When you Wish Upon a Frog (Book II of the Jim Henson at Disney saga)

[Geekhis Khan]

the first half of your original post implied you think the status quo should remain the same, but you flipped it in the latter half to mean the exact opposite, hence "you had us in the first half"

So you support the status quo, women paid less than men despite greater achievement. Got it. Respectfully disagree. Enough said, moving on.

 

[jpj1421]

So you support the status quo, women paid less than men despite greater achievement. Got it. Respectfully disagree. Enough said, moving on.

Hmm. Traditionally the way this meme is used is acknowledging that there was a misdirection while agreeing with the actual point. So, "they had us in the first half" is an acknowledgment of your misdirection, and in the traditional way the meme is used they would be agreeing with your ultimate conclusion. It's generally an appreciation of the misdirection itself.

Typical use of this meme:

Original Poster- set up a joke with a reactionary statement, punchline of joke that is actually very progressive that conveys actual opinion.

Poster That agrees: "they had us in the first half"

 

[Geekhis Khan]

Hmm. Traditionally the way this meme is used is acknowledging that there was a misdirection while agreeing with the actual point. So, "they had us in the first half" is an acknowledgment of your misdirection, and in the traditional way the meme is used they would be agreeing with your ultimate conclusion. It's generally an appreciation of the misdirection itself.

Typical use of this meme:

Original Poster- set up a joke with a reactionary statement, punchline of joke that is actually very progressive that conveys actual opinion.

Poster That agrees: "they had us in the first half"

Copy thank you for clarifying for this out of touch old fart, lol.

 

[LordYam]

eh I didn’t get the meme either

 

[Denliner]

It does have a "head start" vis-à-vis OTL, probably 5-15 years in most areas and maybe 20-25 in others (e.g. small Nuclear).

Sounds like a great start.

There are certainly parallels, though the situation's even crazier here since there are literally dozens of ethnic and political factions.

True. The existing atrocities during the Congo War certainly don't help in making this alternate conflict any less gruesome.

Well, the 2000s certainly aren't in the constant cloud of 9/11, though terrorism and by extension anti-Muslim backlash remain a major source of fear and division for many, particularly after Bismarck, and the Congo is still leading to questions on US interventionism and the limits of military power. I'm leaving the door open to other issues in the 2010s.

While I doubt anti-Muslim backlash would be as bad as OTL since no Iraq/Afghanistan and no 9/11, I won't be surprised if conservatives targeted Muslim refugees and immigrants regardless since they failed so badly with the LGBT community during the late 90s. Increased border security and immigration restriction might be the name of the game for the GOP during the 2000s.

The "Civil War" between conservatives seems very interesting. Hopefully, we will see America go in a more moderate direction ITTL instead of being the polarized political hellscape it is now.

 

[TheFaultsofAlts]

For those who are unaware of that meme, it is used as a response to a bait-and-switch. In this case, it was a reactionary image to the old stereotype of "women in US sports shouldn't be paid as much as the men do", only to be pleasantly surprised when hearing you think they deserve to be paid better than they are.

I hope this helps.

 

[Migrant_Coconut]

Twin Towers or not, Islam is still a, quote, "lie from the pit of hell." So no change from that side of the aisle.

 

[Pyro]

I'll let @jpj1421 explain his reasoning (looks like he has), though I will add that I think a LOT of politicians who assumed power iOTL belong in ASB.

Methinks that many people would believe that Stephen Harper would be PM back in 2004 OTL so I don't see PM Jack Layton as too out of left field. Jack was much more personable and came off as more earnest than his contemporaries so perhaps he made the jump from municipal politics to federal earlier.

The big question I have for @jpj1421 is whether his government was minority or majority. I'm thinking the former is most likely and maybe, just maybe, he could pull off the latter like Harper did.

 

[Migrant_Coconut]

I'm fairly sure that there's a whole lot of Libs who'd vote NDP if they A) had confidence in the Dipper leaderhip, and B) weren't scared of a split base and Con minority. But IMO those two conditions have never been present at the same time.

 

[jpj1421]

Methinks that many people would believe that Stephen Harper would be PM back in 2004 OTL so I don't see PM Jack Layton as too out of left field. Jack was much more personable and came off as more earnest than his contemporaries so perhaps he made the jump from municipal politics to federal earlier.

