Union and Liberty: An American TL
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I was actually going to ask the same thing. If I am not mistaken Gaelic is also very wide spoke in TTL's Canada. I'm guessing it is more widely spoken in Acadia than Canada but what is the relationship between all these guys there.
Stumbled onto this TL the other night, have finally caught up with it. Wilcox, this is a great TL, and I've REALLY enjoyed watching the developments of new states and cities, and it will be really neat to see how this alt USA develops into the 20th century.
Like how Texas was split (that's a new one for me to see). Also interesting to see the area of Calhoun getting statehood pre-civil war (as an Okie myself, seeing this area becoming more settled early on was neat).
Look forward to more updates.
(oh, and btw, don't completely annex California into the USA. Some of it would be okay, but keep some of it independent.
)
Like how Texas was split (that's a new one for me to see). Also interesting to see the area of Calhoun getting statehood pre-civil war (as an Okie myself, seeing this area becoming more settled early on was neat).
Look forward to more updates.
(oh, and btw, don't completely annex California into the USA. Some of it would be okay, but keep some of it independent.
)Thanks!
Deseret probably will be a prosperous link between east and west for a few decades until other routes are created to bypass it. It'll still be a major area as an entrance to the Canadian prairie though.
Not sure if the Deseret will get any more land, but Rupert's Land will likely become its own dominion. Also, the Mormons will probably be more receptive to immigrants in Deseret than in Espejo, since there's been more migrants from Canada and Europe and since the Mormons in Deseret moved into an already settled area. And I'm not really sure what the demonym of Deseret is.
Deseretian? Deserite?The major languages in Canada are Gaelic, French, and English with about an equal distribution for the moment I would guess. Canada will probably maintain all three languages as the official languages of the dominion, but the dynamic between the three languages could cause trouble.
Hehe. The name "Deseret" is actually based on a word for "honeybee" in the book of Mormon, so it could really work for any Mormon state.
Thanks for the comment, I'm glad you're liking the TL.Stumbled onto this TL the other night, have finally caught up with it. Wilcox, this is a great TL, and I've REALLY enjoyed watching the developments of new states and cities, and it will be really neat to see how this alt USA develops into the 20th century.
Like how Texas was split (that's a new one for me to see). Also interesting to see the area of Calhoun getting statehood pre-civil war (as an Okie myself, seeing this area becoming more settled early on was neat).
Look forward to more updates.
(oh, and btw, don't completely annex California into the USA. Some of it would be okay, but keep some of it independent.
Nice! Enjoyed both the TR adventures and the writeup.
Q: would Mormon Canada be "Deseret" since it's not in a desert? "Forestet?"
Q: would Mormon Canada be "Deseret" since it's not in a desert? "Forestet?"
Nice! Enjoyed both the TR adventures and the writeup.
Q: would Mormon Canada be "Deseret" since it's not in a desert? "Forestet?"
Well Manitoba is not really a forest either. I believe Deseret was just a made up word meaning "industrious".
I second that.
Nice! Enjoyed both the TR adventures and the writeup.
Q: would Mormon Canada be "Deseret" since it's not in a desert? "Forestet?"
LMAO, good one.
The capitol city of Russian America is called Novo Arkhangels, not Sitka.
Please correct this because there is no reason to rename it ITTL (no Alaska purchase).
Will the dominions of British North America merge into one political union or remain indepedent from each other?
Nice! Enjoyed both the TR adventures and the writeup.
Q: would Mormon Canada be "Deseret" since it's not in a desert? "Forestet?"
Lol.Yeah, Deseret is a Mormon word for honeybee, and is meant to reflect the industrious work ethic of the coutnry.
I'm using Sitka as the name of the region of Russia consisting of the Alaska Panhandle area. ITTL as it grew, Russian Alyeska was divided into two administrative regions of Alyeska and Sitka.
I'm planning on having the BNA dominions stay separate from each other, although some might merge into loose federations later on.
