Europe's Hope & Britain's Glory - A Georgian Alternate History

[DrakeRlugia]

Subscribed. My inbox is getting crowded, but subscribed anyway.

It'll be interesting to see what you do with Charlotte and family — I have a few little plans for them in my own TL.

I know the biggest change will be in that a-typical perfect Victorian family. Charlotte is young and differs from her Tory uncles, but in some aspects, she's really a lot like them. If anything, I still see a love for frivolity; the Regency period will die, but the Georgian period will not totally with it.

The British court will also be different. William IV was a pretty basic man, hated protocol, failed to follow the most basic courtly behaviors, and simplified how the royal palaces worke, firing the French chefs as well as George IV's German band that had cost some 18,000 pounds.

So, Charlotte will provide that typical Whiggish hope that many expected would sweep away the old Tory establishment, but I wonder if her monarchy will be a monarchy for the middle classes the way Victoria's was. For one thing, I remember Charlotte complained during her pregnancy that she hated being so fat. Botched medicine aside, I can see her totally hating family life, and unfortunately perpetuating the indirect childhood that she as well as her own father had been subjected too. Almost all the Hannoverian heirs hated their fathers... I just hope it isn't the case with Charlotte and hers.

 

[Perky50]

A very interesting story .... subscribed.

 

[Velasco]

Great update.

Regarding her marriage, is the overwhelming opinion that she should marry abroad? Why not consider a native King(-consort)?

 

[DrakeRlugia]

Great update.

Regarding her marriage, is the overwhelming opinion that she should marry abroad? Why not consider a native King(-consort)?

For George IV? Yes. To him, her position as heiress is unimportant. To her, she's like any other royal princess. He expected her to spend at least half the year abroad and was willing to fund her lavishly, and to have her eldest son raised in England and be heir to the crown in her place. To be honest, it was really because of George IV's jealously. He was terribly, terribly jealous of Charlotte's popularity with the people, while he was reviled. He had it in his mind that she was conspiring with the Whigs and out to get him. He wanted her out of the country so she wouldn't steal his thunder. Literally. He really was that bad of a parent.

Charlotte though, didn't want to go abroad. She was very connected to her position as future queen despite her own faults. She'd marry a foreign prince, but she wanted to stay in England, essentially. AFAIK, there wasn't any talk of a Prince or King consort. 18th century Englishmen were notoriously xenophobic and would probably be prejudiced against the notion. However, they were prejudiced against a reigning Queen too, since the last one in living memory was Anne.

 

[Emperor of Scandinavia]

Would you happen to be using Becoming Queen Victoria The Tragic Death of Princess Charlotte and the Unexpected Rise of Britain's Greatest Monarch by Kate Williams as a source?

It is a great book, and you should pick it up if you do not already have it.

Wishing you well, his majesty,
The Scandinavian Emperor

 

[DrakeRlugia]

Would you happen to be using Becoming Queen Victoria The Tragic Death of Princess Charlotte and the Unexpected Rise of Britain's Greatest Monarch by Kate Williams as a source?

It is a great book, and you should pick it up if you do not already have it.

Wishing you well, his majesty,
The Scandinavian Emperor

I am, actually! I wish it had more information regarding Charlotte herself, but I've got some other dated sources to help with that. This book is good for on the go and also covers Charlotte's immediate family as well as late Georgian England very well to set the scene.

After I started reading it, I knew I needed to get work on this TL which I'd be planning for some time.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Almost all the Hannoverian heirs hated their fathers... I just hope it isn't the case with Charlotte and hers.

Ja. Talk about generations of dysfunctional families!

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Regarding her marriage, is the overwhelming opinion that she should marry abroad? Why not consider a native King(-consort)?

Partly because the Hannoverians were continental. A Prince only married a prince, basically. For most of a 1000 years, the Portuguese royal family married ONLY princes or reigning nobility (a reigning count back around 1300, and then dukes and above). For one example that I researched.

To protect your noble status in Germany, in particular, you had to marry within your social rank. "Seize quartiers" is the English/French term - basically every ancestor of your spouse for 4 generations back (2^4=16) had to be of the appropriate class (e.g. Hochadel or Niederadel or royalty) for your family to maintain their rank. As I understand it.

If she married a local British noble, she'd lose Hannover. Of course, she'd lose Hannover, anyway, as she was a woman and Salic law applied there, so I suppose that it would have been as good a time as any to chuck the old rule book.