The big question I have for @jpj1421 is whether his government was minority or majority. I'm thinking the former is most likely and maybe, just maybe, he could pull off the latter like Harper did.

Minority government. Confidence and supply with the help of the Liberals after 06, and then an assortment of left of center MPs after 08.

I'm fairly sure that there's a whole lot of Libs who'd vote NDP if they A) had confidence in the Dipper leaderhip, and B) weren't scared of a split base and Con minority. But IMO those two conditions have never been present at the same time.

It could be that there was some vote splitting on the other side that helped the NDP vote.

 

[Migrant_Coconut]

It could be that there was some vote splitting on the other side that helped the NDP vote.

I assume the ProgCons and Alliance never merge (or do, but without Harper in charge)? That's the only two solutions I can think of.

 

[ajm8888]

I am surprised no one mentioned the fact I put Ishihara into a a coalition with the LDP watch for what happens in 2011...

 

[Plateosaurus]

As a Canadian, I approve of more NDP

 

[wietze]

Yay to more Terry Pratchett, Who and Aardman!

For some reason I'm imagining Angus the Bull as being roughly equivalent to OTL's Jakers! The Adventures of Piggly Wiggs, but starring a Scottish bull instead of an Irish pig. Also, if you tell me the lead character isn't voiced by David Tennant, I will simply refuse to believe you.

lol i suspect this is angus (with torero shaun the sheep)

 

[Geekhis Khan]

For those who are unaware of that meme, it is used as a response to a bait-and-switch. In this case, it was a reactionary image to the old stereotype of "women in US sports shouldn't be paid as much as the men do", only to be pleasantly surprised when hearing you think they deserve to be paid better than they are.

I hope this helps.

Thanks. For the record, I was this meme today:

 

[Geekhis Khan]

Mad About Muppet Man (2005)
From Mad About Muppets with Mad Molly Moolah Netsite, March 1st, 2010

Hi, I’m Molly and I’m Mad for Muppets, and so are you. That’s why you’re here right? I mean, you should all know this by now. 😊

But before I get into today’s AWESOME INCREDIBLE FABULOUS Film Muppet Man, I have a big announcement myself:

Remember those “Piggy as Disney Princesses” prints[1] I made and sold under the LOLA as a Fundraiser? Of course you do, you all bought me out! (Love you love you love you!!!! <3 <3 <3)

(Actually from KO Makes Things on Twitter; KO has a couple for Beauty and the Beast too, which sadly won’t exist in this timeline)

Well, Disney saw them and…



………



Well…….



………



Gonna make you wait for it!!!



………



THEY LOVED THEM AND BOUGHT THE RIGHTS AND ARE NOW MAKING OFFICIAL POSTERS, CALENDARS, AND EVEN TOYS AND DOLLS AND SUCH!!!!!!!!

I DESIGNED OFFICIAL DISNEY MUPPETS MERCH!!!!!

SQUEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahem, sorry (not sorry!!).

But better still, I got a thank you letter from none other than ChairWOMAN of Disney, Lisa Henson!!!

DOUBLE SQUEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Double ahem.

She said:

---

Dear Ms. [Moolah] (Sorry, I’m not sharing my real last name yet!!)

Walt Disney Entertainment has always encouraged our fans to follow their imaginations, to be inspired, and to be inspiring. The LOLA agreement is one of our more successful programs for Sharing the Magic, and we are happy to see that you made such creative use of it. My father and Mr. Walt Disney Miller particularly appreciate your clever reimagining of our beloved Miss Piggy taking over the roles of our beloved Princesses. Piggy was always a princess in her own right. And it is a personal pleasure to see young women like yourself be creative and inspiring.[2]

As such, we thank you for sharing your creativity with Walt Disney Entertainment, and per your request the proceeds from all sales from the Princess Piggy line will go to support our Wildlife Conservation efforts at DisneySea and Disney’s Animal Kingdom.

Thank you again for your creative input. Stay inspired!

Sincerely,

Lisa M. Henson, Chairwoman

---

OMG I know right?!?

I have officially died and gone to Hog Heaven.

(Image ©Disney; source Women You Should Know)

Oh, and prepare for my next big announcement: my upcoming video series on Viewpoint! Details to come soon!

So yeah what were we here for again?

OF COURSE, 2005’s Muppet Man which if you live under a rock is a Jim Henson Biopic made entirely with Muppets!!!

