Could we see the end of the battleship come early, well before Force Z...??
Force Z. You must be reading my mail.
Happy and Glorious.
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Force Z. You must be reading my mail.
The Swordfish werent OLD they may have looked it but they were still being built in 1944 and flew on combat missions till the end of the war in Europe. The Bristol Pegasus engine was reckoned to have the longest time between overhaul of any WWII British aero engine and was well loved by its pilots for bringing them home with cylinders missing and spewing oil. If I was going to fly any single engined plane in the North Atlantic where there are no fighters it would be the Stringbag.
Happy and Glorious
continued
The weather conditions were far from perfect and the German ships were tearing through the ocean at 29-30 knots.
Despite the immense difficulties that presented themselves, it was still an exhiliarating moment for the Swordfish squadron leader. There would be no air opposition unless they catapulted one of their Arados and even if they did he had brought a couple of friends to deal with that.
The Flare droppers went in first. Immediately two of the German ships erupted into AA fire filling the sky with tracer rounds. For a moment the squadron leader wondered if anything could make it through such a wall of fire but it was only for a moment. Suddenly the flares were deployed and the huge bulk of a German capital ship was lit up like Piccadilly Circus on a Saturday night. The flares partially illuminated the bow of the following German ship too.
"Tally Ho" shouted the observer behind him.
"This isn't fox hunting you fool" rebuked the squadron leader.
"I agree sir. It's much better"
The squadron leader didn't answer. He just smiled as he gently banked his aircraft and turned into a shallow dive before levelling off at just under 100 feet.
Meanwhile Prinz Eugen had increased speed to 31 knots and was now close to the Hipper. She then opened fire with her two front turrets on the the two British cruisers pursuing Hipper. The captain of the Hipper looked up at the sky to thank God. He then ordered his remaining 8" turret to keep firing.
Both Bismarck and Gneisenau were firing together with lines of tracer crossing over each other. The sky looked pretty menacing as they threw up a curtain of tracer bullets and explosions but in truth no one could tell who was firing at what or from where. So far they had identified five Swordfish torpedo attack runs and hadn't seen any of them brought down. On the positive side no torpedo hits. The only drama so far was when Gneisenau had been forced to turn hard to starboard to avoid a torpedo causing the Bismarck to swerve to port to avoid collision.
The Swordfish pilots problem wasn't the AA fire. Miraculously no Swordfish had been lost as yet though one observer had been wounded. The main problem was that the rough sea meant that some of the torpedoes were landing on the crests of the waves instead of the troughs. They needed to drop their fishes into the troughs. Not easy pre dawn.
Admiral Marschall, despite his personal misgivings about the weather conditions, finally allowed Captain Lindemann to order the launch of one of the Arado's to intercept and cause trouble among the attacking biplanes.
"Try not to shoot at me you bastards" the arado pilot stood up and shouted in the general direction of some 3.7 cm AA crews and then sat down and closed the canopy. The engines were already at full throttle and seconds later he was catapulted into the night sky.
Within less than 15 seconds the crew of the Bismarck heard the noise from a Rolls Royce Merlin engine roar above their heads. As they looked up they saw an aircraft fly over the Bismarck at just above mast height. Before the AA crews had time to react the Fulmar was on the tail of the Arado and raking her with machine gun fire. It didn't end well for the luckless Arado or her two man crew.
The Swordfish squadron now began another torpedo run. This time after the flares were deployed another Fulmar had swooped down and strafed the full length of the deck of the German capital ship in an act of initiative that got the pilot both a reprimmand and a round of aplause on the same day.
TBC
continued
The weather conditions were far from perfect and the German ships were tearing through the ocean at 29-30 knots.
Despite the immense difficulties that presented themselves, it was still an exhiliarating moment for the Swordfish squadron leader. There would be no air opposition unless they catapulted one of their Arados and even if they did he had brought a couple of friends to deal with that.
The Flare droppers went in first. Immediately two of the German ships erupted into AA fire filling the sky with tracer rounds. For a moment the squadron leader wondered if anything could make it through such a wall of fire but it was only for a moment. Suddenly the flares were deployed and the huge bulk of a German capital ship was lit up like Piccadilly Circus on a Saturday night. The flares partially illuminated the bow of the following German ship too.
"Tally Ho" shouted the observer behind him.
"This isn't fox hunting you fool" rebuked the squadron leader.
"I agree sir. It's much better"
The squadron leader didn't answer. He just smiled as he gently banked his aircraft and turned into a shallow dive before levelling off at just under 100 feet.
