Don't You Know That Cotton's King!: Redux TL

How do you make those infoboxes? I've been wanting to use a few for my upcoming Concentrates reboot but I have no idea how to do them.
 
How do you make those infoboxes? I've been wanting to use a few for my upcoming Concentrates reboot but I have no idea how to do them.
Find a Wikipedia page box you like and start editing from that page. Just don't hit save hut preview
Ah, the Mexico-Screw on schedule.

Why exactly does the Confederacy want a pacific outlet anyway?
:confused: I don't remember ordering a Mexican screw?

Open to more trade?
 
Open to more trade?

With what? Chile? Peru? Most of the Asian trade is passing through the Indian Ocean, and is mediated by Europe. There's only the China trade which should be ramping up around this time. But I don't see a substantial Chinese market for Confederate production. Most of that market will be in the Industrial centers of the North and Europe.

Then there's the question of cost-effectiveness. The Confederacy has driven a pathway through really low value, marginal hinterland territory with relatively little immediate potential and low population. Even factoring out the massive costs of building such a railway, the shipping costs are pretty dubious. I'm not persuaded that it is at all cost effective.

But, your timeline. Good luck.
 
With what? Chile? Peru? Most of the Asian trade is passing through the Indian Ocean, and is mediated by Europe. There's only the China trade which should be ramping up around this time. But I don't see a substantial Chinese market for Confederate production. Most of that market will be in the Industrial centers of the North and Europe.

Then there's the question of cost-effectiveness. The Confederacy has driven a pathway through really low value, marginal hinterland territory with relatively little immediate potential and low population. Even factoring out the massive costs of building such a railway, the shipping costs are pretty dubious. I'm not persuaded that it is at all cost effective.

But, your timeline. Good luck.

Oh and fir the mines and stuff in Arizona
 
Reserved Incidents

President Hampton saw what expanding the railroad could do for the Confederacy as his predecessor had. However besides the threat on what going all out on such a massive project could do to the country's economy there was also the Comanche and Apache tribes. Since the end of the Great War the US had rapidly expanded its grip on its frontier and by 1887 there were very few Indians remaining that weren't on reservations. This hadn't happened within the Confederacy as immigration and westward expansion, while both were still occurring, wasn't moving like it was in the US. To really get the populace behind completing a Transcontinental Railroad the hostile Indian tribes had to be taken out of the picture.

In May 1887 regular troops and militia began moving into western Texas and Arizona. By August over there were over 5000 troops in Texas and 1800 in Arizona. On September 1 per General-in-Chief Patrick Cleburne's, General Jackson had retired in 1885 after severing 24 loyal years in the Confederate Army and was given a hero's departure from Richmond, orders word was given to to Comanche and Apache chiefs for them to evict and area roughly the size of Mississippi for Confederate settlement and expansion. This order was obviously and violently refused and the Second Comanche and Second Apache War was on.

The Second Comanche War went on for over a year as the Comanche ferociously fought to drive the Confederates back. On October 25,1888 the largest engagement of the war the Battle of Palo Duro Canyon was fought with 1100 Confederate troops and 400 Texas Rangers against over 2000 Comanche warriors and their allies. The Confederacy suffered over 200 casualties during the fight but the Comanche on the other hand over a thousand of which roughly half were killed. On of these dead would be the Comanche leader Chief Quanah Parker. The Comanche's back had been broken and Confederate forces were swarming over their land. On December 1,1888 the Second Comanche War came to an end with the remaining Comanches moving to reservations set up in the Baja Territory.

In Arizona, the Second Apache War saw similar brutality. For nine months the war was fought mostly between smaller bands of Apache against small companies of Confederates. The Apache's main leader was Geronimo who had terrified both the Confederates and Mexicans for years. Now however Geronimo would do hit and run attacks before fleeing into American New Mexico Territory. By the summer of 1888 Confederates had nearly destroyed the Apache with hundreds killed and hundreds more were being sent to the Baja Reservations but Geronimo and nearly 250 warriors remained defiant. On June 16,1888 Geronimo and a band on 195 warriors attacked and pillaged the town of La Luz killing nearly everyone and burning the town before retreating into New Mexico. Three days later Lieutenant Colonel James Marsden led a battalion of Confederate mounted infantry on an unsanctioned assault across the border to kill or capture Geronimo once and for all. On June 20,1888 the Battle of Estancia was fought between the Confederacy and the Apache on US soil. The battle ended in a total Confederate victory with the entire band killed however their crossing wasn't a secret and a regiment of American Cavalry moved between them and the border and ordered their surrender. The next morning Colonel Marsden agreed with the demands and surrendered his force to the Americans.

