Lands of Red and Gold, Act II

[The Sandman]

I'm somewhat curious as to Patjimunra art and clothing styles; unless I missed it, I didn't really see much to give me an idea of what those might look like.

One thing that the Patjimunra would love, assuming it makes it there, is wasabi. Other similar spices (mustard, horseradish, etc.) as well, but wasabi is notable because the Patjimunra lands might be able to cultivate it, something apparently only possible in a handful of locations even in Japan.

Well, unless they already have a decent selection of spices that hit the nose the same way that spicy peppers/peppercorns hit the mouth. Not sure if they do or not, though.

I'm also guessing that they'd be especially big into honey cultivation, even after sugar starts to be imported in large quantities, because honey is better-suited for making sweet-spicy glazes and has a wider range of flavors than sugar.

The chances of them remaining independent, of course, are virtually non-existent, so which European nation colonizes them is going to be a major factor in their future development. Assuming that they aren't colonized by Maori adventurers, who would find it both an easier and closer target than the Nyalananga River states while still being highly lucrative.

Has their use of coal given anyone in the Five Rivers the idea to look for supplies of their own? Being able to shift large amounts of wood from use as charcoal to use as all the other things you can make with wood, to say nothing of shifting that land to other crops altogether, would be a major incentive to try it.

It also sounds like donkeys may be an even bigger deal when introduced to Aururia than horses were. Especially once they learn about mules and the breeding thereof.

 

[mojojojo]

[8] Variants of this tale about Crow bringing fire are widespread among various historical Aboriginal peoples.


Thoughts?

Corvids do lend themselves very well to trickster stories. What role (if any) do the multitude of native parrots play in the cultures of Australia in this TL.

Also, have any started entering the European pet trade?

 

[Archangel]

Nice update Jared.

What FDW said.

 

[Jonathan Edelstein]

Excellent as always.

Caste systems rarely harden without opposition: in the society that the Patjimunra appear to have been partly modeled after, anti-caste religious movements arose with some frequency. I wonder if there's anything similar among the Patjimunra and whether Christian missionaries will use the caste system as a wedge.

 

[Jared]

I didn't know "masochism" was another word for "deliciousness".

My ancestry is as much Scottish as it is anything (other than mongrel), but even I know that Scottish cuisine was developed based on the principle of "I dare you to eat this."

Hmm. Providing some part of their culture survives long enough, I'm guessing the Patjimunra, or at least the Gidhay caste, will take to steam engines like sacred ducks to water...

That they would. They're also sitting in the area which in OTL became Australia's largest steel producing region, thanks to the coal. There's a great deal of potential there (though they would need to import iron ore from somewhere).

I'm somewhat curious as to Patjimunra art and clothing styles; unless I missed it, I didn't really see much to give me an idea of what those might look like.

I didn't go into their appearance in any detail in this instalment, since the post was already long enough, but that will be covered when encounters with the Patjimunra are shown. (Probably in a couple of posts: the next post has a working title of "The Closure", which suggests that it will cover somewhere slightly further north.)

One thing that the Patjimunra would love, assuming it makes it there, is wasabi. Other similar spices (mustard, horseradish, etc.) as well, but wasabi is notable because the Patjimunra lands might be able to cultivate it, something apparently only possible in a handful of locations even in Japan.

They will love them all. It's the combination of flavours, not just any one source of heat. Chillis are the hottest overall, but they work together. If wasabi can be cultivated in the Hunter Valley, then they would certainly welcome it.

Fun fact: even in OTL, sweet peppers (the mountain pepper variety) are exported to Japan to flavour wasabi. There would be a certain irony if in this TL, the wasabi is exported the other way.

I'm also guessing that they'd be especially big into honey cultivation, even after sugar starts to be imported in large quantities, because honey is better-suited for making sweet-spicy glazes and has a wider range of flavors than sugar.

They will love honey, as soon as someone gets around to importing honeybees (the native bees being unsuitable for domestication). They already do a bit in the way of glazes using wattle gum, but honey will be superior. Honeybees will also do very well around Aururian farms, since the variety of crops used means that there's something in flower almost all year round.

