No islam Sasanians fall to Seljuk Jews?

I asking if Sasanians survived to 10th century would they be conquered by seljuks
Look frankly we have no idea

The only dynasty I could pull off my head that lasted eight hundred years was the Zhou of China and institutionally it is separated by modern historians into many different periods

We really can't follow if your premise is so vague and half-baked

But if we assume, on the basis of Kavad I and Khosrau I, the centralizing trend of Iran continues for another four hundred years

Whatever Iran is it would look more like a absolutist monarchy than any other 10th century polity

It doesn't matter if it still carries the name Sasan, so long it isn't in civil war the implied levels of societal development would make it impossible for Saljuqs to conquer Iran
 
In the absence of Islam, would it necessarily be a Turkic invasion that conquers the Sassanid Empire? What not another Iranian nomadic group instead? Are the Turks already dominant on the steppe at this time?

Nothing stops a Iranian, or say, a Finno-Ugric or Yeniseian polity to arise but by the time of the late Sassanians the Turkic Gökturk Khaganate had kinda set up shop as the big geopolitical power of the Eurasian Steppe, mostly through Sassanian action (they brought the Turks to kill off the Hephtalites for good - the whole “inviting a new nomadic tribe onto the richest part of the Empire” thing resulted as well as you can imagine).
 
In the absence of Islam, would it necessarily be a Turkic invasion that conquers the Sassanid Empire? What not another Iranian nomadic group instead? Are the Turks already dominant on the steppe at this time?
This , the western Turkic Khagante was in decline around the same time as the Islamic conquest of persia and one most not forget the tang arrival to the region some years later
What happens later would depend on how long tang dominion last and which tribes they prop up
 
the whole “inviting a new nomadic tribe onto the richest part of the Empire” thing resulted as well as you can imagine).
While technically the richest part of Iran is Mesopotamia, your overall point is correct. Sugd is very rich, yet it ended up being the frontier between Iran and the Turks.

Kinda why I boomed the Turks in a reasonable way in the 610s of my timeline.
This , the western Turkic Khagante was in decline around the same time as the Islamic conquest of persia and one most not forget the tang arrival to the region some years later
What happens later would depend on how long tang dominion last and which tribes they prop up
In OTL there is a nigh-thirty-year vacuum between the Goturk collapse (~630) to the Tang expedition (657). It would be an interesting scenario to see what a Sassanian Empire that survived the Muslim invasion would do about this.
 
Somewhere in the vicinity, yeah...
For someone with such a tremendous influence, very little is known about Zarathustra. There seem to be a good many conflicting accounts of where he was from, and even what century he lived in... but the linguistic evidence and certain references in the Zoroastrian scriptures seem to usually point to somewhere in the eastern Iranian Plateau...
Khorasan and its environs are in the vicinity of Central Asia.
 
While technically the richest part of Iran is Mesopotamia, your overall point is correct. Sugd is very rich, yet it ended up being the frontier between Iran and the Turks.

Kinda why I boomed the Turks in a reasonable way in the 610s of my timeline.

In OTL there is a nigh-thirty-year vacuum between the Goturk collapse (~630) to the Tang expedition (657). It would be an interesting scenario to see what a Sassanian Empire that survived the Muslim invasion would do about this.
Possibly nothing important. The Sassanid household is in very difficult times and during the Islamic conquest, was in a state of civil war with the various Great Houses, many of whom had been managing their own realms in blissful ignorance of the Sassanid monarch Yazdegerd IV. A great Sassanid king would be needed to restore the state and also the confidence and interest/alliance of the Great Houses for the Sassanid realm to present any solution to the crisis to its east. If the Sassanid Great King remains more or less the nominal ruler of Iran and the defacto king of Mesopotamia, there could be some Iranian forays into the northeast and the gaining of tributary states from the Sogdian realms, but those expeditions would be implemented by the Great Houses, as opposed to the Sassanid Household.

