¡Por la Patria, Viva México Fuerte! A Mexican TL

Amazing TL! Very well written and awesome map! It's subscribed! :D

And I love the Title very much too! Haven't seen TLs about Mexico that are as wonderful as this one yet! Keep it up! ;)
 
haha don't worry demonkangaroo, this timeline is far from dead, I've just been preoccupied with school and work, but make no mistake I will dish out another update in the foreseeable future, and thanks again for your interest :)

Also I had been in somewhat of a writer's block, thanks goes to GreatScottMarty for digging me out of it :D

Yay! Thanks for the subscription Korporal Nooij, I'm glad you're liking it...and I must say I also love the name of your timeline as well :D
 
1812: The Rebellion Escalates! Enter the United States (Part 1)
Revamped 1812

I'm going ahead with implementing GreatScottMarty's ideas into the timeline, so in order to do that I redid the beginning of 1812. Also note that the update for all of 1812 will be longer, as I will be flushing out the details of America fighting both in the Caribbean and New Spain. I'm currently working on the war itself now, so for now enjoy this little update :)

1812: The Rebellion Escalates! Enter the United States(Part 1)

It had now been over a year since the beginning of the war for independence against Spain, and it seemed that every day the nature of the struggle changed. In November 1810, when the leaders of the Revolution met in México City consensus was, for the most part, achieved that the struggle was being fought in the name of Fernando VII, the deposed King of Spain. By 1812 many of the leaders were beginning to have reservations regarding the deposed monarchy, but made no public statements so as to aid in recruiting more people to the cause, as many common folk still had not warmed up to the idea of gaining complete independence from Spain. The public consensus on independence will make a swift veer in the opposite direction by the end of the year as the situation for the Royalists continues to worsen.

In the north, Rayón managed to make a very important ally in the form of Bernardo Gutiérrez de Lara. A native of Nuevo Santander, Gutiérrez was a fervent supporter of the Revolution, initially aiding Rayón in his campaign through Tejas a year earlier. Acting on orders from Rayón, Gutiérrez would embark on a visit to the United States early in 1812. Joining Ortiz de Letona, both men would gain an audience in the House of Representatives on 22 March 1812, where they pleaded legislators on aid for Mexican Independence, citing how foreign aid was instrumental in the United States very own independence. A great number of Congressman were moved my the speech, and gain a great deal of interest in the conflict, if nothing else for the incentives it provided the United States in real estate. In particular Spanish Florida had been coveted by many Americans for several years now, and snatching them from a weakened Spain seemed like the perfect chance. The speeches by the Mexican Delegation also forced many congressmen to reconsider their stance on future expansionist policies to the south and west. Although there was still some residual animosity felt for Canada by the United States, many congressman from New England opposed outright war with Britain, seeing any gains made in invading Canada and dueling Great Britain on the seas as too few, insignificant and costly in the long run. “The Mexican Lobby,” as it came to be known, would continue to persuade congressmen to their cause, mostly northerners but a few southerners would make up the Lobby’s ranks. Throughout the spring of 1812 the Lobby would not only try to get Madison to pay attention, but also gain the support of Speaker of the House Henry Clay, who was a strong advocate for war against Britain. On the evening of 7 April, about two weeks after they were granted an audience in the House of Representatives, Letona and Lara met with Speaker Clay in order to discuss a possible compromise: México would be willing to renounce any claims to Florida and Cuba, as well as conceding portions of Tejas and the northern territories to the United States in exchange for money and supplies (and possible military support!) for the Insurgent army in the fight against Spain (Allende and the rest of the Insurgents would not know of this deal for several months, but would more or less accept valuable support). Although up to this point Clay supported war against Great Britain, being the de facto leader of the “War Hawks” in Congress to fight against Britain, the prospect of fighting Spain, who could not seem to control its own territory on the Iberian Peninsula let alone its American colonies, and stand a reasonably good chance at not having to worry about Spanish retaliation (the same could not be said about a fight with the British) seemed enticing. The next day Clay would inform President Madison about the compromise, adding that even if Canada is taken, the fact of the matter was that the Royal Navy should not be one to be trifled with. There was still the question of British impressment of American sailors, but it was also known that France was guilty of doing the same to American sailors, as well as the fact that Britain had not yet yielded to Napoléon. Both Clay and Madison also acknowledged that keeping in good relations with Britain meant greater access to trade, which would appease both Northerners and Southerners. Finally, before addressing the issue with Congress, Madison met with Britain’s Envoy to the U.S. Sir Augustus Foster, affirming peace between the United States and Britain and the possibility of war against Spain. Foster, although surprised by this revelation, welcomed Madison’s news and did not immediately object to American aims against Spain, but was not sure what Prime Minister Perceval would make of it. Afterwards, on 2 May 1812, President Madison stood before a joint session of Congress to ask for a declaration of war against Spain, citing Spain as a deterrent to liberty and democracy in the Western Hemisphere. After much deliberation in both the House and Senate, Congress formally declared war against Spain on 18 May 1812 with the House of Representatives voting 93-35 and the Senate voting 23-9.