The chances of them remaining independent, of course, are virtually non-existent, so which European nation colonizes them is going to be a major factor in their future development. Assuming that they aren't colonized by Maori adventurers, who would find it both an easier and closer target than the Nyalananga River states while still being highly lucrative.

The spices do unfortunately make them a rather large target. Though that also means that the various European powers will be keen to fight each other to keep them out. And the Patjimunra do have goods to buy weapons with (from Europeans or from the Nuttana).

The Maori will no doubt raid - the spicelands will be one of their major targets. Colonization would be harder, though - the Patjimunra are one of the two largest kingdoms on the east coast, and the Maori don't have much in the way of technological advantage (unless they take up iron working faster than the Patjimunra, which might be possible).

My bet would be most likely on a European power - the Dutch or English being the obvious early prospects, with French or Swedish a vague possibility if the Patjimunra hold out for longer.

Has their use of coal given anyone in the Five Rivers the idea to look for supplies of their own? Being able to shift large amounts of wood from use as charcoal to use as all the other things you can make with wood, to say nothing of shifting that land to other crops altogether, would be a major incentive to try it.

A few people in the Five Rivers may have had the idea, but they won't have had much luck finding any coal. In Australia, the large majority of of the coal is on the east. (See here.) There's one small deposit in the Five Rivers (the Oakland basin), but I don't think that this is exploitable with their level of technology. (Even in the modern era, only one seam is considered commercially exploitable.)

There's various inferior brown coal deposits in Yadji territory, but even most of those are in the eastern parts of their empire which endure regular rebellions. Which isn't conducive to exploiting them.

It also sounds like donkeys may be an even bigger deal when introduced to Aururia than horses were. Especially once they learn about mules and the breeding thereof.

Both horses and donkeys will have their uses. Donkeys much more for the everyday worker, who will find them invaluable. Horses will be more expensive and, while they will be used for a variety of purposes, the main early ones will be military, communications, and longer-distance transportation.

Corvids do lend themselves very well to trickster stories. What role (if any) do the multitude of native parrots play in the cultures of Australia in this TL.

There's various stories, mostly about the different kinds of cockatoos. Who also have similar trickster attributes, for the most part.

Also, have any started entering the European pet trade?

Not yet. It will happen eventually, particularly after Sport and Perch make it back to Europe with Prince Rupert and inspires people about what other exotic pets might be available in the Land of Gold.

Caste systems rarely harden without opposition: in the society that the Patjimunra appear to have been partly modeled after, anti-caste religious movements arose with some frequency. I wonder if there's anything similar among the Patjimunra and whether Christian missionaries will use the caste system as a wedge.

Have you been reading ahead in the script?

I touched on (briefly) some of the discontent with the caste system, linked to the spread of Plirism. This will only get worse. Christianity may shake things up even more.

The system is also going to be thrown into upheaval with population movements, which will be much more frequent in the next few years. The east coast is particularly prone to population movement ping-pong - one population suffers disease or famine, pushes north or south, and in turn produces another population movement in the same direction. This has already started with one people pushing into the southern fringes of Patjimunra territory. It won't be the last population movement, either.

The consequences of that will also shake up the caste system, since there will be so many non-Patjimunra living there (including the rulers) who will not abide by caste restrictions.

And yes, the Patjimunra were modelled on a variety of real-world caste systems, with various other invented details thrown in. As well as the obvious ones from the subcontinent, there's also some aspects of Japan, and a little bit of inspiration from the Mande societies in West Africa.

 

[mojojojo]

Will European cuisine be taking a turn for the warmer due to all the new sources of heat in this TL?

 

[Jared]

Will European cuisine be taking a turn for the warmer due to all the new sources of heat in this TL?

Eventually, yes. Though there will be suspicion for a while; as per OTL, Europeans were resistant to a lot of new foods, and in some cases even strong flavourings.

But English upper-class cuisine will have something of a strong fashion for sweet peppers after Prince Rupert makes it back, as will the new Duchy of Munster in Germany. The Dutch will consume some as well. In the longer term, much of the pepper trade will be replaced by the (hotter) sweet pepper trade, which will spread across Europe.

