Absolutely. Sometimes, I regret that my POD butterflies stuff that seems ridiculous away.
Cardamom Dreams: The Saga of India
- Thread starter Badshah
- Start date
He's actually real. Jaimal Rathore and Fateh Singh Sisodia were the sixteen year old commanders of Chittorgarh after Udai Singh's departure.
So they were. How did they end up with the job rather than some more experienced officer - was it because they were royal?
It's a shame that they're probably doomed.
Truly. The explosion of the mine at Chittorgarh was OTL as well, just to let you guys know. Just wanted to give you guys a little update on the conflict between the Mughals and Rajputs.
Jaimal was a Rathore, while Fateh was a Sisodia, arguably the two main Rajput clans...so that's the most likely case. It's also likely that the Maharana foresaw the situation at the fort and took his best men with him.
EDIT: Also, if anybody wants a PM any time a new update is released, let me know!
I know I haven't been too regular, so it might help.
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Sikarwar, Sujamal [FONT="]Rajput Lions [/FONT] (Udaipur University Press 1994)
The Rajputs of Northern India had become a thorn in the side of the Mughal Empire. Arguably the foremost power in the region following the decline of the Delhi Sultanate, their presence had made the newly established raiders from the north uneasy, and justly so. The Rajput rulers commanded a vast army, and their territory positioned in a way that could strangle Babar's hard won territory before it could yield any gain. And for the Rajputs, specifically Mewar, the Mughals posed a very real threat to their influence over North India. Led by the enigmatic Rana Sangha, the Rajputs and Mughals would clash at the Battle at Khanwa; here it was where the fate of India changed forever, as Babar's men managed to defeat the Rajput army, and thus, firmly established themselves on the Indo-Gangetic Plain.
Rana Sangha had not died, and only retreated back to Mewar. Vowing to never said foot in his capital of Chittor, he prepared to rebuild his army and march on Delhi once more. This would not come to be, however, as he died in his camp, leaving only the dreams of Empire behind for his descendants.
Yet Mewar did not relent. As other states signed alliances with the Mughals and arranged marriages with them, Mewar would continue to look at them as foreign invaders. And just as years before, Babar had fought Rana Sangha, their blood, Akbar and Udai Singh II would fight again. Once more, it was for reasons of imperial security that the attack was carried out, though under the pretext of capturing the rogue sultan of Malwa, Baz Bahadur, who was defeated earlier on in 1562 by a newly independent Akbar.
Udai Singh, too had reasons to chafe, as the Emperor had captured Gujarat in a few months, and secured alliances with many of his contemporaries, including the Rana of Amber. This left the Rana with little option but to resort to fortifying his defences in Chittor, and fleeing someplace safer. His son Pratap Singh initially volunteered to head the defence of the fortress, but eventually relented to the will of the royal advisers, fleeing alongside his father and Baz Bahadur, leaving control to Jaimal Rathore and Fateh Singh Sisodia.
The young commanders of the fortress had managed fairly well throughout the months, though besieged, against the Mughals. Indeed one could say that they were quite well-stocked and prepared to keep the invaders at bay. Chittorgarh's defenders would often volley shots whenever Mughal soldiers, especially sappers, attempted to plant explosives at the base of the fort. This would hamper the Mughals so effectively, that they resorted to using a shield like structure to cover their soldiers, as they moved in a line towards the fort. In addition, Akbar ordered his soldiers to create a hill high enough to penetrate Chittorgarh's walls with his cannons. Dubbed Mohur Hill, it, in the end, did little to stifle the Rajputs' brave defence, And they continued to hold off the Mughals, to Akbar's dismay. Furthermore, when the mines the sappers had planted prematurely exploded, killing close to one hundred Mughal soldiers, the morale in the Mughal camp had dropped quite low. Shadows of mutiny spread over the camp, hanging over Akbar's crown like an elephant's foot over a condemned man.
Yet in February 1568, one event would mark a complete turnaround for the entire debacle. In the middle of the night, a Rajput shadow snuck itself upon the walls of the fort, seemingly to survey the Mughal forces. Akbar, vigilant as ever, ran to get his matchlock gun. He quickly and quietly took aim and fired. The Rajput figure fell almost instantaneously, and the night continued until dawn broke.
The following day, as the Mughals prepared to continue their assault, they would be met with something quite shocking: distant fires. Many were quite puzzled at the sight, wondering what was going on, however the soldiers of Amber understood right away: it was jauhar. The commander must have died the night before, and the women prepared to cast themselves into fire to avoid being shamed by the assaulters. According to eye-witnesses, many were visibly in tears, seeing the fires and thinking about their own wives, mothers and daughters. The other men had comprehended what had happened. Chittorgarh was theirs, and victory had come.
Inside the fort, however, the Rajputs were resolved to leave the victors bloodied. Brandishing their katars, they charged the Mughals through a breach left in the fort. Though met by two armoured elephants, the Rajputs continued to fight to the death. Eventually, every single one would be killed.
Akbar would order his men into the fortress once the bloody battle was over with and begin a barbaric act which would resonate with the minds of Mewari residents even today: he would order a massacre. Mughal soldiers raided and raped, launching into a tide of terror, which culminated in thirty thousand men, women and children dead. To further cement his domination of the region, Akbar ordered the heads of the vanquished to be cut off and displayed throughout Rajasthan. However, even the emperor was said to have wept upon seeing the events of the massacre, being reminded of his own newborn sons in Agra. Perhaps that is why he chose to leave so early following his victory, making his way to other forts and accepting their surrender.
On the whole, he had won and Rajasthan was his, but the cost was bloody. Akbar had begun the siege with five thousand men, but that number had swollen to sixty thousand by February. The four month siege had seen twenty thousand Mughal casualties, with all eight thousand Rajput defenders killed, along with thirty thousand civilians. It would be a testament to Rajput skill in battle and their valour, and ultimately, though Udai Singh II had continue to evade the Mughals, this was the event which led to Rajput influence and growth in the Empire as a whole.