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Questions, comments, suggestions?

I'm currently also dealing with school and other life matters, so updates will be slow, but this is my baby and I intend to keep it alive! :D
 
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Might I say excellent update :D. I offer no critique on the history except for these thoughts:

1. I learned this other day when researching my own TL, the American-British Impressment Issue was ended by the British Parliament BEFORE we went to War with England in OTL. So if Sir Augustus informs President Madison of this voila no War of 1812 as we know it. Perhaps on going negotiations with England would allow outright annexation of some Carribean territories; this would definitely encourage Southerner feelings towards the War with Spain.

2. While your Mexican Revolution seems more by the people than "For" the people. The large planter elites of both New Spain and the Southern US had much more in common than not. This is something to consider as you forward.

Also Federalism may seem more viable if this Alt-1812 war goes differently as the Federalist Party most likely won't hold the Hartford Convention of 1814. Although, I would say that Clay's American system (from OTL 1820s-1830s) was very Federalist as was JQA's 1828 platform.

Please Continue:)
 
Might I say excellent update :D. I offer no critique on the history except for these thoughts:

1. I learned this other day when researching my own TL, the American-British Impressment Issue was ended by the British Parliament BEFORE we went to War with England in OTL. So if Sir Augustus informs President Madison of this voila no War of 1812 as we know it. Perhaps on going negotiations with England would allow outright annexation of some Carribean territories; this would definitely encourage Southerner feelings towards the War with Spain.

Thank you very much GreatScottMarty! that is a very nice discovery you made there, it's very helpful as I'm planning out future US-UK relations in TTL :)

How long do you think it took for correspondence to occur between London and Washington D.C. in 1812?

2. While your Mexican Revolution seems more by the people than "For" the people. The large planter elites of both New Spain and the Southern US had much more in common than not. This is something to consider as you forward.
On the connection between planter elites/southerners connection, you bring up a very important point. Expect this issue to play a key role in the Republic's politics for quite some time...

Also Federalism may seem more viable if this Alt-1812 war goes differently as the Federalist Party most likely won't hold the Hartford Convention of 1814. Although, I would say that Clay's American system (from OTL 1820s-1830s) was very Federalist as was JQA's 1828 platform.
Hm, I hadn't thought about a longer lasting Federalist Party, would it be possible for the American System (or TTL's equivalent, I haven't given it enough though :p ) to be stronger in TTL?

Please Continue:)
I shall my good sir :)

Subscribed, Arkhangelsk!:)

Thank you so much for the sub, my fellow Archangel! :D
 
Thank you very much GreatScottMarty! that is a very nice discovery you made there, it's very helpful as I'm planning out future US-UK relations in TTL :)

How long do you think it took for correspondence to occur between London and Washington D.C. in 1812?

Arkhangelsk

I think that was the problem OTL. The decision was taken before the US dow but that occurred before the news reached Washington.

Travel in part depended on various variables, i.e. the ship, skill of captain and crew and of course the weather. Think the rough figures was about 4-6 weeks for travel between Europe and N America.

Steve
 
Arkhangelsk

I think that was the problem OTL. The decision was taken before the US dow but that occurred before the news reached Washington.

Travel in part depended on various variables, i.e. the ship, skill of captain and crew and of course the weather. Think the rough figures was about 4-6 weeks for travel between Europe and N America.

Steve

You're right Steve, once the news from Britain arrives then any chances of a British-US war would lose most of its wind.

Oh, and thank you very much for enlightening me on the trans-Atlantic question :)
 
hehe, ok this is (mostly) another shameless bump, I admit it!