If the Sassanids can rebuild their alliances with the Great Houses, theoretically a campaign of Iranian forces into the lands of the Sogdians could be possible, however I feel that the Sassanids will focus more intently on recovering the Kushanshah title for their family, recapturing Sakastan, Arachosia and the remainder of Ariana (Afghanistan) and then taking Bactria, reclaiming the critically important Kushanshah title for the Sassanid household. By the time that is completed, the Sassanids will likely have many Sogdian statelets seeking protection from the Sassanid state, followed by Sassanid expeditions periodically against the Karluks and other nomadic Turkic tribes.
 
Possibly nothing important. The Sassanid household is in very difficult times and during the Islamic conquest,
My bad. I meant to say Arab conquest, but something slipped.
Sassanid monarch Yazdegerd IV.
Y. III's rise was the ultimate compromise that ended the battle royale of 628-632. The boy was like 8 at the time, so vying for his regency actually brought the wuzurgan back to the center of power to some extent. Instead of more minding their own business and killing each other.
A great Sassanid king
Would most likely never arise. Thanks Sheroe, we had more than twenty odd candidates and in addition to killing them all you died of the plague. Stupid Kavad II.
restore the state
That is true. Heraclius' strategy was surprisingly destructive for both Rome and Iran. One would have thought he might not have acted the way he did in OTL given he was the Roman Emperor of all things, but since he won there is little finger pointing.
also the confidence and interest/alliance of the Great Houses for the Sassanid realm to present any solution to the crisis to its east.
If the Goturk collapse follows the way it did in OTL, it would be less crisis and more opportunity. For some reason the Goturks simply cannot fight properly after the death of Tong Yagbu Khan. Maybe his loss to the East Turks earlier in his reign gutted the Khaganate.

As for the entire issue of the wuzurgan, I believe Sassanid history (at least, its various surviving fragments) suggest less of a "confederation" model like Prof. Pourshariati's paradigm attempts to demonstrate. Nevertheless, taking the realities of antique government, the aftershocks of Sheroe's plague, and the destruction Heraclius wrought into consideration, ensuring the cooperation of the wuzurgan was necessary to prop the Sassanid Empire back up again.
I feel that the Sassanids will focus more intently on recovering the Kushanshah title for their family, recapturing Sakastan, Arachosia and the remainder of Ariana (Afghanistan) and then taking Bactria, reclaiming the critically important Kushanshah title for the Sassanid household.
Haven't the Sassanids granted Nemroz (at least, what we call Zaranj today) to the Suren after the Kushanshah rebellions became chronic? Why would they want it back all of a sudden, or if only external territorial changes are planned, why would any Sassanid King of Kings want some distant cousin on a Shah-level throne in some war-torn land far from Asurestan?
the Sassanids will likely have many Sogdian statelets seeking protection from the Sassanid state,
Maybe a combination of the Afghrid lands (were they around at this point though) south of the Amul and the riverside/oasis trade cities will form the basis of the post-Goturk map of Sugd. Then we could finally address the question of Sassanid-Tang interactions.
 
Possibly nothing important. The Sassanid household is in very difficult times and during the Islamic conquest, was in a state of civil war with the various Great Houses, many of whom had been managing their own realms in blissful ignorance of the Sassanid monarch Yazdegerd IV. A great Sassanid king would be needed to restore the state and also the confidence and interest/alliance of the Great Houses for the Sassanid realm to present any solution to the crisis to its east. If the Sassanid Great King remains more or less the nominal ruler of Iran and the defacto king of Mesopotamia, there could be some Iranian forays into the northeast and the gaining of tributary states from the Sogdian realms, but those expeditions would be implemented by the Great Houses, as opposed to the Sassanid Household.

