Map Thread XXII
- Thread starter Balkanized U.S.A
- Start date
Karl der Große
Banned
Either that, or some hardcore genocide involving multiple world powers was committed. Because in OTL Turkey fought off multiple major nations and retained all of its core lands.
Russia went to war with Turkey recover the lands that it had taken from them during the Civil War. Greece jumped on board to try for the Megali Idea. They were both quite successful in the war, and its aftermath saw massive ethnic transfers of Greeks and other Christians from Turkey to Greece and Russia and of Turks and other Muslims from the annexed territories into Turkey. Turkey keeps Kurdistan because with their humiliating defeat in the war, they're forced to make more concessions towards minorities in the country to try and retain some semblance of stability while they handle the biggest refugee crisis to date ITTL.
Karl der Große
Banned
What distracted the other Great Powers from intervening in what is essentially Russia gaining control of the Dardanelles?
French Civil War, Germany and Italy are allied to Russia. Britain is really the only one available but are kept out by Hellenophilia among the government, opposition by the public who really don't want to start a war over Turkey, plus troubles in Ireland flaring up (resulting in the Kingdom of Ireland gaining parts of OTL Northern Ireland). The British are also dealing with implementing Indian Home Rule at this time and overall spread quite thin.
It would not be anywhere near majority Turkish. There's a bizarre tendency in scenarios discussing the plausibility of these kinds of scenarios to drastically overestimate the demographic problems (by retroactively applying the demographics of the area in 2020 to the area in 1920) while also downplaying the real issue which is that Greek control over the straits requires a strong Russia to basically keep the Turks permanently beaten down, and in that case there's no real reason for Russia to not simply take it for itself.
I'm only talking about a single thing: Istanbul. Not about the territories surrounding Aegean from the east, that's a separate thing and another massive problem. Don't quote me on this, but there's very much likely more people identifying as Muslims in Istanbul at that date than there were Greeks. And that's as in Greeks in the entirety of the world. Same thing but even worse for people identifying as Turkish.
Karl der Große
Banned
Exactly the thing that's not realized here. Early 20th century states didn't even have the industrial capacity to carry out that scale of genocide.
The population of the Istanbul Vilayet in 1914 was between 900k and 1 million, of which 55-60% were Muslim and a quarter Greeks, which is not even remotely close to "more Greeks than there were in the entire world." You're back projecting Istanbul's population in the present day to an era where it was only larger than Glasgow by 200,000 people.
We haven't been informed of the date when the war that the Ottomans/Turkey lose takes place, therefore I went with the safe route and assumed it was not immediately during nor immediately after WWI. There's no way to know we that are using Istanbul's population from the 20s, 40s, or 2000s, like a pretty modern conflict.
The perpetrators of the Rwandan genocide didn't have the industrial capacity of Nazi Germany but that didn't stop them from killing the people that they did. So..... yeah.
I don't think this is true for early 20th Century states either, Qing China and its Uyghur auxiliaries also managed the Dzungar Genocide without being an industrial society, and this was in the mid 1700s.
WHAT IF CALIGULA WON THE WAR AGAINST THE SEA?*
(or ROMAN ATLANTROPA)
and the subsequent collapse of Western Civilization.
(*Please don't take this too seriously)
The Continent of INTERMARE
in 2024, A.D.
Feel free to ask about lore!
Did Rome fall apart or are these a Diocletian-esque solution to overextension?
Both. The empire fell apart due to the massive ecological catastrophe (it became too weak to stay together) with the four parts being divided among the sons of Flavius Julius Augustus in 1998.
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I see five main entities in the imperial core (Hispania-Mauretania, Gallia, Italia, Greece-Asia and Egypt-Africa), which one isn't one of the parts?