OTOH, her dad wouldn't agree to that, no way, no how.

 

[Nivek]

And true, re: Bismarck; but at this point in time (1814), he's still just a twinkle in his father's eye. And given the period, it's not unlikely he might be still born or die young... or perhaps even be born Wilhelmine (!) von Bismarck! but Germany will definately have some changes. Prussia is the second power after Austria in the Confederation, but Hannover isn't totally devoid. She had some good deposits of coal and iron IIRC, and Ernst spearheaded his own currency union, the Steuerverein in 1834 to counterbalance the Zolleverein, although it was shortlived and broke down by 1841.

Nah, Bismarck is Like Theodore Roosvelt... Inmune to close butterfly, not even Decades of Darkness was able to Butterfly away him(and those take away Teddy ) . We either have a more liberal, the same or more reactionary Bismarck.. no more no less.

(A Female Bismarck...The Idea is so Mad.. so mad than even he ca become the consort of the current hohenzollern)

 

[SavoyTruffle]

I know the biggest change will be in that a-typical perfect Victorian family. Charlotte is young and differs from her Tory uncles, but in some aspects, she's really a lot like them. If anything, I still see a love for frivolity; the Regency period will die, but the Georgian period will not totally with it.

The British court will also be different. William IV was a pretty basic man, hated protocol, failed to follow the most basic courtly behaviors, and simplified how the royal palaces worke, firing the French chefs as well as George IV's German band that had cost some 18,000 pounds.

So, Charlotte will provide that typical Whiggish hope that many expected would sweep away the old Tory establishment, but I wonder if her monarchy will be a monarchy for the middle classes the way Victoria's was. For one thing, I remember Charlotte complained during her pregnancy that she hated being so fat. Botched medicine aside, I can see her totally hating family life, and unfortunately perpetuating the indirect childhood that she as well as her own father had been subjected too. Almost all the Hannoverian heirs hated their fathers... I just hope it isn't the case with Charlotte and hers.

I think Vicky escaped that because her father died when she was young, but she didn't really get along with her mom either.

Nah, Bismarck is Like Theodore Roosvelt... Inmune to close butterfly, not even Decades of Darkness was able to Butterfly away him(and those take away Teddy ) . We either have a more liberal, the same or more reactionary Bismarck.. no more no less.

(A Female Bismarck...The Idea is so Mad.. so mad than even he ca become the consort of the current hohenzollern)

Not possible. The Bismarcks aren't a family that once ruled an Imperial state.

 

[Velasco]

Partly because the Hannoverians were continental. A Prince only married a prince, basically. For most of a 1000 years, the Portuguese royal family married ONLY princes or reigning nobility (a reigning count back around 1300, and then dukes and above). For one example that I researched.

To protect your noble status in Germany, in particular, you had to marry within your social rank. "Seize quartiers" is the English/French term - basically every ancestor of your spouse for 4 generations back (2^4=16) had to be of the appropriate class (e.g. Hochadel or Niederadel or royalty) for your family to maintain their rank. As I understand it.

If she married a local British noble, she'd lose Hannover. Of course, she'd lose Hannover, anyway, as she was a woman and Salic law applied there, so I suppose that it would have been as good a time as any to chuck the old rule book.

OTOH, her dad wouldn't agree to that, no way, no how.

Aaaah, interesting. Makes for a contrast with how English Kings were free to marry relatively low-born women: cf. Hawise of Gloucester, Elizabeth Woodville, Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour, Anne Hyde, etc. As I imagined (the contintenal nobility) - I was thinking more along the lines of why didn't people push for her to marry a cousin (William of Gloucester) or one of her younger uncles, instead of going after foreigner husbands, considering how xenophobic the English could be.

Also, was there not interest in maintaining the personal union with Hanover?

 

[Darth_Kiryan]

Wow. this is just...wow!

 

[DrakeRlugia]

Aaaah, interesting. Makes for a contrast with how English Kings were free to marry relatively low-born women: cf. Hawise of Gloucester, Elizabeth Woodville, Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour, Anne Hyde, etc. As I imagined (the contintenal nobility) - I was thinking more along the lines of why didn't people push for her to marry a cousin (William of Gloucester) or one of her younger uncles, instead of going after foreigner husbands, considering how xenophobic the English could be.

Also, was there not interest in maintaining the personal union with Hanover?