When enough people figure out how to grow sweet peppers in Europe itself (Brittany and Cornwall in particular), then of course things will be even more potent.

And on another note, does anyone feel up to drawing a more detailed map of Daluming (*Coffs Harbour and environs)? It will be helpful for the next post, which is called The Closure and, coincidentally, is about Daluming.

 

[Grouchio]

I found some really good background music to listen to whilst reading all of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHSRv4Hsxn0

 

[mojojojo]

Eventually, yes. Though there will be suspicion for a while; as per OTL, Europeans were resistant to a lot of new foods, and in some cases even strong flavourings.

But English upper-class cuisine will have something of a strong fashion for sweet peppers after Prince Rupert makes it back, as will the new Duchy of Munster in Germany. The Dutch will consume some as well. In the longer term, much of the pepper trade will be replaced by the (hotter) sweet pepper trade, which will spread across Europe.

When enough people figure out how to grow sweet peppers in Europe itself (Brittany and Cornwall in particular), then of course things will be even more potent.

I bet the Germans will come up with some awesome spicy wursts. I don't know which British culinary specialty heat would work best with

 

[Jared]

I found some really good background music to listen to whilst reading all of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHSRv4Hsxn0

Yes, that is a pretty good choice.

A loop of Yothu Yindi clips would also work. (Here and here are a couple to get you started - I think others in this thread have also previously linked to Yothu Yindi, Warumpi, and Christine Anu.)

The irony, of course, is that the allohistorical farming Aururians would look on didgeridoo style of music as primitive and barbaric... it's just the closest OTL equivalent to what the farmers of TTL would have. (Aside from their brass band section.)

I bet the Germans will come up with some awesome spicy wursts. I don't know which British culinary specialty heat would work best with

As well as lots of new spicy wursts, maybe someone will make an early invention of currywurst?

The British Cumberland sausage will be a spicier beast ITTL. The other thing is that sweet peppers can be used in sweeter dishes than traditional peppers (they are, after all, sweet peppers). I'm not sure how well they'd go with, say, spotted dick, but I've seen them used with fruit surprisingly well - in very small doses, of course.

The other thing which will be good with them - probably first come up with in Germany, since they will take to potatoes sooner - is sweet pepper potato cakes. They go particularly well with lemon myrtle (another imported spice) for that purpose. That's something I have a recipe for, but I'm wary of posting it since I think some people are still hungry from the Christmas special.

 

[Sam R.]

Patjimunra skin divisions sound suspiciously like the actual skill hierarchies present in contemporary Hunter Valley life.

The Patjimunra live almost exclusively in the Kuyal Valley [Hunter Valley], together with the neighbouring coastal regions. Their largest city is Gogarra [Newcastle, NSW], at the mouth of the Kuyal; the city is the largest simply because their relatively primitive nautical technology makes it much easier to bring food and trade goods downriver rather than upriver, and so that city benefits the most. The largest other cities along the Kuyal are Wonnhuar [Raymond Terrace], Kinhung [Maitland], and Awaki [Whittingham]. Guringi [Denman] is the westernmost town of any size, and is the start of the main overland trade roads with the Five Rivers. All of the cities and towns along the Kuyal have strong city walls, which are used as much for flood control as for defence.

Surely you mean their largest city is Kinhung, due to its capacity to block supply to Gogarra; and, as Gogarra has no adequate permanent water supply. http://www.hunterwater.com.au/About-Us/Our-Organisation/Our-History--Heritage/ Check where Oakhampton is. The Kuyal is tidal a long way up, and Gogarra's protective swamps don't supply water. Gogarra is a thirsty town. Tell me how Gogarra solved the water supply problem and you'll probably know more about Patjimunra engineering than you want to. I'd suggest doing what the skinless did: http://www.abc.net.au/local/photos/2012/03/30/3467742.htm Put it on the great tonking hill, called by the skinless, "The Hill." I'd suggest that's where the city of Gogarra is located, due to its defencibility and lack of flooding. Most of [Newcastle] is probably Gogarra's immediate agricultural hinterland / local coal field. Though that may be mined out for surface works and the problem of sea flooding will have deterred other works.