Maharana Udai Singh II
The Rajputs of Northern India had become a thorn in the side of the Mughal Empire. Arguably the foremost power in the region following the decline of the Delhi Sultanate, their presence had made the newly established raiders from the north uneasy, and justly so. The Rajput rulers commanded a vast army, and their territory positioned in a way that could strangle Babar's hard won territory before it could yield any gain. And for the Rajputs, specifically Mewar, the Mughals posed a very real threat to their influence over North India. Led by the enigmatic Rana Sangha, the Rajputs and Mughals would clash at the Battle at Khanwa; here it was where the fate of India changed forever, as Babar's men managed to defeat the Rajput army, and thus, firmly established themselves on the Indo-Gangetic Plain.
Rana Sangha had not died, and only retreated back to Mewar. Vowing to never said foot in his capital of Chittor, he prepared to rebuild his army and march on Delhi once more. This would not come to be, however, as he died in his camp, leaving only the dreams of Empire behind for his descendants.
Yet Mewar did not relent. As other states signed alliances with the Mughals and arranged marriages with them, Mewar would continue to look at them as foreign invaders. And just as years before, Babar had fought Rana Sangha, their blood, Akbar and Udai Singh II would fight again. Once more, it was for reasons of imperial security that the attack was carried out, though under the pretext of capturing the rogue sultan of Malwa, Baz Bahadur, who was defeated earlier on in 1562 by a newly independent Akbar.
Udai Singh, too had reasons to chafe, as the Emperor had captured Gujarat in a few months, and secured alliances with many of his contemporaries, including the Rana of Amber. This left the Rana with little option but to resort to fortifying his defences in Chittor, and fleeing someplace safer. His son Pratap Singh initially volunteered to head the defence of the fortress, but eventually relented to the will of the royal advisers, fleeing alongside his father and Baz Bahadur, leaving control to Jaimal Rathore and Fateh Singh Sisodia.
The young commanders of the fortress had managed fairly well throughout the months, though besieged, against the Mughals. Indeed one could say that they were quite well-stocked and prepared to keep the invaders at bay. Chittorgarh's defenders would often volley shots whenever Mughal soldiers, especially sappers, attempted to plant explosives at the base of the fort. This would hamper the Mughals so effectively, that they resorted to using a shield like structure to cover their soldiers, as they moved in a line towards the fort. In addition, Akbar ordered his soldiers to create a hill high enough to penetrate Chittorgarh's walls with his cannons. Dubbed Mohur Hill, it, in the end, did little to stifle the Rajputs' brave defence, And they continued to hold off the Mughals, to Akbar's dismay. Furthermore, when the mines the sappers had planted prematurely exploded, killing close to one hundred Mughal soldiers, the morale in the Mughal camp had dropped quite low. Shadows of mutiny spread over the camp, hanging over Akbar's crown like an elephant's foot over a condemned man.
Yet in February 1568, one event would mark a complete turnaround for the entire debacle. In the middle of the night, a Rajput shadow snuck itself upon the walls of the fort, seemingly to survey the Mughal forces. Akbar, vigilant as ever, ran to get his matchlock gun. He quickly and quietly took aim and fired. The Rajput figure fell almost instantaneously, and the night continued until dawn broke.
The following day, as the Mughals prepared to continue their assault, they would be met with something quite shocking: distant fires. Many were quite puzzled at the sight, wondering what was going on, however the soldiers of Amber understood right away: it was jauhar. The commander must have died the night before, and the women prepared to cast themselves into fire to avoid being shamed by the assaulters. According to eye-witnesses, many were visibly in tears, seeing the fires and thinking about their own wives, mothers and daughters. The other men had comprehended what had happened. Chittorgarh was theirs, and victory had come.
Inside the fort, however, the Rajputs were resolved to leave the victors bloodied. Brandishing their katars, they charged the Mughals through a breach left in the fort. Though met by two armoured elephants, the Rajputs continued to fight to the death. Eventually, every single one would be killed.
Akbar would order his men into the fortress once the bloody battle was over with and begin a barbaric act which would resonate with the minds of Mewari residents even today: he would order a massacre. Mughal soldiers raided and raped, launching into a tide of terror, which culminated in thirty thousand men, women and children dead. To further cement his domination of the region, Akbar ordered the heads of the vanquished to be cut off and displayed throughout Rajasthan. However, even the emperor was said to have wept upon seeing the events of the massacre, being reminded of his own newborn sons in Agra. Perhaps that is why he chose to leave so early following his victory, making his way to other forts and accepting their surrender.
On the whole, he had won and Rajasthan was his, but the cost was bloody. Akbar had begun the siege with five thousand men, but that number had swollen to sixty thousand by February. The four month siege had seen twenty thousand Mughal casualties, with all eight thousand Rajput defenders killed, along with thirty thousand civilians. It would be a testament to Rajput skill in battle and their valour, and ultimately, though Udai Singh II had continue to evade the Mughals, this was the event which led to Rajput influence and growth in the Empire as a whole.
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Will the Mewari massacre be Akbar's "Ashoka moment," and will it be accompanied by a religious revelation or a turn toward a less expansionist policy?
Also, it seems that the Rajputs will become a military caste within the empire, which already has one in the form of the mamelukes. I wonder if they will cooperate or become rivals.
Also, it seems that the Rajputs will become a military caste within the empire, which already has one in the form of the mamelukes. I wonder if they will cooperate or become rivals.
Given that this is still an OTL event, it is the case. Normally Akbar would be quite benign to the civilian population, but here, he needed to send a message. And a message was sent.
The Rajputs are already the military caste within the empire. After all, they're the backbone of the Mughal Empire....without their support, things will go into disarray. But Mewar has not yet surrendered, and neither will it for a long time to come. I'd like to point out that changes will be gradual, and start to take shape later on in Akbar's reign. The big, gaping difference here, is that Gujarat is already under Mughal control, and that's a big boon to them.
