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Deleted member 67076
I wanted to do a regular timeline format to skip ahead but got bored doing that. Thought this was more fun.So, what's with the countdown?
Yes.
>Implying Marines can stand up against superior Ottoman firepower.
Its really, really unlikely but it can happen.
>Implying Romania can conquer Bulgaria.I highly doubt it.Were there even any female Bulgarian rulers?It would be a precedent to do s
Why not all 3? Have the rivals smash themselves and then turn on the exhausted Ottomans, setting themselves up as the prominent Anatolian power.
Well they have the home field advantage and the single best organized, equipped and well trained army. They are pretty outnumbered though, I'd say at worst there's a 3:1 disadvantage.
Really loving the mix of narrative styles
They can still pay and train their armed forces. (Remember, the Janissaries were started by Orhan before any expansion into Europe had occurred.) What the Ottomans have now was the most developed part of Byzantine Asia and therefore is still a pretty wealthy area to build a power base from (as the Empire of Nicaea will tell you). That said, its quite a bit smaller than OTL without the manpower and resources of the Balkans behind them.
The sheer amount of manpower behind the coalition speaks otherwise, but that said you're on point here.
Someone's been reading my notes.i predict trebizond will enter this war late and sweep up the tired competition
Joking aside, this may end up a prryhic victory for the ottomans. They have the best army, but the coalition may be able to inflict some pain on them.
They can probably do it if they try it in two to three decade's time.
I can see the campaign turning out into some kind of Battle of Sarhu kind of situation where the 'coalition' turns into each state doing their own thing with the Ottomans engaging one opponent at a time and beating them with their superb quality.Murad was by all means a fairly competent commander.Why not all 3? Have the rivals smash themselves and then turn on the exhausted Ottomans, setting themselves up as the prominent Anatolian power.
Well they have the home field advantage and the single best organized, equipped and well trained army. They are pretty outnumbered though, I'd say at worst there's a 3:1 disadvantage.
They can still pay and train their armed forces. (Remember, the Janissaries were started by Orhan before any expansion into Europe had occurred.) What the Ottomans have now was the most developed part of Byzantine Asia and therefore is still a pretty wealthy area to build a power base from (as the Empire of Nicaea will tell you). That said, its quite a bit smaller than OTL without the manpower and resources of the Balkans behind them.
The sheer amount of manpower behind the coalition speaks otherwise, but that said you're on point here.
Someone's been reading my notes.
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Skanderbeu
Banned
I personally believe just to mess with us Soverihn will make the Ottomans win just to make us question what Rome's endgame will be.
Finally gone through the entire timeline, and hitting the subscribe button way too much to make sure I don't miss any of it.
Here's hoping the Ottomans get put in their proper place with this war.
Here's hoping the Ottomans get put in their proper place with this war.
Deleted member 67076
Nope. With Ivan Alexander managing to get Bulgaria back under central control (which is something I see that would have happened given no Ottomans in the Balkans and not one but 3 boogymen for the state to take advantage of) the Bulgarians can finally put their massive manpower to use. That combined with good relations between the two and the fact Romania needs their grain makes attempting a conquest a bad proposition.
Possibly.
Via blockading, moving troops around, bombing ports and helping to co-ordinate between the coalition.
You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
Dragos Cel Mare
Banned
It's perfectly possible that neither the Manisa League or the Ottomans would have something they can call a conclusive victory; the Ottomans win on land, but lose at sea.
I must say though that the Ottomans will probably win the war and might even get a few territories,but with it's expansion curtailed due to the casualties taken in fighting off the Coalition.
Another thing is I don't think the Ottomans will be hurt that much by the Roman navy unless there's a long sustained blockade(one that lasts for a number of years).
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Deleted member 67076
After I finish up with the war I'll do a map to detail the different territorial changes.
Deleted member 67076
I dunno. Denmark might still be doing their wars of conquest but how successful thatll be I got not idea. Any suggestions?
As do I. Probably should be up by next week.
