Until Every Drop of Blood Is Paid: A More Radical American Civil War
- Thread starter Red_Galiray
- Start date
Breckinridge almost comes off as something of a tragic figure here. Seemingly one of the few Confederate Leaders aware of the realities of the war, what would need to be done to arrest the situation, that a negotiated settlement was now the best avenue for securing some of the the peculiar institution...
Irony is I think his critics were right, insofar as any large-scale use of the enslaved for the military is a massive pandora's box. By the time of Mobile and Atlanta it's hard to see it being of much benefit, and for it to truly work you'd need to put a ton of guns and bullets into the hands of those whose families you want to hold perpetually in bondage.
It's hard to imagine how a negotiated settlement might work at this stage, too. The Union is clearly winning, the Republicans are now running for reelection on the 13th Amendment and confiscation, there's far more distance now between them than existed in 63 or earlier. The Northern public is fickle enough that it could maybe have had a real effect on the election, though, and it seems like it might be a fairly interesting 'what if' in TTL; what if Atlanta holds for a few more weeks, Lee doesn't die, and Breckinridge is allowed to make a peace offering? Of course, with Breckinridge overthrown and Lee dead, there really is no one left to force Lincoln to reckon with a 'genuine' attempt at peace. All this tantrum will accomplish is their ultimate destruction.
Another theme is radicalization, both North and South.
The Confederacy is actually in a worse position territorially than they were in OTL, which is an interesting contrast to how much further they advanced in the first few years of the war. We've talked a lot about how the North/Lincoln have radicalized, but it seems to have also emboldened the most hard-liner elements in the confederacy too.
Irony is I think his critics were right, insofar as any large-scale use of the enslaved for the military is a massive pandora's box. By the time of Mobile and Atlanta it's hard to see it being of much benefit, and for it to truly work you'd need to put a ton of guns and bullets into the hands of those whose families you want to hold perpetually in bondage.
It's hard to imagine how a negotiated settlement might work at this stage, too. The Union is clearly winning, the Republicans are now running for reelection on the 13th Amendment and confiscation, there's far more distance now between them than existed in 63 or earlier. The Northern public is fickle enough that it could maybe have had a real effect on the election, though, and it seems like it might be a fairly interesting 'what if' in TTL; what if Atlanta holds for a few more weeks, Lee doesn't die, and Breckinridge is allowed to make a peace offering? Of course, with Breckinridge overthrown and Lee dead, there really is no one left to force Lincoln to reckon with a 'genuine' attempt at peace. All this tantrum will accomplish is their ultimate destruction.
Another theme is radicalization, both North and South.
The Confederacy is actually in a worse position territorially than they were in OTL, which is an interesting contrast to how much further they advanced in the first few years of the war. We've talked a lot about how the North/Lincoln have radicalized, but it seems to have also emboldened the most hard-liner elements in the confederacy too.
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Let the damn Slavocrats BURN!! I was so damn happy that they did this utterly asinine (and expected) move at the end, makes it certain that this horrid disease is purged until there is nothing left of it. Not one bit.
All throughout the update I felt nothing but rising happiness at the continued misfortune of the Slavers. Let 'em get purged so thoroughly, the future generations must get terrified at even thinking of exhibiting even mild racist tendencies.
Breckenridge might seem to be tragic story but, he condoned an utter evil, and for that he has no sympathy from me. Lee even less so.
All throughout the update I felt nothing but rising happiness at the continued misfortune of the Slavers. Let 'em get purged so thoroughly, the future generations must get terrified at even thinking of exhibiting even mild racist tendencies.
Breckenridge might seem to be tragic story but, he condoned an utter evil, and for that he has no sympathy from me. Lee even less so.
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Reconstruction until the 90s will short term slow down US growth and recovery but long term ensure its stability and exponential growth so it’s worth it.
Just a delightful outcome, I presume Jackson's cooperation was purchased with the promise of all the lemons he could eat. Hopefully the disaster-farce outcome that is likely to follow will destroy any hope of a Stonewall myth which might just be more nauseating that the Lee myth in OTL.
Yup. I just hope whatever gurrelia campaign the KKK wages is swiftly vanquished
remember the aristocracy of Hungry destroyed the countries army for a tax break as Ottoman invasion was a serious threat, wealthy people can be really stupid and selfish.
Also I wonder how the poor whites are going to react to Ol'Brecky being couped, especially since he didn't live in luxury, I doubt the Junta is going to live as humbly as Breckenridge.
That is hilariously nuts and I’m wondering if Europe would learn from this (probably not).
My guess is depending on the slander, but regardless, the junta’s selfishness will have Brecky become more fondly remembered as the South sinks into chaos.
So given I'm betting this is what makes Old Pete bail to the Union I wonder how many soldiers he brings with him and if the Union uses him to raise a "Southern Liberation Army"?
Considering how the new junta, and the planter class, seem to want to burn everything down rather than accept defeat there might not be enough of the southern aristocracy and die-hard Confederates left to attempt this.
I must say, I'm impressed with just how artfully the Planter Class has now painted themselves as the greatest villains of this war. They've resisted every attempt to inconvenience themselves and now launch a coup and their Provisional Government will surely do more to exacerbate the issue and further alienate the common rank and file and poor who are going to be even more susceptible to Union explanations and propaganda in the following years.
Horrible for actually accomplishing their goals, but wonderful in that moustache-twirling stupidity way.
Horrible for actually accomplishing their goals, but wonderful in that moustache-twirling stupidity way.
Yeah, that is a good point. Alot less Lost Causers also because of this
Which is why I think that, even if all the things go right, and therefore there is no coup, it would be hard for any anyone to say that the Union would have to give the southerners their freedom. Even if Atlanta and mobile hold until the election, it wouldn't be all winter, and Andrew Johnson wouldn't take office till March 4th anyway, The alternate would just be our timelime. Andrew Johnson just starts a month early.
And, even that is very unlikely TTL. Lincoln could lose his 5 closest states OTL and still have a clear majority of the electoral college. (Edit: losing the closest 7 would still just put him over OTL, Maybe it was four or five important ones that he could have lost and still won the election.)
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Is this in reference to Johnston's animosity towards Breckinridge, or did Johnston dislike Longstreet for reasons I'm not aware of?
It's neither Hamlin or Colfax. Lincoln was elected alongside John McLean in 1860, who died in office. Lincoln's current running mate for 1864 is Joseph Holt.