Weber's Germany: The Veterinarian Totalitarian

Am I right in assuming Weber isn't as into mystical occultism as OTL hitler? So no archaeological expeditions to Tibet, or attempts to uncover the ark of the covenant or holy grail a la Indiana jones?

And how exactly has weber handled the religious situation in Germany. When I studied history, my final project was on religion in nazi Germany, so I wonder how he's handled it differently. It was one of the few areas where hitler did something intelligent. He unified most Protestant churches under his own reich church, and compromised with the pope, but otherwise left the churches alone or assured their loyalty. I'd assume Weber did something similar.

But what about after the war? Hitler wanted to replace Christianity with a nazi occult religion, but is weber going to do that? Or is he content to simply control and nazify the Christian religion as hitler did, but not go further?
 
Caught up. I rather like this TL.

One of the better ones out there in my opinion.

And a lot of it has to do with Weber. He's such an unknown in OTL and ATL that there is so much potential there. He isn't a Hitler, Himmler, Heydrich or Goering and therefore not used to death.

Weber is more pragmatic and more intelligent overall but he sill makes mistakes (Norway) so we know he is at the end of the day human = he makes mistakes like everybody else. He's not some "German demi-god" that will expand Germany from the Atlantic to the Urals and reign supreme over Eurasia/North Africa

Tom Colton has done some good research, interesting twists and familar terms with different meanings .

Overall very good. Is it the best? Well... it's not over so we can't jusge it fully but so far it is really, really good.
 
Am I right in assuming Weber isn't as into mystical occultism as OTL hitler? So no archaeological expeditions to Tibet, or attempts to uncover the ark of the covenant or holy grail a la Indiana jones?

And how exactly has weber handled the religious situation in Germany. When I studied history, my final project was on religion in nazi Germany, so I wonder how he's handled it differently. It was one of the few areas where hitler did something intelligent. He unified most Protestant churches under his own reich church, and compromised with the pope, but otherwise left the churches alone or assured their loyalty. I'd assume Weber did something similar.

But what about after the war? Hitler wanted to replace Christianity with a nazi occult religion, but is weber going to do that? Or is he content to simply control and nazify the Christian religion as hitler did, but not go further?

You are correct in that the more occult-obsessed OTL Nazis like Himmler and Rosenberg aren't the force they were in TTL's Nazi Party (Himmler died an irrelevant upstart), and Weber generally doesn't have time for that faffing around. He'll gladly appropriate old cultural symbols and use the term "Aryan" to justify German citizens running Plantation Europe, though.

EDIT: Yes, this probably also butterflies away all the Indiana Jones movies.

As for the churches, the concordat has been signed, and Weber isn't going to unnecessarily stir up hornets' nests by trying to clamp down, but he'll soon be sending a memo titled "Guidelines for the Proper Etiquette of Members of the Religious Authorities of the Reich".

Those not complying will soon find themselves working as chaplains in internment camps, if not as inmates...:eek:

Caught up. I rather like this TL.

One of the better ones out there in my opinion.

And a lot of it has to do with Weber. He's such an unknown in OTL and ATL that there is so much potential there. He isn't a Hitler, Himmler, Heydrich or Goering and therefore not used to death.

Weber is more pragmatic and more intelligent overall but he sill makes mistakes (Norway) so we know he is at the end of the day human = he makes mistakes like everybody else. He's not some "German demi-god" that will expand Germany from the Atlantic to the Urals and reign supreme over Eurasia/North Africa

Tom Colton has done some good research, interesting twists and familar terms with different meanings .

Overall very good. Is it the best? Well... it's not over so we can't jusge it fully but so far it is really, really good.
Thanks guys (and another new subscriber! Awesome! :cool: )! I hope that as it goes into the war proper I can continue to satisfy just as much, if not more.

Next update will be by today! :D
 
4.5.1 A Sickle, Stuck Fast
So within an hour then?(It's 11:00 PM where I live.)

Gorramit, this is why I always put the date when I say these things, since not all of us live in the same place/time zone (obviously). :mad::p

By "Today" I mean 13th July 2014 -- which is right now! ;)

=======

THE BATTLE OF FRANCE
The commander-in-chief of the French armed forces was General Maurice Gamelin, a veteran of the Great War whose “subtle mind” was respected even by the top Wehrmacht commanders. However, he was caught between conflicting ideas of military and political necessity, and his division of attention and strength between them proved to be disastrous for the Allied efforts in France and the Low Countries. He initially preferred a static defence along the Maginot Line; however, its defences did not extend into the Franco-Belgian border, and the cold winter of 1940 prevented extension works. Therefore, it was necessary for a more mobile defence to be organised.

