The Union Forever: A TL
- Thread starter Mac Gregor
- Start date
Weapon Profile: Batts L53A1
I'll think I will start on a Commonwealth series of small arms, if you approve Mac Gregor. Since we mentioned a Commonwealth assault rifle a while back named the Batts-Enfield Assault Rifle, I'll start on that.
A British L53A1 automatic rifle, also known as a Batts-Enfield to many outside viewers, with a uncommon 20 round magazine, which was dismissed for having a very low ammo capacity by the British military and subsequently replaced by a more conventional 30 round magazine.
Name: Batts-Enfield Assault Rifle aka Batts L53A1 AR (Also known as the C53A1 in Canada, the L53A1 AR in Australia, Rifle 7.7 mm 53A1 in Madras, the R53A1 in South Africa and the SS53A4 in Indonesia)
Designer: Kenneth McPatrick Batts [1] (produced by Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield)
Type: Short-stroke gas piston automatic rifle
Caliber: .303 British (7.7x56mm) [2]
Feed system: 20 or 30 round box magazine (although 30 round magazines were more common in military service [3])
Adopted: 1953-1959 across the British Commonwealth
Users: British Commonwealth and associates, Indonesia [4]
Notes: In the late 1940's, the venerable but old Taylor-Jalenson No. 4 bolt action rifle, of Great War heritage and updated to the No. 4 standard in 1930, has started reaching the end of its service life in the British Commonwealth, and the British Army asked the Ministry for Armaments to produce a new rifle that can fire a fully automatic rifle cartridge, in response to the other powers calls for an assault tifle. The answer came in the form of Kenneth McPatrick Batt's innovative short-stroke gas piston design of automatic fire, the answer to the direct impingement firing system that was developed American Century Armaments Factory in the United States. Batt's system was accepted by the British military and was paired up with Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield for production. It was officially called the Batts L53A1 assault rifle in military records, but most people called it the Batts-Enfield in celebration of its heritage as the primary produced weapon of Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield at Enfield Lock, where the Taylor series of rifles were produced one time. The rifle was first used by British Army regulars against Indian rebels in the War for Indian Independence in 1953, then used in heavy combat against Corporatist Indian forces during the Asian-Pacific War where it was famously used in the Siege of Bangalore as the main weapon of the Royal Madrasian Army and British Army units that were in Bangalore at the time, where it symbolised the struggle of the British Army and her allies against Corporatism. It has also been kept in service as of 2000 due to its reliability against dirt, sleet and sand and its .303 British round has been continually proven as a powerful round, shredding targets with ease. It is one of the most common military firearms in the world today, in use with more than 40 countries around the globe.
[1] A fictional designer of weapons in ATL, he created the short-stroke gas piston system of automatic fire and is considered to be one of the most prolific British firearms designers in the 20th century, producing several British weapons that would become world famous.
[2] As with the Dreyse-Mauser AG Gewehr 54, since there is no 7.62x51mm NATO round in existence due to NATO not existing, the British continued to use the venerable .303 British round, since there is no European intergration this time around.
[3] The British Army rejected the OTL 20 round magazine this time around due to troops complaining of running out of ammo too quickly in the battlefield and having to reload often in the field and also complaints about the weight and the flimsiness of the magazine. RSAF Enfield solved this problem by introducing a 30 round slightly curved magazine that fixed the ammo problem and also reduced the number of magazines, meaning more rounds carried with less weight.
[4] After the independence of Indonesia in 1970, the Indonesian Republican Armed Forces was left in quite a predicament. On one hand, they had received the old armaments factories that were left behind after the Dutch withdrew from Indonesia, but on the other they had found the rifles the Dutch had carried (which was the Dreyse-Mauser G-54) to easily jam in the dust and did not perform well in the Indonesian heat, with accuracy and range being degraded significantly. They asked the British and the Japanese for some arms, and they received the Batts-Enfield rifle before the Japanese could deliver their design in time. It is still in use with some units of the IRAF, being slowly replaced by a native design.
A British L53A1 automatic rifle, also known as a Batts-Enfield to many outside viewers, with a uncommon 20 round magazine, which was dismissed for having a very low ammo capacity by the British military and subsequently replaced by a more conventional 30 round magazine.