If the Sassanids can rebuild their alliances with the Great Houses, theoretically a campaign of Iranian forces into the lands of the Sogdians could be possible, however I feel that the Sassanids will focus more intently on recovering the Kushanshah title for their family, recapturing Sakastan, Arachosia and the remainder of Ariana (Afghanistan) and then taking Bactria, reclaiming the critically important Kushanshah title for the Sassanid household. By the time that is completed, the Sassanids will likely have many Sogdian statelets seeking protection from the Sassanid state, followed by Sassanid expeditions periodically against the Karluks and other nomadic Turkic tribes.
this by that point the turks were already in decline so aside from raids in to persia proper the things would not be conquering the state a great king would be needed as you say since the sittuation would be like the ilkhante when it collapsed
the conquest of central asia took time for the growing caliphate i would say it would take just as long for the sassanid or a new dyansty that take places
 
Would most likely never arise. Thanks Sheroe, we had more than twenty odd candidates and in addition to killing them all you died of the plague. Stupid Kavad II.
who knows? maybe one of the alt sons of Yazdagerd could be that heck you read my timeline and even if the Dabuyid Dynasty is different in reality they were a branch of the Sassanid so cadet branches or a Parthian house leader with Sassanid ancestry could have done something
 
who knows? maybe one of the alt sons of Yazdagerd could be that heck you read my timeline and even if the Dabuyid Dynasty is different in reality they were a branch of the Sassanid so cadet branches or a Parthian house leader with Sassanid ancestry could have done something
Yazdgerd is alternatively 8 or 14 in 632. Which is why I am cutting corners and avoiding Mardanshah's death in the first place.

Besides, no need to deal with the legitimacy fallout if there were sons of Khosrau II in action. Spoiler alert, Khosrau II will die quite soon after the Muslim invasion begins in An Ode to Summer.
 
Yazdgerd is alternatively 8 or 14 in 632. Which is why I am cutting corners and avoiding Mardanshah's death in the first place.

Besides, no need to deal with the legitimacy fallout if there were sons of Khosrau II in action. Spoiler alert, Khosrau II will die quite soon after the Muslim invasion begins in An Ode to Summer.
Interesting but in the early days Rostram seemed to be the most senior of them after the sassanid civil war with no islam i dont think that even he could do much while been a great warrior the court scheming especially with no muslims
 
Interesting but in the early days Rostram seemed to be the most senior of them after the sassanid civil war with no islam i dont think that even he could do much while been a great warrior the court scheming especially with no muslims
Rostam Farrukhzade Ispadbuhan would be a long way from the top if his father Farrukh does not get himself killed in the War of 628-632. Which, if you have read An Ode to Summer, could probably guess is not happening at all.
 
Rostam Farrukhzade Ispadbuhan would be a long way from the top if his father Farrukh does not get himself killed in the War of 628-632. Which, if you have read An Ode to Summer, could probably guess is not happening at all.
oh you are refering to your timeline? i was refering to the OTl Rostram was one of the most powerful this is the one who put boran in to power in 631 and during the civil war Piruz Khosrow was one of his greatest rival and he had other in court so the idea that he could have saved Yazdagerd and the empire in a no islam scenario is unlikely as Piruz and the other nobles would have probably got him killed if his power grew more
 
oh you are refering to your timeline?
Which is why I am cutting corners and avoiding Mardanshah's death in the first place.
Well, of course.
i was refering to the OTL Rostram was one of the most powerful this is the one who put boran in to power in 631 and during the civil war Piruz Khosrow was one of his greatest rival and he had other in court so the idea that he could have saved Yazdagerd and the empire in a no islam scenario is unlikely as Piruz and the other nobles would have probably got him killed if his power grew more
Of course Rostam cannot pull a project as big as empire-saving off on his own. None of the Great Houses could have withstood Islam alone - and by the time they figured that out in OTL it was too late.
 
There is no guarantee Seljuk would even exist in this timeline as Islam fundamentally altered the steppe dynamics that leads to Tuhgril Beg to establish himself and then go into conquering most of Western Asia.

If you're looking for a Turkic conquest of Iran absent of a Arab conquest it more credible, but there are many variables, the Western Khaganate was already holding much of Northern Iran (most likely all the way into Aturpatakan) and the general disfunctionality in the east could mean the Wall of Gorgan would be undermanned and thus Khorasan is exposed from Transcaspia so if the Turks are willingly to move and set shop it is possible.
 
The founder of the Seljuk dynasty was born several centuries after the POD, so in a no islam time line, there would also be no Seljuks.
 
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