The Trouble with Tariffs

[racefan31]

Dude, that is ASB. There is no way in hell the northern states ratify a constitutional amendment that gives Andrew Jackson a lifetime appointment. There is no way the U.S. becomes a de facto elected monarchy fifty years after independence.

The northern states were forced to sign the amendment - they had no choice. And it won't be an elected monarchy, either.

Knowing Andrew Jackson, as soon as secession was declared and possibly before, he would have moved in with the Federal army and crushed all opposition. Cottolvania wouldn't last a month. He certainly wouldn't wait for approval from Congress. Conveniently, this is one area that Presidents have the power to take care of the issue alone, enforcing the law. I don't really see how Cottolovania could mount an effective resistance.

Uh, it takes time to gather an army and send it to crush the opposition. It doesn't happen in a few days, it takes weeks for it to build up. (Which is why Cottolvania managed to survive a month without attack.)

I do not see how "Cottolvania"(which will forever be the most retarded name ever) can possibly not go fascist and also end up a dictatorship? I mean, the damn OP had John C Calhoun write in the Cottolvanian constitution that the President could serve for 20 years....

Did you not read what I said? I said that the U.S. would go fascist, not Cottolvania. Also, Cottonese Presidents are elected every five years, with 20 years being the maximum.

Never mind the fact that by this stage, John C Calhoun, the founding father, was a States Rights demagogue, not the nationalist that he was back in his War of 1812 days. Technically he just created a damn country with limited states rights which he hates.

Actually, he created a country with full states rights, not limited.

Cheapest war ever.

I quite agree.

 

[fox~ringo]

How exactly were the northern states forced into ratifying that amendment? Why would Andrew Jackson push for such a thing when he can lock up 1836 by crushing South Carolina's rebellion? Are Sam Houston, James Polk, and whole Southern states under John Calhoun's magical spell (because that is not in their character)?

 

[Darth_Kiryan]

How exactly were the northern states forced into ratifying that amendment? Why would Andrew Jackson push for such a thing when he can lock up 1836 by crushing South Carolina's rebellion? Are Sam Houston, James Polk, and whole Southern states under John Calhoun's magical spell (because that is not in their character)?

I'll just quote what he said here.

You may have noticed that by July 1833, Tennessee is actually part of Cottolvania. As far as Houston, he had been forced by President Calhoun to rebel against Andrew Jackson. Polk, too, has be forced to rebel. Crockett is the mastermind behind the state being a part of Cottolvania.

Forced. The two proteges of Jackson have been forced to fight against him.
Never mind that Tennessee, a state which in 1832 was so pro-jackson somehow magically decides to tell him to go an screw himself.

I'm just going to quote Rich Rostrom here:

Political animosity toward the current President is very far removed from wanting to break up the country. There was as much hostility to Jackson in New England as in South Carolina.

Here is a little fact you might consider: in 1832, Jackson was handily re-elected, beating Henry Clay 54% to 37%. He was unopposed in Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi, and got 95% in Tennessee, 85% in North Carolina, and 75% in Virginia.

Did you not read what I said? I said that the U.S. would go fascist, not Cottolvania. Also, Cottonese Presidents are elected every five years, with 20 years being the maximum.

and you are just not listening to criticisms in general.

You have a well written prose of a timeline, but you are not accepting people's criticisms, people who are offering you FACTS and FIGURES by the way - that is why it is scaring people away. They will not read a timeline that makes no sense. I will say it agaion, Jackson handidly won in the south both in 1828 and 1832 because he was popular there. and even at the time of the crisis, NO STATE legislature was willing to go along with Calhoun. None. Not one.

 

[racefan31]

How exactly were the northern states forced into ratifying that amendment? Why would Andrew Jackson push for such a thing when he can lock up 1836 by crushing South Carolina's rebellion? Are Sam Houston, James Polk, and whole Southern states under John Calhoun's magical spell (because that is not in their character)?

They were forced so that Jackson wouldn't be able to leave office before he died. In fact, all future presidents are in office for the rest of their lives.

 

[racefan31]

I may post a new chapter next week, if not this week.

 

[racefan31]

Preview of a new chapter:

THE POLK-BUCHANAN AGREMENT

Samuel S. Phelps, founder of the Republican Party​

On December 13th, 1848, Cottovanian President James K. Polk met with U.S. President James Buchanan in Washington to sign the Polk-Buchanan Agreement, which forced the U.S. and Cottolvania to not fight each other for 15 years. The agreement also ended the 15-year rivalry between those countries. Some Congressmen agreed to end the hardships. However, some dissenters in the U.S. did not want to be friendly to the South. Led by Senator Samuel S. Phelps from Vermont, these politicians formed the Republican Party as a challenger to both the Democrats and Liberals.