Name: Batts-Enfield Assault Rifle aka Batts L53A1 AR (Also known as the C53A1 in Canada, the L53A1 AR in Australia, Rifle 7.7 mm 53A1 in Madras, the R53A1 in South Africa and the SS53A4 in Indonesia)
Designer: Kenneth McPatrick Batts [1] (produced by Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield)
Type: Short-stroke gas piston automatic rifle
Caliber: .303 British (7.7x56mm) [2]
Feed system: 20 or 30 round box magazine (although 30 round magazines were more common in military service [3])
Adopted: 1953-1959 across the British Commonwealth
Users: British Commonwealth and associates, Indonesia [4]
Notes: In the late 1940's, the venerable but old Taylor-Jalenson No. 4 bolt action rifle, of Great War heritage and updated to the No. 4 standard in 1930, has started reaching the end of its service life in the British Commonwealth, and the British Army asked the Ministry for Armaments to produce a new rifle that can fire a fully automatic rifle cartridge, in response to the other powers calls for an assault tifle. The answer came in the form of Kenneth McPatrick Batt's innovative short-stroke gas piston design of automatic fire, the answer to the direct impingement firing system that was developed American Century Armaments Factory in the United States. Batt's system was accepted by the British military and was paired up with Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield for production. It was officially called the Batts L53A1 assault rifle in military records, but most people called it the Batts-Enfield in celebration of its heritage as the primary produced weapon of Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield at Enfield Lock, where the Taylor series of rifles were produced one time. The rifle was first used by British Army regulars against Indian rebels in the War for Indian Independence in 1953, then used in heavy combat against Corporatist Indian forces during the Asian-Pacific War where it was famously used in the Siege of Bangalore as the main weapon of the Royal Madrasian Army and British Army units that were in Bangalore at the time, where it symbolised the struggle of the British Army and her allies against Corporatism. It has also been kept in service as of 2000 due to its reliability against dirt, sleet and sand and its .303 British round has been continually proven as a powerful round, shredding targets with ease. It is one of the most common military firearms in the world today, in use with more than 40 countries around the globe.
[1] A fictional designer of weapons in ATL, he created the short-stroke gas piston system of automatic fire and is considered to be one of the most prolific British firearms designers in the 20th century, producing several British weapons that would become world famous.
[2] As with the Dreyse-Mauser AG Gewehr 54, since there is no 7.62x51mm NATO round in existence due to NATO not existing, the British continued to use the venerable .303 British round, since there is no European intergration this time around.
[3] The British Army rejected the OTL 20 round magazine this time around due to troops complaining of running out of ammo too quickly in the battlefield and having to reload often in the field and also complaints about the weight and the flimsiness of the magazine. RSAF Enfield solved this problem by introducing a 30 round slightly curved magazine that fixed the ammo problem and also reduced the number of magazines, meaning more rounds carried with less weight.
[4] After the independence of Indonesia in 1970, the Indonesian Republican Armed Forces was left in quite a predicament. On one hand, they had received the old armaments factories that were left behind after the Dutch withdrew from Indonesia, but on the other they had found the rifles the Dutch had carried (which was the Dreyse-Mauser G-54) to easily jam in the dust and did not perform well in the Indonesian heat, with accuracy and range being degraded significantly. They asked the British and the Japanese for some arms, and they received the Batts-Enfield rifle before the Japanese could deliver their design in time. It is still in use with some units of the IRAF, being slowly replaced by a native design.
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Weapon Profile: G-54
Deleted member 83898
Here's my take on the development of Imperial German and AES service rifles.
Name: Automatisches Gewehr jhr. 54 (designated G-54 in Germany, Hungary, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Albania, and Royalist Spain, Vz. 58 in Bohemia and Slovakia, Gv m/63 in Denmark, AG-56 in Norway, Ak-4 in Sweden, and VS-56 in Slovenia and Croatia)*
Designer: Johann Kaltenbach and Wilhelm Steigler, Dreyse-Mauser Waffenfabrik AG [1]
Type: Roller-delayed-blowback-operated automatic rifle
Caliber: 7.92x40mm AES [2]
Feed system: 20 or 30 round box magazine
Adopted: 1954-1962 throughout the AES
Users: Germany, other AES states, Persia and client states [3]
Notes: By the early 1950s, it was becoming increasingly apparent to militaries all across the world that the bolt-action service rifles adopted by the various powers at the turn of the century were rapidly becoming woefully obsolescent. Though most of Europe had not known war for more than four decades since the conclusion of the Great War, unrest in the colonial sphere and the continued existence of alliances in Europe itself served to drum up calls within European militaries for the modernization of small arms. Within the armed forces of the German Empire and its AES allies, this modernization took the form of the G-54, an automatic rifle firing an intermediate cartridge designed chiefly by engineers Johann Kaltenbach and Wilhelm Steigler of the famed Dreyse-Mauser corporation. It would go on to serve for several decades in a number of conflicts, ranging from the colonial independence conflicts waged by the AES states throughout the period to more conventional conflicts such as the Asia-Pacific War and the Iberian Civil War, where it would be used by the armed forces of Persia and Royalist Spain, respectively. In German and AES service, the G-54 would continually find its service life extended as technical issues continued to plague its radically innovative successor.
to be continued at a later date
* I would very much appreciate it if people familiar with those languages and/or those countries' military nomenclature could critique and help me improve my designations.
