Chiang Kai-Shek goes to Germany: An Axis China Timeline
- Thread starter CCA
- Start date
And, of course, both sides largely ignore the pair of 800-lb gorillas in the room(though for perfectly good reasons). If and when the US and USSR pick their sides, it's going to go downhill in a hurry for their opponents.
France/Britain would jettison them if there was even a mild danger of that happening, though. US is in an awkward position, though, since it'll be hard to ensure Germany and Japan both lose here.
Please keep up, I really like this TL and finished reading it in a day..
The popular support in UK and France for this war must be very very low....
Why would their countries declare war for the Japanese, some unrelated people thousands of miles away? Just plainly ridiculous. And would they care about the Chinese in Manchuria?
The popular support in UK and France for this war must be very very low....
Why would their countries declare war for the Japanese, some unrelated people thousands of miles away? Just plainly ridiculous. And would they care about the Chinese in Manchuria?
Deleted member 67076
I've been reading this the last few weeks, and I just finished. You've done a phenomenal job with this timeline!
I enjoy this story greatly. CCA, you have done a very wonderful job with this timeline.
1941: The European Front
1941: The European Front
The European Front
"...The fundamental lack of Italian action in the North African front was primarily due to politics. The commander of Italian forces in Libya was the popular and competent Governor of Libya - Italo Balbo. Balbo's popularity meant that Mussolini saw him as a potential rival. As a result, Mussolini stripped the Libyan front of much needed materiel, men and supplies and ordered Balbo to maintain a defensive posture. Jealous of the success of Italy's German allies in Scandinavia, Mussolini would seek Italian conquests in the Balkans..."
(1) The Italian Naval Base at Taranto pictured. Not shown is the early warning systems established in the wake of the sinking of the Chinese Navy at port which led to Italian victory at Taranto.
"First however, Italy needed to get rid of a running sore on her foot. Malta had been under siege since Italian entry into the Second Great War and was now exposed due to British defeat at the Battle of Taranto the year before. The Battle of Taranto was an attempt at attacking the Regia Marina in December 1940 while she was at port in the naval base at Taranto. However, Italian planners had learned from the destruction of the Chinese Navy at the onset of the Second Great War and had set up early warning systems. The result was a bloodbath for the British Royal Navy, with the brand new HMS Illustrious, and half of her escorts being sunk due to a sortie of the Regia Marina and air cover provided by the Regia Aeronautica for a loss of only two aircraft on the Italian side and a damaged destroyer..."
(2) The Giulio Cesare firing guns at Malta. This was part of a merciless two month bombardment campaign by air and sea which prevented reinforcements and paralyzed the garrison.
"...Italian victory at Taranto had not only given the Fascist regime a much needed victory, it also changed the balance of power in the Mediterrenean. Accordingly, plans which had been made pre-war were bought into action. In order to demonstrate Italian independence and put Mussolini's theory of the "Parallel War" into action, German aid which was offered was refused completely. Italy would take Malta by herself without help from what Mussolini saw as overbearing German 'Allies.' Preparations were made, an extensive campaign of naval and air bombardment began in January 1941 and 40,000 Italian troops landed in February 26. The demoralized, exhausted and outnumbered British garrison surrendered a day later. The stunning Italian triumph meant that Italy was one step closer of realizing her dream of the Mediterranean as an "Italian lake..."
"....Italy had two rough options in the aftermath of Malta. Option 1 was the "African Plan" which was to build up forces in Libya under the command of Balbo and then invade Egypt, cutting off British access to the Suez Canal. Option II was to expand across the Balkans and set up a sphere of influence in that direction. Although later military historians would argue that Option I was the correct 'strategic decision,' the reality of Fascist politics meant that Mussolini did not dare empower Balbo. If a triumphant Balbo drove the British across Egypt and seized the canal, then the Fascist Grand Council might have considered Balbo as a suitable replacement. Faced with this political dilemma, Mussolini opted for Option II."
(3) Yugoslavian leader Prince Paul with Adolf Hitler after the accession of Yugoslavia into the "Pact of Steel."
