Those ships weren't just suddenly in the Pacific. They were all part of the Confederate pacific fleet based at La Paz.
Remember this was Forrests war so why wouldn't he make sure and have a fleet in the Pacific before the war stated
Don't You Know That Cotton's King!: Redux TL
- Thread starter herricks
- Start date
Those ships weren't just suddenly in the Pacific. They were all part of the Confederate pacific fleet based at La Paz.
Remember this was Forrests war so why wouldn't he make sure and have a fleet in the Pacific before the war stated
Admiral Halsey
Banned
10 years is not enough time(unless you're the RN of the era) to build a fleet big enough of BOTH sides of the nation and also La Paz would have to have everything built in order for it to be able to support a fleet of any size which again would take longer then 10 years. In reality the CSA would be looking at a 30 year or so project at least and even then they'd have to take a lot of money from the other side of the military equation. The CSA can either be a decent land power or a decent naval power, it has neither the money, manpower or capability to have both be decent let alone good.
The insurgents wanted to support us in Cuba since they thought (fooish them) that we were supporting their independence. However, many in the US Army did not want the support of armed and trained black soldiers.
Dark Days
When photos were shown in the Confederacy of Confederate and Cuban soldiers working together it showed the Cubans being white or mestizo when the reality was many of the insurgents were black. During the war this was begrudgingly accepted by the army as necessary to win the war. The support given to the Confederates by the insurgents was mainly because they believed that Richmond would grant them independence after Spain was defeated. That however wasn't happening and Confederate forces were moving in to stay.
Slavery had been abolished in Cuba since before the war began but now the Confederacy under Forrest's intent slavery would be reinstituted on the island. By the end of 1895 hundreds of slaves had been sent to Cuba. Transferring slaves from the mainland however wouldn't make up for all the manpower that would be needed. In July 1896 President Forrest passed a bill that made the previous emancipation of Cuban slaves invalid and ordered the army to round up the “fugitive” slaves in Cuba.
These free black Cubans however were not only armed but had years of combat experience and upon learning of this wold rebel. Confederate occupation forces soon found themselves suffering the same plague that the Spanish had face before. Within three months nearly the whole island was engulfed in rebellion which was quickly overwhelming the small occupation army the had been left on the island. In September 1896 President Forrest ordered 50,000 additional troops to be sent to Cuba and the rebellion to be crushed by any means necessary.
While this revolt was being called the Negro Rebellion it wasn't just black Cubans rebelling but all Cubans. General Gordon, who had been placed as Cuba's military governor, established concentration camps throughout the island which were filled to the brim with non black Cuban rebels and those suspected of either being or supporting the rebels. Conditions in the camp were horrid and it is calculated that as much as 50% of those that entered the camps died at the camps. For the blacks it was another story entirely. Nearly all male blacks of fighting age were killed as they were caught. Mass graves filled with dozens, sometimes over a hundred, bodies were strung all over Cuba. For the women and children however their fate could be considered worse than death as they were forced back into slavery usually facing some of the most horrid conditions imaginable.
Correspondents from several nations had been in Cuba for the Hispanio-Confederate War and many were still present for the Negro Rebellion. While the Confederates were trying to cover up the massacre of the blacks in the Confederacy photo's proving it got out going to the US, Britain, France, and others. The world would be appalled the Confederacy's atrocities and would demand Richmond to stop. In Britain the people had had enough of the Confederacy's hold on slavery. On October 27, 1896 London demanded that President Forrest cease all genocidal actions in Cuba and release its Cuban prisoners and illegally enslaved black Cubans. Britain also urged Forrest to begin taking steps to grant Cuba its independence and even offered to assist Richmond in this. Forrest's answer to Britain's demand was a more diplomatic term of mind your on business and fuck off.
When photos were shown in the Confederacy of Confederate and Cuban soldiers working together it showed the Cubans being white or mestizo when the reality was many of the insurgents were black. During the war this was begrudgingly accepted by the army as necessary to win the war. The support given to the Confederates by the insurgents was mainly because they believed that Richmond would grant them independence after Spain was defeated. That however wasn't happening and Confederate forces were moving in to stay.
