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  #61  
Old February 23rd, 2012, 11:57 PM
MNP MNP is offline
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Thank you, kind sir. Your compliments mean so much. I'm glad you're enjoying it.

In the long run we may see the Bourbons continue in France--that's the plan, at least... but I'm not completely sure yet. But there will definately be no puritanism, if anything Charlotte's reign shall be very much proto-Hannoverianism. Leopold calmed her; Friedrich... well, we'll see. I hope he doesn't.
Well at least it will be interesting. I just prefer French-Republican ideals to British or American.
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Old February 24th, 2012, 02:24 AM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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Well at least it will be interesting. I just prefer French-Republican ideals to British or American.
Ditto. The Charter of 1815 was flawed and it says something when one King brings it all down in six years. Charles X was the main thing; get him out of the picture and we see his sons. Angoulême was conservative and Berri, too, but Berri had some popular support...

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Well the Restoration should stick if the Bourbons don't have their feet in their mouths enough.
Charles X primarily; Louis XVIII was very moderate and liberal in his dealings post-1815, even if he engaged in some shady acts like electoral gerrymandering... he was still see as a moderate figure. He hated the reactionaries and liberals alike, so it seems.
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Old February 24th, 2012, 01:12 PM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
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Ditto. The Charter of 1815 was flawed and it says something when one King brings it all down in six years. Charles X was the main thing; get him out of the picture and we see his sons. Angoulême was conservative and Berri, too, but Berri had some popular support...



Charles X primarily; Louis XVIII was very moderate and liberal in his dealings post-1815, even if he engaged in some shady acts like electoral gerrymandering... he was still see as a moderate figure. He hated the reactionaries and liberals alike, so it seems.
Indeed. The guy was old, fat, and pretty much a joke but he still kept the precarious balance because he remembered the Revolution and how much his house lost due to it.
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Old March 12th, 2012, 08:16 AM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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Princess Charlotte of Wales painted by George Dawe, in mid-1816; a portrait a la russe, the newlywed princess has her hand casually positioned to show her wedding ring, while Prussian Order of Louise adorns her breast. Although neither she nor Fritz knew at the stage of the painting, the portrait was actually completed in the early stages of her first pregnancy.

Chapter V. The Most Happy
“We raise at about six o’clock in the morning before we take a short talk in the gardens… we speak on a great deal of matters, and I find myself in awe in both his instruction and learning. At ten we have a light breakfast… Fritz typically busies himself with his own matters of study and we meet again for a light supper and go for a drive in the park before a later, more formal supper. After supping, we retire to the drawing room before finally to bed. It is all domestic and I cannot help but I am more than content… I am the most happy.”
— Entry from Princess Charlotte’s diary, detailing her regime of her honeymoon

Charlotte and Friedrich departed from Carlton the night after of their wedding (to the scandal of old Queen Charlotte) for Oatlands Palace, the Surrey residence of the Duke of York, but one which he had largely left to devices of his wife, Federica Charlotte, also of the House of Prussia. Happy to see her niece and nephew united in marriage, she was more than happy to accommodate them within their home. The trip was meant to last only a few short days, and privately both Charlotte and Friedrich were glad. An eccentric old lady who owned a myriad of dogs and let them run free, Charlotte complained that the air was unwholesome and filled with the smell of dogs and other unseemly animals. Yet despite the bad start, Charlotte’s honeymoon with her husband was quite idyllic, with Friedrich continuing his English lessons and largely forcing the pair to converse in French.

Charlotte’s companionship with Friedrich served her greatly, and was not a mésalliance as had been so greatly feared within the royal family. Friedrich soothed over Charlotte’s deficiencies, calmed her when she became too excited, and she brightened up his sometimes sullen disposition. After spending nearly a week at Oatlands, prince and princess soon departed for their home in London. Their arrival in London soon tossed the couple into the social whirl, being hosted by Queen Charlotte in her drawing room where some two thousand people attended. Charlotte was always keen to be seen about society, and Friedrich did not mind indulging her, knowing it would make her happy. The greatest surprise following the wedding was the settling of a country house upon the couple. In another flush of generosity, the ministers splurged and purchased Claremont House in Surrey, outright for them at the cost of £69,000, with the bill being passed in Parliament. “I bemoan all this money being spent on us,” Friedrich took to his diary to vent. “They’ll see me as nothing better but another royal leech.” Even Charlotte seemed somewhat cool to the idea—as a bride she imagined hosting grand salons in London and partaking in the social season. A country home was nice, but it wasn’t what Charlotte had in mind.