EDIT: At least in the north. The south will see an...interesting divergence to say the least.
Venkateswaran, Ramachandra Trade and Terror: How the Kingdom of Mysore Rose to Become a True Power (Zafar Publishing, 2008)
Malik Bahadur was a seasoned commander and an able warrior, despite his limp, when his soldiers set out to capture Mysore, and he had under his command six thousand men from his slave army with which he could undertake his quest. However, they were tired from their journey, and were not eager to fight against a force within the walls of a fort. Even with the severe shortage of manpower the fort had, in the wake of a large number of its men being sent to defend against Bijapur, even the four thousand left were more than able to repel a strong army at the gates of the fort, let alone a half-starved, tired and restless one. As a result Malik Bahadur would have to take the fort not through outright force, but stratagem. And he would have to make use of the advantage his weapons gave him.
On the 17th of May, 1567, Malik sent a messenger to the city, taking great pains to instruct the man to skirt around the walls to make it seem that he had come from the east, from Vijayanagar, and made him carry falsified letters. Real messengers would often be captured by Malik's horsemen and co-opted into the process, or executed. The letters would keep coming in for a month, and began to state Malik was the commander of the forces of the Sultan of Bijapur, and he was in control over Vijayanagar. He wrote that "A large sum of golden coins will be awarded to the King if his Majesty were to peacefully surrender, and he would be allowed to continue his rule, as long as he paid tribute to His Magnificence, the Sultan of Bijapur."
The king of Mysore, Thimmaraja II flattered though he was, at Malik for addressing him with such respect, was not yet fully convinced, forcing Malik to resort to another tactic.
The morning of June 15th, another letter arrived inside the fort, stating that "six hundred men, all dispatched from the Sultan to meet with His Majesty and discuss the terms of his graceful acquiescence outside the fort." The king knew this was a trap. But he also had to assess his options, and with all the information coming in from Vijayanagar seeming to indicate its defeat at the hands of Bijapur, it was a gamble he would risk. But he was quite shrewd, and sent loyal scouts to assess the actual number of men outside his fort.
Upon finding out that none of them carried the banners of the Sultan of Bijapur, the King of Mysore and his remaining soldiers fortified the fortress and got ready to defend against Malik Bahadur. Malik, for his part, understood that their ruse was discovered, and began to talk to his troops, guaranteeing them a glorious victory, promising them wealth, but most importantly, a new home. Many were receptive to this, and gladly stood by him. Most importantly, however, was that he had enough men to man the guns.
On the 1st of July, 1567, after much deliberation and planning, Malik's forces began their attack.
Thimmaraja II, the king of Mysore, did not yield when he was left under siege by the forces of the Abyssinian Musalman, Malik Bahadur. On the contrary, the king took an active role defending the walls of the fort and spent much of his time behind a matchlock. One must note, however, the dwindling amount of supplies left inside the fort, as gunpowder and ammunition were becoming a rare find. Luckily the matchlocks were able to substitute stones in exchange for bullets, but without gunpowder, it would be harder to defend. Meanwhile, Malik's forces, too, suffered the same fate, lacking the necessary ammunition needed to maintain a long siege. As a result, he would have to find a way inside the fort, with the minimum amount of expenditure, both in arms and in men.
What happened next was treachery. Through unclear circumstances, the slave soldiers managed to bribe the guards of the gates to the city. The morning of June 7th, Malik's forces stormed the fort, to the surprise of Thimmaraja's soldiers, and volleys of shots were fired from one end to the other, as they made their way to the gates. The Mysore troops had not noticed until it was too late, and the gates burst open, with their enemy flooding in. Many immediately left their posts at the top of the walls and descended to meet their foes in brutal hand-to-hand combat, while their comrades attempted to hold back the tide of soldiers by shooting from the top. Swords clashed and shields battered against each other, as Musalman and Hindu battled for supremacy within the city. With the vicious battle taking place within Mysore, seeing many civilians killed along with the soldiers, the two leaders were forced to call a ceasefire.
It is described that the sheer chaos present during the day had laid way to a peaceful, silent night. In the king's chambers, an agreement would be made. Thimmaraja would remain king, and the Wodeyar dynasty would be protected for future generations, however they would share power with Malik Bahadur and the Abyssinian dynasty. In essence, Mysore would have a hereditary wakil who would rule alongside the king.
Looking at the agreement through contemporary eyes, it is easy to see why it was a prudent decision by both parties. Malik Bahadur had managed to secure real power, unlike in Golconda, as well as secure a kingdom with a good coastline which could be explored in the future. For Thimmaraja, refusing this compromise would be tantamount to supporting Vijayanagar's vassalisation of his dominions, something that angered him profusely. Not to mention the combined army of close to eight thousand still in good shape was more than enough to hold out against any of Vijayanagar's forces, and the fact that it was now possible to import more ammunition and supplies without an opposing force breathing down their back.
That the agreement would sow the seeds for Mysore's growth and influence in the future was not yet apparent at this time, but this would mark the beginning of a period of intense cooperation and focus, which was lacked before, to create a nation with set goals and aspirations. For Thimmaraja wanted to set up a state where his dynasty would be secured, and his descendants could rule in peace and prosperity. For Malik the goal was to achieve prosperity through trade with other peoples, and ultimately the idea of increasing the role of the traditional merchant guilds of India into something more- agents of the Empire.
Malik Bahadur was a seasoned commander and an able warrior, despite his limp, when his soldiers set out to capture Mysore, and he had under his command six thousand men from his slave army with which he could undertake his quest. However, they were tired from their journey, and were not eager to fight against a force within the walls of a fort. Even with the severe shortage of manpower the fort had, in the wake of a large number of its men being sent to defend against Bijapur, even the four thousand left were more than able to repel a strong army at the gates of the fort, let alone a half-starved, tired and restless one. As a result Malik Bahadur would have to take the fort not through outright force, but stratagem. And he would have to make use of the advantage his weapons gave him.