Slavery had been abolished in Cuba since before the war began but now the Confederacy under Forrest's intent slavery would be reinstituted on the island. By the end of 1895 hundreds of slaves had been sent to Cuba. Transferring slaves from the mainland however wouldn't make up for all the manpower that would be needed. In July 1896 President Forrest passed a bill that made the previous emancipation of Cuban slaves invalid and ordered the army to round up the “fugitive” slaves in Cuba.
These free black Cubans however were not only armed but had years of combat experience and upon learning of this wold rebel. Confederate occupation forces soon found themselves suffering the same plague that the Spanish had face before. Within three months nearly the whole island was engulfed in rebellion which was quickly overwhelming the small occupation army the had been left on the island. In September 1896 President Forrest ordered 50,000 additional troops to be sent to Cuba and the rebellion to be crushed by any means necessary.
While this revolt was being called the Negro Rebellion it wasn't just black Cubans rebelling but all Cubans. General Gordon, who had been placed as Cuba's military governor, established concentration camps throughout the island which were filled to the brim with non black Cuban rebels and those suspected of either being or supporting the rebels. Conditions in the camp were horrid and it is calculated that as much as 50% of those that entered the camps died at the camps. For the blacks it was another story entirely. Nearly all male blacks of fighting age were killed as they were caught. Mass graves filled with dozens, sometimes over a hundred, bodies were strung all over Cuba. For the women and children however their fate could be considered worse than death as they were forced back into slavery usually facing some of the most horrid conditions imaginable.
Correspondents from several nations had been in Cuba for the Hispanio-Confederate War and many were still present for the Negro Rebellion. While the Confederates were trying to cover up the massacre of the blacks in the Confederacy photo's proving it got out going to the US, Britain, France, and others. The world would be appalled the Confederacy's atrocities and would demand Richmond to stop. In Britain the people had had enough of the Confederacy's hold on slavery. On October 27, 1896 London demanded that President Forrest cease all genocidal actions in Cuba and release its Cuban prisoners and illegally enslaved black Cubans. Britain also urged Forrest to begin taking steps to grant Cuba its independence and even offered to assist Richmond in this. Forrest's answer to Britain's demand was a more diplomatic term of mind your on business and fuck off.
Admiral Halsey
Banned
Ok color me impressed with this update. This easily strikes me as something the CSA would do and would cause it to become a Pariah nation. Ok now i'm expecting the CSA to become isolated diplomatically, WW1 to break out in Europe and with its allies pissed about how it handled Cuba when the US attacks they tell them "Oh well you wanted us to leave you alone with Cuba so you can obviously handle the US while we're busy in Europe".
Boxing Match
Following the US's defeat in the Great War the Republican Party was almost destroyed. To take its mind off of the loss of the southern states the US would conduct a rapid expansion westward rolling up nearly all of the Indian tribes within its borders in just over a decade. In 1872 the US would complete the transcontinental railroad connecting the east and west coast. By the War of Mexican Succession revanchism had began to grow within the US, however they could go to war with neither the Confederacy or Britain without the other coming to the attacked's aid. Keeping its focus away from both Britain and the Confederacy US President Grover Cleveland purchased Alaska from Russia for 7 million in March 1884 to help Russia pay for its participation in the Turkish War of 1883 which would almost make up for the amount of territory lost in the Confederacy's secession.
In 1888 the first Republican since Lincoln was elected with Jams G. Blaine coming to office. From April 11-June 1, 1890 President Blaine led the US to victory in its first war since the Great War in the Hawaiian War which brought the Hawaiian Islands under American control. This was enough to get Blaine reelected in 1892 and his second term saw the US in another war when it fought Colombia in the Colombian-American War from August 20, 1893-January 29,1895 which the US acquired the Isthmus of Panama. While Panama would be granted independence in 1901 the US kept the rights to construct and maintain a canal connecting the Caribbean and Pacific which construction had began on in 1897.