Yes not the Muppets Muppets (though they appear in very small form) but like original Muppets based on Jim and Frank and the rest. Some of them already existed apparently as I saw some on The Muppet Show.

Jim, Frank, and Jerry Jam Out (Image source Indiewire)

So, if you haven’t seen Muppet Man FOR SHAME YOU ARE DEAD TO ME, lol jk.

So, Muppet Man is a Biopic of Jim Henson obviously but what makes it stand out is that they do it all with Muppets no humans appearing on screen. Jim, Jane, Frank, the Jerrys, the Guest Stars (even the ones like Elton John and Prince who voice themselves!) are played by Muppets. And it’s a basic formulaic biopic but played kind of openly fast and loose with the facts with lots of fourth wall breaks and self-aware comedy because duh it’s the Muppets.

The Muppet Formerly Known as Prince (Image source Muppet Wiki)

It follows Jim from childhood through his high school years in Maryland through his time doing Sam & Friends with Jane through Sesame Street and The Muppet Show and Disney and all of that. It’s got all the usual exaggerated biopic cliché melodrama moments, some of which are totally silly (like Jim who never even smoked pot getting addicted to placebos) to some of them based kind of in dramatic reality (like an affair with Daryl Hannah). It’s totally Muppets but it’s totally kind of real and serious and was even nominated for some Golden Globe awards and won a BAFTA but Oscar snubbed it except for a technical nom because Oscar sucks (Oscar the Award not Oscar the Grouch who is awesome!)

But the highlight for me was seeing Muppets use Muppets by which I mean the People Muppets like Jim and Frank using the Muppets Muppets like Kermie and Piggie, which was amazing to behold as SOMEHOW they manage to have the Muppet Men use their own little Muppets. They haven’t yet revealed how they did it but rumors suggest teams of four with wires or animatronics or something.

Much better than Fozzie’s attempts at least (image source Twitter)

Seeing the Caroll Spinney Muppet put on the Big Bird costume and the Richard Hunt Muppet put on Sweetums was just surreal!!!

But like in the end it’s a real serious film and a heartwarming drama and so like bring your tissue box because you’ll laugh and cry and laugh some more but totally love Jim and the Muppets all the more.

But you know this already because you’ve seen it 10,000 times like me, right? Or why are you here?

So tune in next week where we’ll talk about another film we’ve all seen 10,000 times: 2005’s The Muppets Return which relaunched the Muppets in film after a short hiatus and made Mucho Moolah while it was at it and revitalized the Muppets for a new generation and showing them just how awesome that Kermie and Piggie and Rowlf are.

Some of us already knew all that, of course!!!

---

[1] Based on a Mrs. Khan idea. Apparently “KO” on Twitter had the same idea.

[2] Compare to the infamous letter from Walt to prospective animator Mary Ford in 1938.

 

[TheFaultsofAlts]

Thanks. For the record, I was this meme today:

Completely irritating to be around? Because when someone pulls out that meme, it's probably a result of someone or some company being clueless about their audience. No offense to you, of course.

Mad About Muppet Man (2005)
From Mad About Muppets with Mad Molly Moolah Netsite, March 1st, 2010

Hi, I’m Molly and I’m Mad for Muppets, and so are you. That’s why you’re here right? I mean, you should all know this by now. 😊

But before I get into today’s AWESOME INCREDIBLE FABULOUS Film Muppet Man, I have a big announcement myself:

Remember those “Piggy as Disney Princesses” prints[1] I made and sold under the LOLA as a Fundraiser? Of course you do, you all bought me out! (Love you love you love you!!!! <3 <3 <3)

(Actually from KO Makes Things on Twitter; KO has a couple for Beauty and the Beast too, which sadly won’t exist in this timeline)

Well, Disney saw them and…



………



Well…….



………



Gonna make you wait for it!!!



………



THEY LOVED THEM AND BOUGHT THE RIGHTS AND ARE NOW MAKING OFFICIAL POSTERS, CALENDARS, AND EVEN TOYS AND DOLLS AND SUCH!!!!!!!!

I DESIGNED OFFICIAL DISNEY MUPPETS MERCH!!!!!

SQUEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahem, sorry (not sorry!!).

But better still, I got a thank you letter from none other than ChairWOMAN of Disney, Lisa Henson!!!

DOUBLE SQUEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Double ahem.