Part Seventy: Ibero-American Nationalism
Here's the next update. I wanted to do a bit different writing style here and do the Latin America update in the form of an academic essay. But some real life stuff came up and I lost the drive to write the full essay (why am I writing a fictional essay again? ), so here's a couple of the excerpts that I actually finished.
Part Seventy: Ibero-American Nationalism[1]
Fractious Nationalism in Mexico:
The ideas of nationalism and the nation-state that arose in the 19th century have greatly affected the world in which we live in over the past two centuries. The rise of this abstract concept that an ethnic group deserves its own sovereign self-governing entity has inspired numerous wars and revolutions on all of the continents. There are various cultural differences in the effect that nationalism has had in different places in the world, however. In the United States, the idea of the American nation has meant embracing the multicultural society that assisted its rise and adapting itself with each wave of immigration. In the Austrian Empire, on the other hand, nationalism manifested itself as a force that tore the country apart and brought down the Habsburg dynasty. In Ibero-America, the ideals of nationalism have been used as both a unifying and a destructive factor for the collective states of the region.
The early spread of the nationalistic ideal in Ibero-America came during the Napoleonic Wars. With the occupation of much of the Iberian Peninsula by the French, revolutionary minded leaders in the Spanish colonies began the war to liberate their countries and gain independence. Over the next decade, these wars were successful and the provinces of the Spanish Empire broke free from their mother country. However, with no central authority over these vast regions, the countries soon declined into squabbling, both amongst each other and internally. Soon after, the larger countries began to break apart.
The best and most extreme example of this fractious nationalism in 1800s Ibero-America is the case of Mexico during the first half of the century. Soon after it gained its independence, Mexico was beset by conflict between the centralists who wanted a strong government in Mexico City and the federalists who wanted power to be spread through the provinces. The rash measures imposed by Santa Anna weakened the integrity of the national government and sparked numerous rebellions by federalist provinces in 1835. The Mexican-American War only fueled the rebellious sentiment of the federalists as the central government proved it could not govern its far-flung regions. As California, Texas, the Rio Bravo Republic, and Yucatan broke away, Mexico City continued to face problems among its remaining provinces. By the middle of the 1850s, the federalists in most of the provinces had gained control of the local offices, but the national government in Mexico City refused to submit to a federalist election.
By 1858, many Mexican politicians were calling for the dissolution of the United Mexican States, and when the major cities in Sonora ousted the Mexican officials, the country quickly collapsed as other states broke ties with Mexico City. The Mexican collapse is an interesting case of nationalism, because there is seemingly no inherent reason for each country to go its own separate way beyond the division after the Mexican-American War. However, the federalist officials had been promoting the uniqueness of the individual states for some time prior to the Final Collapse in 1858. For example, the state of Jalisco used the blue agave plant and the famed refinement of the agave into tequila to help forge the new country’s national identity, even putting the agave plant on the nation’s flag. Often, the newly independent states would appropriate pre-colonial tribes as a unifying factor among the people in order to craft the identity of the country. In this way, the collapse of the United Mexican States becomes clearer when the factors of emerging national identities and their use by political leaders are taken into account.
The Formation of Mokoguay:
While fractious nationalistic ideals dominated Ibero-America during the beginning of the 19th century, the latter half saw these desires for smaller independent countries wane as the economic reality of the times made larger, more cohesive states more viable than smaller, more fractured states. This economic cooperation led to closer ties between the Meso-American countries, as well as contributing to the establishment of the Parana River basin as an international waterway in 1865. Further unionist feelings among the people of these regions allowed centralist regimes in Brazil and Argentina to take control of the national governments of those two countries, and also led to the creation of new political unions and new states in Ibero-America.