Friedrich bemoaned the purchase privately, believing their London residence to be more than enough. Despite his foreign background, he was quite aware that times were hard in England. A deep agricultural depression gripped the nation, and it was not uncommon even for Friedrich on his rides about town to see young beggars in the street attempting to eek by a living. To the Prince of Prussia, it seemed a tremendous waste to spend £69,000 on a country home, merely so that they had a place in the country. “One is well taken care here in England.” Friederich wrote bitterly to his uncle. “If you have money or you’re part of the royal family. I’m afraid otherwise you must fend on your own.”

The thoughts of Charlotte’s husband on his new country were far from wrong. The defeat of Napoleon at Waterloo had finally ended the Napoleonic Wars. An influx of young, former soldiers now found them demobilized and out of work. The eve of Friedrich’s arrival in the country had also seen the passage of the Importation Act, better known as the Corn Laws, a protective tariff to buffer the prices of British wheat against cheaper imports from the east. When combined with the poor laws and outdoor relief in forms such as the Speenhamland system, the general economic situation after the wars was not bright. Charlotte may have declared herself in her diary to be the most happy, but England seemed to be the most miserable.

Friedrich was finding himself more and more aware of the situations in England that Charlotte herself did not even know about. Not because she didn’t want to, of course, but merely because she had been raised quite sheltered and remained ignorant of the outside world. Times were hard in England and the extravagance of the Regency, most especially the debts of the family as a whole had rendered them all notoriously unpopular. Friedrich had no desire for Charlotte to ever inherit the unpopularity that her uncles and even some of her aunts had inherited. While Friedrich was lampooned in certain royal circles as a staid German who pinched every penny, the opposite was true. Like Charlotte, he was both a royal and had ideas of the way that they should live and what befitted their station; he was no miser, but merely economical.

It was when the pair returned from their honeymoon that Friedrich and his heiress presumptive wife set up court. It was his own royal touch that allowed them to maintain a regal household that befitted their station without falling prey to massive debts and the gaudy opulence that was all the rage during the period of the regency. They maintained a varied circle of friends, and Charlotte was free from the intrigue that had often plagued her childhood. Charlotte took great pride in her husband’s care for her, often signing her letters Charlotte of Prussia, and surprisingly abiding by her father’s command in terms servants liveries, having her servants wear those of Prussia, as if to say that she was prouder to be the wife of a Prussian Prince than to be the future Queen of England.

Yet Charlotte remained highly popular, and her husband was well liked too. They partook in the social season, having a subscription to the opera, and there seemed to be no hint of scandal attached to their name. Onlookers mentioned how much the prince had calmed her, and how in love they truly seemed to be. He was diligent in maintaining her, finding ways to cut costs without effecting their lifestyle—such as shuttering up Claremont when it was not it use, much to the chagrin of the MPs who had happily voted the funds for its purchase, as well as paying off debts Charlotte had incurred before her marriage. There was even talk of Friedrich being involved in economic matters that seemed much less proper and below in his stations—whispers of his involvement in the London mint making coins for Louis XVIII[1], the bond market, along with rumors unscrupulous deals with shady traders all floated freely about London, giving Friedrich his first taste of the negativity of the London social scene.

Yet Charlotte’s popularity was undaunted. A buoyant and vivacious young woman, she seemed happily matched with Friedrich, who calmed her but did not restrain her. They led a life that combined the joys of society, with lavish dinners and visits to the opera with a common domestic touch, such as the prompt settlement of bills, a rare Hannoverian trait. Life at Camelford differed from the court of the Prince Regent at Carlton, and Camelford became the haunt of the young set, with Charlotte entertaining notable liberals, and even royals, such as the Tsarevich Nicholas of Russia who commented that “The Princess Charlotte is like a rare diamond; I do not think Britain shall ever have another one like her.” Yet despite these two differing courts, Charlotte’s marriage did wonders for her relationship with her father. Although perhaps not overly friendly, they were at least cordial and the Prince Regent often paid extensive visits to his daughter and son-in-law, chattering away about the most inane things. Charlotte also continued to bond with the Duchess of Cumberland, who continued to be ostracized from the royal family because of Queen Charlotte’s hatred of her niece. Not surprisingly, Charlotte seldom visited Windsor, home of her grandmother and aging aunts following her marriage.

