Map project: alternate medieval Great Britain

[Upvoteanthology]

I feel like we should talk out the scenario before we start making posts, this isn't a map game or anything. Adding things now without conferring with other people will just lead to bad stuff happening.

 

[Fox-Fire]

I feel like we should talk out the scenario before we start making posts, this isn't a map game or anything. Adding things now without conferring with other people will just lead to bad stuff happening.

Yeah, first we have to even agree with a semi-concrete PoD. Still, this looks extremly promising.

 

[QueenofScots]

Ok, Id rather this be hashed out too.

 

[Upvoteanthology]

Okay, so no Roman PoD. We'd probably want something around the 1000's period, right? Maybe something with Cnut? Although, I'd personally prefer something in the 700's or 800's. It'd allow for some cool Saxon adoption of Welsh clan names, or something like that. It'd allow for a bit more creativity, but the same Heptarchy.

Also, I could draw up a loose Inkscape draft tomorrow, would people want to see that?

 

[TheseusDeuteros]

Wooow, this thread is way more active than I expected. Okay so let me respond to everything:

Well, the way I see it you can do one of two things:

-Post Norman collapse in power- the entire scenario's already a bit mad, so let's just assume that the Angevin Empire manages to break French power completely, but then sees her own royal power eroded trying to hold down Scotland, Ireland and the French territories. The latter eventually break off entirely to remain under the now essentially powerless French crown early on, and the rot sets so that even as the Royals remain nominal rulers of the whole Isles, paradoxically this becomes weakened to the point that it is the nobles with the actual power. Less adventurous perhaps, but I prefer it myself as it means that it's slightly less silly to use later hundred boundaries or what have you. Even so, I'd probably slaughter huge amounts of butterflies, but still.

Yeah I prefer this option too!

Oh and Kent was at one point a County Palatine after the Conquest. Throw in Ecclesiastical Principalities of Canterbury and Rochester, the Cinq Portes as a sort of Hansa analogue and the County Corporate of Canterbury and before you even get into such fanciful ideas as prince-Abbeys or using the Lathes of Kent rather than the county and it's already starting to get pretty broken up.

I never realised how much fun this could be, indeed! (Kent is awesome: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Kent_Administrative_Map_1832.png). I especially like your Cinque Ports idea!

I felt generous:

Also made the map a bit smaller.

Thanks Matt! However, considering the fact that we'll get a very detailed map with many small statelets in the end, we'll need to shift back to the big map at some point. However, this is good for the sketch.

Have you seen how many exclaves the place had?

Hahaha this looks great!

Note: This map is probably too late in the TL to be part of the main map.

[...]

I feel like we should talk out the scenario before we start making posts, this isn't a map game or anything. Adding things now without conferring with other people will just lead to bad stuff happening.

Yep, I totally agree.

Yeah, first we have to even agree with a semi-concrete PoD. Still, this looks extremly promising.

Ok, Id rather this be hashed out too.

Okay, so no Roman PoD. We'd probably want something around the 1000's period, right? Maybe something with Cnut? Although, I'd personally prefer something in the 700's or 800's. It'd allow for some cool Saxon adoption of Welsh clan names, or something like that. It'd allow for a bit more creativity, but the same Heptarchy.

Also, I could draw up a loose Inkscape draft tomorrow, would people want to see that?

1. Yeah well, we need to decide on whether we take a pre-1066 or post-1066 PoD... I think I favour a post-1066 one, to be able to include a number of cool OTL things. However (!), I also really like the idea of "something with Cnut" resulting in more political union between Scandinavia and the British Isles (it's not a coincidence that I included some of Scandinavia in the map). So, what do you guys think? Can we kind of do both, i.e. a similar Norman-led unification, whilst Cnutian Norway-Denmark keeps the north of England (Northumbria/York), for example? (So Cnut stays in power but is partly defeated by some William the Conqueror-type of Norman king?)

2. Any map ideas/drafts would be greatly appreciated ^_^

3. By the way, the PaintNet file of my sketch is way more useful than the png; does anyone know how I can share it?

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

It'd be fantastic if you guys would like to contribute!

Well, as for the timeline thing, yes, it would indeed be cool to start a collab TL! However, it shouldn't go too far back into time, since then we'd get a really divergent kind of Britain and that's not what I was aiming for.

OK, no Roman POD. The "Age of Arthur" (Dark Ages) goes sometimes between 410 and 599, so if you want a more solid POD that precedes the Normans, you'd have to stay between 600 and 1066.

Jutish states sounds like a cool idea! Slavic migration into Britain is a bit too divergent too my tastes, though, to be honest. Lord Hastur of Carcosa, what do you mean by reverse Saxon invasion...?

A british centered variation of Cnut, in which the continental Saxons swear allegiance to the Bretwalda rather than the Frankish king. That would probably split Germany in two or more major zones of influence, butterflying away the actual HRE. A more Angolosaxon Europe, I guess.

 

[The Germanator]

I might like to contribute. One suggestion I would have if the PoD is post-St. Columba is making Iona into a Prince-Abbacy that gradually expands across several Hebrides. Perhaps you could even make it into a kind of diarchy, with the Abbot of a male mother house and the Abbess of a female mother house having a kind of condominium.

 

[Lord Hastur of Carcosa]

I might like to contribute. One suggestion I would have if the PoD is post-St. Columba is making Iona into a Prince-Abbacy that gradually expands across several Hebrides. Perhaps you could even make it into a kind of diarchy, with the Abbot of a male mother house and the Abbess of a female mother house having a kind of condominium.

Just to make things more interesting, they may follow the Pelagian Heresy rather than the Cthulhic, I mean Catholic Faith.

 

[ElectricSheepNo54]

Just to make things more interesting, they may follow the Pelagian Heresy rather than the Cthulhic, I mean Catholic Faith.

Good idea! It would be interesting to have different religious groups in our alt-Britain, such as Pelagianism and maybe some proto-Protestant groups as well. We could even have Jewish enclaves maybe gifted by a benevolent Emperor after an expulsion from another country. We could also maybe have mercenary groups from parts of Europe settling in parts of the countryside to build their own towns in exchange for swearing allegiance to the Emperor. This project allows for some really interesting possibilities.

 

[Upvoteanthology]

Ooh, and once we get to the colonial age we can have new principalities in North Anerica...

 

[Zek Sora]

Does anyone mind if I toss in a Danelaw-y sort of thing?

It would be much smaller than the actual Danelaw, of course. Maybe East Anglia/a little bit of York.

 

[TheseusDeuteros]

Does anyone mind if I toss in a Danelaw-y sort of thing?

It would be much smaller than the actual Danelaw, of course. Maybe East Anglia/a little bit of York.

My idea would be that East Anglia and (all of) York are a "direct" part of the "Danelaw" i.e. ruled by Danes. (And other parts of the British Isles may be inhabited by Norse-Gaels or part of a North Sea Empire-esque thing, but not particularly Danish.)

 

[Fox-Fire]

Ooh, and once we get to the colonial age we can have new principalities in North Anerica...

I always wondered..."What a HRE world or continent map would look like?"