Charlotte used Gloucester against Orange. She didn't like him and merely use him to make George IV mad, flirting with him and using him against the Dutchman. Still, he wasn't an unpopular match. Charlotte's uncles pushed her against her cousins--including illegitimate ones! If I recall, Augustus d'Este, Sussex's son flirted with her awfully. Charlotte had to write to Sussex to make him stop.

As Hannover; no King had been there for 130 years. George III and IV were English as can be, as were his sons. only Cumberland wanted the crown; but maybe because a crown is a crown and he still had a chance for Britain if Victoria died.

 

[DrakeRlugia]

Wow. this is just...wow!

Wow as this good or wow as in 'Wow, this is trash!'

 

[Velasco]

Charlotte used Gloucester against Orange. She didn't like him and merely use him to make George IV mad, flirting with him and using him against the Dutchman. Still, he wasn't an unpopular match. Charlotte's uncles pushed her against her cousins--including illegitimate ones! If I recall, Augustus d'Este, Sussex's son flirted with her awfully. Charlotte had to write to Sussex to make him stop.

As Hannover; no King had been there for 130 years. George III and IV were English as can be, as were his sons. only Cumberland wanted the crown; but maybe because a crown is a crown and he still had a chance for Britain if Victoria died.

Interesting. And I take it a bastard/"morganatic" cousin would be completely out of the question?

Do you have sources on what the income from Hanover was like at this point? I suspect it may have brought more problems than it brought positive ($$) hence nobody going to great lengths to marry Charlotte to Cumberland or some other male heir.

 

[DrakeRlugia]

Interesting. And I take it a bastard/"morganatic" cousin would be completely out of the question?

Do you have sources on what the income from Hanover was like at this point? I suspect it may have brought more problems than it brought positive ($$) hence nobody going to great lengths to marry Charlotte to Cumberland or some other male heir.

Oh yes. But that doesn't mean they weren't encouraged.

Not a clue... But it was a sink from the start. I know George II used Irish grants to close gaps in the budget. Charlotte would've never went with Cumberland. She believe the rumors about him (murder, incest, ect.) she wouldn't be alone in a room with him. I think her marriage was considered unimportant because of all George III's sons. The Hannoverians were not going to die out, an the British would still have a line of rulers with Hannoverians blood.

 

[DrakeRlugia]

Nah, Bismarck is Like Theodore Roosvelt... Inmune to close butterfly, not even Decades of Darkness was able to Butterfly away him(and those take away Teddy ) . We either have a more liberal, the same or more reactionary Bismarck.. no more no less.

(A Female Bismarck...The Idea is so Mad.. so mad than even he ca become the consort of the current hohenzollern)

Well, I believe in a gradual butterfly effect. From the point of the POD, changes move out gradually. Now, Prussia isn't too far from England, and of course the POD is relatively minor so it's not going to have a huge effect right away (certain people will still marry the same spouses, ect.) but I find childbirth one of the things that is so easily impacted by any the smallest change. So many things can happen in timing that can create a totally different person. Including their gender.

It was a bit of a joke. But I did have an idea as Frau von Bismarck as Ambassadress to England, keeping a diary on the social scene while her husband is busy with his duties as ambassador. It would be quite neat, seeing her as a sort of German Princess von Lieven; a patroness at Almack's, cultivating friendships with foreign diplomats, charming English ministers, and causing the King of Prussia to quip "It is a pity Madame Bismarck wears skirts... she could've made an excellent diplomat."

Cue the irony.

 

[MNP]

I usually find British-themed TLs boring unless they are a Brit-screw but that is some fine writing. Continue please.

 

[DrakeRlugia]

I usually find British-themed TLs boring unless they are a Brit-screw but that is some fine writing. Continue please.

Thank you. I am trying to go for slightly comical, something you might see written in Regency plates and papers who openly mocked their Hannoverian Royalty. I also find it much more personal, as it's connected to Charlotte.

19th century Britain is quite boring, given it's status as a super power; I agree. But this is an oft suggested POD that has never been properly explored. So hopefully I can twist Britain's situation where it at least looks... interesting.