"...However, there were also important strategic considerations in pursuing a "Balkan Strategy." Combined Italo-German diplomacy had forced the accession of Yugoslavia into the Pact of Steel on March 27 1941. This meant that the only thing standing in the way of Axis dominance in the Mediterranean was Greece. Greece would face attacks on three fronts, the Bulgarian front, the Yugoslavian front and the Albanian front. While German troops would not take part in any of the attacks, there was an upsurge of German "Volunteers" and "Advisers" in both the Bulgarian and Yugoslavian armies. (Indeed, these 'volunteers' would help crush an attempted pro-Entete coup attempted on 1 April 1941...)"
(4) Greek forces digging trenches in anticipation of the conflict.
"...Meanwhile, while the Axis Powers prepared to attack, they were busy at work preparing a diplomatic fait accompli. Italy, Yugoslavia and Bulgaria with German diplomatic support presented a proposal which would've effectively dismembered Greece, surrendering border territories to Italy, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia, acceding to the Tripartite Pact and placing a pro-Axis government in control of the country. When these terms were refused, the Axis powers declared war and Greece formally became part of the Entente on the 22 June 1941. France and Britain, the two primary powers of the Entete had prepared for such an eventuality and actually had a expeditionary force ready to go. The Franco-British Expeditionary Force (FBEF) was 200,000 strong and composed of French colonial troops, ANZAC troops, British troops and even some Indian troops. They were supplemented by an air corps consisting of French and British planes, but these planes were mostly obsolete ones that had been taken off service from 'important' fronts.
"...Outnumbered, outgunned and quite often outflanked, the Entente defenders put up a valiant, but losing struggle. The sheer weight of Axis materiel and manpower combined with Italian air superiority and the tenuous allied supply lines meant that Greece would fall by December (although Crete would not fall until February 1942.) The FBEF, along with 100,000 Greek troops were successfully evacuated to Egypt. Greece was an exhausting battle for the Axis however, and in many ways a Phyrric victory. Nonetheless, as Greece was dismembered three ways and a puppet pro-Axis government was established in Athens - it did not feel like a victory..."
The Western Front:
The Western Front continued to remain as a stalemate, as German troops were redelpoyed to serve as "Volunteers" in the armies of her Balkan allies and the Franco-British troops were redeployed to the Greek front. It was a cliche, but the Western front had stabilized and stagnated strategically. It seemed as if both the Axis and Entente had decided that the war would be won or lost somewhere else and thus things were all quiet on the western front.
Sources:
(1)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tarantoharb1921.jpg
(2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Malta_(World_War_II)#Italian_invasion_plans
(3) http://www.princepaulroyalexile.com/synopsis.html
(4) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Italian_War
Next update: Will probably be about the various Home Fronts.
The European Front
"...The fundamental lack of Italian action in the North African front was primarily due to politics. The commander of Italian forces in Libya was the popular and competent Governor of Libya - Italo Balbo. Balbo's popularity meant that Mussolini saw him as a potential rival. As a result, Mussolini stripped the Libyan front of much needed materiel, men and supplies and ordered Balbo to maintain a defensive posture. Jealous of the success of Italy's German allies in Scandinavia, Mussolini would seek Italian conquests in the Balkans..."
(1) The Italian Naval Base at Taranto pictured. Not shown is the early warning systems established in the wake of the sinking of the Chinese Navy at port which led to Italian victory at Taranto.
"First however, Italy needed to get rid of a running sore on her foot. Malta had been under siege since Italian entry into the Second Great War and was now exposed due to British defeat at the Battle of Taranto the year before. The Battle of Taranto was an attempt at attacking the Regia Marina in December 1940 while she was at port in the naval base at Taranto. However, Italian planners had learned from the destruction of the Chinese Navy at the onset of the Second Great War and had set up early warning systems. The result was a bloodbath for the British Royal Navy, with the brand new HMS Illustrious, and half of her escorts being sunk due to a sortie of the Regia Marina and air cover provided by the Regia Aeronautica for a loss of only two aircraft on the Italian side and a damaged destroyer..."