Charlotte and Friedrich were very settled into their routine, which carried them through the Yuletide of 1815 and into the early months of 1816. Despite the whispers of Friedrich’s (rumored) dubious business deals, the prince and princess were genuinely popular and had settled into a routine that involved a life in high society that was filled with the opera, balls, salons, and parties—all properly funded within their means, of course. Charlotte prided herself on Friedrich’s regal frugality, happy to boast that she had married “Perhaps the only prince in all of Europe who can actually manage his money!” This idyllic life was soon shattered in March of 1816 when Princess Charlotte collapsed at a soirée hosted by the Russian Ambassadress, Dorothea von Lieven. Friedrich initially worried over Charlotte’s condition, fearing the worse. He found himself immediately vindicated by the doctor’s pronouncement.

Charlotte of Wales, Princess of Prussia, was pregnant.

[1]For several months in 1815, 20 Franc coins (called Napoléons, or Louis’ after 1815) were minted in London for use in France, and primarily to pay for the British occupational forces in the north of France. There was a great outrage that these coins were inferior and by the end of 1815 no further coins were made in London.
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  #65  
Old March 14th, 2012, 05:25 AM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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Bump. Not a single comment? Too drab of a chapter?
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  #66  
Old March 14th, 2012, 05:49 AM
MNP MNP is offline
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I missed the update actually.

Not a lot to comment on. Most of it seems to describe the OTL situation, which is useful but doesn't leave us a lot to chew on except to assume the pregnancy will end up differently. I'm a bit interested in what's happening in Prussia as a consequence of the marriage. Will they live there at all?
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  #67  
Old March 14th, 2012, 06:30 AM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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I missed the update actually.

Not a lot to comment on. Most of it seems to describe the OTL situation, which is useful but doesn't leave us a lot to chew on except to assume the pregnancy will end up differently. I'm a bit interested in what's happening in Prussia as a consequence of the marriage. Will they live there at all?
Yeah, rather OTL except their social scene; Leopold was domestic and he and Charlotte spent most of their short married life at Claremont in country, domestic bliss. Here we have them with a court of their own in London and part of Regency society. Charlotte's first pregnancy involved a collapse at the opera and was a miscarriage. Here it was at a soirée, and is just the beginning of her pregnancy (well, that they know: like poor Victoria, she conceived not long after her marriage, probably c. December 1815). Friedrich only had two kids IOTL though, so I don't think Charlotte will have to worry of constant pregnancy. It depends on how good of a "match" they are.

As for Prussia, the King of Prussia is quite pleased with the marriage and hoping he may benefit diplomatically from it. Friedrich had some properties IOTL in Germany, mostly due his military career; here he may still have Schonhausen Palace as Friedrich grew up there in his youth and it wasn't used by the reigning Hohenzollerns. I can see them visiting, but not sure about living there. Friedrich's minor in the Prussian succession and Charlotte didn't want to leave England. I can imagine them taking a grand tour, or perhaps some scandal forcing them to live abroad. Maybe in the 1820s, George IV gets fed up with her popularity and maybe meddling (perhaps she supports her mother over him), and he makes her leave the country?
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Old March 14th, 2012, 07:28 AM
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Yeah, rather OTL except their social scene; Leopold was domestic and he and Charlotte spent most of their short married life at Claremont in country, domestic bliss. Here we have them with a court of their own in London and part of Regency society. Charlotte's first pregnancy involved a collapse at the opera and was a miscarriage. Here it was at a soirée, and is just the beginning of her pregnancy (well, that they know: like poor Victoria, she conceived not long after her marriage, probably c. December 1815). Friedrich only had two kids IOTL though, so I don't think Charlotte will have to worry of constant pregnancy. It depends on how good of a "match" they are.