On the 17th of May, 1567, Malik sent a messenger to the city, taking great pains to instruct the man to skirt around the walls to make it seem that he had come from the east, from Vijayanagar, and made him carry falsified letters. Real messengers would often be captured by Malik's horsemen and co-opted into the process, or executed. The letters would keep coming in for a month, and began to state Malik was the commander of the forces of the Sultan of Bijapur, and he was in control over Vijayanagar. He wrote that "A large sum of golden coins will be awarded to the King if his Majesty were to peacefully surrender, and he would be allowed to continue his rule, as long as he paid tribute to His Magnificence, the Sultan of Bijapur."
The king of Mysore, Thimmaraja II flattered though he was, at Malik for addressing him with such respect, was not yet fully convinced, forcing Malik to resort to another tactic.
The morning of June 15th, another letter arrived inside the fort, stating that "six hundred men, all dispatched from the Sultan to meet with His Majesty and discuss the terms of his graceful acquiescence outside the fort." The king knew this was a trap. But he also had to assess his options, and with all the information coming in from Vijayanagar seeming to indicate its defeat at the hands of Bijapur, it was a gamble he would risk. But he was quite shrewd, and sent loyal scouts to assess the actual number of men outside his fort.
Upon finding out that none of them carried the banners of the Sultan of Bijapur, the King of Mysore and his remaining soldiers fortified the fortress and got ready to defend against Malik Bahadur. Malik, for his part, understood that their ruse was discovered, and began to talk to his troops, guaranteeing them a glorious victory, promising them wealth, but most importantly, a new home. Many were receptive to this, and gladly stood by him. Most importantly, however, was that he had enough men to man the guns.
On the 1st of July, 1567, after much deliberation and planning, Malik's forces began their attack.
**********************
Thimmaraja II, the king of Mysore, did not yield when he was left under siege by the forces of the Abyssinian Musalman, Malik Bahadur. On the contrary, the king took an active role defending the walls of the fort and spent much of his time behind a matchlock. One must note, however, the dwindling amount of supplies left inside the fort, as gunpowder and ammunition were becoming a rare find. Luckily the matchlocks were able to substitute stones in exchange for bullets, but without gunpowder, it would be harder to defend. Meanwhile, Malik's forces, too, suffered the same fate, lacking the necessary ammunition needed to maintain a long siege. As a result, he would have to find a way inside the fort, with the minimum amount of expenditure, both in arms and in men.
What happened next was treachery. Through unclear circumstances, the slave soldiers managed to bribe the guards of the gates to the city. The morning of June 7th, Malik's forces stormed the fort, to the surprise of Thimmaraja's soldiers, and volleys of shots were fired from one end to the other, as they made their way to the gates. The Mysore troops had not noticed until it was too late, and the gates burst open, with their enemy flooding in. Many immediately left their posts at the top of the walls and descended to meet their foes in brutal hand-to-hand combat, while their comrades attempted to hold back the tide of soldiers by shooting from the top. Swords clashed and shields battered against each other, as Musalman and Hindu battled for supremacy within the city. With the vicious battle taking place within Mysore, seeing many civilians killed along with the soldiers, the two leaders were forced to call a ceasefire.
It is described that the sheer chaos present during the day had laid way to a peaceful, silent night. In the king's chambers, an agreement would be made. Thimmaraja would remain king, and the Wodeyar dynasty would be protected for future generations, however they would share power with Malik Bahadur and the Abyssinian dynasty. In essence, Mysore would have a hereditary wakil who would rule alongside the king.
Looking at the agreement through contemporary eyes, it is easy to see why it was a prudent decision by both parties. Malik Bahadur had managed to secure real power, unlike in Golconda, as well as secure a kingdom with a good coastline which could be explored in the future. For Thimmaraja, refusing this compromise would be tantamount to supporting Vijayanagar's vassalisation of his dominions, something that angered him profusely. Not to mention the combined army of close to eight thousand still in good shape was more than enough to hold out against any of Vijayanagar's forces, and the fact that it was now possible to import more ammunition and supplies without an opposing force breathing down their back.
That the agreement would sow the seeds for Mysore's growth and influence in the future was not yet apparent at this time, but this would mark the beginning of a period of intense cooperation and focus, which was lacked before, to create a nation with set goals and aspirations. For Thimmaraja wanted to set up a state where his dynasty would be secured, and his descendants could rule in peace and prosperity. For Malik the goal was to achieve prosperity through trade with other peoples, and ultimately the idea of increasing the role of the traditional merchant guilds of India into something more- agents of the Empire.
Rather than asking whether this is OTL, I'll risk showing off my ignorance again and guess that it isn't.
Is there any precedent for such a dual dynasty in India? That kind of thing usually isn't very stable, because each dynasty will be scheming against the other, but for the time being, the interests of the two seem to be aligned. Malik Bahadur also looks set to develop a very powerful base of clients throughout the region - I suspect he'll end up the more powerful of the two before all's said and done.
Is there any precedent for such a dual dynasty in India? That kind of thing usually isn't very stable, because each dynasty will be scheming against the other, but for the time being, the interests of the two seem to be aligned. Malik Bahadur also looks set to develop a very powerful base of clients throughout the region - I suspect he'll end up the more powerful of the two before all's said and done.
Nope. Malik Bahadur's fictional, after all.Rather than asking whether this is OTL, I'll risk showing off my ignorance again and guess that it isn't.
Is there any precedent for such a dual dynasty in India? That kind of thing usually isn't very stable, because each dynasty will be scheming against the other, but for the time being, the interests of the two seem to be aligned. Malik Bahadur also looks set to develop a very powerful base of clients throughout the region - I suspect he'll end up the more powerful of the two before all's said and done.