 

[DrakeRlugia]

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Prinz Friedrich von Preußen; portrait style a la russe, “I send you this little picture for I know how much you love Russian uniforms! But it is my good fortune that I know you love this Prussian even more! But I must admit, mon chéri, I do not know if I shall ever look dashing in British Red.” Sent to Charlotte during their courtship, c. 1815
​

Chapter III. Scandal and Isolation

“My whole heart, soul & mind are much too interested & bent upon it for not me to be sencible [sic] I should sink under anything that was adverse. I am tired, worn out in mind & body, & going to throw myself on my bed, & try if I can & forget the miseries of my mind & heart in a happy temporary forfetfulness of all around me.”
— Excerpt from Charotte’s Diary during her trip at Weymouth

If Prince George of Wales had hoped that his daughter’s flight to Connaught Place would be kept in dignified silence to the general public, he was gravely mistaken. The buzz surrounding Princess Caroline’s home could not be ignored, and when the story of Charlotte’s flight leaked, the press went wild and was soon the talk of the whole of London. The Prince Regent was humiliated, and even took to sending his most trustworthy servants to the homes of prominent newsmen. Laden with tiny velvet purses with varying amounts of guineas, they brought pleading stories from the prince himself that they cease writing about the scandal and impropriety that his daughter had brought upon his house. With great laughter and derision, these serving men were promptly turned away, purses in hand.

“All are against the Prince,” Mr. Brougham, the princesses’ erstwhile ally wrote in his journal. Indeed, the entire matter became great fodder for Whigs, and opposition press stepped up their lampooning of the Prince Regent, with every action of his under great scrutiny, from his latest gaffes to his general buffoonery, one paper writing that the Prince Regent was considering a new round of renovations at Carlton House as “HHA—that is, His Highness’ Arse can no longer fit through the halls, at least, not together with the Machioness of Hertford. Having probably being nearly crushed to death by his girth, we think the renovation is very least that the P. can do to give Lady Hertford some relief—being his mistress most definitely is no small task!”

The press was virile in their attacks against the Prince; almost all of the Whiggish opposition was united against the supposed tyranny of the Prince against his daughter. Charlotte, meanwhile, had returned to Warwick. Despite an emotional reunion with her father, his previous commands stood—she was to be conveyed to Cranborne Lodge, where she would be confined. If she was out of sight, all the better. Charlotte was allowed to maintain her attendants, yet they remained under strict orders to keep an eye on her. Charlotte would be confined until she agreed to marry the Dutchman. Even if she had claimed that threats would never sway her, the Prince Regent was intent that he could wear her down. She was only a girl, after all—a girl whom he gravely misunderstood. Despite being surrounded by new servants, including her old strict governess, a note was smuggled from the princess to her favorite uncle, the Duke of Sussex, and a new row broke out.

Sussex, always a loyal supporter of his niece, took to the House of Lords. Castigating the reigning Tory Prime Minister, Earl Liverpool, Sussex immediately launched a barrage of questions. Was Charlotte truly confined? If not, would she be free to come and go as she pleased? Would she be allowed to take the waters at the seaside, as her doctors had recommended? Most importantly, Sussex railed, Charlotte was now eighteen. In strong words, Sussex demanded of Liverpool that “Now that Her Highness has attained her majority, does the present government have plans to grant her a separate establishment? It is only fitting after all, as she is our heiress apparent; she should no longer beholden to the Prince Regent’s purse strings; £13,000 per annum is perfectly suitable for royal princesses such as my sisters, but Her Highness is no mere princess. She is a future Queen of England; be mindful that one day you may be answerable to her for your miserliness.”

Liverpool chose to evade the questions, diplomatically stating that it was not his business to mettle in the affairs of the royal house; he stated it was much more important to focus on matters such as the national debt and the Congress of Vienna. Sussex boasted and felt he had won—until summoned to Carlton House where the Prince Regent broke into one of his typical tirades. The two brothers fell out and would never speak again.

Sussex’s entreaties had not freed Charlotte. She remained confined at Cranborne, where she received a visit from another of her numerous uncles—the Duke of York. York was quite close to the Prince Regent, and quite naturally came bearing entreaties that Charlotte consider the Prince of Orange. She was adamant in her refusal; her mind was still set despite having not communicated with Friedrich in months, and would not be swayed. York, having been accompanied by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, wished to explain Charlotte’s situation to her more clearly. Her mood had swelled over Sussex’s grand speech, and the Prince of Wales was eager to deflate Charlotte’s ego. York descanted upon her, stating that she was not heiress apparent, but rather only heiress presumative; she could never truly be the heiress apparent, as a birth of a son to the Prince of Wales would immediately reduce her position to that of a simple princess. The Chancellor piqued Charlotte further with the precedent of the Princess Mary, the daughter of James II, in hopes to point out a view that she would not be the first English heiress to marry a foreign prince and reside abroad.