As for Prussia, the King of Prussia is quite pleased with the marriage and hoping he may benefit diplomatically from it. Friedrich had some properties IOTL in Germany, mostly due his military career; here he may still have Schonhausen Palace as Friedrich grew up there in his youth and it wasn't used by the reigning Hohenzollerns. I can see them visiting, but not sure about living there. Friedrich's minor in the Prussian succession and Charlotte didn't want to leave England. I can imagine them taking a grand tour, or perhaps some scandal forcing them to live abroad. Maybe in the 1820s, George IV gets fed up with her popularity and maybe meddling (perhaps she supports her mother over him), and he makes her leave the country?
Sorry. Yes I meant just for a visit. Since Charlotte is the heir, I doubt they'd actually live in a foreign country. You do bring up some interesting ideas about how to get them to Prussia.

A limited number of kids and embarrassment at country opulence seem like a good recipe to keep a Regency-esque social scene full of energy. Good work.
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  #69  
Old March 14th, 2012, 08:26 AM
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I'm wondering if the moral tone of Britain will take the same path as OTL. Will humanities and gifted amateurism be favoured over sciences and professionalism?
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Old March 14th, 2012, 08:42 AM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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I'm wondering if the moral tone of Britain will take the same path as OTL. Will humanities and gifted amateurism be favoured over sciences and professionalism?
We'll definitely see no Victorian Era and no Victorian Morality. Victoria and Albert were priggish and set the tone for a monarchy the middle classes could admire. Charlotte and Friedrich are popular but will form a part of the young set of the Regency Ton. They socialize, and at least throughout the 1820s, Camelford will form a secondary court of sorts for those of Charlotte's generation.

The Caroline Age IMO will be an extension of the Regency period, but without it's gross excesses. It will certainly be opulent but not vulgar; Charlotte will be an entertaining Queen but not deeply indebted, and Friedrich shall be a patron of the arts and sciences but not a prig disgusted by the excesses that occurred under the reign of George IV.

Albert made a fuss at his wedding that Victoria's maids should all be virgins and the daughters of women who had not had tarnished reputations during the Regency and late Georgian period. This, obviously, was impossible. We'll see nothing like this during Charlotte's time. Friedrich had an interest in sciences so they may not suffer, we may see the rise of future statesmen based on those in attendance of the salons of Charlotte during the 1820s; not just aristocrats, but smart men, poets, ect, and of course probably many leaning Whigs. Friedrich and Charlotte's home will become a great Whiggish bastion during the great debates over Catholic emancipation and the Reform Acts.

Charlotte's reign shall see the Georgian era continue in it's opulence and frivolity, but less vulgar and a little more toned down.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 02:28 PM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
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With the Caroline Era being one of moderated opulence, how would the middle and working classes regard the monarchy, I wonder?
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Old March 14th, 2012, 03:15 PM
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With the Caroline Era being one of moderated opulence, how would the middle and working classes regard the monarchy, I wonder?
Probably the lower classes will be less friendly to a monarchy that they see as wasting money in parties and other uppper class good life ways rather than moderation ; so perhaps any equivalent to OTL chartism might see more popular support than OTL. (this is all a hypothesis)

BTW, DrakeRlugia, having terribly enjoyed Prince of Peace, I'm loving this timeline too.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 03:36 PM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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With the Caroline Era being one of moderated opulence, how would the middle and working classes regard the monarchy, I wonder?
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Probably the lower classes will be less friendly to a monarchy that they see as wasting money in parties and other uppper class good life ways rather than moderation ; so perhaps any equivalent to OTL chartism might see more popular support than OTL. (this is all a hypothesis)

BTW, DrakeRlugia, having terribly enjoyed Prince of Peace, I'm loving this timeline too.
As Nanwe said, radical politics such as Chartism will definitely gain ground amongst the working class. Of course, even Victoria's monarchy was not really one for the working classes and her exclusion at Albert's death caused the brief rise of Republicanism. You may see things more radicalized amongst them. As things will not tune down. George IV was followed by William IV, who was a simple man and simplified court protocol or ignored it. That won't happen here -- you'll see the typical court opulence continue. Toned down of course, but not as much as William IV did so.