(2) The Giulio Cesare firing guns at Malta. This was part of a merciless two month bombardment campaign by air and sea which prevented reinforcements and paralyzed the garrison.
"...Italian victory at Taranto had not only given the Fascist regime a much needed victory, it also changed the balance of power in the Mediterrenean. Accordingly, plans which had been made pre-war were bought into action. In order to demonstrate Italian independence and put Mussolini's theory of the "Parallel War" into action, German aid which was offered was refused completely. Italy would take Malta by herself without help from what Mussolini saw as overbearing German 'Allies.' Preparations were made, an extensive campaign of naval and air bombardment began in January 1941 and 40,000 Italian troops landed in February 26. The demoralized, exhausted and outnumbered British garrison surrendered a day later. The stunning Italian triumph meant that Italy was one step closer of realizing her dream of the Mediterranean as an "Italian lake..."
"....Italy had two rough options in the aftermath of Malta. Option 1 was the "African Plan" which was to build up forces in Libya under the command of Balbo and then invade Egypt, cutting off British access to the Suez Canal. Option II was to expand across the Balkans and set up a sphere of influence in that direction. Although later military historians would argue that Option I was the correct 'strategic decision,' the reality of Fascist politics meant that Mussolini did not dare empower Balbo. If a triumphant Balbo drove the British across Egypt and seized the canal, then the Fascist Grand Council might have considered Balbo as a suitable replacement. Faced with this political dilemma, Mussolini opted for Option II."
(3) Yugoslavian leader Prince Paul with Adolf Hitler after the accession of Yugoslavia into the "Pact of Steel."
"...However, there were also important strategic considerations in pursuing a "Balkan Strategy." Combined Italo-German diplomacy had forced the accession of Yugoslavia into the Pact of Steel on March 27 1941. This meant that the only thing standing in the way of Axis dominance in the Mediterranean was Greece. Greece would face attacks on three fronts, the Bulgarian front, the Yugoslavian front and the Albanian front. While German troops would not take part in any of the attacks, there was an upsurge of German "Volunteers" and "Advisers" in both the Bulgarian and Yugoslavian armies. (Indeed, these 'volunteers' would help crush an attempted pro-Entete coup attempted on 1 April 1941...)"
(4) Greek forces digging trenches in anticipation of the conflict.
"...Meanwhile, while the Axis Powers prepared to attack, they were busy at work preparing a diplomatic fait accompli. Italy, Yugoslavia and Bulgaria with German diplomatic support presented a proposal which would've effectively dismembered Greece, surrendering border territories to Italy, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia, acceding to the Tripartite Pact and placing a pro-Axis government in control of the country. When these terms were refused, the Axis powers declared war and Greece formally became part of the Entente on the 22 June 1941. France and Britain, the two primary powers of the Entete had prepared for such an eventuality and actually had a expeditionary force ready to go. The Franco-British Expeditionary Force (FBEF) was 200,000 strong and composed of French colonial troops, ANZAC troops, British troops and even some Indian troops. They were supplemented by an air corps consisting of French and British planes, but these planes were mostly obsolete ones that had been taken off service from 'important' fronts.
"...Outnumbered, outgunned and quite often outflanked, the Entente defenders put up a valiant, but losing struggle. The sheer weight of Axis materiel and manpower combined with Italian air superiority and the tenuous allied supply lines meant that Greece would fall by December (although Crete would not fall until February 1942.) The FBEF, along with 100,000 Greek troops were successfully evacuated to Egypt. Greece was an exhausting battle for the Axis however, and in many ways a Phyrric victory. Nonetheless, as Greece was dismembered three ways and a puppet pro-Axis government was established in Athens - it did not feel like a victory..."
The Western Front:
The Western Front continued to remain as a stalemate, as German troops were redelpoyed to serve as "Volunteers" in the armies of her Balkan allies and the Franco-British troops were redeployed to the Greek front. It was a cliche, but the Western front had stabilized and stagnated strategically. It seemed as if both the Axis and Entente had decided that the war would be won or lost somewhere else and thus things were all quiet on the western front.