 

[racefan31]

More:

THE POLK-BUCHANAN AGREEMENT AND THE FORMATION OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY

Samuel S. Phelps, founder of the Republican Party​

On December 13th, 1848, Cottovanian President James K. Polk met with U.S. President James Buchanan in Washington to sign the Polk-Buchanan Agreement, which forced the U.S. and Cottolvania to not fight each other for 15 years. The agreement also ended the 15-year rivalry between those countries. Some Congressmen agreed to end the hardships. However, some dissenters in the U.S. did not want to be friendly to the South. Led by Senator Samuel S. Phelps from Vermont, these politicians formed the Republican Party as a challenger to both the Democrats and Liberals.

Buchanan disagreed with the Republicans on a number of factors. First of all, the Republicans wanted the U.S. and Cottolvania to be enemies, not friends. Second, they disagreed with the Democrats on many issues. Despite the Liberals' decline in stability, they still had more members than the Republicans, allowing the Democrats to sweep both the 1848 and 1852 vice-presidential elections, along with the 1850 and 1854 midterms, by huge margins.

However, the Republicans pressed on, and in 1856, they sent in Charles Goodyear, inventor of vulcanized rubber, as a candidate for Vice-President against Democrat Nathan Clifford and Liberal Stephen Douglas. Goodyear got all of New England to vote for him, while Clifford and Douglas divided up the rest of the states.

Republican Vice-Presidential candidate Charles Goodyear

Liberal Vice-Presidential candidate Stephen Douglas​

The result was that Clifford won the most votes, but could not get the majority of votes to be elected Vice-President. For the first time since 1824, the election would be decided by the House of Representatives. Clifford ended up with the most support, and as a result, was reelected Vice-President. The Republicans were losing ground...

 

[racefan31]

A new update:

THE GREAT ITALIAN WAR

King Ferdinand II of the Two Sicilies, the main factor in the Great Italian War​

Europe was changing throughout the mid-19th century. Rivalries and alliances were helping to bring the continent to war. The first such war was the Great Italian War between Sardinia and The Two Sicilies. The war began in 1837 when King Charles Albert of Sardinia launched a naval fleet against Sicilian soldiers off the coast of Naples. King Ferdinand II of the Two Sicilies then realized that Spain was funding the attack, prompting war against Sardinia.

By this time, the Carlists have won control of Spain after the queen caught ill and Don Carlos took over the Spanish throne as King Carlos V. Carlos would then sign an alliance with Charles Albert that guarantee the two to not attack each other. Both of them declared war on the Two Sicilies on May 4th, 1837. France then declared war on Spain on June 3rd. Tuscany and the Papal States decided to go neutral, although Tuscany would join on Sardinia's side in 1838.

King Carlos V of Spain

The new flag of Spain, now run by Carlists​

At first the war was a naval battle, with French and Sicilian ships winning a lot of battles. Then, on May 23rd, 1838, France, along with the Italian states of Parma and Modena (the latter of which had declared war on Lucca), launched an invasion of the Sardinian mainland, with the French reaching Turin by July 3rd. This prompted the Grand Duchy of Tuscany to declare war on France, invading Corsica on October 1st. However, thanks to support from Cottolvania, the French successfully pushed the Tuscans off the island. Grand Duke Leopold II then signed a ceasefire on December 29th, 1838, three days before he fled to San Marino.

Grand Duke Leopold II of Tuscany​

On January 4th, 1839, Tuscany, with Leopold II's three-year old son, Ferdinand IV, on the throne, officially became a French puppet state. The Hapsburg royal family was executed, and Louis Philippe I put his son, Prince Ferdinand, on the throne as Grand Duke Ferdinand V of Tuscany. The country was reformed as an Orléans-based liberal state modeled on France. Sadly, Ferdinand V would die on July 13, 1842, with his son, Prince Philippe, becoming Grand Duke Philip I of Tuscany.

Grand Duke Ferdinand V of Tuscany​

Spain then surrendered to France on March 4th, 1839, followed by Sardinia the next day. The war was about to close...

 

[racefan31]

Are there any comments on the last two chapters?

 

[Art]

This has got to be one of . . .