The closest thing to a dual dynasty that I know was the Hyder Ali/ Tipu Sultan and the Wodeyars in Mysore during the 1700s. Here however, the Wodeyars retain much of their power. And both of the groups are pretty desperate, because once the war with Bijapur ends, Vijayanagar will want to rectify things in the region.
Though Malik Bahadur will most probably end up the more powerful of the two here, who is to say if his son can maintain that? After all, though he is focused on building Mysore's base of clients, it is Thimmaraja who focuses on Mysore itself. Think of it as MB being concerned with foreign affairs, while TW is internal affairs.
Nope. Malik Bahadur's fictional, after all.
Fair enough. This place and time is fascinating, but I don't know nearly as much about it as I should, so I sometimes lose track of who's fictional and who isn't.
I guess that depends on what Mysore becomes. If it's the center of a trading empire, then the dynasty that controls the ports and the merchant houses will be the more powerful one. If it becomes a strong nation-state, then the home dynasty will be. If it's both... well, you'll either get epic rivalry or one hell of a team.
That's alright. I can understand the confusion, as I am the one mixing fiction and non fiction, but I feel as if some important events should be covered, after all. For instance, Akbar wasn't always the great man we know today, and he did have a God complex. So where that might have originated, at least for me, is pretty important.
It really does. But I'd rather not spoil anything in Mysore's case, being as I'm not too sure myself. I haven't really planned out everything, rather than that, I just get the gist of what the future will hold. Though I'm more or less sure in the north, the south will be different, for sure. I'd also like to mention that what happened in Mysore in this update was not pre-planned....it came as a spur of the moment thing, but I suppose the best way to describe him is as a less powerful Shogun.
I have a question to any readers who maybe knowledgeable about Ming China, but how would it react to a relationship with a power that sees it as its equals?
Just have the last few updates to read, but its really good and nice to read a TL focused on India. Curious how this will all link up. Also like how the difference in slavery in India is presented. Its not implied in the TL, but its quite different in the Americas obviously. Being a slave overall sucks, but no plantation owner was going to let one of his slaves raise a full fledged military force. Still, slavery was used for different purposes in each of those parts of the world.
This makes me can't wait to get the chapters on India up in my TL too
This makes me can't wait to get the chapters on India up in my TL too
Thanks. Slavery in India really was varied, and you had your mamelukes, your administrative slaves, etc. etc.Just have the last few updates to read, but its really good and nice to read a TL focused on India. Curious how this will all link up. Also like how the difference in slavery in India is presented. Its not implied in the TL, but its quite different in the Americas obviously. Being a slave overall sucks, but no plantation owner was going to let one of his slaves raise a full fledged military force. Still, slavery was used for different purposes in each of those parts of the world.
This makes me can't wait to get the chapters on India up in my TL too
[FONT="]Venkateswaran, Ramachandra Trade and Terror: How the Kingdom of Mysore Rose to Become a True Power (Zafar Publishing, 2008)[/FONT]
The king's work in Mysore had not been done, with the independence...Mysore would have to prove its might, and it was especially crucial that it did so, given that Bijapur would manage to capture Vijayanagar by the Spring of 1572, in a war that became long drawn out. Forced by the circumstances to relocate to the Tamil provinces, Vijayanagar was broken, and its place as hegemon of the south would have to be replaced, whether it was by Mysore or not. What would be most striking, however, was just how Thimmaraja and Malik Bahadur would do this: through the Dharmaraj reforms. These would become the framework to a new state...one that would make its people invested in its existence, so much so that they would remain loyal against the no doubt returning forces of Vijayanagar, eager to reclaim its lands. The consequences of said reforms would however, not only change the shape of Mysore, but all of India.
In 1576, Mysore was not so much a kingdom, as much as an unruly group of feudal lords, each more or less subservient to the king... there was no coherence in their goals, and they were all in a position to profit from this. They were able to make money from other lords seeking goods from the coast, and the coastal lords would prove quite wealthy...serving to supply funding to anyone serving their interests...indeed they would be a major source of money for Malik Bahadur and Thimmaraja before Vijayanagar would be completely defeated. As a result the dual kings owed a debt to them, just as they owed debts to many of the other lords, and it would not do to owe debts, as that weakened the power of the capital. And both Malik and Thimmaraja were of the same opinion: that they should have more power. This was what would form the crux of the Dharmaraj policies that would be enacted over the decades.
The policies were aimed at making the caste system (one of the most rigid on the subcontinent) more fluid, and groups such as the Lingayatistsm, though resented by Thimmaraja himself, were conscripted to participate in the institutions created at the capital. Schools tailored to prepare people for administration were created that generally did not discriminate based on caste (during its inception, however, this would not be the case. Only hundreds of years later, would untouchables get to attend them). This would serve to create a new class of men (now dubbed zamindars, after their Mughal equivalents), who would regulate the provincial lords through examinations. They were often accompanied with soldiers so that if any of the lords proved incompetent, they would be swiftly dethroned and replaced. This excuse would be slowly used to eliminate all of the lords and replace them with candidates chosen in Mysore. This would not go unnoticed, and indeed large-scale rebellion often occurred, but the end result was a more centralised state, with much more power accorded to the two kings.
With the coastal lords, different measures were taken. Their large finances left them more able to resist, and should they do so, goods coming in to the capital by sea would siphon the wealth of the entire state. As a result, proxy rivals, in the form of trade guilds, were funded directly from Mysore, creating an ersatz trade war in Mangalore between the lords who wished to create a monopoly, and the guilds, which profited greatly from the investments coming in from the dual monarchy. Indeed by 1612, well after the deaths of both Malik and Thimmaraja, the guilds were able to focus their power into the creation of the Lords of Karavali, (known as the Mysore Company in Europe), who would become a very powerful force, not only in trade but in the establishment of Indian influence in both Africa and Southeast Asia, perhaps becoming the most important legacy of the Dharmaraj.