She said:

---

Dear Ms. [Moolah] (Sorry, I’m not sharing my real last name yet!!)

Walt Disney Entertainment has always encouraged our fans to follow their imaginations, to be inspired, and to be inspiring. The LOLA agreement is one of our more successful programs for Sharing the Magic, and we are happy to see that you made such creative use of it. My father and Mr. Walt Disney Miller particularly appreciate your clever reimagining of our beloved Miss Piggy taking over the roles of our beloved Princesses. Piggy was always a princess in her own right. And it is a personal pleasure to see young women like yourself be creative and inspiring.[2]

As such, we thank you for sharing your creativity with Walt Disney Entertainment, and per your request the proceeds from all sales from the Princess Piggy line will go to support our Wildlife Conservation efforts at DisneySea and Disney’s Animal Kingdom.

Thank you again for your creative input. Stay inspired!

Sincerely,

Lisa M. Henson, Chairwoman

---

OMG I know right?!?

I have officially died and gone to Hog Heaven.

(Image ©Disney; source Women You Should Know)

Oh, and prepare for my next big announcement: my upcoming video series on Viewpoint! Details to come soon!

So yeah what were we here for again?

OF COURSE, 2005’s Muppet Man which if you live under a rock is a Jim Henson Biopic made entirely with Muppets!!!

Yes not the Muppets Muppets (though they appear in very small form) but like original Muppets based on Jim and Frank and the rest. Some of them already existed apparently as I saw some on The Muppet Show.

Jim, Frank, and Jerry Jam Out (Image source Indiewire)

So, if you haven’t seen Muppet Man FOR SHAME YOU ARE DEAD TO ME, lol jk.

So, Muppet Man is a Biopic of Jim Henson obviously but what makes it stand out is that they do it all with Muppets no humans appearing on screen. Jim, Jane, Frank, the Jerrys, the Guest Stars (even the ones like Elton John and Prince who voice themselves!) are played by Muppets. And it’s a basic formulaic biopic but played kind of openly fast and loose with the facts with lots of fourth wall breaks and self-aware comedy because duh it’s the Muppets.

View attachment 826682
The Muppet Formerly Known as Prince (Image source Muppet Wiki)

It follows Jim from childhood through his high school years in Maryland through his time doing Sam & Friends with Jane through Sesame Street and The Muppet Show and Disney and all of that. It’s got all the usual exaggerated biopic cliché melodrama moments, some of which are totally silly (like Jim who never even smoked pot getting addicted to placebos) to some of them based kind of in dramatic reality (like an affair with Daryl Hannah). It’s totally Muppets but it’s totally kind of real and serious and was even nominated for some Golden Globe awards and won a BAFTA but Oscar snubbed it except for a technical nom because Oscar sucks (Oscar the Award not Oscar the Grouch who is awesome!)

But the highlight for me was seeing Muppets use Muppets by which I mean the People Muppets like Jim and Frank using the Muppets Muppets like Kermie and Piggie, which was amazing to behold as SOMEHOW they manage to have the Muppet Men use their own little Muppets. They haven’t yet revealed how they did it but rumors suggest teams of four with wires or animatronics or something.

Much better than Fozzie’s attempts at least (image source Twitter)

Seeing the Caroll Spinney Muppet put on the Big Bird costume and the Richard Hunt Muppet put on Sweetums was just surreal!!!

But like in the end it’s a real serious film and a heartwarming drama and so like bring your tissue box because you’ll laugh and cry and laugh some more but totally love Jim and the Muppets all the more.

But you know this already because you’ve seen it 10,000 times like me, right? Or why are you here?

So tune in next week where we’ll talk about another film we’ve all seen 10,000 times: 2005’s The Muppets Return which relaunched the Muppets in film after a short hiatus and made Mucho Moolah while it was at it and revitalized the Muppets for a new generation and showing them just how awesome that Kermie and Piggie and Rowlf are.

Some of us already knew all that, of course!!!

---

[1] Based on a Mrs. Khan idea. Apparently “KO” on Twitter had the same idea.

[2] Compare to the infamous letter from Walt to prospective animator Mary Ford in 1938.

She's FINALLY hit the big time! Jackpot!