I do however want to take this opportunity to ask for some help regarding the impending war between the US and Spain in my TTL. Namely the little details such as who leads the American Army into Florida (and maybe Cuba! :eek: ) as well as how events unfold in Florida. I've been using the First Seminole War to give me ideas but I wanna know what you guys think? As of May 1812, what do you think events would unfold?

I have and exam today and one tomorrow so I'll continue to work on the TL after that.
 
hehe, ok this is (mostly) another shameless bump, I admit it!

I do however want to take this opportunity to ask for some help regarding the impending war between the US and Spain in my TTL. Namely the little details such as who leads the American Army into Florida (and maybe Cuba! :eek: ) as well as how events unfold in Florida. I've been using the First Seminole War to give me ideas but I wanna know what you guys think? As of May 1812, what do you think events would unfold?

I have and exam today and one tomorrow so I'll continue to work on the TL after that.

Well 1812 and the following Indian Wars, Blackhawk (1830s), Red Stick (late 1810s), etc. There were really to many to name; all featured prominent American politicians of the future people like William Henry Harrison, Andrew Jackson, Abe Lincoln, so on and so forth. I would say you would want a southerner at the head of that army into Spanish Florida. Jackson did it in OTL so he is a good choice but I would consider Harrison or Scott as well, Both Virignians and both prominent military men of the time. Harrison fresh off Tippicanoe might be the best, he will be seen as the best Indian fighter and Jackson is not prominent due to no Battle of New Orleans and being a relative country bumpkin. If you do leave Jackson's career alone IIRC he will be a Maj. Gen. of the Tennessee Militia soon.

My personal choice is Harrison.

Back to the navigation question, Stevep is right it is anywhere between 4-8 weeks, but why not use the almighty butterfly to speed things up? If thats the way you want it to go I don't see why you don't have that bill pass a little earlier.

I like how this going keep it coming. Feel free to PM me to bounce ideas or with more specific questions.
 
Well 1812 and the following Indian Wars, Blackhawk (1830s), Red Stick (late 1810s), etc. There were really to many to name; all featured prominent American politicians of the future people like William Henry Harrison, Andrew Jackson, Abe Lincoln, so on and so forth. I would say you would want a southerner at the head of that army into Spanish Florida. Jackson did it in OTL so he is a good choice but I would consider Harrison or Scott as well, Both Virignians and both prominent military men of the time. Harrison fresh off Tippicanoe might be the best, he will be seen as the best Indian fighter and Jackson is not prominent due to no Battle of New Orleans and being a relative country bumpkin. If you do leave Jackson's career alone IIRC he will be a Maj. Gen. of the Tennessee Militia soon.

My personal choice is Harrison.

Back to the navigation question, Stevep is right it is anywhere between 4-8 weeks, but why not use the almighty butterfly to speed things up? If thats the way you want it to go I don't see why you don't have that bill pass a little earlier.

I like how this going keep it coming. Feel free to PM me to bounce ideas or with more specific questions.

Interesting, I had settled on Scott but couldn't decide between Jackson and Harrison. In the end I went along with Harrison for those same reasons, due to his recent victory at Tippecanoe and the fact that Jackson isn't that prominent yet.

Thanks for the info on the navigation question as well, I mainly needed it in order to give me an actual idea of when, for example news of the American DoW would reach Europe...

Thanks yet again GreatScottMarty! I'll definitely PM you next time I have any more ideas and/or questions :)
 
Map of New Spain: 1810
Interlude...

I'm currently working on the next update, so for the mean time...here's a map!

Just a quick thing I managed with my Photoshop and Paint powers combined. I thought it would make visualizing some of the locations better with this...so enjoy! :D

[Addendum] I finally made a proper map, this one also shows the whole of New Spain (minus the Philippines) complete with important cities as well as an overlay of prominent indigenous nation at that time.