The silliest TLs ever.

 

[racefan31]

The silliest TLs ever.

Don't worry, it'll sort itself out eventually.

 

[vesica]

Well positives first: I'll give you is well written. You have a great structure, and fairly decently writing style, so there is that.

But beyond that... i find myself agreeing with so many of my predecessors; so much of this Timelines beginning is far fetched and hard to grasp I'm fairly certain ASB's heads are hurting.

Never mind the reason for secession, never mind that somehow the United States turned into a pseudo dictatorship... how did three small almost entirely unindustralized states get enough weapons and men together to invade the north and force a treaty? That's like Canada invading the United States and somehow conquering Washington and making half of the north Canadian provinces.

And how did President Jackson and that southern tin-pot magician force anyone to do anything? If the Federal Army couldn't defeat a handful of southern states how in the Lord's name could they force anyone to do anything... any large state would have told Jackson where to go and he really couldn't have done anything about... how did the Southern Magician convince PRO Jackson states to rebel against him.. it just wouldn't happen. Again it would be like Alberta leaving Canada because Harper was being a dick.

I scratched my head so often reading this thing people assumed I had something on my head.

 

[racefan31]

Never mind the reason for secession, never mind that somehow the United States turned into a pseudo dictatorship... how did three small almost entirely unindustralized states get enough weapons and men together to invade the north and force a treaty? That's like Canada invading the United States and somehow conquering Washington and making half of the north Canadian provinces.

According to Wikipedia

Robert Hayne, who followed Hamilton as governor in 1833, established a 2,000-man group of mounted minutemen and 25,000 infantry who would march to Charleston in the event of a military conflict.

From there, they would take over other states, and then invade north.

And how did President Jackson and that southern tin-pot magician force anyone to do anything? If the Federal Army couldn't defeat a handful of southern states how in the Lord's name could they force anyone to do anything... any large state would have told Jackson where to go and he really couldn't have done anything about... how did the Southern Magician convince PRO Jackson states to rebel against him.. it just wouldn't happen.

I guess it's because Jackson didn't want to leave office, or he didn't want to be a bad president.


*The quote is turn, is taking from William W. Freehling's Prelude to Civil War: The Nullification Crisis in South Carolina 1816-1836, which was published 50 years ago.

 

[TheYoungPretender]

It's got an engaging story.

But is there some kind of bat-signal that can be sent up that summons TFSmith on some of the military history aspects of this whole thing?

 

[Indigo]

Did Freehling ever said anything about Cottolvania or Spartandia? Also, did you ever try calculating, say, how many soldiers Jackson and the U.S. government could raise? Because that's not really reflected in the TL at all.

 

[Admiral Halsey]

It's got an engaging story.

But is there some kind of bat-signal that can be sent up that summons TFSmith on some of the military history aspects of this whole thing?

You could always PM him asking him to take a look at it.

 

[Darth_Kiryan]

The fact that everything on this timeline is based upon the entire south supporting John C Calhoun, when the fact of the matter was that every state in the south thought that Calhoiun was a nut and actually said he was a nut and would not follow him in any attempt.

Every damn state, when seeing what Calhoun was planning practically retreated from supporting him in any way and reaffirmed their loyalty to Jackson and the Union.

of course, never mind the fact that Sam Houston and James K polk are somehow enemies of jackson....

But this has all been explained previously in this thread....

 

[TheYoungPretender]

The fact that everything on this timeline is based upon the entire south supporting John C Calhoun, when the fact of the matter was that every state in the south thought that Calhoiun was a nut and actually said he was a nut and would not follow him in any attempt.

Every damn state, when seeing what Calhoun was planning practically retreated from supporting him in any way and reaffirmed their loyalty to Jackson and the Union.

of course, never mind the fact that Sam Houston and James K polk are somehow enemies of jackson....

But this has all been explained previously in this thread....

This is perhaps why I'd rather have him stay focused on Burnished...

 

[Admiral Halsey]

This is perhaps why I'd rather have him stay focused on Burnished...

Same here but still i'd love to see him take this down with some cold hard facts.

 

[Darth_Kiryan]

This is perhaps why I'd rather have him stay focused on Burnished...

Same here but still i'd love to see him take this down with some cold hard facts.

Its not just Polk and Houston....its that nearly every Jackson supporter seems to develop an anti-jackson stance.....and follows Calhoun.

EVEN TENNESSEE of all places. The state that is the most Diehard Jackson place in the US at that time.