 

[AndyWho]

Who knows, being able to 'crowdsource' funding for a team via public trusts could spread to other leagues. I wonder if someone would call 'foul' if a city's government files to become the majority shareholder as an 'individual'. Probably, but then the NFL would be right back in the same legal woods it was trying to avoid with Disney

Slowly going through the reader mode and I notice it passed up, but just for fun, this would give a certain group a little more credence in New York in 1999/2000

CNN - Real fans might buy the Jets - September 28, 1999

 

[Geekhis Khan]

Chapter 11: The View from the Summit
Excerpt from Man of Iron: The Michael Eisner Story, an unauthorized biography by Anthony Edward Stark

In 2003 Ted Turner retired as Chairman and CEO of Columbia Entertainment, staying on the board, but handing his duties and titles off to his chosen successor, Michael Eisner. Eisner, as he’d promised, recommended Brandon Tartikoff as President and COO. The board unanimously elected both. It was a quest that had begun almost two decades earlier, but Eisner was finally the head of an entertainment empire with a global reach and over $80 billion in valuation.

The summit that he’d long sought was now achieved. But after a few weeks of near-elation at having finally achieved a lifelong goal, he realized that the fulfilment he’d expected wasn’t there. Instead, something new greeted him: a sense of responsibility. He’d worked hard for over a decade as Ted Turner’s creative chief and studio head, putting up with some serious ups-and-downs, and over the years had seen the empire grow from the inside, knew everyone involved in its growth, and realized how close they’d come to having it all come crashing down more than once, particularly the narrowly-dodged Leap deal.

Put simply, he felt the need to keep that powerful machine going strong, not just use it as an instrument of his own glory.

The company was doing well. The Lord of the Rings Trilogy had defied all expectations, including his own, and held its own against Star Wars and Marvel and even the new Harry Fletcher movies. The recent Kings 2000 theme park overhauls were proving very popular. Eisner had long since abandoned trying to compete with Disney on the parks front (his first walk through DisneySea had made clear to him that Disney was on another level there), but Kings was making a steady and reliable profit as arguably “number three” in the industry (though Universal aficionados would disagree) and even hot on the heels of the “number two”, Warner Movie World and Six Flags. Coming in first now mattered less to him than standing on his own, master of his domain, the inseparable face of the New Columbia, not just “Turner’s Chicken Hawk” but “Turner’s worthy successor”. And eventually, if his plans for the next two decades played out, he’d see Turner become known as “Eisner’s worthy predecessor”.

Besides, after nearly a decade “Hotlanta” was starting to feel like home.

His son Breck had gotten a job with Fantasia Television, producing a Hawkmoon made-for-TV movie as a spinoff of the popular Stormbringer, which strangely brought Eisner full-circle to his near-miss in 1984. “An Eisner at Disney after all,” he mused to Jane.

He’d felt enraged, even betrayed by Disney back in ‘84, and had even attempted to grab a slice for ABC at one point. But now, older, wiser, and slightly humbled, he silently thanked God for sending him to ABC and then Columbia. He honestly wondered if he’d have been up to running Disney in the tumultuous 1980s and 1990s after hearing the crazy stories coming out of Anaheim. He’d planned to kill Disney Animation as a non-performer. Now he’d spun up Hanna-Barbera into a true rival for the House of Mouse. He even still thought of Universal Animation, which he still referred to as Hollywood Animation, as his creation, though he had to admit that his old protégé-turned-rival Jeffrey Katzenberg had done well with it.

Reminiscing about it all, Eisner called up Jim Henson. Henson had retired to New Mexico, leaving his daughter Lisa as Chairwoman of Disney. He and Jim had a long talk full of reminiscences including about “the one that got away,” as Eisner still referred to The Dark Crystal, and soon Eisner found himself taking a trip to Henson’s newly founded “Academy” in New Mexico, which at first seemed “quaint” to him. The Academy was still very young at the time, with only a handful of small Pueblo-style cabins, a student dorm, and a single small studio building, which to Eisner seemed like a huge step down from the Chair of Disney, but Jim seemed truly happy with it all. Eisner got rather agoraphobic and impatient in the meandering, open-plan, slow-moving space, though over a few days he got used to the casual limbo of it all and found himself relaxing and reflecting for the first time in years, actually taking time to notice how the sky and the plants and the birds seemed to just keep going on, oblivious and unconcerned with what film won the Oscar or came in number one at the Holiday box office.