Dragos Cel Mare
Banned
1.) Not really.
2.) Cool!
Edit: You know, I at least hope that Aydin's memory will be respected even after it is destroyed.
I hope so to!
Perhaps after many years of Eastern Roman expansion in Anatolia and good relations with Aydin, maybe some form of peaceful absorption is on the cards. I have no idea if something like that is possible.
All I really know is that we have to pressure Sov to find a way to make Aydin survive in the ERE!!
Constantinople
Banned
Again, always impressed with this timeline. It will be interesting to see how the war against the Ottomans go, and indeed, how Timur plays into this in the years to come...
Dragos Cel Mare
Banned
Hmm, a thought; when the New World is discovered, would Tobacco still catch on?
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Deleted member 67076
Nah that's highly unlikely.I hope so to!
Perhaps after many years of Eastern Roman expansion in Anatolia and good relations with Aydin, maybe some form of peaceful absorption is on the cards. I have no idea if something like that is possible.
All I really know is that we have to pressure Sov to find a way to make Aydin survive in the ERE!!
Maybe.
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The War of the Manisa League
Imagine for a moment you are a high ranking administrator; someone in the upper echelon of the bureaucracy in the Roman Empire as of 1369. Imagine that you’re looking over the reports about the stockpiles of equipment and men and ships; military matters and what not. You know, logistics.
As you peer through the piles and piles of paper (courtesy of those fancy new paper making things the department had recently imported- probably from Egypt or Italy, but you’re not exactly sure. Doesn’t really matter.) you might be feeling good about the state’s prospects.
You see that on paper the empire has a decently sized army of ~16,000 men- of which at least 3, maybe 4 and half thousand or so are professional troops. The specific numbers don't’ matter; they never do. You’ve been working long enough to realize that things on paper never match the reality on the ground. But still, these are numbers that you can take some pride in. Especially when you hear the older workers talk about about how bad things were a mere 20 years ago, or when the civil war was raging on.
You continue looking through the reports. You see the navy has a good 30 or so warships. You see the Marines have over 3,000 men in their service. That the navy, combined with its trading ships totals up to almost 100 vessels. Not bad. Looking at these statistics, you’re confident that the navy is better than anything your neighbors have, or any of your rivals- except for Genoa. But who cares, they’re on our team. That alliance is still ongoing, despite some news about Roman sailors bickering with the Italians over trade or something. Again, doesn’t matter.
All in all though, things look great. And you just know this is the force that’s going to liberate Nicea in a few years, that’s going to retake the Anatolian homeland from the infidels. And of course they will. You’re sure of it. Rumors are everywhere that emperor John is mobilizing and getting ready to strike. The hiring of mercenaries, the alliances, the increase in shipbuilding- all the signs are there. Once emperor John gives the word, Romania is going to march back into Nicea, smash the Turks, and reclaim her lost lands and continue the new Golden Age.
...Imagine your shock two year from now when you read reports that 7,000 men have died trying to support your allies against the Ottoman onslaught. That the Turks are on the verge of overrunning the empire’s Saruhan allies and have routed a Candarid army.
If the first thought in your mind was ‘What the hell just happened?’, you’ve accurately described the mood of Romania a year into the War of the Manisa League. The empire went in with the thought that there would be little challenge; war against the Ottomans would be quick and one sided. And for the first year, they were half right. It would be one sided… in the Ottomans’ favor.
This was not an unreasonable development; the recent upswing in luck of the past 2 decades had seen the empire stop her century long financial crisis, regain territory lost to it since the reign of Andronikos II and finally ended the diplomatic isolation the state faced amongst her neighbors (and replaced it with the near unbelievable rage in the more feudal areas of Europe, but eh, out of sight and out of mind. Who cares what barbarians think?). To nearly every person in the empire, Romania looked like it was invincible. Or close to it.
Of course this image was going to be shattered once reality hit. In hindsight, sending an army that was primarily made up of militia troops into an area far outside their comfort zone in hostile territory against hardened professional troops is insanity. But hey, overconfidence is a hell of a drug. What can you do?