Several proposals were submitted, most prominently the Dyle Plan (Plan D) and the Escaut Plan (Plan E), each named after the rivers that the defence was to be concentrated around. The former would have the Wehrmacht engaged by Allied forces further into Belgium than the latter, which was closer to the Franco-Belgian border. Complicating the situation was the Belgian declaration of neutrality in 1936. For reasons of better logistics, a deeper strategic reserve, and the insufficiently developed defences in Gembloux, Plan E was chosen, meaning that the Belgians would have to essentially fend for themselves [1].

However, ironically, the initially determined defence of the Netherlands by General Henri Winkelman suggested to Gamelin that it might after all be able to stymie the German advance in the Low Countries, especially now that the defences at Gembloux were now further developed; Plan D was hastily employed, overextending French logistical lines and committing the British Expeditionary Force along the Dyle with the barest of acknowledgement by the Belgian government. The sudden Dutch capitulation in the face of continued bombardment by the Luftwaffe meant that instead of flanking the Germans as hopes, the underprepared Allied forces were now doomed to encirclements in the face of Army Group B [2].

The sudden switch to Plan D from Plan E remains one of the most controversial decisions by the Allied Powers in the Spring War. The link-up with Dutch forces had been lost, but adopting Plan D meant that a narrower front would need to be defended, relieving pressure on the line.. Fergusson suggests that it may have been justified had the Dutch forces held out merely a week longer, to give the French, British and Belgian forces enough time to consolidate and outflank the Germans.


fBFGMQu.png

Figure 18: General Maurice Gustave Gamelin, commander-in-chief of the French forces during the opening stages of the Battle of France.

The attempt by the BEF to encircle the German forces emerging from the Netherlands was thus doomed to failure when the Wehrmacht turned around earlier than expected, and tore through the unprepared defensive lines, forcing the Allied forces to hastily retreat to the better-equipped defences along the Escaut. Thankfully for Gamelin, the suddenness of the German breakout meant that relatively few units had been deployed along the Dyle, and thus were able to retreat in an orderly fashion. However, the re-commitment to Plan E meant that the Belgian forces and the majority of the BEF were now practically stranded in Belgium, and the Wehrmacht overrode the country in less than two weeks, with King Leopold of Belgium surrendering on 16 May.

The entrapment of the BEF, which could only be relieved by escaping into France, and the confused diplomatic situation in Norway, led to total frustration with Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain. Although he managed to barely survive a vote of confidence in Parliament, Chamberlain knew his days were numbered, and drew up a proposal for the Labour Party to join his government. When the Labour leader Clement Attlee declined, stating that they would happily join the government if not for Chamberlain himself, Chamberlain met with the Viscount Halifax, who commanded considerably more popularity at this point. Halifax, in his memoirs, notes that he was “initially hesitant”, but when Chamberlain pressed on the points of Halifax’s support from the people, the political system and the King himself in their three-hour discussion, Halifax conceded that the British people would need a leader with mass support, and accepted the position.

q4vvAA2.png

Figure 19: Edward Frederick Lindley Wood, 1st Earl of Halifax and Prime Minister of the United Kingdom after Neville Chamberlain’s resignation [3].

Halifax’s first priority was to rescue the British forces, which were now trapped in a perilous corridor leading towards Dunkirk, on the French coast. Preparations were made for a massed fleet of various types of vessels to evacuate the BEF. However, the situation on the ground rapidly changed again when the true assault envisioned in Manstein’s version of Fall Gelb kicked into action. The massive push of German forces from Luxembourg, which had capitulated in less than a day, and southern Belgium, through the Ardenees forest on 14 May, later termed as “Sichelschnitt” (“Sickle-Cut”), took the Allies nearly totally by surprise, and soon formed an unmanageable pocket within the French border. The one major obstacle to German advances was the imposing fortress at Eben-Emael, which was practically invulnerable to all forms of air or land attack, and only surrendered well into 17 May despite enduring nearly 72 continuous hours of bombardment and assault, even after King Leopold III had announced the Belgian surrender [4].

