Wrapped In Flames

DAv

A damn shame to hear what happened. Hopefully you'll get something sorted as this was a really well done timeline. No rush on it though, take your time and we'll be behind your decision.
 
RMcD94

RMcD94

EnglishCanuck said:
Interlude I


Cartier thought a moment before he replied, not in the least because his seat was jostled by a sudden bump as the carriage struck a rut in the cobblestone streets. He was never so sure about the overconfidence some Englishmen had about a fight with the Americans. The same type of overconfidence had carried him into the disastrous rebellion in 1839, and he remembered well how much that overconfidence had cost. He folded his gloved hands on top of one another before speaking again.

“How can we be sure though that the Americans will not come to their senses and simply fight Great Britain? She is their natural enemy, and a war could well reconcile the two. It almost did in 1859.”

“Well two great nations don’t go to war over a pig is how I heard it.” John A. chuckled.

“And what about the blood of an Englishman?” Cartier replied raising an eyebrow. MacDonald leaned over and spat out the window.

“There’s what I think of that! They killed a British subject as good as if they’d just murdered him. They had no right to seize that vessel, not a one. Yet they did it anyways. Britain must defend her honor, no one pushes the Empire without getting a shove back.”

“Speaking of such, what did you think of Dorion today?”

“Dorion and his pack of monkeys were doing what they always do, screeching for Reform while threatening to topple the government. I can expect nothing less from that radical. He detests me for the fact that I’m English, and he wants to bring you down since you betrayed the ideas of his precious revolution.”
Click to expand...

If he has a Glasgow accent how is he English? He spent his childhood in Scotland...
 
RMcD94

RMcD94

It's no fun when the text spoils the future. Like saying the usa Pacific fleet would wreck havoc in the 1900s, well now I know they remain strong and still keep the Pacific Coast. Plus other spoilers
 
EnglishCanuck

EnglishCanuck

RMcD94 said:
If he has a Glasgow accent how is he English? He spent his childhood in Scotland...
Click to expand...

John A had a distinctly British identity when he was in Canada. He had a Scottish heritage yes, but growing up he would have been surrounded by people who were working to distinguish themselves from both the French identity of Canada East, and the American identity of the United States to the south. Hence a feeling of being 'English' or 'British'. It is a linguistic identity as much as anything else.

Identity is a very difficult thing to chart in early Canada, it's a polygot system based as much on being what you were not as much as what you were.

RMcD94 said:
It's no fun when the text spoils the future. Like saying the usa Pacific fleet would wreck havoc in the 1900s, well now I know they remain strong and still keep the Pacific Coast. Plus other spoilers
Click to expand...

The way I've written this TTL does lend itself to mild spoilers of the future, but none so great as to seriously inform you as to future events I think ;)
 

Grenadier

Saphroneth said:
This may help in determining the size of Canadian forces (counting Maritimes) if you've lost that portion of your notes.


http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1862/mar/04/resolution#column_1038

Hansard debates - by March 1862 there were 80,000 to 90,000 Volunteers "trained or in course of training" irrespective of British garrison.

Which is a tidy little army, really.
Click to expand...

Ah but don't forget if a war with the US did break out most of them wouldn't want to fight/or would want to be Americans so that number would fall significantly
 
EnglishCanuck

EnglishCanuck

Saphroneth said:
This may help in determining the size of Canadian forces (counting Maritimes) if you've lost that portion of your notes.


http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1862/mar/04/resolution#column_1038

Hansard debates - by March 1862 there were 80,000 to 90,000 Volunteers "trained or in course of training" irrespective of British garrison.

Which is a tidy little army, really.
Click to expand...

Well this is inclusive of all the colonies including New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, which Nova Scotia alone registered some 34,000 men training for militia duty in 1862.

They'd be under the command of the Lt. Governors of their respective colonial governments too, and in all likelihood only volunteers could be readily brigaded with the regulars, which seems to have been the idea.

Best I can find says there were 5,000 total volunteers in the Maritimes (exclusive of PEI and Newfoundland) come the end of 1862 and irrespective of sedentary militia who turned out to drill. Though small that's actually a pretty large number in terms of total population.

Though its important to note that this is an off the cusp number from a parliamentary debate.

Grenadier said:
Ah but don't forget if a war with the US did break out most of them wouldn't want to fight/or would want to be Americans so that number would fall significantly
Click to expand...

Well I don't think anyone who has read this TL seriously believes that :p hell I have trouble thinking anyone believes that!
 
RMcD94

RMcD94

EnglishCanuck said:
John A had a distinctly British identity when he was in Canada. He had a Scottish heritage yes, but growing up he would have been surrounded by people who were working to distinguish themselves from both the French identity of Canada East, and the American identity of the United States to the south. Hence a feeling of being 'English' or 'British'. It is a linguistic identity as much as anything else.
Click to expand...

British and English, and may I emphasise here, might be used equivalently for people born inside of England but for a Scotsman? This would never happen. You do not call a Scotsmen English. Pretty standard stuff here. You don't call Obama a Texan or a New Yorker.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Actually, this was during a period of relative lack-of-emphasis of Scots identity, as I recall. Possibly the revival had begun by now, but there was a period when Scotland was "North Britain" in fairly common usage.
 
EnglishCanuck

EnglishCanuck

RMcD94 said:
British and English, and may I emphasise here, might be used equivalently for people born inside of England but for a Scotsman? This would never happen. You do not call a Scotsmen English. Pretty standard stuff here. You don't call Obama a Texan or a New Yorker.
Click to expand...

I think you misunderstand the context English is being used in here. The POV character, Cartier, is French. When he refers to John A as an Englishman, he means literally he is a man who speaks English. When John A refers to Dorion disliking him because he's English, he again means that Dorion dislikes him because he is a member of the English speaking population.

It doesn't really matter if John A thinks of himself as a Scot (which he didn't particularly), he's English to the French. John A would indeed refer to himself as English in order to distinguish himself from the French speaking population.
 
Beedok

Beedok

Interesting timeline. I get a little lost in some of the battles though.:eek:

(Also I'm remind why I don't touch the Civil War era or WWII era as PoDs...)
 

TFSmith121

Banned
And yet...

Saphroneth said:
This may help in determining the size of Canadian forces (counting Maritimes) if you've lost that portion of your notes.

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1862/mar/04/resolution#column_1038

Hansard debates - by March 1862 there were 80,000 to 90,000 Volunteers "trained or in course of training" irrespective of British garrison.

Which is a tidy little army, really.
Click to expand...

And yet...

https://archive.org/stream/organizationcom00petrgoog#page/n35/mode/2up

Apparently the British Army itself didn't see anything close to such numbers in an official survey the very same year...

Best,
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top