In comparison Kinhung is the actual capital of the Kuyal's towns. It has an independent water supply, and while it may suffer from flooding, it has a great supply of duck and is very fertile. Kinhung's position on the river is still mostly navigable for greater vessels the skinless pass up the Kuyal, but yet she can block travel south by land or river.

In fact Kinhung's economic and political centrality is so transparent, Gogarra the city of cisterns must have sacred, military or economic reasons for its power. Particularly as it is located on the edge rather than the centre of Patjimunra power.

Sorry to outline water supply as a major problem.
yours,
Sam R.

 

[Beedok]

I want to visit this timeline for the food.

 

[mojojojo]

* * *

As with their social structure, the Patjimunra religion developed from their ancient Gunnagalic heritage, but it has been adapted to their new homeland. The old Gunnagalic mythology included a considerable number of beings of power and associated tales about them. The Patjimunra have translated this into a celestial pantheon of twelve deities, the six greater and six lesser gods, each of whom has their representatives among the priestly caste.

The Patjimunra deities are viewed as paired; each greater god has their counterpart among the lesser. Broadly speaking, the greater gods are seen as more distant and forces of nature, with the lesser gods being more concerned with the affairs of men [7].

The twelve deities are:

(I) Water Mother (greater). In ancient Gunnagalic mythology this referred to the deity who was the Nyalananga (River Murray). Among the Patjimunra, this name has been transferred to a goddess who dwells within the waters of the Kuyal and its tributaries. With the frequent, prodigious flooding of this river system, the Water Mother is seen as powerful and often detached from human affairs: her waters bring both life and death with equal indifference.

(i) Crow / The Winged God (lesser). This god is seen as the most cunning and unpredictable of all deities. He is mercurial in his moods, rarely dwelling in one place for long, and often meddling with human affairs. Fickle in his attention, he often plays tricks on people, though sometimes he rewards them too. Many of Crow’s associated tales describe him playing tricks on those who are seen as lacking in virtue, particularly those who are too proud or lack generosity. Some tales say that it was the Winged God who first stole the secret of fire from the Fire Brothers and taught it to men [8], although other tales credit the Sisters of Hearth and Home for the same feat.

(II(a) and II(b)) Fire Brothers (greater). The Fire Brothers are twin gods which represent the creative and destructive aspects of fire: destruction from what is fed to fire, and creation from the regrowth after fires have passed. The Patjimunra view these as two halves of the one whole deity.

(ii(a) and ii(b)) Sisters of Hearth and Home (lesser). These goddesses are viewed as maintaining the fires which are used for cooking and heat, and by extension for all aspects of life within houses. The names of the sisters are descended from two unrelated beings in traditional Gunnagalic mythology, but they have been twinned together in the Patjimunra religion, perhaps to balance the Fire Brothers.

(III) Green Lady (greater). The wandering creator of life from the soil. She is viewed as responsible for the vitality of all plant life, and in a land where even the best-watered lands can experience drought or soil infertility, she is pictured as a wanderer who moves where she wills regardless of human concerns.

(iii) Man of Bark (lesser). The personification of trees, the source of all the goodness that comes from in wattleseeds, wattle gum, the soil replenishing characteristics of wattle farming, and more broadly associated with all forms of timber and nuts. The patron of construction and of transportation; the latter is because of his association with the development of timber boats and travois which are used to move goods.

(IV) Lord of Lightning (greater). The ruler of storms, bringer of thunder and (obviously) lightning. This god is seen as a distant force whose storms can wreak havoc, and who follows his own whims in how he brings them. He is also, more paradoxically, seen as the patron deity of coal, which the Patjimunra believe to be lightning which has been trapped within the earth.

(iv) Windy (lesser). The goddess of wind and (non-stormy) rain. She is viewed as more benevolent than the Lord of Lightning, bringing nourishing rain to the land, but also capable of being angered and withholding rains or sending punishing winds, particularly those that fan bushfires.

(V) Nameless Queen (greater). She who must not be named, lest speaking her name invoke her presence. The collector of souls. The queen of death.

(v) The Weaver (lesser). The judge of the dead, the arbiter of fate. This god is also known by the euphemism of the White God, a name which developed because of the association of a white (blank) tapestry before he wove the fates of men into it in colour. This deity is also more generally associated with law and justice; advocates swear to be faithful to the White God.