There had been scares between the US and Confederacy before, but the Estancia Incident was the largest in nearly two decades. The captured Confederates were transferred to Fort Leavenworth in July and placed in prison despite Richmond's demands to release them. Over the next month a tense standoff occurred across North America with both sides calling up several of their militia units. Finally President Hampton would agree to give a formal apology to Washington and pay the US 7,500 for the cross border raid on September 7. Following their release from Leavenworth the majority of the soldiers were returned to their units. Colonel Marsden however was arrested and sent to Richmond to face court martial for the illegal cross border raid and eventually be imprisoned at Libby Prison.

As the Estancia Incident occurred in the rest of the nation the Second Apache War came to an end on July 20,1888 with the remaining few Apaches being sent to Baja. The way was clear for the Transcontinental Railroad. Now enough financial support hand to be found to complete the railway. On January 5,1889 President Hampton became the first Confederate president to admit a new state to the Confederacy with Arizona becoming the 13th Confederate state.
 
Soon to be MAjor General Marsden will have a good time in Libby Resort...

I can't imagine that anyone will really consider to condemn his deeds - especially if the public opinion will be on his side (I assume).

THe only Thing to be Held against him is that he cowardly avoided a fight with the Damned Yanks...
 
Last edited:
Military Changes

The Estancia Incident, though ultimately ended peacefully, rattled Richmond over the thought of a war breaking out with the US. Though all of Richmond believed that the average southern soldier was worth ten northern ones the Americans had an almost endless supply of manpower to throw against them if they wanted. So the Confederate Army would have to find ways to make their soldiers go further. This meant more capacity firearms, more machine guns, and better artillery The British Army had recently introduced the Lee-Metord rifle which had a carrying capacity of ten rounds. In January 1889 the Confederacy would strike a deal with London for the purchase of 10,000 Lee-Metford's and to create the rifle at home as long as they were not sold to other countries outside of the British Empire and its Dominions without London's permission. Beginning in 1890 the Tredegar Model 1889 or M-89 would be introduced to the Confederate Army as their new service rifle. While the new Maxim machine gun showed much promise as a successor to the Gorgas gun Richmond would not be able to gain approval to develop their own versions which meant that the Gorgas Gun would for the time being remain the Confederacy's go to machine gun.

The Confederate Navy was also a pale shadow of the growing US Navy however modernizing the Navy and increasing its size was much harder and more expensive than the Army. Just earlier in the year President Hampton had canceled the order for the British cruiser HMS Invincible to save money. Now barley a year later he was looking to expand and strengthen the Navy. In February 1889 Richmond approved the construction of four modern armored cruisers of at least 12,000 tons to be built at the Confederacy's largest shipyards at Norfolk and New Orleans. These warships were to have four 10.5 inch guns placed in two turrets with a secondary armament of ten 4.5 inch guns and the newest weapon in the Confederate Navy's arsenal four 18 inch torpedo tubes. These were the largest ships ever constructed by the Confederacy and would take over four years before all of the Virginia-class cruisers would be completed. From other shipyards ten Roanoke-class river monitors and six Chesapeake-class coastal monitors were ordered as well. The only difference in these two classes was that the Roanoke-class held four ten inch guns, ten 6 pounder guns, and eight Gorgas Guns, weighing an average of 4,500 tons while the Chesapeake-class held four 12 inch guns, six four inch secondary guns, four Gorgas Guns, four 18 inch torpedo tubes, and weighing an average of 6,000 tons. While some controversy would be held against the construction of all three classes the most were against the Virginia-class cruisers that many would feel were unnecessary to protect the Confederacy's coastlines and rivers.
 
Last edited:
Something that's been severely lacking so far is how the CSA has been treating the slaves. Quite poorly i'd imagine given the OTL record as to how they treated them. In fact i'm not surprised a slave rebellion has arisen yet which the Union would then take advantage of by intervening in it. Which the British despite having the CSA as an ally is something they'd stay out of because you now it'd be a slave rebellion. Also i'd imagine that the US would have far better race relations by now then OTL.
 