But, lets get into the war itself. As you know, the first year of the war would be a time of nearly unopposed Ottoman expansion. On the western frontiers, the Ottomans had managed to expand against the coalition’s armies. The outnumbered Saruhanids and its allies looked like they could only delay the seeming inevitable push of Ottoman forces. That while the Ottomans hadn’t the manpower to match the coalition, they had superior troops, excellent equipment, excellent commanders, had planned this out, and weren’t plagued by squabbling and half-hearted efforts to mobilize troops.
Now fortunately for the coalition, the Candarids were having much better progress. Having joined the war effort several months after the war proper began, for reasons officially unknown (although one could probably suspect if the Candarids wanted to use the coalition to test the strength of the Ottomans before deciding to commit to this war) Sultan Suleyman wasn’t aware that his northern neighbor had been part of the alliance against him, and was quite shocked aback when Candarid forces began capturing towns in Bithynia. The Candarids, able to amass a force numbering nearly 20,000 soldiers (including cavalrymen) had startled the Beylerbey to recall much of his army and their commander (his brother) Murad from the western front to deal with the Candarids. The remainder were given orders not to press further and instead hold the newly occupied lands, lest they too need to be recalled. This gave the western front the breather it needed to regroup and reorganize.
Within a few months the situation had once more changed and the western coalition was on the offensive. From both Aydin and Romania troops were sent in to reinforce the Aegean front while the navy was hard at work to help coordinate actions between the 3 powers and attempt to choke whatever naval trade the Ottomans received. Needless to say, Genoa was not pleased, but took no real action against the coalition.
As one might expect, Romania had to strip much of her reserves to help support the war effort, in addition to recruit mercenaries- an unpopular decision. Nearly all of the professional troops from back home went in to reinforce the Aegean front, but a few contingents (nothing more than a few hundred) did came to support the Candarids. Meanwhile, the freshly hired mercenaries were sent to the front to attack the Ottomans as quickly as possible.
What followed was a year long stalemate that tested the debate between quality against quantity. One the one hand, the Ottomans may have had superior, well equipped troops and were fighting on familiar terrain but on the other, they were often facing forces more numerous than their own. Well aware of this, Suleyman and Murad attempted to avoid pitched battles, while the Manisa league eagerly tried to force the Ottomans in. Unfortunately, whatever pitched battles that happened were usually victories for the Ottomans and with heavy casualties for the Manisa league.
Things got worse for the League. The next year would see the near decimation of Candarid forces in battle and the fragile stalemate being broken in the north. By August of 1372, Janissaries were sieging the walls of Sinope. Fortunately, a combination of Roman marines and the remainder of the Candarid army were able to help repulse the invaders, with (for once) heavy losses on the Ottomans’ part. This had a galvanizing effect on morale, and the ensuing weeks saw some of the gains by the Ottomans reversed, though the Beylik of Candar would never see her former lands completely restored in this war. Regrettably, the western front was worse, with a grinding and fluid border that saw neither force make much headway. However, unlike the Candarids, the Ottomans at one point did manage to take the Saruhanid capital, razing it and killing the ruling Bey and his family. The realm was briefly turned plunged into anarchy, but Ottoman occupation (and subsequent Imperial and Aydinid co-occupation) managed to restore order quickly, if brutally.
By 1373, it had seemed the Manisa league was exhausted. Roman losses totalled well over 10,000 and the Candarids well over that. Saruhan was still mostly occupied and Aydin wasn’t in much of a position to do anything. Something had to be done to finish the war on favorable terms.
And luckily, was one option available but… well… it was a very uncertain gamble. You see, if one were to look closely, it was known that the Ottomans were also exhausted. Very exhausted. Troops movements were even more cautious and attack forces that once numbered near a thousand were now just a few hundred. Attacks by Janissaries were very rare, if unheard of by this time in the war. Therefore, it would be reasonable to assume that should another major battel be forced with heavy losses for the Ottomans, the league's own armies (whatever remained of them) would be unopposed as they marched to Bursa. But again, a very risky deal.