However, German luck soon began to run dry there. The delaying actions of the Allied forces meant that the advance of Army Group A in the north had stalled along the Escaut, and the steadfastness of the defenders of Eben-Emael meant that the Wehrmacht had to spend several precious days resupplying and regrouping, especially since the logistics train was not as motorised as the main bulk of the Heer. Fergusson notes another “wasted opportunity” at this juncture – had the Allies committed fully to a counterattack along the Ardennes Gap or in Northern France, breaking through the German lines, it would have confounded the Wehrmacht strategy and force them to concentrate on either front, leaving the other weakened to further assaults. However, events further south would soon force Gamelin’s hand – to his, and France’s, ruination [5].

[1] See here. In TTL, the Gembloux defences are considered inadequate since the invasion's even earlier, and Gamelin goes for the safe bet...at first.
[2] The Netherlands holds out for longer in TTL than OTL, and Gamelin now thinks that he can catch the Germans on their flanks. Epic fail, unfortunately.
[3] To those throwing their arms up in consternation, I only said Churchill would eventually become PM, and really, you all should have seen this one coming once I mentioned a negotiated peace. Let's see how Halifax does, eh? ;)
[4] Weber doesn't have the slight tactical insight that Hitler had, and never twigs on to the idea of landing a glider on the roof. This small change is going to have big implications in the Spring War.
[5] "Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth day, at dawn look to the East..." :p

=======

And so we conclude this update on that massive cliffhanger...
Next update (later this week): Benito Mussolini...saviour of the Nazis???
:eek:
 
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Halifax. I don't know much about him, other then he was British Ambassador to the US at some point during and a little after the war. Also, I'm not sure why you put the Lord of the Rings reference in there.
 
No gliders on Eben-Emal roofs? Bad, Weber caution is starting to work against him.

Mussolini saviour? how? Western Alps contain the heightest mountains of Europe. I know that roman blood is strong with our Black Shirts [1] but even our nietzschean fascist supermen have limits.

For more reference google for "alpi occidentali" and go to the image search.

[1] deliberate, obscene pun.
 
Thanks, all!

Wow awesome update.:):D I did not expected PM Halifax. And that hint for the next update only intrigues me more.:):D

Halifax. I don't know much about him, other then he was British Ambassador to the US at some point during and a little after the war. Also, I'm not sure why you put the Lord of the Rings reference in there.

Wot a tweest! Halifax is often invoked by lazy AH writers who want to make a ceasefire more likely (Chamberlain offered him the position and he declined OTL.) Well, they can add one to their number now. :p

historybuff, see below:
Tom Colton said:
[FONT=&quot]Benito Mussolini...saviour of the Nazis???[/FONT][FONT=&quot] :eek:[/FONT]

This neatly feeds into the next one:

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Italians actually being useful at war?!

Mussolini saviour? how? Western Alps contain the heightest mountains of Europe. I know that roman blood is strong with our Black Shirts [1] but even our nietzschean fascist supermen have limits.

For more reference google for "alpi occidentali" and go to the image search.

[1] deliberate, obscene pun.
Threw you all in for a loop there, didn't I? Don't worry, no Hannibal-esque stunts here, even if Mussolini controlled elephant country at the time. Next update will reveal all. :cool:

===

And now for the rest...

Great updates, Tom! A negotiated peace in the West?
Oh, this one has been coming for some time now. ;)

No gliders on Eben-Emal roofs? Bad, Weber caution is starting to work against him.
Somehow, having two people at the exact same place looking at the exact same roof coming to the exact same conclusion seemed a little too contrived for me. Weber's good with horses but kind of crap at the sort of occasional tactical genius Hitler was known for. :p

===

Keep the shocked responses (and pelted fruit and veg) coming, folks! More will be revealed next update later this week. :D
 
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Mussolini saviour? how? Western Alps contain the heightest mountains of Europe. I know that roman blood is strong with our Black Shirts [1] but even our nietzschean fascist supermen have limits.

Probably not in the strict military sense, as even if this time italy entered the war with some preparation, the slightly better performance (at least we will have less death due to frostbite in the alps)will be not enough to tip the balance in military term, but the Italian DoW will probably create some panic due to the fear to fight a two front war and the Mediterrean become overnight a zone of war.
 
This a Great Timeline! I don't get a chance to post on here that often but I really like the idea of exploring a Nazi Germany that's not led by Hitler but different from the usual Goring or Himmler led Reich. Keep Up the Good Work!
 
Looking at the map I had an idea.

