Until Every Drop of Blood Is Paid: A More Radical American Civil War
- Thread starter Red_Galiray
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On that note, it could produce Confederado-stype ethnic enclaves in a few regions, with that in mind.
China in particular could be in for a rough time (well, it will be anyway, this might just make it worse). For example, you could see a much stronger foreign presence during the Taiping Rebellions (assuming they break out roughly as per OTL) with a lot more armed force in the form of ex-Confederate hardened war veterans being tipped into the country - but whose side they're on, if they're even all disproportionately on one side, is very unclear. Plus, that massive surplus of war weapons has to end up somewhere; a lot of it could easily end up there.
OTOH, by this point, the Qing would be more or less on the verge of victory, assuming minimal butterflies for the Taiping Rebellion.
Bravo, good sir. This TL is a triumph and a work of art. Now that the reprobates have been vanquished, on to securing the blessings of Liberty for us and our posterity. May the dream of building a city on a hill, a light to the world, become a reality.
I just realized something that might get Theodore Roosevelt into prominence earlier.
In 1886, the democrats, with Tammany Hall backing as usual, one a close election for mayor of New York city. Roosevelt finished third as a Republican, with second place a surprising candidate who was the candidate of a very Pro labor faction.
In this timeline, with Tammany Hall gone, the Republicans will probably dominate even New York city. It will be interesting to see what factions develop, perhaps the Republicans will dominate until this fellow emerges, I forget his name at the moment. Theodore Roosevelt is a smart politician and it is entirely possible that he will win that election with people throwing their support to him rather than the much more left candidate.
That's pretty far in the future, near the end of part two with the Reconstruction era, but it is interesting to note that Theodore Roosevelt could have a road to power that is actually faster than in our timeline.
In 1886, the democrats, with Tammany Hall backing as usual, one a close election for mayor of New York city. Roosevelt finished third as a Republican, with second place a surprising candidate who was the candidate of a very Pro labor faction.
In this timeline, with Tammany Hall gone, the Republicans will probably dominate even New York city. It will be interesting to see what factions develop, perhaps the Republicans will dominate until this fellow emerges, I forget his name at the moment. Theodore Roosevelt is a smart politician and it is entirely possible that he will win that election with people throwing their support to him rather than the much more left candidate.
That's pretty far in the future, near the end of part two with the Reconstruction era, but it is interesting to note that Theodore Roosevelt could have a road to power that is actually faster than in our timeline.
Considering how the other candidate was Henry George and a key part of TTL Reconstruction was land redistribution, I could see Roosevelt losing more decisively as Georgism becomes more popular, especially among an elite that sees socialism as a more credible threat. This could ironically strangle Roosevelt's career in the cradle.
Thanks for the name, all of you.
That's true, it could hurt roosevelt, although I also see him radicalizing earlier. I don't think Theodore Roosevelt of 1886 would have necessarily supported Social Security and other things that he did in 1912, but I can see him being more willing to accept these things faster. Just like Lincoln became more radical faster here.
That's true, it could hurt roosevelt, although I also see him radicalizing earlier. I don't think Theodore Roosevelt of 1886 would have necessarily supported Social Security and other things that he did in 1912, but I can see him being more willing to accept these things faster. Just like Lincoln became more radical faster here.
...That has nothing to do with socialism like at all. Socialism is a political and economic system that supports collective ownership or control over the means of production, distribution, and trade. In an effort to achieve a more fair distribution of income and a lessening of class differences, it places a strong emphasis on communal ownership and control over enterprises and resources. Socialism wants to eliminate the concept of social betters by advocating for more democratic or collective decision-making processes.
Speaking of gaining power. Who do we think will succeed Lincoln, I mean I like the idea of him serving a third term in order to see reconstruction through but he's gonna have to retire eventually. So who do we all think would be a good candidate to take in the reigns of the presidency after him?
I actually think it would be unwise for Lincoln to seek a third term, and after all he's been through, I doubt he would want it. Furthermore, I think that he would recognize the potential damage he would be doing to the institution of the presidency by doing so. If he steps down from power after two terms, he's following George Washington's playbook, which is always a good look for a US president. In any case, he doesn't need the presidency to be influential, he's going to be kingmaker of the Republican party (and thus the United States) for effectively the rest of his life. Leaving on time leaves that legacy untouched and shakes any lingering accusations of "the Tyrant Lincoln."
As for potential presidents. I know Grant has been mentioned and has solid chances (especially since Lincoln can mentor him here) as well as James Garfield. Some others mention Teddy Roosevelt as a potential rising star in the party (though obviously his chances at the top office lie in the future.) Hayes and Arthur got it IOTL, is there anything specific past butterflies that would take them off the list in ours? If I recall, Harrison is about to start a successful law practice after leaving the Union army a brevet Brigadier General.
I think that Grant has the best chances overall, especially if Lincoln spends the next few years mentoring him and showing him the ropes of politics. He's also likely to gain useful experience as a military governor or at least handling the occupation of the south.
Edit: Leaving power after two terms and divesting himself of much of the power he had taken to prosecute the war allows Lincoln to be the American Cincinnatus, rather than the American Caesar.
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God I hope Georgisim becomes a major mainstay of US politics TTL.
You make a good point on the cons of Lincoln going after a third term. I'm hesistant to support Grant getting the presidency considering what happened IOTL. Granted things are different ITTL but I'd like for something different then you know things happening like IOTL in case of Presidential Succession except better things happening. Especially with Hayes and Arthur, I'd rather that there be a different president like someone who never was IOTL. At the end of the day this is Red's timeline but I'd rather see different Presidents then you know just following what OTL Presidential successions were with just more successful results. Also Teddy Rossevelt is only a child by this point ITTL so his cahnces are definitely in the future.