More importantly, however, is that Mysore would flourish as a result of these reforms, and it is they which caused their sun to rise over the Ocean.
The king's work in Mysore had not been done, with the independence...Mysore would have to prove its might, and it was especially crucial that it did so, given that Bijapur would manage to capture Vijayanagar by the Spring of 1572, in a war that became long drawn out. Forced by the circumstances to relocate to the Tamil provinces, Vijayanagar was broken, and its place as hegemon of the south would have to be replaced, whether it was by Mysore or not. What would be most striking, however, was just how Thimmaraja and Malik Bahadur would do this: through the Dharmaraj reforms. These would become the framework to a new state...one that would make its people invested in its existence, so much so that they would remain loyal against the no doubt returning forces of Vijayanagar, eager to reclaim its lands. The consequences of said reforms would however, not only change the shape of Mysore, but all of India.
In 1576, Mysore was not so much a kingdom, as much as an unruly group of feudal lords, each more or less subservient to the king... there was no coherence in their goals, and they were all in a position to profit from this. They were able to make money from other lords seeking goods from the coast, and the coastal lords would prove quite wealthy...serving to supply funding to anyone serving their interests...indeed they would be a major source of money for Malik Bahadur and Thimmaraja before Vijayanagar would be completely defeated. As a result the dual kings owed a debt to them, just as they owed debts to many of the other lords, and it would not do to owe debts, as that weakened the power of the capital. And both Malik and Thimmaraja were of the same opinion: that they should have more power. This was what would form the crux of the Dharmaraj policies that would be enacted over the decades.
The policies were aimed at making the caste system (one of the most rigid on the subcontinent) more fluid, and groups such as the Lingayatistsm, though resented by Thimmaraja himself, were conscripted to participate in the institutions created at the capital. Schools tailored to prepare people for administration were created that generally did not discriminate based on caste (during its inception, however, this would not be the case. Only hundreds of years later, would untouchables get to attend them). This would serve to create a new class of men (now dubbed zamindars, after their Mughal equivalents), who would regulate the provincial lords through examinations. They were often accompanied with soldiers so that if any of the lords proved incompetent, they would be swiftly dethroned and replaced. This excuse would be slowly used to eliminate all of the lords and replace them with candidates chosen in Mysore. This would not go unnoticed, and indeed large-scale rebellion often occurred, but the end result was a more centralised state, with much more power accorded to the two kings.
With the coastal lords, different measures were taken. Their large finances left them more able to resist, and should they do so, goods coming in to the capital by sea would siphon the wealth of the entire state. As a result, proxy rivals, in the form of trade guilds, were funded directly from Mysore, creating an ersatz trade war in Mangalore between the lords who wished to create a monopoly, and the guilds, which profited greatly from the investments coming in from the dual monarchy. Indeed by 1612, well after the deaths of both Malik and Thimmaraja, the guilds were able to focus their power into the creation of the Lords of Karavali, (known as the Mysore Company in Europe), who would become a very powerful force, not only in trade but in the establishment of Indian influence in both Africa and Southeast Asia, perhaps becoming the most important legacy of the Dharmaraj.
More importantly, however, is that Mysore would flourish as a result of these reforms, and it is they which caused their sun to rise over the Ocean.
I assume these reforms are TTL, or at least a quick internet search didn't reveal any OTL equivalent to them. Do the administrative schools begin by accepting all castes except the untouchables, and offer admission to the dalits in later centuries? Although unfortunate, that makes sense, because if they admitted untouchables right away, they might never gain the legitimacy necessary to create the mandarinate that Malik Bahadur and Thimmaraja want to create. Once the caste system has been weakened and people have time to get used to the idea, appointing untouchable officials will be more thinkable.
Are any efforts being made to co-opt the sea lords and bring them into the new guild system? I assume that as the guilds flourish, and especially once they coalesce into a company, there will be marriage alliances between them and the remaining noble houses, which might help make the latter class loyal to the dual monarchy.
Are any efforts being made to co-opt the sea lords and bring them into the new guild system? I assume that as the guilds flourish, and especially once they coalesce into a company, there will be marriage alliances between them and the remaining noble houses, which might help make the latter class loyal to the dual monarchy.
I'm going to go into the Dharmaraj stuff with more detail later on, but as it starts, generally only Brahmins and the rich benefit....but slowly more and more people will be able to go....you are right about the untouchables, and even the reason why. Baby steps, after all.
The sea lords are basically competing with the guilds, and indeed some will be funding their own....marriage alliances, as always, are the keys to power....more will be shed on this later. However, this is not to say that all of them are against this, and many may see the guilds as a way of gaining even more power, even if officially, they have to bow a bit longer to the dual monarchy.
June and July 1575
Dawn broke across the Agra Fort, as Raja Birbal made his way to a secluded room within, meeting with Abul Fazl and Abdurrahman Khan, two of His Majesty's most trusted advisers. Oddly enough, the Emperor himself was not present.
"Salaam Abul Fazl; Abdurrahman," Birbal started, "But where is His Majesty?"
"Haven't you heard?" Abdurrahman replied, "Another son was born to His Majesty yesterday night; they named him Murad."
"The Emperor has decided to take a rest for two weeks," Abul Fazl added, "and he will only be holding court from the afternoon."
"So, why are we here, then?" Birbal asked, though he suspected. He noticed Abul Fazl adjusting his turban, sweat dripping down onto his face, and Abdurrahman Khan, too looked a bit disappointed. Mysore, then, he guessed.
Abul Fazl had noticed his eyes analysing them, and simply continued without answering the question, "Malik Bahadur is doing quite a bit in the South, and though it may seem distant, the fact of the matter is that we must deal with the situation in Vijayanagar."
It is true. Vijayanagar was a problem that would fester, and with Bijapur holding the fabled 'City of Victory', all while an African held dominion over the Empire's carcass, the balance of power would be affected.