The Confederacy's near genocide of black Cubans caused an uproar throughout most of the modern world. In December 1896 delegates from the US, Britain, France, Germany, and Italy met in Berlin to discuss the growing problem in Cuba. All agreed that something had to be done and would all begin an immediate embargo on the Confederacy. By May 1897 however the embargo had had no effect on the Confederacy's war in Cuba and thousands more Cubans had been killed. On May 25,1897 the US, Britain, France, Germany, and Italy signed the Treaty of Berlin and creating the Five Nation Alliance that was tasked with ending the Confederate genocide in Cuba. On July 2,1897 22 American, 18 British, 13 French, 11 German, and 7 Italian warships arrived off of Cuba beginning a blockade of the island.
Following the US's defeat in the Great War the Republican Party was almost destroyed. To take its mind off of the loss of the southern states the US would conduct a rapid expansion westward rolling up nearly all of the Indian tribes within its borders in just over a decade. In 1872 the US would complete the transcontinental railroad connecting the east and west coast. By the War of Mexican Succession revanchism had began to grow within the US, however they could go to war with neither the Confederacy or Britain without the other coming to the attacked's aid. Keeping its focus away from both Britain and the Confederacy US President Grover Cleveland purchased Alaska from Russia for 7 million in March 1884 to help Russia pay for its participation in the Turkish War of 1883 which would almost make up for the amount of territory lost in the Confederacy's secession.
In 1888 the first Republican since Lincoln was elected with Jams G. Blaine coming to office. From April 11-June 1, 1890 President Blaine led the US to victory in its first war since the Great War in the Hawaiian War which brought the Hawaiian Islands under American control. This was enough to get Blaine reelected in 1892 and his second term saw the US in another war when it fought Colombia in the Colombian-American War from August 20, 1893-January 29,1895 which the US acquired the Isthmus of Panama. While Panama would be granted independence in 1901 the US kept the rights to construct and maintain a canal connecting the Caribbean and Pacific which construction had began on in 1897.
The Confederacy's near genocide of black Cubans caused an uproar throughout most of the modern world. In December 1896 delegates from the US, Britain, France, Germany, and Italy met in Berlin to discuss the growing problem in Cuba. All agreed that something had to be done and would all begin an immediate embargo on the Confederacy. By May 1897 however the embargo had had no effect on the Confederacy's war in Cuba and thousands more Cubans had been killed. On May 25,1897 the US, Britain, France, Germany, and Italy signed the Treaty of Berlin and creating the Five Nation Alliance that was tasked with ending the Confederate genocide in Cuba. On July 2,1897 22 American, 18 British, 13 French, 11 German, and 7 Italian warships arrived off of Cuba beginning a blockade of the island.
James G Blaine, the man from Maine.....
fyi his terms as president are over now
That still does not change my statement.
But, for what its worth, its kinda surprising and refreshing for him to not be President when fighting the Confederacy.
Admiral Halsey
Banned
Ok Herricks I may have some issues still with TL but you are making up for it now. I'm guessing his is how you intend the CSA to abolish slavery and having it be done with a gun held to its head is something I didn't expect. Who's President BTW? A TR who earned war hero status in Columbia instead of Cuba?
I see protesters in the streets of many cities "Blockade creates famine" ... guess who gets not enough Food
guess who gets not enough Food President in his mid-70s. Seems he is going rather mad, if you ask me.
Hot Water Rising
President Forrest was livid with rage over the Blockade of Cuba. While General Gordon had stockpiles of supplies with his army in Cuba at 60,000 troops, 50,000 more than usual, these wouldn't last long. For three weeks the Allies blockade kept nobody from entering or leaving Cuba except for Red Cross vessels coming from one of the Allied nations. The Allies, mainly Britain, continued talks with Richmond to agree to turn over control of Cuba to the Allies who would grant it independence. Forrest refused and demanded that the “hostile” acts against the Confederacy to end immediately. On August 5 after yet another futile attempt by allied diplomats that turned exceptionally heated, President Forrest in his rage threw the delegations from the US, Britain, France, Germany, and Italy out of the Confederacy and ordered the Confederate delegations in said countries to return home immediately.