Viceroyalty of New Spain in 1810

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1. Intendancy of México
2. Intendancy of Guanajuato
3. Intendancy of Valladolid
4. Intendancy of Guadalajara
5. Intendancy of Zacatecas
6. Intendancy of San Luis Potosí
7. Intendancy of Veracruz
8. Government of Tlaxcala
9. Intendancy of Puebla
10. Intendancy of Oaxaca
11. Intendancy of Mérida
12. Intendancy of Nuevo Santander
13. Intendancy of Nuevo León
14. Province of Tejas
15. Province of Coahuila
16. Intendancy of Durango
17. Intendancy of Sonora
18. Government of Nuevo México
19. Province of Alta California
20. Province of Baja California
21. Intendancy of Chiapas
22. Intendancy of Guatemala
23. Intendancy of San Salvador
24. Intendancy of Comayagua
25. Intendancy of León
26. Province of Costa Rica
27. Province of Florida
28. Intendancy of Habana
29. Intendancy of Puerto Príncipe (incl. Santo Domingo)
30. Intendancy of Santiago de Cuba
31. Intendancy of Puerto Rico
 
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So Mexico circa 1810 includes Cuba and Florida? Doesn't Mexico own everything up to the Mississippi? Or has Napoleon sold louisiana?

As far as I know Spain sold Louisiana back to France in 1800...and France to the US in 1803...although the former negotiations were a bit shady...the rest I leave for someone who is more versed with Louisiana than I...
 
The Rebellion Escalates! Enter the United States (Part 2)
Here's the next update! I've been slow due to midterms, and since it's the end of the year I'll be busy for several more weeks (unfortunately I end term about 4 weeks later than everyone else, on June 11). All this means is the next update will most likely come after June 11, although I may get lucky and be able to shoot one out before then...but I doubt it...

Anyway, without further ado...

1812: The Rebellion Escalates! Enter the United States(Part 2)

The Spanish-American War of 1812 as it became to be known was initiated by Lieutenant Colonel Winfield Scott and General William Henry Harrison, with Scott leading several thousand men out of New Orleans into West Florida, easily taking Pensacola on 15 June 1812, before moving east along the Gulf of Mexico. Harrison, leading a sizable contingent of soldiers as well would exit through Georgia, taking the town of Cowford[1] before engaging a minor force of Spanish soldiers (minutely supplemented by Native Americans) just north of the capital San Agustín. The Spanish were easily defeated, forcing Governor Juan José de Estrada to flee and leave the capital to its fate. By the end of June, just as news of the American declaration of war was reaching Europe, Both Scott and Harrison had cut across Florida largely undeterred, with Scott’s Army standing on the Withlacoochee River while Harrison’s Army stood along the St. John River near Lake George. Back in Washington D.C. President Madison received a surprise visit from British Envoy Foster, informing the President that Parliament had recently put an end to the impressment of American sailors [2], much to Madison’s delight. As the campaign in Florida was proving a huge success, Captain Isaac Hull of the USS Constitution lead a squadron of five frigates into Havana Harbor on the evening of 29 June 1812 and commenced bombing the Fortaleza de San Carlos de la Cabaña, the largest fortress in the Americas. Built after Britain’s capture of Havana in the Seven Years’ War, the fortress was built to ensure Spain would never lose Cuba again. Over the next several days the Americans would bombard La Cabaña relentlessly, but the Spanish would not submit. Even after reinforcements from Washington arrived, as well as two frigates, fresh from Tampico, from the nascent Mexican Navy, the NRM República and the NRM Anáhuac, the Spanish fortress would not surrender. In order to supplement the smaller fortress Castillo Del Morro, La Cabaña was built at the front of the canal connecting Havana Bay with the Caribbean Sea and as such any attempt by an enemy ship to enter the bay was nothing short of suicide. On 8 July American Marines landed east of Cojimar, northeast of Havana itself, and began to set up batteries to begin bombardment of La Cabaña from behind, in a similar move to the British half a century earlier. The siege of La Cabaña lasted well over a month, before the walls burst open to Americans on 12 August. The Spanish fought tooth and nail in order to keep the fortress, but to no avail. On 13 August the Spanish Commandant of the Fortress abandoned La Cabaña and renewed his defense at El Morro. The situation for the Spanish continued to deteriorate further, as El Morro was within direct line of sight from the frigates out at sea. With bombardment coming from both land and sea, the Spanish considered relocating once more to Havana proper, but doing so would inevitably open the city to shelling from the batteries located across the canal. This would be a repeat of the British bombardment of Havana in the Seven Years’ War, so in the end the Spanish stood down, surrendering Havana to the Americans on 15 August 1812. In the ensuing confusion of the American occupation, Governor Juan Ruiz de Apodaca and several generals fled the capital, heading eastwards. By mid-September the Americans controlled most of coastal Cuba west of Havana, as well as a corridor running from Cuba to the Gulf of Batabano, cutting the island in half. By this point both Scott and Harrison had met up near Marco Island in southwestern Florida, effectively controlling the entire peninsula save for a pocket of resistance in and around Charlotte Harbor.