Charlotte was not amused, and York left without a clear answer. Yet for all the hints and pressures on all sides for Charlotte to take Prince Willem of Orange of her husband, she would not bend. But ultimately, the situation at Cranborne was not as oppressive as Charlotte had feared. In fact, she found herself becoming quite charmed by the little lodging. It was in July of 1814 that she finally received a visit from the Prince of Wales. The meeting with her father was amicable enough, yet he brought her news regarding her mother, the Princess Caroline. Tired and wearied of Britain, she was planning to go abroad for an extended stay on the continent. Charlotte was naturally upset by the news—her father’s restrictions from her birth meant that she had seen her rarely, but she was still her mother… she had also been considerably kinder and supportive of her choices as she grew older. Charlotte knew that could not sway her mother, a free spirit, to stay behind, but she still couldn’t help but feel a little spurned with her mother deciding to leave with not so much as a thought to it. Charlotte took to her journal to vent her feelings: “For God knows how long, or what events may occur before we meet again…” Charlotte would not see her again for several years, although the two would maintain a correspondence through letters on a wide variety of subjects.

The Princess of Wales herself wrote that “Great and powerful as she may be, I hope she does not tyrannize over anyone because they have good fortune to please her.” Princess Caroline saw her daughter as a future queen; the Prince Regent did not see the same way. Not wishing to face his mortality, he thought fit that Charlotte should be treated as a minor princess, almost agreeing that even his sisters outranked her. The Royal Family was almost wholly in agreement. Charlotte should not be trained for political matters, but set up for a suitable marriage. Indeed, the Princess Mary told Charlotte that “I see no comfort for you in this world unless you marry.” The spinster made it clear that the family would be happy to see her settled, and that “All the family should be glad if there was anything to do.” Charlotte mentioned Friedrich of Prussia before falling into a deep blush; causing the Princess Mary to gabble that he was indeed quite good-looking. Charlotte was immediately jealous, thinking that her aunt was after him. She was the family beauty after all, and at thirty-seven had maybe not given up hope of marriage. Like others in her family, jealously only aroused Charlotte’s passion towards her Prussian and she seemed more cemented than ever to take him as her husband.

As summer frittered away, Charlotte begged her father to allow her to go seaside. He remained adamant that she remain in Britain—it was not until August that he finally relented and allowed Charlotte to take her cure. Wanting to go to Brighton, the Prince of Wales instead ordered she go to Weymouth, wanting to keep fashionable Brighton to himself. The whole ordeal was a mess, with the Prince hoping to send Charlotte off in secret so that the public would have no chance to know. His petty tyranny even continued in the matter of funds; Charlotte discovered that none of her household had any funds and she had not yet received her allowance either. She was falling deeper into debt. £2,000 alone was owed on jewels. Like a true Hannoverian, Charlotte had taken to shopping to indulge her feelings of sadness. The party was only finally allowed to leave when the queen supplied the necessary funds. Yet when old Queen Charlotte learned of her granddaughters’ debts, she was greatly scandalized at both Charlotte’s spending and her father’s refusal to properly finance her. The queen stated that no longer would she mediate between daughter and father. The Prince Regent bemoaned this. “Then I shall be tormented morning, noon, and night with letters and questions!”

Weymouth was not fashionable like Brighton, but it suited Charlotte’s needs. She found herself hailed on the way there, crowds shouting her praises. Her arrival saw a great illumination: All Hail Princess Charlotte, Europe’s Hope & Britain’s Glory! Charlotte was naturally pleased. She spent her time in Weymouth to her great delight, exploring local attractions and even shopping for smuggled French silks. From late September she was taking a course of heated seawater baths. Charlotte remained entranced by Friedrich, although she had not seen him in many months and their communications had been restricted. The only piece of her news she received was that her dear Prussian had formed another attachment—to the Princess Louise of Anhalt-Bernburg. Charlotte was dejected. “I should have known that once he left Britain, where I am, that he would soon be hounded by all the Princesses of Germany. After all, there are so many there, and only one of me here!” But Charlotte soon learned that the story had been false, perhaps planted by the Prince Regent himself. Prince Friedrich had indeed met with the said Princess of Anhalt, but had supposedly spurned her, citing other interests elsewhere. Charlotte was ecstatic. Over the Christmas supper of 1814, both Charlotte and her father patched up their differences. He was still settled on the Prince of Orange, but Charlotte more than ever was set upon Prince Fridrich of Prussia.