See I don't really think that. I'm thinking that must Americans would see blacks as the reason their country toer in two and be resentful

Oh bullshit. The North was already abolitionist OTL and a CSA victory scenario would drive them further into that camp. You'll get a minority that believe that but the moment a reporter does some actual snooping into how the CSA treats its black slaves(Is that William Randolph Hearst I hear?) they'll be shut down fast.

I've never gotten why people think in the event of a CSA victory the Union would turn on Blacks when in reality it'd be more like "Fine you won independence so you can keep enslaving, raping and killing your blacks all you want. Well we're more civilized then you and will treat them as the equals they are and by god we'll prove that a black man is just as good as a white man is!"

Also don't forget you'd have had white and black northerner's fighting side by side as well. That alone is going to help race relations along quite well.
 
Last edited:
I think the few black People in the North would be seen just like other "minorities" a nuisance like the Irish, Jews, Italians, .... - That might change if larger numbers cross the borders and sekk Jobs...

Probably not the WASPs will be their wirst "enemies" more likely they will clash with the different Immigrant Groups.

THE capitaluists will see them as cheap workers/servants, the middle class largely ignoring them and the poorer classes will definitely hate them... (look what happens/ed to Mexican/South American immigrants)
 
A Troubling Institution

By 1890 the only modern nations in the world that still held on to the institution of slavery was the Confederacy and Brazil. Of the two Brazil was gradually abolishing the practice which was expected to be fully abolished by 1895. The Confederacy however, while the number of individuals who had come to believe that slavery was in its last days was growing, still held firmly on to its slaves. President Hampton was one that believed that if the Confederacy was to survive as a modern nation then it would have to find a way to wean itself off its reliance on slaves however with most of the states and federal governments not also seeing this way these beliefs would for now stay his.

Despite an end to slavery for the Confederacy not being anywhere in sight the use of slaves had actually stagnated through the country and for some states even having lower slave numbers as it had in recent years. The boll weevil was having a slowly increasing effect on this having crossed into Texas from Mexico around 1880 it had infested much of Texas and in 1891 would break out in Mississippi most believe arriving there by ship. In the upper south where cotton was less grown the need for slave labor was lessening. While the mechanization of cotton harvesting hadn't yet made a viable machine the invention of the combine had made one person be able to do what used to take dozens for grain production. With modern machinery lessening the need for mass manpower the need for slaves mattering less and less in the Confederacy. The idea just had to take hold in the Confederate people now.
 
I think the few black People in the North would be seen just like other "minorities" a nuisance like the Irish, Jews, Italians, .... - That might change if larger numbers cross the borders and sekk Jobs...

Probably not the WASPs will be their wirst "enemies" more likely they will clash with the different Immigrant Groups.

THE capitaluists will see them as cheap workers/servants, the middle class largely ignoring them and the poorer classes will definitely hate them... (look what happens/ed to Mexican/South American immigrants)
As I said above Blacks and White would have fought and died next to each other though. War tends to wipe away lots of notions of race when you're fighting alongside each other.

A Troubling Institution

By 1890 the only modern nations in the world that still held on to the institution of slavery was the Confederacy and Brazil. Of the two Brazil was gradually abolishing the practice which was expected to be fully abolished by 1895. The Confederacy however, while the number of individuals who had come to believe that slavery was in its last days was growing, still held firmly on to its slaves. President Hampton was one that believed that if the Confederacy was to survive as a modern nation then it would have to find a way to wean itself off its reliance on slaves however with most of the states and federal governments not also seeing this way these beliefs would for now stay his.

Despite an end to slavery for the Confederacy not being anywhere in sight the use of slaves had actually stagnated through the country and for some states even having lower slave numbers as it had in recent years. The boll weevil was having a slowly increasing effect on this having crossed into Texas from Mexico around 1880 it had infested much of Texas and in 1891 would break out in Mississippi most believe arriving there by ship. In the upper south where cotton was less grown the need for slave labor was lessening. While the mechanization of cotton harvesting hadn't yet made a viable machine the invention of the combine had made one person be able to do what used to take dozens for grain production. With modern machinery lessening the need for mass manpower the need for slaves mattering less and less in the Confederacy. The idea just had to take hold in the Confederate people now.