He was bemused at some of the little “student projects” going on, including a young Hopi puppeteer who had a small digital camera, recording some weird Southwest Indian-style puppets in the desert. It was only much later that Eisner realized that he was producing a TV-series on-site using a digital camera, producing movie-quality production for pennies on the dollar, and that the series, Desert Winds, which played on the Disney Channel, was competing with traditional studio-made shows that cost significantly more.

Traditional Hopi Kachina Figures

Eisner ultimately began to consider the possibilities of digital productions.

Eisner picked Henson’s brain while he was there, about his thoughts on balancing creativity vs. fiscal needs, managing a raucous board full of big personalities (Eisner had correctly predicted that Ted Turner wouldn’t just sit quietly on the board), and how to ensure loyalty from his subordinates. Henson’s advice on almost all of this was strangely simple: “just treat folks with respect. Listen to them, hear their thoughts, and if you have a difference of opinion, explain your reasoning. Most people, as long as they feel heard and respected, can take ‘no’ for an answer, or at least ‘yes, if…’

“And loyalty and respect need to be two-way streets. If folks know that you value them and have their back, they’ll value you and have your back. If they see you stand up for them, they’ll stick up for you. Conversely, throw them under the bus and they won’t hesitate to take you down if given the chance. Loyalty and respect can’t be demanded or purchased, only earned.”

While Eisner didn’t know if he completely agreed, it did give him something to think about. And the loyalty that the employees and fans of Disney showed to Henson was unmistakable, so maybe there was something to it.

“That and sincerity,” Henson added. “As George Burns said, learn to fake that and you’ll have it made.” Henson’s smile made clear that last part was a joke, and Eisner found himself laughing, completely caught off guard.

With his short sojourn in New Mexico complete (he called it his “exodus in in the desert”), Eisner returned to Columbia Tower in Atlanta, new handmade snakeskin cowboy boots on his feet and a new Navajo-made silver-and-turquois bola tie around his neck. His self-reflections there in the empty eternity of the desert had let him put things into perspective. In particular, he’d thought about Jeffrey Katzenberg, and their falling-out. His hate for Katzenberg had diminished somewhat over the years, evolving into a rivalry that had, in its own way, become a sort of game between the two. When he ran into Bob Iger, his old rival at ABC, at one gala, he actually took the time to speak with him. “Holding on to hate is like drinking poison, and expecting your enemy to die,” Jane Fonda had once told him, quoting the Dalai Lama or somebody. He decided to give that theory a try.

Columbia Chairman and CEO Michael Eisner takes Questions

To Eisner’s surprise he and Iger got along well, the old intrigues of a decade earlier long having dulled as “just business”. Iger had assumed duties as President/COO of Universal alongside Sumner Redstone as Chairman/CEO. The conversation, of course, led to Katzenberg, who’d just taken over as Chairman/CEO of Warner Brothers at the behest of new owners Comcast, coming up. Katzenberg was reportedly enjoying the challenge of trying to rebuild the studio in the wake of the post-Leap collapse. Eisner admitted to wanting to bury the hatchet. Iger agreed to set something up with Katzenberg.

The three met at Formosa Café and, while tensions were palpable at first, Eisner, taking a trick that he learned from Turner, immediately complimented Katzenberg on the latest numbers on the latest Green Lantern film. They stuck to safe subjects that first meeting, but that first meeting led to a second, and then later others. Eventually, after a couple of high-end bourbons (Eisner having become an early afficionado of the US whisky renaissance) they both came clean about their rivalry. While neither seemed quite ready to admit fault, they both came to agree that the whole thing had been unproductive.

The very next week they made a deal on a Looney Tunes/Hanna-Barbera Friends crossover event. Eisner had only one condition: that Foghorn Leghorn and Henry Hawk have a noteworthy role, particularly the latter.

With hatchets buried with Katzenberg, Eisner got to work as Chairman/CEO of Columbia Entertainment. His next order of business was an exploratory meeting with Time-Atlantic set up by Tartikoff to consider a future merger.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

So @Geekhis Khan I recently decided to dig into these TLs, giving it a sort of an abridged-binge treatment, and I gotta say, I've loved it!

Also, while I'm here -- how are the grandchildren of Walt and Roy O. Disney (so the seven Miller kids, Sharon's three kids, and the four of Roy E Disney) doing compared to OTL? For that matter, how did they fare OTL, or do we even know? (Because from the googling I've done, it looks like there's been plenty of drama, and it seems they own more of their family's company TTL than OTL).