[1] Nikolaus von Dreyse encounters a certain Paul Mauser and names him successor to his mill in Sömmerda.
[2] In OTL, Ludwig Vorgrimler (who designed the OTL CETME rifle, which itself led to the G3, IIRC) initially developed a proprietary 7.92x40mm round for his rifle. The caliber was later changed to 7.62x51mm NATO in order to ensure commonality with the rest of NATO. In TTL, I figured it would be more in line with German military tradition (7.92x57mm Mauser, 7.92x33mm Kurz, etc.) and better reflective of the geopolitical situation of TTL's Germany (at the head of a major power bloc) if TTL's G-54 kept the 7.92x40mm round.
[3] In OTL, Iran adopted the G3 rifle sometime during the Cold War period. I just figured that they'd adopt a similar rifle in TTL. I imagine that TTL's Persian successor to the G-54 would be indigenously designed and produced, just as Iran in OTL has designed, produced, and fielded some of its own indigenous small arms designs.
Name: Automatisches Gewehr jhr. 54 (designated G-54 in Germany, Hungary, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Albania, and Royalist Spain, Vz. 58 in Bohemia and Slovakia, Gv m/63 in Denmark, AG-56 in Norway, Ak-4 in Sweden, and VS-56 in Slovenia and Croatia)*
Designer: Johann Kaltenbach and Wilhelm Steigler, Dreyse-Mauser Waffenfabrik AG [1]
Type: Roller-delayed-blowback-operated automatic rifle
Caliber: 7.92x40mm AES [2]
Feed system: 20 or 30 round box magazine
Adopted: 1954-1962 throughout the AES
Users: Germany, other AES states, Persia and client states [3]
Notes: By the early 1950s, it was becoming increasingly apparent to militaries all across the world that the bolt-action service rifles adopted by the various powers at the turn of the century were rapidly becoming woefully obsolescent. Though most of Europe had not known war for more than four decades since the conclusion of the Great War, unrest in the colonial sphere and the continued existence of alliances in Europe itself served to drum up calls within European militaries for the modernization of small arms. Within the armed forces of the German Empire and its AES allies, this modernization took the form of the G-54, an automatic rifle firing an intermediate cartridge designed chiefly by engineers Johann Kaltenbach and Wilhelm Steigler of the famed Dreyse-Mauser corporation. It would go on to serve for several decades in a number of conflicts, ranging from the colonial independence conflicts waged by the AES states throughout the period to more conventional conflicts such as the Asia-Pacific War and the Iberian Civil War, where it would be used by the armed forces of Persia and Royalist Spain, respectively. In German and AES service, the G-54 would continually find its service life extended as technical issues continued to plague its radically innovative successor.
to be continued at a later date
* I would very much appreciate it if people familiar with those languages and/or those countries' military nomenclature could critique and help me improve my designations.
[1] Nikolaus von Dreyse encounters a certain Paul Mauser and names him successor to his mill in Sömmerda.
[2] In OTL, Ludwig Vorgrimler (who designed the OTL CETME rifle, which itself led to the G3, IIRC) initially developed a proprietary 7.92x40mm round for his rifle. The caliber was later changed to 7.62x51mm NATO in order to ensure commonality with the rest of NATO. In TTL, I figured it would be more in line with German military tradition (7.92x57mm Mauser, 7.92x33mm Kurz, etc.) and better reflective of the geopolitical situation of TTL's Germany (at the head of a major power bloc) if TTL's G-54 kept the 7.92x40mm round.
[3] In OTL, Iran adopted the G3 rifle sometime during the Cold War period. I just figured that they'd adopt a similar rifle in TTL. I imagine that TTL's Persian successor to the G-54 would be indigenously designed and produced, just as Iran in OTL has designed, produced, and fielded some of its own indigenous small arms designs.
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RightTosser, that is a good start, however there are a few things that need to be taken into account in the Union Forever.
The Union Forever relies heavily on butterflies, which means that ATL will be very different than OTL, like concepts, words, city names and countries.