Yeah if anything you'd see factory's start employing slaves and such. Less manpower and you still have a free source of it? Why if I was a southern factory owner i'd employing as many slaves as I possibly could.

Also this is going far FAR to peacefully for the CSA in regards to its slaves. The slave revolt of your original story? That was arguably the most realistic thing of the whole thing! Yet here not a single one period which given the background would be well ASB TBH.
 
Yeah if anything you'd see factory's start employing slaves and such. Less manpower and you still have a free source of it? Why if I was a southern factory owner i'd employing as many slaves as I possibly could.

Also this is going far FAR to peacefully for the CSA in regards to its slaves. The slave revolt of your original story? That was arguably the most realistic thing of the whole thing! Yet here not a single one period which given the background would be well ASB TBH.

hey help me out with this cause i don't know which was why i didn't put it in that post one way or the other. i get slaves working in the factories but what i was wondering was about the more complex things that the factories would make? being the Confederacy would they not think that slaves weren't smart enough to the more complex things? again just something i was thinking of and was curious.

well that's your opinion
 
A Storm Coming

As the 1880's ended and the 1890's began President Hampton made one of the best diplomatic moves of his term. In May 1891 relations between the Confederacy and France were normalized once more in the Treaty of Paris taking a great step to repairing the two nations once warm relationship. While some would call Hampton's modernization of the military the greatest mark to his presidency others would call the Treaty of Paris the greatest mark.

The last years of Hampton's terms would be peaceful ones. In November 1892 the Confederacy's presidential election William Montgomery Forrest was elected the nations seventh president narrowly over Kentucky governor General Simon Bolivar Buckner. Five months later he was inaugurated and Hampton returned to his South Carolina home.

The first months of President Forrest's term were quiet with very few changes occurring from Hampton's term. From within the presidential mansion however the president was planning something big. President Forrest didn't want his term as president to be little more than a caretaker for the nation. He needed a war in which to prove the Confederacy's place among the worlds powers and for his name to be remembered through history.

Since before their split from the US the Confederate States had had their eyes on Spanish possessions in the Caribbean as ways to expand the number of slave states. That slavery had been recently abolished in Cuba was of no concern to Forrest which believed these possessions to be the country's next area of expansion. Not wanting to face the same problems that President Longstreet had with the Confederate populace during the War of Mexican Succession however Forrest needed a good cassus belli to get the population to support him in war.

Cuba had been battling Spain to get independence for decades but going nowhere. Though the island was more or less quiet at the moment Forrest believed that the Cuban nationalists could get riled up with the right persuasion. Beginning as early as the winter of 1893 Confederate agents operating in Cuba began spreading dissent and even small boats of arms began arriving on the island. Soon enough a new round of rebellion was sprouting on the island.

Spain knew that the Confederacy was supporting the growing rebellion in Cuba but by March 1894 hadn't been able to gain any proof of this due to the arms running ships being small and fast. On April 25,1894 however the Charleston based ship the Aurora would be sailing through the straits between Florida and Cuba with a cargo of 250 rifles and 100 passengers of which 25 were Confederate agents enroute to assist the Cuban rebels was spotted by the Spanish cruiser Almirante Oquendo. As the Spanish cruiser began to give chase the Aurora would ditch its armament cargo and attempt to flee. After an our however the Almirante Oquendo had closed the distance and after a warning shot in front of the Aurora the captain stopped the ship and was boarded.

While the 21 women and children passengers from the Aurora were kept in relative comfort in Havana the ships crew and men were jailed and interrogated sometimes roughly. For three weeks Richmond made repeated demands to Madrid to release both the prisoners and the ship to the Confederacy which was ignored. On May 15,1894 Spanish authorities in Havana deemed that they had enough evidence to convict the crew and passengers of the Aurora of supplying arms to the rebels and three days later the captain and four members of his crew along with 31 men from the passengers were executed with the remaining sentenced to prison. The women and children, while not a part of the trials, remained in Havana where Spanish authorities made plans to return them to the Confederacy, eventually.

Richmond and the Confederacy were in an uproar over the executions and pro-war press fed the flame as much as they could growing the call for war in the nation. The Aurora Incident had played out as Forrest wanted and with calls for war growing louder would ask for a declaration of war on May 31. On June 2,1894 the Confederacy declared war on Spain with only 12 in the Senate and 7 in the House voting against war.
 
