have really had something.
To be honest, I think it’s too heavy. Both in weight and weight of fire. The Danuvia was over 9.5 lbs. Even heavier than the Lanchester. And it’s use of lever delayed blowback made it much more complicated to produce then the simple blowback Sten. It could maybe have been a great pre-war SMG and simplifications might have improved it but it would not have had the production efficiency of the Sten.
In addition the 9x25mm cartridge is both heavier (allowing fewer rounds to be carried) and more powerful (making it more difficult to control, a problem made worse by striping down as in the Sten).
Unfortunately the timeline probably does not allow this but if you are looking for a gun that is very cheap to produce (though not quite as much as a Sten) but more reliable and ergonomic You best bet is probably the Owen Gun:
en.m.wikipedia.org
It would probably require either Wardell to get involved in the design earlier or fewer attempts by the Australian military to scuttle it. Preferably both.
www.forgottenweapons.com
The Owen was still a heavy weapon when first produced (9.5 lbs) but they eventually shaved a further pound off of it. If you put a better buttstock on it than the Thompson copy that would make it even better.
But it would take some doing to get it in the right place at the right time and even it wasn’t quite as cheap as the Sten.
Owen gun - Wikipedia
It would probably require either Wardell to get involved in the design earlier or fewer attempts by the Australian military to scuttle it. Preferably both.
The Australian Owen SMG
The Australian Owen SMG was arguably the ugliest and most effective subgun used in WWII. It overcame much resistance from the Army and was used into Vietnam.
www.forgottenweapons.com
The Owen was still a heavy weapon when first produced (9.5 lbs) but they eventually shaved a further pound off of it. If you put a better buttstock on it than the Thompson copy that would make it even better.
But it would take some doing to get it in the right place at the right time and even it wasn’t quite as cheap as the Sten.