The first country established by the unionistic nationalism of latter 19th century Ibero-America was the state of Mokoguay. As the economic ties between the Paraguay, the Republic of the Rio Grande, and Uruguay progressed, their policies became more and more tied. Seeing the opportunity, Paraguayan president Francisco Solano Lopez used the small stature of the three countries to engineer a union between them in 1873 to protect against aggression from Brazil and Argentina. Argentina had previously had designs on reintegrating Uruguay, and Rio Grande had broken off from Brazil only fifty years before, so the leaders of both countries agreed. While the countries were about equal in size and population, Paraguay was the dominant country of the three in industry and continued to dominate the union throughout the century. The name of the new country, Mokoguay, comes from the Guarani term for “two rivers”, representing the Parana and Uruguay Rivers as the central systems of the country.
In 1882, the new conservative government under Ignacio Martin de Aguirre enacted protectionist laws for trading along the Parana and Uruguay Rivers, violating the original 1865 agreement between Argentina, Paraguay, Rio Grande, and Uruguay, and now between Argentina and Mokoguay. Lopez protested the closing demanding that the rivers be reopened or that the countries be compensated, but Aguirre denied the requests. Lopez sought the assistance of Bolivia, which agreed as the Aguirre regime was also attempting to coerce the gauchos in the northwest of Argentina into moving money to Buenos Aires instead of the natural route toward Bolivia.
Brazil did not intervene in the Platinean War due to internal struggles between republicans and forces loyal to Emperor Pedro II. While Argentina had the upper hand initially, the use of ironclads purchased from the United States by Mokoguay helped Bolivia and Mokoguay gain control of the Parana River. Meanwhile, sporadic fighting in the high plains of western Argentina occurred while the Bolivian government supported insurrection by gauchos and federalist Argentines disloyal to the Aguirre government. Overall, the war lasted 4 years and over 300,000 soldiers died in the war, but in 1886, Argentina conceded defeat. Mokoguay gained the territory east of the Parana River while the river itself was confirmed by Aguirre as an international waterway. The rebellious federalists and gauchos in the southern Chaco also held the Second Congress of Túcuman in 1887, which established the new Federal Republic of Túcuman and was supported by Bolivia. This state soon became dependent on Bolivia for support as well as a source of contention between Bolivia and Argentina.
[1] Presented as excerpts taken from the English translation of "Unionistic and Fractious Nationalism in Ibero-America" by Enrique Sandoval, Universidad de Montevideo Editorial, 1987.
), so here's a couple of the excerpts that I actually finished.Part Seventy: Ibero-American Nationalism[1]
Fractious Nationalism in Mexico:
The ideas of nationalism and the nation-state that arose in the 19th century have greatly affected the world in which we live in over the past two centuries. The rise of this abstract concept that an ethnic group deserves its own sovereign self-governing entity has inspired numerous wars and revolutions on all of the continents. There are various cultural differences in the effect that nationalism has had in different places in the world, however. In the United States, the idea of the American nation has meant embracing the multicultural society that assisted its rise and adapting itself with each wave of immigration. In the Austrian Empire, on the other hand, nationalism manifested itself as a force that tore the country apart and brought down the Habsburg dynasty. In Ibero-America, the ideals of nationalism have been used as both a unifying and a destructive factor for the collective states of the region.
The early spread of the nationalistic ideal in Ibero-America came during the Napoleonic Wars. With the occupation of much of the Iberian Peninsula by the French, revolutionary minded leaders in the Spanish colonies began the war to liberate their countries and gain independence. Over the next decade, these wars were successful and the provinces of the Spanish Empire broke free from their mother country. However, with no central authority over these vast regions, the countries soon declined into squabbling, both amongst each other and internally. Soon after, the larger countries began to break apart.
The best and most extreme example of this fractious nationalism in 1800s Ibero-America is the case of Mexico during the first half of the century. Soon after it gained its independence, Mexico was beset by conflict between the centralists who wanted a strong government in Mexico City and the federalists who wanted power to be spread through the provinces. The rash measures imposed by Santa Anna weakened the integrity of the national government and sparked numerous rebellions by federalist provinces in 1835. The Mexican-American War only fueled the rebellious sentiment of the federalists as the central government proved it could not govern its far-flung regions. As California, Texas, the Rio Bravo Republic, and Yucatan broke away, Mexico City continued to face problems among its remaining provinces. By the middle of the 1850s, the federalists in most of the provinces had gained control of the local offices, but the national government in Mexico City refused to submit to a federalist election.
