Renovation: An Eastern Roman Timeline

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Deleted member 67076

It's a bit early for gunpowder weapons to be of much use,especially in the 1300s.It's only useful for sieges but beyond that,don't bring it to a field battle.
Not now, but in the 1400s.
I don't think that the first practical firearms (Arquebuses) were introduced till sometime in the 16th century. Aside from seige-cannons the other thing that might be around are "Bombards" (The very first mortars basically).
These are still useful and the artillery will still help in fortifying lands.

If there is no war of two Peters then from what I recalled England shouldn't lose it's conquered territories in Aquitaine that was gained following the Treaty of Bretigney due to taxation in that area to fund English intervention.
Could you explain this in more depth?
 
Not now, but in the 1400s.

These are still useful and the artillery will still help in fortifying lands.


Could you explain this in more depth?
IIRC,Edward the Black Prince bankrupted himself in the process of intervening in the War of the Two Peters. When he returned to his principality in Aquitaine,he taxed the hell out of his subjects.This caused the local nobility to defect to the French crown or rebel openly.In the mean time,the French under Bertrand du Guesclin fully exploited the situation and recaptured almost all territory lost and even took over lands that were English before the war.
 
IIRC,Edward the Black Prince bankrupted himself in the process of intervening in the War of the Two Peters. When he returned to his principality in Aquitaine,he taxed the hell out of his subjects.This caused the local nobility to defect to the French crown or rebel openly.In the mean time,the French under Bertrand du Guesclin fully exploited the situation and recaptured almost all territory lost and even took over lands that were English before the war.

How much would Betrand du Guesclin's skills mitigate this additional English advantage?
 
How much would Betrand du Guesclin's skills mitigate this additional English advantage?

I am not qualified to speak on this subject as I have not studied the Hundred Years' War in depth,from what I've read however is that Guesclin specialised in Fabian tactics.I doubt he would have been successful if he did not have the support of the locals to some extent.The Black Prince turned his subjects overwhelmingly against him by taxing the hell out of them.
 
I am not qualified to speak on this subject as I have not studied the Hundred Years' War in depth,from what I've read however is that Guesclin specialised in Fabian tactics.I doubt he would have been successful if he did not have the support of the locals to some extent.The Black Prince turned his subjects overwhelmingly against him by taxing the hell out of them.

Ah, I see.
 

trajen777

Banned
Yep agreed upon gun powder -- after 1400 the Ottomans regrouped in Europe -- and then used Jann, as infantry to bring a combined arms approach --- so if Byz can keep them out and then gain gun weapons -- they should have good run to Mideast - Egypt over the next 2 centuries
 
Point taken; but that still would leave the question of the Ottomans being more cautious.

Very true. But think of it this way: even if the Ottomans are more careful and do not choose to fight Timur, by being vassals, their subordination will give the Byzantines even more previous decades to increase their strength. And who knows.... maybe they WILL choose to fight Timur...
 

Deleted member 67076

IIRC,Edward the Black Prince bankrupted himself in the process of intervening in the War of the Two Peters. When he returned to his principality in Aquitaine,he taxed the hell out of his subjects.This caused the local nobility to defect to the French crown or rebel openly.In the mean time,the French under Bertrand du Guesclin fully exploited the situation and recaptured almost all territory lost and even took over lands that were English before the war.
So the exact same won't happen, but I highly doubt England is going to sit by while Castile explodes in a free for all.

Yep agreed upon gun powder -- after 1400 the Ottomans regrouped in Europe -- and then used Jann, as infantry to bring a combined arms approach --- so if Byz can keep them out and then gain gun weapons -- they should have good run to Mideast - Egypt over the next 2 centuries
That would lead to some serious overextension I think.
Very true. But think of it this way: even if the Ottomans are more careful and do not choose to fight Timur, by being vassals, their subordination will give the Byzantines even more previous decades to increase their strength. And who knows.... maybe they WILL choose to fight Timur...
OTOH Timur often provoked and baited his opponents and made up excuses to attack them.