The Emperor himself had been too affected by Mewar to act upon this, and so, here they were, the three great pillars of the Empire, discussing its fate.
"Abul Fazl believes that we must begin to build our own navy to counter the rebirth of the guilds. I myself cannot say I disagree." Abdurrahman added, "If Mysore manages to create a large fleet, then with their combined army and navy, they would pose a very real threat to our dominion. However, while Gujarat possesses good ports and is our traditional gateway to the sea-"
"-you believe Bengal would be more secure." Birbal concluded, "But the Subahdar of Bengal will gain a lot of influence, then."
"That's where our problem comes in," Abul Fazl said, adding "Jahanpanah wishes to secure a port in the region, but we have just conquered Bengal. And while His Majesty could make any land he wished his khalsa, it would most likely anger the Bengalis."
"So you believe that the best issue now it to emulate Mysore." Birbal deduced, "And I suppose that means that I will be heading southbound." A holiday is a holiday, he supposed. And the coast of Mysore was supposed to be quite beautiful.
"Nehi, Raja, I will be heading southwards; the merchants have lent me a ship," Abdurrahman said, oddly enough smiling; perhaps at the fact that he robbed him of some pleasure. "It would be better for a Muslim, I think; all those Turkish gunners will need to see a friendly face."
"I suppose, then, that I shall go to Bengal," Birbal assumed.
"No, I'm sure the zamindars can figure out which land is good." Abul Fazl continued, "You will be going to Orissa with Hussain Quli Begh; to take care of that upstart Afghan, Daud Shah, once and for all."
"Trying to get rid of me, I see!" Birbal playfully jested. Daud Shah was on the verge of rebelling again, and the fact of the matter was that Bengal would only be safe, once his head was on a plate before Jahanpanah.
As he left the room, Birbal spotted the three young princes at the edge of the courtyard; Hasan and Husain, both playfully taunting poor young Salim. He wondered what poor Salim would do once his father died; a dark thought forming in his mind that he might simply end up dead at the hands of his bullies.
Birbal simply shook off the thought and mounted his horse. Orissa was a long way from Agra.
******************************
"Father! Don't!"
THWAK! The slap hit him right in the face, the rings on his father's left hand scratching his cheek, letting out blood.
It had been a hard life. Ranjit Dhillon an even harder father. He had experienced great pain, fighting his entire life. That was what Feroze consoled himself with every night. It wasn't his fault; that was just all the pain rushing back to his father's head.
Yet it still hurt. All he could do when he was younger was withdraw himself into a world of fantasy. Yet now, now, he was older, and he had had enough. Just as his father prepared one more hit, he grabbed his father's hand, and launched his fist into Ranjit's stomach. Walking away from the mess he had made, he simply grabbed his things and left. But where to go?
When he was young, he would dream about going anywhere in the world. His time in Madurai had instilled into him a belief in the legend of Kumari Kandam; somewhere in the south, this unknown land was waiting for him. But he also wanted to travel to the land of the Ferangis and beyond. He wanted to be able to go wherever he wanted to, without any care in life. Most of all, however, he wanted to write about everything he saw, and so this day, he would make a vow to never come back home until he saw the world.
****************************
Feroze Dhillon's first thought when he entered Malabar was about how hot it was. Mosquitoes seemed to pick him apart as he walked to the bazaar. Yet he swatted them away, determined to get to where he needed to be: on a boat out of India.
When he arrived in front of a merchant, a swarthy-looking fellow with a long, curly beard, he felt relieved. The merchant needed people to help him on the boat, and Feroze gladly obliged, offering to work for little pay. He would ship pepper to Zanj, and travel from there to Mombasa.
"When do we leave?" he asked, impatient as ever.
"By dawn tomorrow. Though I should warn you, the Portuguese are a little violent when it comes to the seas. The dogs believe the whole sea belongs to them!" the merchant decried.
"The Portuguese? Really?" asked Feroze. Though somewhat fanatically religious, he couldn't imagine the Portuguese being a threat. Though, to be fair, he had only met the Jesuit priests, and they seemed mostly harmless.
The merchant seemed surprised. On the seas, it was well attested fact that the Portuguese were basically pirates, but he simply nodded and replied "Yes. Now tell me, boy, why do you wish to work on my ship?"
Feroze saw no harm in telling the man the truth, "It is because I wish to discover what lies beyond this place."
The merchant held back a chuckle, leaving a big, gaping smile on his face when he heard those words. "Have you ever heard of Ibn Battuta?" he asked.
"No, I have not." Feroze replied.
"Not many have. He was a legendary traveller who wrote about his journeys, from Morocco to China. In fact, he was even in Hindustan for a long period of time." the merchant said, "God willing, you will have the same kind of success."
"Thank you. You are very kind." Feroze said, with genuine gratitude.
"Hush, now, boy. You still need to work if you want to leave for Mombasa!" the merchant replied
"Sir, what is your name?" Feroze asked
"Adham. But boy, beware: many will want to take advantage of you. Trust no one but yourself, and work hard....especially if you want to get off this boat! For now, however, let's see if we can find a brothel."
And so Feroze walked with his new boss into the city, where he would make his first discovery of the unknown.
Dawn broke across the Agra Fort, as Raja Birbal made his way to a secluded room within, meeting with Abul Fazl and Abdurrahman Khan, two of His Majesty's most trusted advisers. Oddly enough, the Emperor himself was not present.
"Salaam Abul Fazl; Abdurrahman," Birbal started, "But where is His Majesty?"
"Haven't you heard?" Abdurrahman replied, "Another son was born to His Majesty yesterday night; they named him Murad."
"The Emperor has decided to take a rest for two weeks," Abul Fazl added, "and he will only be holding court from the afternoon."
"So, why are we here, then?" Birbal asked, though he suspected. He noticed Abul Fazl adjusting his turban, sweat dripping down onto his face, and Abdurrahman Khan, too looked a bit disappointed. Mysore, then, he guessed.