By 1858, many Mexican politicians were calling for the dissolution of the United Mexican States, and when the major cities in Sonora ousted the Mexican officials, the country quickly collapsed as other states broke ties with Mexico City. The Mexican collapse is an interesting case of nationalism, because there is seemingly no inherent reason for each country to go its own separate way beyond the division after the Mexican-American War. However, the federalist officials had been promoting the uniqueness of the individual states for some time prior to the Final Collapse in 1858. For example, the state of Jalisco used the blue agave plant and the famed refinement of the agave into tequila to help forge the new country’s national identity, even putting the agave plant on the nation’s flag. Often, the newly independent states would appropriate pre-colonial tribes as a unifying factor among the people in order to craft the identity of the country. In this way, the collapse of the United Mexican States becomes clearer when the factors of emerging national identities and their use by political leaders are taken into account.
The Formation of Mokoguay:
While fractious nationalistic ideals dominated Ibero-America during the beginning of the 19th century, the latter half saw these desires for smaller independent countries wane as the economic reality of the times made larger, more cohesive states more viable than smaller, more fractured states. This economic cooperation led to closer ties between the Meso-American countries, as well as contributing to the establishment of the Parana River basin as an international waterway in 1865. Further unionist feelings among the people of these regions allowed centralist regimes in Brazil and Argentina to take control of the national governments of those two countries, and also led to the creation of new political unions and new states in Ibero-America.
The first country established by the unionistic nationalism of latter 19th century Ibero-America was the state of Mokoguay. As the economic ties between the Paraguay, the Republic of the Rio Grande, and Uruguay progressed, their policies became more and more tied. Seeing the opportunity, Paraguayan president Francisco Solano Lopez used the small stature of the three countries to engineer a union between them in 1873 to protect against aggression from Brazil and Argentina. Argentina had previously had designs on reintegrating Uruguay, and Rio Grande had broken off from Brazil only fifty years before, so the leaders of both countries agreed. While the countries were about equal in size and population, Paraguay was the dominant country of the three in industry and continued to dominate the union throughout the century. The name of the new country, Mokoguay, comes from the Guarani term for “two rivers”, representing the Parana and Uruguay Rivers as the central systems of the country.
In 1882, the new conservative government under Ignacio Martin de Aguirre enacted protectionist laws for trading along the Parana and Uruguay Rivers, violating the original 1865 agreement between Argentina, Paraguay, Rio Grande, and Uruguay, and now between Argentina and Mokoguay. Lopez protested the closing demanding that the rivers be reopened or that the countries be compensated, but Aguirre denied the requests. Lopez sought the assistance of Bolivia, which agreed as the Aguirre regime was also attempting to coerce the gauchos in the northwest of Argentina into moving money to Buenos Aires instead of the natural route toward Bolivia.
Brazil did not intervene in the Platinean War due to internal struggles between republicans and forces loyal to Emperor Pedro II. While Argentina had the upper hand initially, the use of ironclads purchased from the United States by Mokoguay helped Bolivia and Mokoguay gain control of the Parana River. Meanwhile, sporadic fighting in the high plains of western Argentina occurred while the Bolivian government supported insurrection by gauchos and federalist Argentines disloyal to the Aguirre government. Overall, the war lasted 4 years and over 300,000 soldiers died in the war, but in 1886, Argentina conceded defeat. Mokoguay gained the territory east of the Parana River while the river itself was confirmed by Aguirre as an international waterway. The rebellious federalists and gauchos in the southern Chaco also held the Second Congress of Túcuman in 1887, which established the new Federal Republic of Túcuman and was supported by Bolivia. This state soon became dependent on Bolivia for support as well as a source of contention between Bolivia and Argentina.
[1] Presented as excerpts taken from the English translation of "Unionistic and Fractious Nationalism in Ibero-America" by Enrique Sandoval, Universidad de Montevideo Editorial, 1987.