Seaborne coups de main using troops hidden in civilian ships on Menton, Monaco and Nice harbours. Folgore paradrops on key places on the road from Ventimiglia to Nice. A fast armoured column racing from Ventimiglia to Nice (Ventimiglia to Nice driving distance is 42 km). The whole plan starts before dawn and by sunset italian tanks are Nice.

The ground from Nice on is more open and with Nice harbour supplies can flow in.

It isn't more stupid than Market-Garden, is it :D?
 
Threw you all in for a loop there, didn't I? Don't worry, no Hannibal-esque stunts here, even if Mussolini controlled elephant country at the time.

Tom, I have never before considered "War Elephants of the Regio Esercito", and now I am envisioning "the Elephants of Tobruk" and I feel bad for doing so.
 
This a Great Timeline! I don't get a chance to post on here that often but I really like the idea of exploring a Nazi Germany that's not led by Hitler but different from the usual Goring or Himmler led Reich. Keep Up the Good Work!
Thanks! Stay on board to find out more about Weber's World! :eek:;)

From what I've read, Hitler could definitely think outside the box.
Yes, he did have the occasional flash of insight, but that was one of the factors that led him to think that he knew all the answers, and we all know how that went. :p

Probably not in the strict military sense, as even if this time italy entered the war with some preparation, the slightly better performance (at least we will have less death due to frostbite in the alps)will be not enough to tip the balance in military term, but the Italian DoW will probably create some panic due to the fear to fight a two front war and the Mediterrean become overnight a zone of war.
Looking at the map I had an idea.

Seaborne coups de main using troops hidden in civilian ships on Menton, Monaco and Nice harbours. Folgore paradrops on key places on the road from Ventimiglia to Nice. A fast armoured column racing from Ventimiglia to Nice (Ventimiglia to Nice driving distance is 42 km). The whole plan starts before dawn and by sunset italian tanks are Nice.

The ground from Nice on is more open and with Nice harbour supplies can flow in.

It isn't more stupid than Market-Garden, is it :D?
Man, I love it when I don't even have to write the timeline.

...no wait, I don't! :mad:

Nah, I kid. I do love all these suggestions; they open up areas that I might neglect or just totally leave unaccounted for. So please, keep them coming, and who knows? Ask the right questions, and you all get more timeline, which is win-win. :cool:

Also, yes, Mussolini has committed to war since the end of the Polish campaign already, so the Italians have a few months to get their shit together. We'll see how a little preparation can be a very dangerous thing...

Tom, I have never before considered "War Elephants of the Regio Esercito", and now I am envisioning "the Elephants of Tobruk" and I feel bad for doing so.
GN7X8aFmjgw.jpg

Browning machine gun on an elephant. Your argument is invalid.

Halifax will probably go down in history as architect of the Phoney Peace of 1940.
Ooh yes, he's going to be a chief suspect for sure. I'm coming to increasingly like the term "Phoney Peace" - it definitely makes it easier to distinguish the Cold War(s) of this TL, and is very thematic to this phase. :)

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Next update: A Nice Day to Die Hard, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Rely on the Italians. (note: does not accurately reflect Italian military successes in TTL, OTL, or anywhere,really). :p
 
About the Phoney Peace, who will break it?

As for the churches, the concordat has been signed, and Weber isn't going to unnecessarily stir up hornets' nests by trying to clamp down, but he'll soon be sending a memo titled "Guidelines for the Proper Etiquette of Members of the Religious Authorities of the Reich".

Those not complying will soon find themselves working as chaplains in internment camps, if not as inmates...:eek:

Has Mit brennender Sorge be redacted by the Pope? And will the Orthodox Churches and the Polish Catholic Church be stamped out as being on the way to rduce the Slavic populations to serfdom?
 
About the Phoney Peace, who will break it?

Has Mit brennender Sorge be redacted by the Pope? And will the Orthodox Churches and the Polish Catholic Church be stamped out as being on the way to rduce the Slavic populations to serfdom?

  1. Wait and see. ;)
  2. The Jewish persecution, while more insidious, is still enough to cause that to be written, although the Stasi is sending representatives to remind seminarians to be "discreet" in discussing and spreading it (otherwise gulag). The Polish Catholic Church will be subjugated by Germany and operate either in a much reduced or clandestine fashion (as I said, watch out for Józef Wojtyła). This will be elaborated on more once the Battle of France ends. As for the Orthodox Church...wait and see. :cool:
Next update is next page so it can be at the top. :p
 
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