Gunpowder in 1400s would still be pretty crap.You won't have much use for it in field battles until about 1500.
Sieges and city/tower defenses would still greatly benefit. Its much harder to attack the place.
 
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Deleted member 67076

Any idea when the next part will be up?

Right now.

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The World around Romania: Anatolia​

Anatolia: the ancient heartland of the Roman Empire. Once the powerbase of the ancient state, it has been overrun by various principalities, each one claiming mandate over the others after the implosion of the Seljuq Sultanate. For with the receding of the Mongols comes the receding of whatever shred of authority the Seljuq Sultan had left.

For those wise enough, cunning enough and bold enough, this is the golden opportunity, a boundless frontier ripe for the taking. Who shall take the land of the Rumi? No one knows. There's a host of contenders that could do so. Start taking bets kids.

On paper, the house of Osman is in the strongest position to do so. It is by far the largest of the Rum’s successors, stretching from Ankara to Bursa. Its territory consists of the wealthiest zone of the Roman Empire in Asia. The administration is rapidly shifting from a confederation of tribes united by a strong leader and promises of plunder into a proper state with a modern bureaucracy. The Ottoman army is large, well equipped and fearsome. Its done well for itself in the short decades since its foundation. But it is far from an ideal situation. But... the reality on the ground is far from perfect. The transition of the Ottomans has severely alienated the beylik from any potential allies and the lack of Christians to plunder have cut off many would be Ghazi recruits. The other beyliks fear their larger neighbor, seeing the Ottoman appetite for territory as insatiable. The attack on the ailing Karesids has done nothing to assuage that fear. And with that fear comes conspiracy, and with conspiracy, coalitions.

Now while the Ottomans have driven themselves into diplomatic isolation, the Germiyanids have done just the opposite. Instead, they've focused almost entirely on diplomacy. Keeping good relations (as much as possible given everyone wants all of Anatolia for themselves) with all their immediate neighbors, the House of Germiyan has established itself as a powerful trade nexus in Anatolia and a bastion of stability. Said stability has done wonders for the state.

But lets give some background. This stability begins with the existing ties of marriage and alliance with Aydin and Saruhan. Which sets a precedent for peaceful relations amongst most of their neighbors. But the alliance with the two maritime emirates plays to their advantage:the beylik uses its stability to attract merchants to its roads, shuffling the bulk on inland trade into Germiyan territory. This is combined with policies of tolerance and integration, causing refugees (mostly Christian Greeks) to pour into Germiyan territory for safety and a fresh start, where the emir is quick to use them to his advantage. Anyone with ties to Rum has is put to work at the royal court. Now in the years that follow, this has led a mirror image (of sorts) of Romania start to form.

The burgeoning bureaucracy is fully staffed, gifting the state with far more administrative prowess than all its rivals. Combined with the other policies that state has enacted, a rising power is in the making. Its emphasis on diplomacy grant stability and allies. With that stability comes trade. Trade grants wealth. And with that wealth, prosperity. The tools needed to build an empire. But that wouldn't be an empire without a military. To that end, gifts of treasury and womenfolk tie the neighboring tribes and their fearsome cavalry into the system. While consolidation of militias and recruitment drives (with regular payments of coin and land) allow for a small yet well equipped standing army to form. A perverse corruption of the theme system. Eastern Rome would cringe.

But they would probably find Germiyan somewhat good news. You see, as the decades pass, the emirs begin to adopt more of their subjects mannerisms, their language and their culture, in turn losing much of their steppe and Turkic ways. Their territory, located just south of the Ottomans, right in the center of the old Komnenian heartland, is primarily Greek both in language, ethnicity (best word I could find) and religion. Initially the emirs had been conquerors, imposing Islam and the Turkic ways. But by the start of the 1370s, the conquerors are becoming the conquered.