As for the Middle Classes, Charlotte is Whiggish so it may be enough to appease them, when the Reform Act or it's similar form passes. Of course, the monarchy isn't going to be something they relate with really as they could IOTL. Victoria and Albert, even as the royal family, seemed like an ordinary family to the growing middle classes and they could see how much they were like them, instead of distant royals. I think in this situation they'll seem more distant and different. Charlotte will probably be quite hands-off with her children, as 19th century mothers often were--not to say she'll be an ignoring mother, but she won't be smothering like Victoria, and Governesses and other people will handle the day to day rearing.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 03:52 PM
MNP MNP is offline
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....possibly some sort of British 1848? That would be rather exciting.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 04:06 PM
DrakeRlugia DrakeRlugia is offline
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....possibly some sort of British 1848? That would be rather exciting.
I think quite possibly, since we'll have Charlotte coming to the throne as a grown woman, not as a eighteen year old. Victoria was influenced by Melbourne who sort of gave her an idea what her prerogatives were as Queen when they were really quite more extensive. He's the one who really gave her the whole "advise, warn, and be consulted" speel. One British writer wrote that the Queen really had more powers than that, and a constitutional historian would later say: "She could disband the army, (by law she cannot engage more than a certain number of men, but she is not obliged to engage any men at all); she could dismiss all the officers, from the General's Commander in Chief downwards; she could sell off our ships of war and naval stores. She could make every citizen in the United Kingdom, male or female, a peer. She could make every parish in the country a "university"; She could dismiss most civil servants; she could pardon all offenders. In a word, the Queen could, by prerogative, upset all the actions of civil government by disbanding our forces, whether land or sea, and leave us defenseless against foreign forces."

It's a bit of an exaggeration, but Melbourne coached Victoria on what she could do in a significant way, after George IV and William IV's meddling. Charlotte is going to become Queen as a grown woman, and during her time as heiress she'll certainly learn more of politics from her husband, who definitely has a German view on things. He doesn't get constitutional government, and only knows of the petty despotism of Germany. We won't see anything like a silly girl bringing down the government over ladies of the bedchamber like Victoria, but Charlotte could most definitely misstep and cause a crisis. We may quite likely see some unrest in '48.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 07:22 PM
Nanwe Nanwe is online now
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....possibly some sort of British 1848? That would be rather exciting.
Damn, I was ninja'd, but yeah I was about to ask if with an alienate dmiddle classses, they woudl serve as leaders of an angry proletariat, like in 1848 revolutions

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`It's a bit of an exaggeration, but Melbourne coached Victoria on what she could do in a significant way, after George IV and William IV's meddling. Charlotte is going to become Queen as a grown woman, and during her time as heiress she'll certainly learn more of politics from her husband, who definitely has a German view on things. He doesn't get constitutional government, and only knows of the petty despotism of Germany. We won't see anything like a silly girl bringing down the government over ladies of the bedchamber like Victoria, but Charlotte could most definitely misstep and cause a crisis. We may quite likely see some unrest in '48.
So as the Moanrchy's role will be strenghthened ITTL, will the Tories want to reduce the power of a Whig-leaning Queen, and most importantly, it'll significantly alter the Westminster system. I wonder if TTL Tories will support political reforms if the Queen's prerrogatives are checked, while the Whigs will be much more in favour of the Queen's meddling, because obviously it'll benefit their political goals.
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Old March 14th, 2012, 07:51 PM
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There is an article about Princess Charlotte in The Guardian today in connection with the exhibition on her life and death at the Royal Pavilion, Brighton: http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/20...cess-charlotte. The heading for the article is "Princess Charlotte - the Diana of the Hanoverians".
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Old March 15th, 2012, 12:39 AM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
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1848 affecting Britain more than OTL would be interesting...

but for an interesting butterfly, why not have 1830 be bigger in scope?
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Old March 15th, 2012, 12:56 AM
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1848 affecting Britain more than OTL would be interesting...

but for an interesting butterfly, why not have 1830 be bigger in scope?
... British July Monarchy?
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Old March 15th, 2012, 01:01 AM
SavoyTruffle SavoyTruffle is offline
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... British July Monarchy?
I admit "King of the British" sounds catchier than "King/Queen of Great Britain and Ireland".
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