Abul Fazl had noticed his eyes analysing them, and simply continued without answering the question, "Malik Bahadur is doing quite a bit in the South, and though it may seem distant, the fact of the matter is that we must deal with the situation in Vijayanagar."
It is true. Vijayanagar was a problem that would fester, and with Bijapur holding the fabled 'City of Victory', all while an African held dominion over the Empire's carcass, the balance of power would be affected.
The Emperor himself had been too affected by Mewar to act upon this, and so, here they were, the three great pillars of the Empire, discussing its fate.
"Abul Fazl believes that we must begin to build our own navy to counter the rebirth of the guilds. I myself cannot say I disagree." Abdurrahman added, "If Mysore manages to create a large fleet, then with their combined army and navy, they would pose a very real threat to our dominion. However, while Gujarat possesses good ports and is our traditional gateway to the sea-"
"-you believe Bengal would be more secure." Birbal concluded, "But the Subahdar of Bengal will gain a lot of influence, then."
"That's where our problem comes in," Abul Fazl said, adding "Jahanpanah wishes to secure a port in the region, but we have just conquered Bengal. And while His Majesty could make any land he wished his khalsa, it would most likely anger the Bengalis."
"So you believe that the best issue now it to emulate Mysore." Birbal deduced, "And I suppose that means that I will be heading southbound." A holiday is a holiday, he supposed. And the coast of Mysore was supposed to be quite beautiful.
"Nehi, Raja, I will be heading southwards; the merchants have lent me a ship," Abdurrahman said, oddly enough smiling; perhaps at the fact that he robbed him of some pleasure. "It would be better for a Muslim, I think; all those Turkish gunners will need to see a friendly face."
"I suppose, then, that I shall go to Bengal," Birbal assumed.
"No, I'm sure the zamindars can figure out which land is good." Abul Fazl continued, "You will be going to Orissa with Hussain Quli Begh; to take care of that upstart Afghan, Daud Shah, once and for all."
"Trying to get rid of me, I see!" Birbal playfully jested. Daud Shah was on the verge of rebelling again, and the fact of the matter was that Bengal would only be safe, once his head was on a plate before Jahanpanah.
As he left the room, Birbal spotted the three young princes at the edge of the courtyard; Hasan and Husain, both playfully taunting poor young Salim. He wondered what poor Salim would do once his father died; a dark thought forming in his mind that he might simply end up dead at the hands of his bullies.
Birbal simply shook off the thought and mounted his horse. Orissa was a long way from Agra.
******************************
"Father! Don't!"
THWAK! The slap hit him right in the face, the rings on his father's left hand scratching his cheek, letting out blood.
It had been a hard life. Ranjit Dhillon an even harder father. He had experienced great pain, fighting his entire life. That was what Feroze consoled himself with every night. It wasn't his fault; that was just all the pain rushing back to his father's head.
Yet it still hurt. All he could do when he was younger was withdraw himself into a world of fantasy. Yet now, now, he was older, and he had had enough. Just as his father prepared one more hit, he grabbed his father's hand, and launched his fist into Ranjit's stomach. Walking away from the mess he had made, he simply grabbed his things and left. But where to go?
When he was young, he would dream about going anywhere in the world. His time in Madurai had instilled into him a belief in the legend of Kumari Kandam; somewhere in the south, this unknown land was waiting for him. But he also wanted to travel to the land of the Ferangis and beyond. He wanted to be able to go wherever he wanted to, without any care in life. Most of all, however, he wanted to write about everything he saw, and so this day, he would make a vow to never come back home until he saw the world.
****************************
Feroze Dhillon's first thought when he entered Malabar was about how hot it was. Mosquitoes seemed to pick him apart as he walked to the bazaar. Yet he swatted them away, determined to get to where he needed to be: on a boat out of India.
When he arrived in front of a merchant, a swarthy-looking fellow with a long, curly beard, he felt relieved. The merchant needed people to help him on the boat, and Feroze gladly obliged, offering to work for little pay. He would ship pepper to Zanj, and travel from there to Mombasa.
"When do we leave?" he asked, impatient as ever.
"By dawn tomorrow. Though I should warn you, the Portuguese are a little violent when it comes to the seas. The dogs believe the whole sea belongs to them!" the merchant decried.
"The Portuguese? Really?" asked Feroze. Though somewhat fanatically religious, he couldn't imagine the Portuguese being a threat. Though, to be fair, he had only met the Jesuit priests, and they seemed mostly harmless.
The merchant seemed surprised. On the seas, it was well attested fact that the Portuguese were basically pirates, but he simply nodded and replied "Yes. Now tell me, boy, why do you wish to work on my ship?"
Feroze saw no harm in telling the man the truth, "It is because I wish to discover what lies beyond this place."
The merchant held back a chuckle, leaving a big, gaping smile on his face when he heard those words. "Have you ever heard of Ibn Battuta?" he asked.
"No, I have not." Feroze replied.
"Not many have. He was a legendary traveller who wrote about his journeys, from Morocco to China. In fact, he was even in Hindustan for a long period of time." the merchant said, "God willing, you will have the same kind of success."
"Thank you. You are very kind." Feroze said, with genuine gratitude.
"Hush, now, boy. You still need to work if you want to leave for Mombasa!" the merchant replied
"Sir, what is your name?" Feroze asked
"Adham. But boy, beware: many will want to take advantage of you. Trust no one but yourself, and work hard....especially if you want to get off this boat! For now, however, let's see if we can find a brothel."
And so Feroze walked with his new boss into the city, where he would make his first discovery of the unknown.
Cool update. Surely the empire will need a naval port on the west coast as well as one in Bengal, though - a Bengal-based fleet couldn't easily threaten Mysore or react to provocations from the Mysore navy, especially if there are other unfriendly powers in the way. Some of the navy will probably have to be based in Gujarat regardless of the security risks.