The next day Forrest telegraphed Vice Admiral August Monroe commanding the Confederate Fleet based in Santiago to set sail and break the blockade of Cuba. Upon getting these orders Admiral Monroe refused the suicidal order. General Gordon had also gotten instructions from Forrest and unlike Monroe would follow through with the orders. On the night of August 20 two Confederate torpedo boats silently sailed out of Havana harbor to attack the blockading allied warships the Confederate targets being the largest the German battleship SMS Wörth and the British battleship HMS Royal Sovereign. Around 500AM these torpedo boats released six torpedoes, three each, at the two battleships. Of those aimed at the Royal Sovereign two would miss their targets while the third failed to detonate. The SMS Wörth however wasn't so lucky, while the first torpedo missed the next two struck home and detonated. The Wörth would sink in just 25 minutes and take 209 German sailors down with it. Within minutes of the attack Allied warships off Havana opened up on the vessels and city. For the next nineteen hours Allied warships pounded anything looking military in and around Havana to dust killing and wounding hundreds.
Following the sinking of the Wörth the Allies reevaluated their goals against the Confederacy. Over the next month and a half the Allies greatly increased the forces that they were bringing to the table against the Confederacy. The US was bringing by far the largest as its navy and 600,000 regular and reserve soldiers mobilized and sent to areas along the border. Britain came in second with its naval presence increasing to over 50 vessels and 50,000 British and colonial, mostly Canadian, were moved to the West Indies in preparation for actions against the Confederacy. In third Germany sent 20,000 troops, split between going to Maryland and Jamacia, and up'ed its naval force to 24. France had 17,000 troops sent to Mexico, adding to 35,000 Mexican troops who had became an unofficial member, and 20 ships. And finally Italy sent 7500 troops to the British West Indies and up'ed its navy to 14.
On November 21 a blockade of the Confederate mainland was declared and allied warships moved to blockade the Confederacy. So far besides the action off of Havana no hostile actions between the Confederacy and the Allies had occurred, despite Forrest's continued threats, however the genocide in Cuba continued. On December 1 an army made up of 10,000 American, 20,000 British, 10,000 German, and 5000 Italian troops landed in southern Cuba unopposed. Cuban insurgents had Confederate soldiers tied down across much of the islands and so the only major force in southern Cuba able to defend against the Allies was Admiral Monroe's fleet. Monroe was unwilling to risk his men or his fleet in a futile attempt to stop the Allies. Ten days after they landed Admiral Monroe surrendered Santiago to the Allies with him and his men and ships interned by the British.
President Forrest was furious on hearing of Monroe's surrender and ordered General Gordon to immediately move to retake Santiago and his navy. On December 20 General Gordon assembled 25,000 men at Camagüey and began marching south quickly. Twelve days later on January 1,1898 Gordon attacked an allied force of 5000 American, 3000 German, 2000 British, and 7500 Cuban insurgents commanded by Field Marshall Alfred von Waldersee, commanding all allied forces in Cuba, near Bayamo. The Battle of Bayamo saw Gordon use his numbers to attempt and overrun the allies. The allies weren't Spanish conscripts however and, armed with a number of Maxim Guns, would mow down mounds of Confederates. After thirteen hours of battle General Gordon ordered his force to withdraw. The route of retreat however was blocked by the arrival of an additional 2000 American and 4500 Cubans who had managed to get behind the Confederates. The Battle of Bayamo would be extended for another seven hours before General Gordon would surrender.