Meanwhile Prinz Eugen had increased speed to 31 knots and was now close to the Hipper. She then opened fire with her two front turrets on the the two British cruisers pursuing Hipper. The captain of the Hipper looked up at the sky to thank God. He then ordered his remaining 8" turret to keep firing.
Both Bismarck and Gneisenau were firing together with lines of tracer crossing over each other. The sky looked pretty menacing as they threw up a curtain of tracer bullets and explosions but in truth no one could tell who was firing at what or from where. So far they had identified five Swordfish torpedo attack runs and hadn't seen any of them brought down. On the positive side no torpedo hits. The only drama so far was when Gneisenau had been forced to turn hard to starboard to avoid a torpedo causing the Bismarck to swerve to port to avoid collision.
The Swordfish pilots problem wasn't the AA fire. Miraculously no Swordfish had been lost as yet though one observer had been wounded. The main problem was that the rough sea meant that some of the torpedoes were landing on the crests of the waves instead of the troughs. They needed to drop their fishes into the troughs. Not easy pre dawn.
Admiral Marschall, despite his personal misgivings about the weather conditions, finally allowed Captain Lindemann to order the launch of one of the Arado's to intercept and cause trouble among the attacking biplanes.
"Try not to shoot at me you bastards" the arado pilot stood up and shouted in the general direction of some 3.7 cm AA crews and then sat down and closed the canopy. The engines were already at full throttle and seconds later he was catapulted into the night sky.
Within less than 15 seconds the crew of the Bismarck heard the noise from a Rolls Royce Merlin engine roar above their heads. As they looked up they saw an aircraft fly over the Bismarck at just above mast height. Before the AA crews had time to react the Fulmar was on the tail of the Arado and raking her with machine gun fire. It didn't end well for the luckless Arado or her two man crew.
The Swordfish squadron now began another torpedo run. This time after the flares were deployed another Fulmar had swooped down and strafed the full length of the deck of the German capital ship in an act of initiative that got the pilot both a reprimmand and a round of aplause on the same day.
TBC
The aircraft are similar in virtually every measure apart from wing area 607 sq ft for the Stringbag and 489 sq ft for the Shark. Perhaps that extra wing area made for better handling.
I believe the lower wing loading made it better for operating off very small decks, such as escort carriers and MAC ships.
"The Swordfish squadron now began another torpedo run. This time after the flares were deployed another Fulmar had swooped down and strafed the full length of the deck of the German capital ship in an act of initiative that got the pilot both a reprimmand and a round of aplause on the same day."
Still think several bombs from dive-bombers would make a better mess of the AA positions. Though granted it wouldn't be easy in the half light, but not impossible.
Still think several bombs from dive-bombers would make a better mess of the AA positions. Though granted it wouldn't be easy in the half light, but not impossible.
usertron2020
Donor
I believe the USN did give some SBDs and Helldivers to the RN but the Admiralty preferred to use fighter-bombers in the dive-bombing role instead.
Happy and Glorious
continued
"Wait......wait.........wait.....NOW!" cries the observer
The torpedo drops into the trough of the wave.
"We have a runner"
The Swordfish swerves away. The observer ignores the the 3.7 cm projectiles that are flying all around him and notices the triple turrets on the ship.
Wumph!
A spout of water more than a hundred feet high rises above the port side of the ship.
"Sir. We have just hit the Gneisenau"
"You mean Bismarck don't you Ted?"
"No sir. I mean the Gneisenau. We have been attacking Gneisenau the whole time"
"Bugger"
The Gneisenau was hit again before the Swordfish ended their attack and returned to the Glorious.
The information possessed by the Swordfish crew was based on the final report from the Suffolk that said that the order of German ships was Prinz Eugen leading, then Bismarck and finally Gneisenau. With the darkness and still primitive radar equipment the Swordfish crew were ordered to attack the ship in the middle. Unfortunately, the Gneisenau had been ordered to exchange places with Bismarck only moments before the Swordfish descended.
The Gneisenau was in no danger of sinking but she was forced to reduce speed to 22 knots. She informed Admiral Marschall of her situation.
Meanwhile the Norfolk had an 8" turret destroyed while Suffolk had taken 3 8" hits. There were 3 dead on Norfolk and 8 on the Suffolk. With her radar damaged Suffolk found it difficult to hit the Prinz Eugen. Norfolk was able to straddle but that's all.
Rear-Admiral Wake-Walker decided to disengage and perhaps even draw the enemy towards Hood and Prince of Wales.