This was quite a good update Wilcox. I think I liked it more than the previous about Canada. You certainly made the Mokuguay idea seem plausible. I was skeptical about it from the way Paraguay behaved in OTL and from how different Paraguay was and is from Uruguay, despite the similar names.
My guess is that the new country is going to have a very loose federal structure, Uruguay, Paraguay and Rio Grandese had more or less = population and area if I'm not mistaken (Uruguay maybe a slightly smaller population).
So:
Are Spanish, Portuguese, and Guarani, going to have equal stature? Or will Portoñol (Mokuguayan Romance) evolve into something real in this state.
Also the name Mokuguay, I like it, but it has an odd ring to it in Spanish; Moko (lit. snot) is not something you want your country named after.
Do you have a map of the new borders in South America?
My guess is that the new country is going to have a very loose federal structure, Uruguay, Paraguay and Rio Grandese had more or less = population and area if I'm not mistaken (Uruguay maybe a slightly smaller population).
So:
Are Spanish, Portuguese, and Guarani, going to have equal stature? Or will Portoñol (Mokuguayan Romance) evolve into something real in this state.
Also the name Mokuguay, I like it, but it has an odd ring to it in Spanish; Moko (lit. snot) is not something you want your country named after.
Do you have a map of the new borders in South America?
I am not sure how the development of trains have gone in Mexico but for Mokuguay to be viable either needs a great train system or better ships to maintain communication between the central government and the Rio Bravo. One of the reasons for the caudillos and various civil wars was the terrain was not conducive for communication and the federal government struggled to maintain control.
Thanks for all the comments everyone. Glad you like the style of the update.
I had no idea that muco was snot in Spanish. I still like the name though. I guess in the dialect spoken in Mokoguay the word for mucus could evolve to 'muco' instead as it is in Portuguese.
So far I've been thinking that Paraguay has been industrializing as per OTL, so Mokoguay could become a minor economic power at some point in the 20th century possibly on par with Argentina (probably not Brazil though).
As Riverense Portuñol hasn't really been used (that I can find) outside of Rivera and Santana do Livramento, it probably won't become a widespread language. Spanish will probably be most widely used, though Portuguese and Guarani will be official languages as well. While Paraguay, Rio Grande, and Uruguay have roughly equal populations, the addition of the Mesopotamia region of Argentina will tip the language majority to the Spanish.
I had no idea that muco was snot in Spanish.
I still like the name though. I guess in the dialect spoken in Mokoguay the word for mucus could evolve to 'muco' instead as it is in Portuguese.I suppose that could be part of the reason for Mokoguay to take the area of Argentina that it did. Control of both sides of the Uruguay River and ensured access to the Paraná would make communication much easier between the provinces. I'm still not sure where the capital should be though.
How about a new city? The capital will probably be Asuncion or Monte Video for a while and I think it is likely that the idea to build a new centralized capital would probably arise at some point. You could probably see it built sometime in the early 1900s if industrialization continues at a pre-Platinean War pace. You can have fun with the name of the new capital.
Argentina will probably stagnate for a while. So it is likely Brazil, Mokuguay and Chile will become South America's leading powers (although it seems to be you have been favoring Bolivia over Chile).
I think the location of Uruguiana (the Western border of Rio Grandese a little bit above Uruguay on the Uruguay river) would be a good location.
I would found a new city for the capital, but I don't want to do that too much. I was actually thinking of Uruguaiana or Itaqui as good spots for the capital since they're pretty centrally located. Although I just had another idea, of maybe the country being like Bolivia and having the different functions be located in different cities. I'm thinking Asuncion and Montevideo.
I was actually thinking of Uruguaiana or Itaqui as good spots for the capital since they're pretty centrally located. Although I just had another idea, of maybe the country being like Bolivia and having the different functions be located in different cities. I'm thinking Asuncion and Montevideo.A little heads up of something I just had an idea for. The first season of the New England Football League! Right now I have the teams sorted out, and I'll probably simulate the competition with an RNG.
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