During the battle the Confederacy had suffered over 10,000 casualties not including those surrendered while the allies and Cubans nearly 6000. For commanding over the Confederates conducted the genocide in Cuba General Gordon and a number of his subordinates would be arrested and sent to London to be tried for these crimes. With Gordon gone General Robert E. Lee Jr was the next senior not captured, on January 12 after meeting with Waldersee Lee would surrender control of Cuba to the allies after assurances that the his men would be treated fairly. By the end of the month all of Cuba was under Allied control.
The loss of Cuba, along with a bloodless expedition of Puerto Rico by 5000 Americans under Major General Nelson Miles on January 25, was to much for President Forrest. On the morning of February 20 President Forrest called General-in-Chief George Washington Custis Lee to the Grey House. Forrest told Lee that the Confederate Army was to attack the US and capture Washington, Columbus, and Los Angeles in a punch to quickly knock out the US. Forrest was sure that after the US was subdued that the Five-Nation Alliance would quickly crumble.
The invasion was set to begin at 6:00AM on February 22. At 6:00 AM on the day of the invasion President Forrest had already been up and awaiting word on the progress of the invasion. Gunfire was suddenly heard outside the Grey House which the began within the building itself. Armed Confederate soldiers would burst into President Forrest's room followed quickly by General Lee. Lee informed the President that he was no longer in power and wouldn't destroy the nation in a suicidal attempt to stop the inevitable change. Now ex-President Forrest was placed under house arrest with a battalion of Confederate soldiers set up around the Grey House to guard. For the moment anyway General Lee would head a committee of like minded officers in the Army and Navy that was now in control of the Confederacy. The next day a special Confederate envoy was sent to Washington to talk about ending the current crisis.
President Forrest was livid with rage over the Blockade of Cuba. While General Gordon had stockpiles of supplies with his army in Cuba at 60,000 troops, 50,000 more than usual, these wouldn't last long. For three weeks the Allies blockade kept nobody from entering or leaving Cuba except for Red Cross vessels coming from one of the Allied nations. The Allies, mainly Britain, continued talks with Richmond to agree to turn over control of Cuba to the Allies who would grant it independence. Forrest refused and demanded that the “hostile” acts against the Confederacy to end immediately. On August 5 after yet another futile attempt by allied diplomats that turned exceptionally heated, President Forrest in his rage threw the delegations from the US, Britain, France, Germany, and Italy out of the Confederacy and ordered the Confederate delegations in said countries to return home immediately.
The next day Forrest telegraphed Vice Admiral August Monroe commanding the Confederate Fleet based in Santiago to set sail and break the blockade of Cuba. Upon getting these orders Admiral Monroe refused the suicidal order. General Gordon had also gotten instructions from Forrest and unlike Monroe would follow through with the orders. On the night of August 20 two Confederate torpedo boats silently sailed out of Havana harbor to attack the blockading allied warships the Confederate targets being the largest the German battleship SMS Wörth and the British battleship HMS Royal Sovereign. Around 500AM these torpedo boats released six torpedoes, three each, at the two battleships. Of those aimed at the Royal Sovereign two would miss their targets while the third failed to detonate. The SMS Wörth however wasn't so lucky, while the first torpedo missed the next two struck home and detonated. The Wörth would sink in just 25 minutes and take 209 German sailors down with it. Within minutes of the attack Allied warships off Havana opened up on the vessels and city. For the next nineteen hours Allied warships pounded anything looking military in and around Havana to dust killing and wounding hundreds.
Following the sinking of the Wörth the Allies reevaluated their goals against the Confederacy. Over the next month and a half the Allies greatly increased the forces that they were bringing to the table against the Confederacy. The US was bringing by far the largest as its navy and 600,000 regular and reserve soldiers mobilized and sent to areas along the border. Britain came in second with its naval presence increasing to over 50 vessels and 50,000 British and colonial, mostly Canadian, were moved to the West Indies in preparation for actions against the Confederacy. In third Germany sent 20,000 troops, split between going to Maryland and Jamacia, and up'ed its naval force to 24. France had 17,000 troops sent to Mexico, adding to 35,000 Mexican troops who had became an unofficial member, and 20 ships. And finally Italy sent 7500 troops to the British West Indies and up'ed its navy to 14.