The Prinz Eugen and the Hipper were now together and the Hipper had finally brought her fires under control. However she was in no real fighting condition.
Admiral Marschall had done some frantic mental calculations and came to the conclusion that the Swordfish had come from a carrier fairly nearby. The reason why he figured nearby was because of the destroyers that Hipper encountered earlier and the fact that the destroyers attacked very aggressively to the point of suicide instead of trying to draw the Hipper to the Hood and Prince of Wales. In other words they were behaving like they were trying to protect something.
Was it the British carrier? He began to study the maps intently. He had to hurry. Dawn was almost here and he was 100% sure the Swordfish would be back. The British carrier was probably no more 50 miles away. He guessed this from the Hipper/destroyer action the course of the Hipper until intercepted by the British cruisers and the fact that the carrier would act independently of but not too far from, the Hood.
He was right.
Admiral Holland read the messages concerning the torpedo attack. 'Two hits confirmed and one probable'. That was good. 'Gneisenau attacked instead of Bismarck'. Not so good.
Admiral Holland screwed up the paper into a ball and threw it on the floor. A subordinate picked it up. Not good to throw away a paper trail he thought. Holland was silent for a few moments and then his mood improved.
"Well gentleman, I suppose 2 torpedoes into the Gneisenau does more damage than 2 into the Bismarck. We still have time to finish them"
He then ordered Glorious to send in its second wave and try to hit the right bloody ship this time.
continued
"Wait......wait.........wait.....NOW!" cries the observer
The torpedo drops into the trough of the wave.
"We have a runner"
The Swordfish swerves away. The observer ignores the the 3.7 cm projectiles that are flying all around him and notices the triple turrets on the ship.
Wumph!
A spout of water more than a hundred feet high rises above the port side of the ship.
"Sir. We have just hit the Gneisenau"
"You mean Bismarck don't you Ted?"
"No sir. I mean the Gneisenau. We have been attacking Gneisenau the whole time"
"Bugger"
The Gneisenau was hit again before the Swordfish ended their attack and returned to the Glorious.
The information possessed by the Swordfish crew was based on the final report from the Suffolk that said that the order of German ships was Prinz Eugen leading, then Bismarck and finally Gneisenau. With the darkness and still primitive radar equipment the Swordfish crew were ordered to attack the ship in the middle. Unfortunately, the Gneisenau had been ordered to exchange places with Bismarck only moments before the Swordfish descended.
The Gneisenau was in no danger of sinking but she was forced to reduce speed to 22 knots. She informed Admiral Marschall of her situation.
Meanwhile the Norfolk had an 8" turret destroyed while Suffolk had taken 3 8" hits. There were 3 dead on Norfolk and 8 on the Suffolk. With her radar damaged Suffolk found it difficult to hit the Prinz Eugen. Norfolk was able to straddle but that's all.
Rear-Admiral Wake-Walker decided to disengage and perhaps even draw the enemy towards Hood and Prince of Wales.
The Prinz Eugen and the Hipper were now together and the Hipper had finally brought her fires under control. However she was in no real fighting condition.
Admiral Marschall had done some frantic mental calculations and came to the conclusion that the Swordfish had come from a carrier fairly nearby. The reason why he figured nearby was because of the destroyers that Hipper encountered earlier and the fact that the destroyers attacked very aggressively to the point of suicide instead of trying to draw the Hipper to the Hood and Prince of Wales. In other words they were behaving like they were trying to protect something.
Was it the British carrier? He began to study the maps intently. He had to hurry. Dawn was almost here and he was 100% sure the Swordfish would be back. The British carrier was probably no more 50 miles away. He guessed this from the Hipper/destroyer action the course of the Hipper until intercepted by the British cruisers and the fact that the carrier would act independently of but not too far from, the Hood.
He was right.
Admiral Holland read the messages concerning the torpedo attack. 'Two hits confirmed and one probable'. That was good. 'Gneisenau attacked instead of Bismarck'. Not so good.
Admiral Holland screwed up the paper into a ball and threw it on the floor. A subordinate picked it up. Not good to throw away a paper trail he thought. Holland was silent for a few moments and then his mood improved.
"Well gentleman, I suppose 2 torpedoes into the Gneisenau does more damage than 2 into the Bismarck. We still have time to finish them"
He then ordered Glorious to send in its second wave and try to hit the right bloody ship this time.
Looking realistic, and now the germans have a problem, with Gneisnau slowed...leave her? try and fix her and get her up to speed? (not so easy in the bad weather)...stay with her and risk the RN turning up in a mob...
