WI: Muslim Vikings?

[Paradoxer]

The native Egyptian population was simply too big for a demographic "storm" and the arabs were already pretty spread thin, genetic studies have proven this though there was a not insignificant arab component in modern egyptian genetics.

No not really the only strongly Shi'ite turkic groups are the azerbaijani turks and the alevis of central anatolia, the rest of the Turks are very much Sunnis and don't possess much of a shia component at all, or that I know of at the least.

The thing is who's going to spread shi'ism to the europeans? Their most immediate muslim neighbours are the Andalusians who are Sunni Malikis, I suppose depending on where we put the PoD the shi'ite kalbids and fatimids could convert some or maybe the Zaydi Idrisids of Morocco but really Sunni muslims have held the ball in that part of the world for the vast majority of the time.

With Vikings and Slavs I am thinking they make contact with various Turkic khanate along rivers in Rus land and the Black Sea/Ukrainian steppes.

The Golden Horde was Muslim right. I know it’s centuries later then we are talking about but they were by far not first horde or even first Muslim one. Maybe earlier Islam conversion for alt early horde. Turkic or whatever? That seems more likely and easier way to expand Islam is steppes. The rest is harder to do by pure force due to geography at least right away. Also Islam always seem to appeal to nomadic and semi nomadic people.

For example, you have earlier Muslim khanate form across Central Asia and expands past urals to Ukraine and Rus lands. Now you have Viking contact with Muslims.

The Islamization of Turkic groups might be good comparison for Indo European Islamization since both groups share common similarities in their pre islamic folklore and customs. So more Ottoman like Muslims especially closer to the mediterranean.

If Muslims secure Iberia, conquered Byzantium like otl, and win out in steppes Europe surrounded and if Vikings are still pagan then it might become more beneficial to become Muslims then Christians.

Although that likely make slave trade in north and across steppes as bad as the Sub-Saharan slave trade plus Mediterranean one by Berbers pirate. Islam would be more excessive with slavery but not breed as many like cattle. The Vikings probably take to idea of castrating male thrall/slaves then working them to death and taking women to harems in raids with loot.

Christianity at least tried to lower that among themselves and very gradually did. Like having some Catholic kingdoms getting permission to take over other ones for “not being Christian enough”(having shit like slavery of Christians or constant raids. Old habits often died hard. One reason they promoted chivalry in hopes to discourage behavior). The Vikings become more like Berbers pirates but in North Sea and along Eastern European rivers to Ural Mountains

 

[Ursogulos]

Although that likely make slave trade in north and across steppes as bad as the Sub-Saharan slave trade plus Mediterranean one by Berbers pirate. Islam would be more excessive with slavery but not breed as many like cattle. The Vikings probably take to idea of castrating male thrall/slaves then working them to death and taking women to harems in raids with loot.

Well throwing Turkic groups in the mix is bound to give rise to such a scenario. Just imagine a crimean Khanate on steriods one century before Ottomans becoming a thing and conducting raids as far as scandinavia. Despite being a mongol state, OTL golden horde never ventured deep into Europe past Poland and after Nogai, these were limited to east Lithuania and carpathians. Now if alt Ottomans rise in such a Europe, will we see a seperate military apparatus in their army (ala varangians )or will the norsemen be included in janissaries and sipahis(or whatever regular military this state has)?

 

[Vulgarian]

With Vikings and Slavs I am thinking they make contact with various Turkic khanate along rivers in Rus land and the Black Sea/Ukrainian steppes.

The Golden Horde was Muslim right. I know it’s centuries later then we are talking about but they were by far not first horde or even first Muslim one. Maybe earlier Islam conversion for alt early horde. Turkic or whatever? That seems more likely and easier way to expand Islam is steppes. The rest is harder to do by pure force due to geography at least right away. Also Islam always seem to appeal to nomadic and semi nomadic people.

For example, you have earlier Muslim khanate form across Central Asia and expands past urals to Ukraine and Rus lands. Now you have Viking contact with Muslims.

The Islamization of Turkic groups might be good comparison for Indo European Islamization since both groups share common similarities in their pre islamic folklore and customs. So more Ottoman like Muslims especially closer to the mediterranean.

If Muslims secure Iberia, conquered Byzantium like otl, and win out in steppes Europe surrounded and if Vikings are still pagan then it might become more beneficial to become Muslims then Christians.

Although that likely make slave trade in north and across steppes as bad as the Sub-Saharan slave trade plus Mediterranean one by Berbers pirate. Islam would be more excessive with slavery but not breed as many like cattle. The Vikings probably take to idea of castrating male thrall/slaves then working them to death and taking women to harems in raids with loot.

Christianity at least tried to lower that among themselves and very gradually did. Like having some Catholic kingdoms getting permission to take over other ones for “not being Christian enough”(having shit like slavery of Christians or constant raids. Old habits often died hard. One reason they promoted chivalry in hopes to discourage behavior). The Vikings become more like Berbers pirates but in North Sea and along Eastern European rivers to Ural Mountains

The group you're looking at here is probably the Khazars. They basically ruled a lot of the same lands that the Golden horde would later control. OTL they converted to Judaism (probably, there's at least one article arguing that never really happened). It's often said they did so to maintain an independent stance from Constantinople and the Arabs (which is reasonable but again we don't know this is the reason).

They seem to have had a strong influence on the Rus. Many believe that arab descriptions of the Rus and their model of kingship show a strong Khazar influence. Another group in the same region was the Volga Bulgars who did convert to islam, but seem not to have held anything like the prestige that the Khazar Khaganate did.

Have the Khazar's convert to islam, as I suggested earlier in the thread, and it's not inconceivable that the Rus might follow suit - and possibly at an earlier date than OTL Rus conversion to Christianity.