Sources:
(1)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tarantoharb1921.jpg
(2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Malta_(World_War_II)#Italian_invasion_plans
(3) http://www.princepaulroyalexile.com/synopsis.html
(4) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Italian_War
Next update: Will probably be about the various Home Fronts.
Very interesting to see a situation in which France holds a strong defensive line against Germany, while the Italians knock the British back with a surprise left hook in the Medditerranean. I'm delughtfully unsure where any of that is heading.
umm... wow... excellent TL
Just finish reading all of this... too bad, no more updates for Chiang being further buddy-buddy with his ol'pal Hitler?
Looking forward for this!!!
Well, they're separated half a world away, not that many opportunities for them to be buddy-buddy. I will say though that one of them will bail the other one out of a tough spot through a personal intervention later on. Not that it's meant to be a spoiler or anything.
Hmm, we'll see about that. It'll be a turning point, whatever the outcome anyway
Thanks for your comments.Cheers!
Yup. US has been scrupulously neutral so far, selling materiel to both sides and lending money to every side. America is getting fat and rich from this whole enterprise, so why take sides?
The USSR is a more interesting question, which I hope to address in my next post.
Japan has been quite historically stupid, but they won't be that stupid here. Plus, their alliance with France and Britain means that they're somewhat of a leash.
Yup, you've hit the nail on the head. US is in a great position though. They just have to make sure no side loses to hard, or they won't be able to pay up.
Part of the reason for them declaring for Japan is the issue of European concessions. The growing links between China and Germany worried them too and they sought to back Japan in order to neutralize having to fight a war in Asia.
Thanks!
Cheers Generalissimo!
Yes, and no. Taranto failed because of AWS and Britain underestimating Italian strength. Europe has seen the power of naval aviation in the Sino-Japanese front.
Welcome on board!
Yes, France has been able to withstand so far, but large part of that is due to large amount of German volunteers on the Greek front.
Without Japanese initial successes against the Western powers in WW2, the western powers would still underestimate Japan and China (Note the British Pre-WW2 thought the Japanese pilots had difficulty hitting targets due to poor eyesight), and believe that the Japanese attack was a fluke or just that the Chinese were supremely incompetent.
Son of Leman Russ
Banned
I for one, won't be surprised if US just silently building nukes, and after this deemed enough, demonstrate it both in two empty spots at Pacific and Atlantic ocean.
"Stop fighting you all or we'll fuck you both!"
"Stop fighting you all or we'll fuck you both!"
The Americans have the ability to wreck the economy of either sides by calling in loans and refusing to lend more. The war is pretty much being financed on American money - on both sides.
That's arguably more powerful than an atomic weapon, if a little less flashy
Son of Leman Russ
Banned
The Americans have the ability to wreck the economy of either sides by calling in loans and refusing to lend more. The war is pretty much being financed on American money - on both sides.
That's arguably more powerful than an atomic weapon, if a little less flashy
"Have fun boys, but the first one to commit genocide will get a red card?"
Son of Leman Russ
Banned
USA want to prolong the war because they are quite profitable... like selling tickets of FIFA World Cup... The Panzer team have Blitzkrieg!
Enjoying your timeline The 800 lb gorrilla, the USSR
Excellent timeline, been following it for a while now.
My observations on the USSR in this timeline:
Has USSR invaded Finland?
Well I think not yet. But I think sooner or later they will invade Finland due to their thinking the Germans are bogged down in the west vs. the French and UK. The German success in Scandanavia might influence their thinking but again I think weighing the fact that the Germans are weakened might entice them to act in Finland. To divide the spoils of Scandanavia as the USSR did in Poland OTL. Wonder what Sweden will think of this? Probably remain neutral and start to mobilize if they haven't already but the Swedish are buddy buddy with the Germans since the Swedish provide a lot of coal to the Germans as they did in OTL. And the Swedes have the Strongest military in Scandanavia.
As for Poland, I believe that the Germans and Soviets find Poland to be a valuable buffer area...For now....