Emperor John, ever the ambitious man, decided to go for it, despite complaints by his advisors. Regardless of everything that happened, Romania hadn’t really lost much of anything, (discounting men, money and pride) and thus wasn’t in any danger of invasion by the Ottomans. However… the political ramifications of abandoning the allies of the empire in their time of need would be insane, so that couldn’t be done. Again, a very risky and tense situation. Fortunately events conspired to give the empire yet another break.
To the north the aging Tsar Ivan Alexander had died in early 1372 of a recurrence of plague, leaving the Bulgarian empire to his eldest son Michael who faced a potentially dangerous situation. See, under the efforts of his father, the Bulgarian state had managed to reverse its trend of decentralization, bringing the wily nobles under the jackboot of the monarchy. As one might expect, this wasn’t very popular for them, and rebellion was simmering. Ever astute, Tsar Michael knew he had to eliminate or at least neutralize the threat, and he had found an excellent excuse in Romania’s war. Should he offer his services to his brother in law (one John V of Romania), Bulgaria could send its more rowdy elites to die in some far off war and allow Michael the peace of mind needed to continue his father’s work. And should they actually manage to come back, they would find their estates weaker than in when they had left.
And so a message was dispatched to the emperor in Constantinople, informing him that Bulgaria sought to aid against the infidel (as was the popular opinion at the time of John’s war). John readily accepted and sent the messenger off as soon as possible. It was an offer simply too good to refuse. For John, this was an opportunity to attack the Ottomans in pitched battle while having the bulk of his troops out of harm’s way. And of course, refusing the offer of a brother in law to aid him in his service for God would look… difficult, despite the potential complaints that this made Romania look weak.
When the messenger returned to Michael the tsar immediately began preparing an army, using whatever excuse he could to press as many of the Bolyars into joining the war. Some stayed as that was inevitable, but the Tsar was successful in raising a decently sized army, roughly around 7,000 men or so, composed of many nobles and their retainers. By May, the Bulgarian army was ready and amassed at Varna where the Roman fleet was ready to transport them.
Michael’s plan worked masterfully. A combined army of Bulgarians, Romans, and other allied Turks marched from Sinope straight towards the Ottoman capital at Bursa. In desperation, the Ottomans pulled back everything they could and marched towards Bursa to meet the enemy. Once more pitched battle was inevitable, and this was just what the coalition wanted. The ensuing Battle of Bursa was an extremely bloody affair that saw heavy casualties on both sides and the death of the great general Murad, but it was ultimately a victory for the Manisa league. The city was promptly seized and taken in September. Suleyman Bey, knowing he was matched, sued for peace.
Peace saw the return of all unoccupied land and cessions of territory from the Ottomans towards all members of the coalition (sans Bulgaria, who was content with just looting as much as they can). As one might expect, the Empire and the Candarids took the most territory, seeing as they had done the bulk of the work. The Saruhanids, with their ruling bey and his sons having been slain in the defense of their land, had their territory peacefully divided between Romania and Aydin.
The Ottomans may have been crippled, but like many times before in Roman history, the fall of one enemy would lead to the rise of another, more powerful force. Before the ink was even dry, the neighboring Germiyanids launched an offensive against the more powerful Ottomans. Exhausted from a brutal war, the Beylik could do nothing against the onslaught of its new foe. In the years to come the Ottomans would be left a rump state, vassalized and at the mercy of the new power in Anatolia: The Germiyanids.
Once more, on paper the empire seemingly won big. It had regained land in Asia, lost for nearly a century now. But the army had been shredded, a good chunk of its treasury had been spent and her pride torn asunder. Weakness had been shown, and once more Romania was faced with the thought of facing disaster. For while the Ottomans had no chance of realistically invading and conquering, what of the Bulgarians? Or the Neapolitans? Or the Hungarians? Yet again, reform was needed.
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