The POD for this TL is May 12, 1862, and Mac Gregor has explicitly said that most people born after the POD will never exist. Which means that Ludwig Vorgrimler and Theodor Löffler would have never existed due to them born nearly 50 years after the initial POD. Also, the existence of Mauser would be also called into question due to it being founded in 1874, way after the POD. Paul Mauser will still exist due to him being born in 1838, however he may have done something else during the POD years.
It is a good start on the G-54, but these details must be taken into account. At least you got the general geopolitical situation right.
The Union Forever relies heavily on butterflies, which means that ATL will be very different than OTL, like concepts, words, city names and countries.
The POD for this TL is May 12, 1862, and Mac Gregor has explicitly said that most people born after the POD will never exist. Which means that Ludwig Vorgrimler and Theodor Löffler would have never existed due to them born nearly 50 years after the initial POD. Also, the existence of Mauser would be also called into question due to it being founded in 1874, way after the POD. Paul Mauser will still exist due to him being born in 1838, however he may have done something else during the POD years.
It is a good start on the G-54, but these details must be taken into account. At least you got the general geopolitical situation right.
Deleted member 83898
Alright, I've toyed with several ideas for alternate manufacturers.
1. Krupp- by the time of the POD, the Krupp dynasty had already been producing things for several centuries, and I do believe that they were already majorly involved in steel and artillery production by that time, so the whole company will keep a military trajectory in its product line-up. However, I'm not sure that Krupp was ever involved in small arms manufacturing from that point forth.
2. Steyr-Mannlicher- Steyr-Mannlicher was apparently founded in 1864- just two years after the POD. That may disqualify it already. If they do exist, however, it becomes a German company after Prussia unifies Germany, Austria included, after the Great War.
3. Dreyse- In OTL, Nikolaus von Dreyse, the inventor of the Dreyse needle gun, died in 1867, and his mill was never heard of again. In TTL, we'll say that Dreyse lives a little longer, and/or is able to appoint a successor to continue operation of his mill. Perhaps he runs into a certain Paul Mauser?
I'll conjure up some random German names for the engineers of the G-54, and I'd really like to have some sort of Dreyse-descended manufacturer produce the gun.
The butterflies start up slowly, so I reckon Steyr and Dreyse would stay around since the German Empire still exists. Steyr would be the most likely producer of the G-54 since it would have gotten into Arms.
Dreyse could work with Mauser, since they pioneered the whole bolt action rifle. The rifles were pretty innovative for the time, and they would be well accepted within the German Empire.
It would be facing opposition in the face of the Batts-Enfield assault rifle of the Commonwealth, since was introduced at roughly the same time. I made up the name Kenneth McPatrick Batts in keeping within British naming conventions, since Batts probably pioneered the short stroke piston system of automatic fire, like James Paris Lee pioneered the innovative Lee-Enfield bolt action system. Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield still exists due to it being founded in 1818.
I love that you remembered the Batts-Enfield! Looks good. We just need to write some comments for the notes.
Great article Right Tosser! A few comments.
1) Czechia is known as Bohemia ITTL.
2) I'm flexible when it comes to designers/manufactures. Concerning Mauser, I mentioned a Mauser 1871 rifle in my 1872 Winchester article, so I kind of assumed that Mauser was still around ITTL. However, as RyderWest pointed out that Butteflys have probably changed this. I like the idea of Mauser going to work for Dreyse. Would the designer continue to be called Dreyse or would Dreyse-Mauser serve better? I have a mind to change that in my Winchester post.
Keep up the good work Right Tosser and Ryder West.
Deleted member 83898
Actually, Dreyse-Mauser would probably be better, especially if Paul Mauser is Dreyse's successor.
I will edit my post accordingly.
Excellent! I have already changed my Winchester article. Cheers!
Mac Gregor, I think Kenneth McPatrick Batts would have invented the short stroke piston system used in the Batts-Enfield, since it fits with standard British military naming at the time.
James Paris Lee created the innovative bolt action system in OTL, which went into the rifle known as the Lee-Enfield and its predecessor known as the Lee-Metford. Since the rifle was named with the inventor of the system then the company by the time the SMLE rolled around in OTL, I reckon they would do the same.
James Paris Lee created the innovative bolt action system in OTL, which went into the rifle known as the Lee-Enfield and its predecessor known as the Lee-Metford. Since the rifle was named with the inventor of the system then the company by the time the SMLE rolled around in OTL, I reckon they would do the same.
Ok then, I am editing the article on the Batts-Enfield now.
Also, what would the American assault rifle be?
Note: Done with the edit.
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There is a Civil War going on in the IEF with various factions fighting for independence as well. There has been no direct intervention by outside nations, although German, Turkish, Persian, and Chinese efforts are currently ongoing to assist various factions.