Also I think another factor in the hesitation is that the Great purge enacted by Stalin vs. the Soviet military was also done in this timeline. I think Stalin is building up his military forces with an eye towards Japan and possibly Poland. In OTL, Stalin has always thought that Japan was biggest military threat to the USSR until 1940 with the Fall of France, the shift changed towards Germany. In this timeline the view is unchanged, USSR is profiting from the German arms shipments passing thru its territory to the KMT and there have been armed clashes with Japan. But I think in this timeline. The Soviet far east, the tranportation and logistical infrastructure is built up even more rapidly to accomodate the Soviet aid to the KMT and to support the massive and growing Soviet buildup of the Soviet military forces ine area esp. the ones on the Manchurian border.
I think the Soviet plan for Manchuria and Korea is to wait and see. In this timeline, the Soviets see the Japanese to be the biggest military threat due to massive Japanese deployments in Manchuria. The Kwantung army in Manchuria I believe is as strong as ever(however many units are being sent south to fight the KMT in the stalemated front at Beijing/Tianjin).
While the Soviet Japanese border clashes showed the Japanese miltary was behind the Soviet union. The USSR is still hesitant for a possible invasion of Manchuria due to the fanatical fighting spirit shown by the Japanese which while defeated at the border clashes caused heavy Soviet losses. So right now I believe Stalin's view is wait and see.
The Soviets have an interesting view on the Japanese and the KMT. I believe that they view both to be a threat, but right now, the USSR needs the KMT to distract Japan and supports it. But in the long run, the USSR may see the KMT as a threat. So for now, it is the best interest of the USSR for the Japanese and Chinese to kill each other. Same too with Germany and the Allies.
My two cents on the matter.
Excellent timeline, been following it for a while now.
My observations on the USSR in this timeline:
Has USSR invaded Finland?
Well I think not yet. But I think sooner or later they will invade Finland due to their thinking the Germans are bogged down in the west vs. the French and UK. The German success in Scandanavia might influence their thinking but again I think weighing the fact that the Germans are weakened might entice them to act in Finland. To divide the spoils of Scandanavia as the USSR did in Poland OTL. Wonder what Sweden will think of this? Probably remain neutral and start to mobilize if they haven't already but the Swedish are buddy buddy with the Germans since the Swedish provide a lot of coal to the Germans as they did in OTL. And the Swedes have the Strongest military in Scandanavia.
As for Poland, I believe that the Germans and Soviets find Poland to be a valuable buffer area...For now....
Also I think another factor in the hesitation is that the Great purge enacted by Stalin vs. the Soviet military was also done in this timeline. I think Stalin is building up his military forces with an eye towards Japan and possibly Poland. In OTL, Stalin has always thought that Japan was biggest military threat to the USSR until 1940 with the Fall of France, the shift changed towards Germany. In this timeline the view is unchanged, USSR is profiting from the German arms shipments passing thru its territory to the KMT and there have been armed clashes with Japan. But I think in this timeline. The Soviet far east, the tranportation and logistical infrastructure is built up even more rapidly to accomodate the Soviet aid to the KMT and to support the massive and growing Soviet buildup of the Soviet military forces ine area esp. the ones on the Manchurian border.
I think the Soviet plan for Manchuria and Korea is to wait and see. In this timeline, the Soviets see the Japanese to be the biggest military threat due to massive Japanese deployments in Manchuria. The Kwantung army in Manchuria I believe is as strong as ever(however many units are being sent south to fight the KMT in the stalemated front at Beijing/Tianjin).
While the Soviet Japanese border clashes showed the Japanese miltary was behind the Soviet union. The USSR is still hesitant for a possible invasion of Manchuria due to the fanatical fighting spirit shown by the Japanese which while defeated at the border clashes caused heavy Soviet losses. So right now I believe Stalin's view is wait and see.
The Soviets have an interesting view on the Japanese and the KMT. I believe that they view both to be a threat, but right now, the USSR needs the KMT to distract Japan and supports it. But in the long run, the USSR may see the KMT as a threat. So for now, it is the best interest of the USSR for the Japanese and Chinese to kill each other. Same too with Germany and the Allies.
My two cents on the matter.