Oh snap. I knew it would come, but not as ruthlessly as Forrest did. Reminds me of the way Custer got his Spanish-American war in Conroy's "Custer in Chains"
 
Mobilization

The Confederate Army had began a partial mobilization on May 20 in anticipation of war with full mobilization ordered on May 31. The Confederate Army outnumbered the Spanish Army in Cuba at the wars start. However with the still much less than friendly US covering most of its land borders the Confederacy could just send hundreds of thousands of troops to Cuba. Unlike the War of Mexican Succession, most Confederate citizens backed Richmond's decision to go to war. 75,000 troops were readied from the active army and a call for 50,000 volunteers was made. Within two weeks however over 200,000 Confederates had volunteered and 35,000 men were raised from the state militia's all entering training camps located mostly in Texas and Florida before the end of June.

On June 2 Vice Admiral John Taylor Wood was given command of the Confederate fleet based at Mobile tasked with assaulting Cuba. The fleet consisted of two of the new Virginia-class cruisers along with six obsolete but still armored and seaworthy cruisers, and seven monitors including three of the new Chesapeake-class monitors. On June 17 the fleet sailed for Key West to prepare for the assault. The Army was acquiring every ship it could to transport its soldiers and supplies to Cuba while troops began gathering in Savannah and Jacksonville. While the Confederacy prepared for the invasion Spain was also making preparations for the Confederates arrival by building defenses,increasing conscription, and even receiving an additional 10,000 troops from Spain. On August 7 an invasion force of 75,000 troops, roughly half and half new and veteran troops, set sail for Cuba.

The first aggressive action of the war wouldn't occur in the Caribbean but in the Pacific. On April 20 the Virginia-class namesake CSS Virginia along with the CSS Robert Lee and George Washington and six other older cruisers, frigates, and corvettes had set sail under Rear Admiral Irvine Bulloch on a cruise across the Pacific on a trip to Tokyo, Hong Kong, and coincidentally Manila. The squadron had to carry much of the coal needed for the trip. The spot used by most cross ocean voyages even by Confederate merchantmen was Hawaii, however following the short five week long Hawaiian-American War in 1890 Hawaii now belonged to the US which refused to allow Confederate naval vessels to make port there. On June 7 while in Tokyo Bulloch learned of the beginning of hostilities between the Confederacy and Spain. He immediately ordered his ships to ready themselves to move on the Spanish Marianas Islands.

Ten days after setting sail Bulloch's Pacific Squadron had reached the Marianas Island chain unchallenged and neared Guam. Guam had a garrison of only 100 Spanish soldiers and upon the arrival of the Confederate fleet did not know that Spain and the Confederacy was at war, that was until the Virginia and Robert Lee both fired a salvo at Fort Santa Cruz. Fort Santa Cruz, unable to return fire, almost immediately struck their colors and surrendered to Bulloch. Guam had fallen to Confederate hands with the only casualties being four wounded Spaniards. The crew of the Pacific Squadron was ecstatic over the complete one sided victory and were calling for Admiral Bulloch to assault Manila. On August 10 he would do just that.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Really?

That never lasts, once the fighting is over.

Really?

http://www.agifus.com/index.php?opt...merican-gi-forum&catid=16:about-us&Itemid=112


Romualdo Pacheco (Civil War)

J.O. Fernandez (WW II)

Ed Roybal (WW II)

Eligio de la Garza (WW II)

Charles Rangel (Korea)

Edward Brooke (WW II)

Hiram Fong (WW II)

Daniel Inouye (WW II; MOH)

Note I didn't include any of the AAs elected in the South after Civil War service but who who lost during Reconstruction, or the AAs elected during the Fusion movements in the South later in the Nineteenth Century, for obvious reasons.

The point being, however, is that in the US, political and civil rights have followed from military service - this held true for the white male veterans of the Revolution in the Eighteenth Century, male veterans of African ancestry in the Nineteenth Century after the Civil War, and native American and women veterans after WW I in the Twentieth Century.

Obviously, elected office and full civil rights has been an intermittent process for almost every demographic cohort in the US population, but the overall pattern is undeniable.

Similar patterns have held true in other Western nations, but - generally - have not been as obvious because of the greater diversity of the US population, as early as the Eighteenth Century.

Best,
 
Top