On November 21 a blockade of the Confederate mainland was declared and allied warships moved to blockade the Confederacy. So far besides the action off of Havana no hostile actions between the Confederacy and the Allies had occurred, despite Forrest's continued threats, however the genocide in Cuba continued. On December 1 an army made up of 10,000 American, 20,000 British, 10,000 German, and 5000 Italian troops landed in southern Cuba unopposed. Cuban insurgents had Confederate soldiers tied down across much of the islands and so the only major force in southern Cuba able to defend against the Allies was Admiral Monroe's fleet. Monroe was unwilling to risk his men or his fleet in a futile attempt to stop the Allies. Ten days after they landed Admiral Monroe surrendered Santiago to the Allies with him and his men and ships interned by the British.
President Forrest was furious on hearing of Monroe's surrender and ordered General Gordon to immediately move to retake Santiago and his navy. On December 20 General Gordon assembled 25,000 men at Camagüey and began marching south quickly. Twelve days later on January 1,1898 Gordon attacked an allied force of 5000 American, 3000 German, 2000 British, and 7500 Cuban insurgents commanded by Field Marshall Alfred von Waldersee, commanding all allied forces in Cuba, near Bayamo. The Battle of Bayamo saw Gordon use his numbers to attempt and overrun the allies. The allies weren't Spanish conscripts however and, armed with a number of Maxim Guns, would mow down mounds of Confederates. After thirteen hours of battle General Gordon ordered his force to withdraw. The route of retreat however was blocked by the arrival of an additional 2000 American and 4500 Cubans who had managed to get behind the Confederates. The Battle of Bayamo would be extended for another seven hours before General Gordon would surrender.
During the battle the Confederacy had suffered over 10,000 casualties not including those surrendered while the allies and Cubans nearly 6000. For commanding over the Confederates conducted the genocide in Cuba General Gordon and a number of his subordinates would be arrested and sent to London to be tried for these crimes. With Gordon gone General Robert E. Lee Jr was the next senior not captured, on January 12 after meeting with Waldersee Lee would surrender control of Cuba to the allies after assurances that the his men would be treated fairly. By the end of the month all of Cuba was under Allied control.
The loss of Cuba, along with a bloodless expedition of Puerto Rico by 5000 Americans under Major General Nelson Miles on January 25, was to much for President Forrest. On the morning of February 20 President Forrest called General-in-Chief George Washington Custis Lee to the Grey House. Forrest told Lee that the Confederate Army was to attack the US and capture Washington, Columbus, and Los Angeles in a punch to quickly knock out the US. Forrest was sure that after the US was subdued that the Five-Nation Alliance would quickly crumble.
The invasion was set to begin at 6:00AM on February 22. At 6:00 AM on the day of the invasion President Forrest had already been up and awaiting word on the progress of the invasion. Gunfire was suddenly heard outside the Grey House which the began within the building itself. Armed Confederate soldiers would burst into President Forrest's room followed quickly by General Lee. Lee informed the President that he was no longer in power and wouldn't destroy the nation in a suicidal attempt to stop the inevitable change. Now ex-President Forrest was placed under house arrest with a battalion of Confederate soldiers set up around the Grey House to guard. For the moment anyway General Lee would head a committee of like minded officers in the Army and Navy that was now in control of the Confederacy. The next day a special Confederate envoy was sent to Washington to talk about ending the current crisis.
Damn, so much for a Confederate wank. I loved how you made Robert E. Lee Jr. act like his OTL father in Appomatox. Also, nice twist with the coup
Looks like this General Lee had enough sense to see the handwriting on the wall. Because if the Confederacy had invaded the United States this time, they would be on their own. No foreign power would come to their aid, and this time the U.S. would probably either destroy the C.S.A. or take large chunks out of it.