I dont think the Germans have any realistic chance of chasing down a carrier when they dont know where it is. Glorious has a speed of over 30kt, which means she can keep away from the Germans, and every hour spent chainsg her is an hour for the RN to turn up, AND burns irreplacable fuel at a high rate. Speed is a dilemma now. The RN heavies have a closer base than Norway (so they run their fuel down more), and the closer base for the German fleet is France. Unfortunately, guess whats heading towards them from that direction....
I know your doing the story with the current ships, but it would be nice whats hapenning with the RN reinforcements....chart?? pretty please??
I dont think the Germans have any realistic chance of chasing down a carrier when they dont know where it is. Glorious has a speed of over 30kt, which means she can keep away from the Germans, and every hour spent chainsg her is an hour for the RN to turn up, AND burns irreplacable fuel at a high rate. Speed is a dilemma now. The RN heavies have a closer base than Norway (so they run their fuel down more), and the closer base for the German fleet is France. Unfortunately, guess whats heading towards them from that direction....
I know your doing the story with the current ships, but it would be nice whats hapenning with the RN reinforcements....chart?? pretty please??
I just had a thought about divebombers....
The FAA was the first navy to sink a ship using divebombers, a German cruiser.
I dont believe the RN 500lb bombs will do much damage to B or G, but they could seriously damage one of the German cruisers. If nothing else, that would seriously discourage the only ship really fast enough to chase down Glorious from doing that...
Hippers deck protection was only the same as Konigsburgs.
The FAA was the first navy to sink a ship using divebombers, a German cruiser.
I dont believe the RN 500lb bombs will do much damage to B or G, but they could seriously damage one of the German cruisers. If nothing else, that would seriously discourage the only ship really fast enough to chase down Glorious from doing that...
Hippers deck protection was only the same as Konigsburgs.
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Dive bombers have crossed my mind many times while writing this but in the end I figured Glorious wouldn't have too much of a mix of aircraft by this stage. I think it would look too convenient if I had Swordfish, Fulmars and Skuas.
I would love to have an attack with Fulmars strafing (did that), a torpedo attack absorbing the attention of the AA batteries while from above Skuas dive down and cause havoc.
I am trying to keep it as realisitc as possible so I have to have the British lacking a few things here and there.
Thars true..
I dont know off hand what the aircraft mixes of Victorious and Ark Royal were at this point in time, I'd guess Glorious would be similar. Wonder if either of them still had skuas?
Keep going
usertron2020
Donor
Thars true..
I dont know off hand what the aircraft mixes of Victorious and Ark Royal were at this point in time, I'd guess Glorious would be similar. Wonder if either of them still had skuas?
Keep going
They were just about in the process of being completely withdrawn from front line action at this time. You'd have to know the aircraft complement history of each ship to know their inventory ITTL.
NOTE: Since Glorious HAS NOT BEEN SUNK, this means the writer is more or less free to stuff the ship with whatever aircraft she can handle. I recommend Harriers.
Skuas, Swordfish, Rocs, Fulmars, Barracudas. *SHEESH* If there was one field of endeavor in which the British Empire failed at more or less completely, it was in the field of naval attack aircraft. Only the Sea Hurricanes and Seafires were real successes.
Thank God German naval AA tech was so poor during the time that most of these aircraft were still being used in battle. Note: the Barracudas were quite serviceable for use against the Germans, but really couldn't deal with conditions in the Pacific and had to be withdrawn in favor of Grumman Avengers. In fact, by the time of the Okinawa Operation, except for Seafires, pretty much ALL the aircraft in the five British fleet carriers in the British Pacific Fleet operating with Halsey were American (Wildcats, Corsairs, and Avengers).Sior
Banned
They were just about in the process of being completely withdrawn from front line action at this time. You'd have to know the aircraft complement history of each ship to know their inventory ITTL.
NOTE: Since Glorious HAS NOT BEEN SUNK, this means the writer is more or less free to stuff the ship with whatever aircraft she can handle. I recommend Harriers.
Skuas, Swordfish, Rocs, Fulmars, Barracudas. *SHEESH* If there was one field of endeavor in which the British Empire failed at more or less completely, it was in the field of naval attack aircraft. Only the Sea Hurricanes and Seafires were real successes.
That's what you get when in the years between the wars all aircraft specifications for the FAA were drawn up by RAF officers with no experence of ship board operations and a distaste for airmen with wet feet.
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