Opinions on a venice TL

I would always love having people, especially Italians who can stop me if I get too ASB, following my TL. But I do not plan on going anywhere in the direction indicated in Cornelius' post so feel free to develop the idea if you want. My TL will probably involve the League conquering Venice, other way round.:D

Jim

Haha in that case yes i will do my own, Venice taken over, thats too contrary to this post:p! now...ASB? definition (oh my, i feel like such a noob now)
 
Haha in that case yes i will do my own, Venice taken over, thats too contrary to this post:p! now...ASB? definition (oh my, i feel like such a noob now)

Don't worry, I learned that the hard way.
ASB= Alien Space Bats which means something extremely improbable and near impossible, so much that something amazing such as Aliens would be needed to achieve it. In other words, over the top.

Good Luck with your TL, I'll look forward to it:D.
Jim

EDIT: Hmm, actualluy I think Venice would voluntarily join the loose union.
 
Don't worry, I learned that the hard way.
ASB= Alien Space Bats which means something extremely improbable and near impossible, so much that something amazing such as Aliens would be needed to achieve it. In other words, over the top.

Good Luck with your TL, I'll look forward to it:D.
Jim

EDIT: Hmm, actualluy I think Venice would voluntarily join the loose union.

HAHA wow thats fucked! ASB:p. thank u! yea they would but it would have to be a good offer, Venice was very proud and jealous to the extreme!
 
An arrangement with the Ottomans could be a fixed tribute in exchange for special privileges in the empire. These would include preferential treatment for carrying trade, the right for Venetians dwelling in the empire to be judged by their own laws, the right to maintain churches, and maybe representatives in key locations.

This could give the Venetians a serious trade empire in the Med. If a canal is built at Suez, the Venetians could end up being a rather significantly wealthy power - they would be able to control the India trade to Europe. A canal would also allow Ottoman power projection into the Indian Ocean, which might significantly alter the development of Europe.

There is also the Trans-Saharan trade terminating in Tripoli...

Anyway, if the Ottomans wane, the Venetians will have problems because a power like Britain is not going to be interested in protecting Venice, they'll want to steal Venetian trade, which is what happened in OTL.

This scenario would hugely alter the course of history, though, so it's hard to tell what powers will emerge. One would think though, that Venice will acquire a commanding position in Italy and the Adriatic..

I beg to differ. A venetian-wank is not impossible, only harder to realize, since Venice lacked the sheer amount of resources of other countries. Said this, there are some possibilities to explore. A few suggetions:

First: In order to keep her "colonial empire" in the mediterrean, Venice has to strike a deal with the ottomans. Without the sublime gate support, nothing can be obtained, or kept, in the eastern mediterrean. An alliance/vassalage with the ottoman empire would grant to Venice her status as main market for eastern goods. While the importance of mediterrean as commercial way declined after the discovery of Americas, it remained none the less a good avenue for any kind of wares. Moreover an alliance with the ottomans would probably save most of the venetian possessions in the east. Venice could even expand her empire conquering part of Dalmatia, Montenegro and Bosnia. With the riches gained from commerce, the manpower from Greece and Slavic possessions, the ottoman shield and a lot of shwred diplomacy, Venice should be able to keep at bay the other european nations.
All of this will need a lot of fine tuning, given the ottoman thrust toward Ungary and Austria, so maybe you'll want an ottoman empire more focused against Egypt and Persia (your man here is Abdul Hadi Pasha, I don't know enough about the matter).

Second: During the second half of the 16th century, Venice were pressured by the Pope to enforce strictier laws against eretics. Even if initially Venice resisted, in the following years the Doges had to cave in. In TTL this must be avoided. Venice have to stay a free place for everybody. This would lead to all the greater minds of the 16th and 17th century to seek shelter in Venice, making so the Serenissima republic a lighthouse for science and knowledge (Tip: a new universal library like the Alexandria'one, would be nice).

Third: In the 18th century the power of the ottomans will start to wane, so you'll need a new protector: the british fit the bill. Have the venetians strike an alliance with them. Backed by the british, venetia could begin to unify the peninsula, starting maybe with Naples and Sicily...
If eveything plays out nicely (and since it's a wank, why not) Venice could be master of a lot of Italy by the end of the 18th century. After the napoleonic storm, Venice could start to colonize Africa and maybe finance the Suez channel together with their old buddies, the ottomans.