Aydin is next on on the list. When we last the beylik, it had started to expand into the waves, establishing control over the duchy of the Isles, commonly known as the duchy of Naxos. The state was, and still remains a valued Roman ally (or lapdog, depending on who you ask). Aydin’s next few years can be summed up as aggressive expansion in everything. In the field of territory, Aydin has pushed its frontiers, south into Mentese and into (after an admittedly pyrrhic victory) Rhodes. In trade, things has similarly been ramped up. A series of trade quarters have been established in Muslim territories all around the Eastern Mediterranean. The volume of trade entering Smyrna has at least doubled as Smyrna becomes a the major trade nexus of goods entering Anatolian (This is in conjunction with their allies, the Germiyanids). In the military, the navy has become an armada fielded by ghazis and opportunists eager for plunder and payment. And finally, in piracy the Aydins have started expanding their operations outside the Aegean to all around the Mediterranean, much to the fury of, well everyone that’s not Romania (who just laughs at their anguish).

Karaman, our final contender in the Game for the Seljuq Throne, is by far the most... orthodox of the beyliks. Its the one beylik that has least diverged from its steppe roots, relying the most on the prestige of the emir and constant plunder in order to enforce the state’s will. Despite the quixotic nature of such a state, the success is undeniable. Karaman rules the bulk of the Central Anatolian plateau with an iron fist, binding the nomads to the emir’s authority and diverting their energies in the pursuit of replacing the Seljuq sultans as the next major dynasty. For now Karaman is on the upswing, conquering and raiding against all. However its lack of reform, both militarily and administratively is going to deeply hurt it in the future.

Moving on, we have Candar and Trebizond, the Pontic realms. Not much is happening within Candar, aside from increasing ties with Saruhan in an attempt to ward off against the Ottomans. But in Trebizond, its apogee is beginning under Alexios III. Balancing the trading prowess of Genoa with Romania (and later on) Adyin, Trebizond managed to wrest control of its commercial affairs. Alexios III had further increased the power of the state by crushing rebellious nobles and centralizing the state under his absolute power (something Eastern Rome was eager to help their client ruler with).

And that concludes the tour of Anatolia. There isn’t much to say about the other principalities that inhabited the plateau. They are, to be honest not important enough to be mentioned and to focus on them would be little more than filler. You just need to know the Mamluks have conquered Armenia minor, establishing a frontier at the Taurus Mountains and have begun to vassalize the easternmost beyliks.
 
It sounds like Germiyan is well onto its way into being reverse-assimilated (As in Hellenized followed by christianised;)) followed closely by Aydin and I can see those too as not so much being conquered as absorbed by a Byzantine-empirew on the rebound and once that happens the Ottomans are in deep-trouble;):p:D. All they they just need to do is absorb Candar and reconnect with trebizond and they've got the lions share of Asoia-minor and Karaman will be finished off shortly thereafter.
 

Deleted member 67076

Wait,so the Turks are getting Hellenized and Christianized?

Nope. That would imply all or most. What we have is a small principality ruling over a predominantly Greek area, operating on edicts of toleration and working hard to get whatever skilled labor into his administration, thereby saturating it with the conquered peoples, is getting partially assimilated.
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
Nope. That would imply all or most. What we have is a small principality ruling over a predominantly Greek area, operating on edicts of toleration and working hard to get whatever skilled labor into his administration, thereby saturating it with the conquered peoples, is getting partially assimilated.

It would be a lovely thing to see Germiyan become a cultural hub for Hello-Turks, or Greco-Turks in the future though.

I'm getting more concerned by your forewarning earlier in the story however.
 

Deleted member 67076

It would be a lovely thing to see Germiyan become a cultural hub for Hello-Turks, or Greco-Turks in the future though.

I'm getting more concerned by your forewarning earlier in the story however.
Don't worry too much for now. The emirate should have at least another 60 years.

So how long before the Ottomans get their well-deserved buggering by the Byzantines?

Well the attempt is just around the corner. Economic recovery would little over 30 years by the time we flash forward, and that means the military can be expanded. Whether or not the invasion will do well is another thing. Remember, there's been no large scale military reformation attempt since the Lascarids in the Empire of Nicaea.
 
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