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Battle of Havana, 1812

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Gulf of México and Caribbean Sea, September 1812

1812: Morelos and the Yucatán Campaign
At the start of 1812, Morelos and his army were beginning to move back north from Guatemala, deciding to launch an invasion of the Yucatán Peninsula. By mid-January Morelos was advancing north and west, easily taking Huehuetenango on 25 January and by the first week of February were engaging Royalists to the southeast of Comitán, in Chiapas. The battle was a large one, one that Morelos had not fought since December, but in the end the Insurgents emerged victorious. This was, in no small part, thanks to the newest recruits to Morelos’s Army: Native Americans, in particular Mayans from the Guatemalan highlands. By March Morelos had taken the capital at Chiapa [3] and the village of Villahermosa, in southern Veracruz [4]. Towards the third week of March Morelos was poised to reach the coast as he neared Ciudad del Carmen. The Spanish had kept a garrison in the city, but it had been stripped of some forces in order to protect Royalist strongholds farther north. After a six day siege the Royalists under José Joaquín de Arredondo gave in and Ciudad del Carmen fell to Morelos on Easter Sunday, 29 March 1812. Morelos and his army proceeded to march along the Gulf Coast, before being stopped by Arredondo’s Royalist army south of Campeche on 15 April. The Fort protecting Campeche’s southern flank, El Fuerte de San Miguel, had been heavily garrisoned several days prior in preparation to Morelos’s arrival. Morelos would begin to bombard the Fort in a siege that would last nearly three months. The siege would be remembered for its sanguinary nature, as large amounts of men on both sides would lose their lives. As April turned to May, and May turned to June, Morelos was becoming hard pressed to find a victory, as the Royalists were giving Morelos his toughest battle yet. On the morning of 21 June, however, everyone in and around Campeche, both Insurgents and Royalists, woke to the surprise of booming cannons from off the coast. A contingent of frigates lead by the USS Essex, sailing from Cuba, began to attack Spanish positions in and around the city. Later on in the day Morelos would be informed that the United States has declared war on Spain, and has pledged to offer military and economic support to the fledgling Mexican Republic. The American support from the sea, as well as the much needed morale boost from the arrival of the Americans was all that was needed to begin to make headway into the city. The Royalists attempted a last ditch effort to fight from the Fort San José, but by that time most of Campeche had fallen, and by 2 July Arredondo and his remaining Royalists had fled north towards Mérida, allowing Campeche to fall to the Insurgents, and giving them another port on the Gulf coast. Campeche would serve as a temporary headquarters for Morelos, as the battle for the city did serious damage to his army and thus would make time for a much needed reprieve. During this reprieve Morelos would add more troops to his ranks, namely Mayans from the countryside, Royalist defectors, and by personal decree from Morelos freed slaves. Morelos would also receive desperately needed guns, food and clothing from American Suppliers out of New Orleans. Feeling rejuvenated Morelos and his men would renew their offensive in August aiming to take the Intendancy’s capital at Mérida. On 14 August Morelos and an army of 14,000 men would disembark from Campeche, intent to remove the last vestige of Spanish control on the Yucatán Peninsula at Mérida. After marching for several days the Insurgents reach the outer walls of Mérida, and begin to engage Arredondo’s force of about 2,500 men. Although Arredondo commands a better equipped and better trained military, the sheer numbers he faces ultimately overwhelm his forces and he ultimately leaves Mérida to fall, and in the early morning hours of 21 August escapes into the darkness of the peninsula’s interior with several of his most trusted officers, among them a young cadet by the name of Santa Anna. Morelos then proceeds to arrest the Intendant of Mérida, Manuel Artazo y Torredemor and over 1,500 Royalist soldiers, before placing an Insurgent government in charge of the Intendancy and proceeding to move back down the Gulf Coast.

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New Spain as of late 1812
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[1] OTL Jacksonville, Florida
[2] Parliament did indeed put an end to Impressment in April of 1812.
[3] OTL modern-day Tuxtla Gutierrez, Chiapas.
[4] Formerly Veracruz, today a part of the State of Tabasco.

Comments? Questions? Critisism?
 
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