To have colonies in america, Venice, or for the matter any other mediterrean nation, must have good relations with Spain, since they can cut off the access to atlantic quite easily. This, of course, goes against eveything I've written before. Even with Spain blessing, though, Venice will have to confine herself to the caribbean island ignored by the spanish. I would hearthly reccomand Barbados island, easy to defend, good for sugar cane and, simply put, beautyful :D.
 
An arrangement with the Ottomans could be a fixed tribute in exchange for special privileges in the empire. These would include preferential treatment for carrying trade, the right for Venetians dwelling in the empire to be judged by their own laws, the right to maintain churches, and maybe representatives in key locations.

This could give the Venetians a serious trade empire in the Med. If a canal is built at Suez, the Venetians could end up being a rather significantly wealthy power - they would be able to control the India trade to Europe. A canal would also allow Ottoman power projection into the Indian Ocean, which might significantly alter the development of Europe.

There is also the Trans-Saharan trade terminating in Tripoli...

Anyway, if the Ottomans wane, the Venetians will have problems because a power like Britain is not going to be interested in protecting Venice, they'll want to steal Venetian trade, which is what happened in OTL.

This scenario would hugely alter the course of history, though, so it's hard to tell what powers will emerge. One would think though, that Venice will acquire a commanding position in Italy and the Adriatic..


So the Ottomans will ally with Venice and allow them to have some colonies such as Montenegro and Bosnia for some special privileges?
and how would the ottomans help the Venetians in turn (as in, would they contribute military power?
 
So the Ottomans will ally with Venice and allow them to have some colonies such as Montenegro and Bosnia for some special privileges?
and how would the ottomans help the Venetians in turn (as in, would they contribute military power?
The privileges and the status of preferred commercial partner would guarantee to Venice a lucrative trade. Military speaking, in the 16th century the ottomans were THE military power in Europe and an alliance with them would make Venice reasonably safe.

AHP,
I've troubles with the ottoman expansion toward Europe, though. I was thinking if an ottoman empire projected toward Asia could easy the situation for Venice, at least diplomatically. Do you think is possible?

Besides, if the ottomans build a huge fleet like OTL, what would be Spain answer, since Venice won't partecipate and, probably, there won't be a Lepanto.
 
So the Ottomans will ally with Venice and allow them to have some colonies such as Montenegro and Bosnia for some special privileges?
and how would the ottomans help the Venetians in turn (as in, would they contribute military power?

Bosnia is actually not really accessible from the Adriatic - that is why it remained comfortably Ottoman while the Dalmatian coast was controlled by other powers. Bosnia would be useless to Venice, and anyway too important to the Ottomans.
 
The privileges and the status of preferred commercial partner would guarantee to Venice a lucrative trade. Military speaking, in the 16th century the ottomans were THE military power in Europe and an alliance with them would make Venice reasonably safe.

AHP,
I've troubles with the ottoman expansion toward Europe, though. I was thinking if an ottoman empire projected toward Asia could easy the situation for Venice, at least diplomatically. Do you think is possible?

Besides, if the ottomans build a huge fleet like OTL, what would be Spain answer, since Venice won't partecipate and, probably, there won't be a Lepanto.

If Ottoman expansion were per historical, it shouldn't have too much impact on Venice. But I don't see why Ottoman expansion can't be directed at Asia - as I mentioned, I think Selim I would have concentrated on Persia.
 
If Ottoman expansion were per historical, it shouldn't have too much impact on Venice. But I don't see why Ottoman expansion can't be directed at Asia - as I mentioned, I think Selim I would have concentrated on Persia.

So then the TL will have Venice allying itself with Selim I and give the ottomans preferential trade status. now Abdul, what if the ottoman empire was severely weakened by wars with the Safavid empire? throught the close relations, the venetians are aware that the ottomans are weakened, however the rest of europe does not and still fears this ally ship!? hmm i do like the sound of this, a slightly weaker ottoman empire will allow bigger balkan gains for Venice. were would these gains be made (were was ottoman influence weak in the bulkans that Venice could annex?)
 
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