(VI) Rainbow Serpent (greater). The shaper of the earth, driver up of mountains, carver of gullies, punisher of wrongdoers, and patron of healing. He is sometimes described as the creator of all. In ancient Gunnagalic mythology, the Rainbow Serpent was also associated with bringing rain, but in the Patjimunra pantheon that role has been taken by other deities.

(vi) Eagle (lesser). The Eagle is seen as watching over all the world, seeing all and knowing all. This is symbolised (naturally) by the wedge-tailed eagle (Aquila audax) which flies everywhere; while most of the ancient totemic connections to animals have been lost among the Patjimunra, they still see eagles as sacred. Travellers often invoke the Eagle for her guidance and protection on their journey (sometimes together with the Man of Bark). Scholars and teachers also see themselves as guided by the Eagle.

Each of the twelve deities has their own associated myths, practices, and duties for their priests to perform. In most cases, there are also festivals and other services held in the deity’s honour, which the people are expected to attend. Apart from priests (and advocates, who are also of the priestly caste), most Patjimunra do not regard a particular deity as their patron, and will attend ceremonies for most deities, as time permits.


Thoughts?

Do any of the Australian cultures of this TL have any great mythological epics that will captivate the outside world the way Norse and Greco-Roman mythology did?

 

[Jared]

Patjimunra skin divisions sound suspiciously like the actual skill hierarchies present in contemporary Hunter Valley life.

Some things manage to transcend timelines.

(Actually, that was mostly a coincidence. I didn't have anything in particular in mind for the skill hierarchies other than coal mining being relatively high-status.)

Surely you mean their largest city is Kinhung, due to its capacity to block supply to Gogarra; and, as Gogarra has no adequate permanent water supply. http://www.hunterwater.com.au/About-Us/Our-Organisation/Our-History--Heritage/

I didn't realise that the water supply at Gogarra was that bad. But thanks for the links - that makes having a major city there rather more difficult.

I had imagined Gogarra as the greatest city for a combination of religious reasons - the mouth of the Kuyal being the most sacred part, plus lots of surface coal - and transport reasons, i.e. it's easier to ship surplus food downriver than upriver.

But the water supply problem is hard to overcome, and Kinhung offers many of the same advantages. Only the small area downriver of Kinhung would be more difficult to supply food than for Gogarra (and even that's not so bad with the tides). The sacred river mouth is one thing, but dying of thirst is another.

Consider this being amended to Kinhung being the capital and Gogarra the downriver outpost; once a sacred place where abundant surface goal was gathered, but now just an agricultural town that is spared being a backwater only because some of the skinless traders stop there rather than going even further upriver.

I want to visit this timeline for the food.

Writing it has also increased my interest in bushfood cuisine; I now cook a bit using bush spices. 'Tis a pity that Australian spices aren't more available overseas.

Do any of the Australian cultures of this TL have any great mythological epics that will captivate the outside world the way Norse and Greco-Roman mythology did?

The Yadji have their ten classical works of literature, the most recent being written on the eve of the last great battle with Nuyts' would-be conquistadors. They would probably attract some interest overseas if translated into English or French.

Plirism has its sacred texts, of which The Great Dreaming may also garner some interest. So might The Endless Road, though that's more of a Plirite equivalent to the Bible.

For the Five Rivers... that depends if you think the rest of the world would be captivated by reading about the sacred origins of football.

 

[Falecius]

For the Five Rivers... that depends if you think the rest of the world would be captivated by reading about the sacred origins of football.

I can imagine an incredibly large lot of people that would not read anything* else.
*Anything that was written earlier than ten years ago, exceptions being made for novels that provided a basis for a new-ish film.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Ah, but how socially acceptable is it to be caught reading scriptures of a heretical sect? There might need to be more (o)ecumenism in the religion of Football to pull that off.

 

[Jared]

Lands of Red and Gold Interlude #8: The Foundation

This post is a slightly belated Invasion Day special (known in some circles as Australia Day). As with all of these specials, it should be taken in a light-hearted vein, although the gist is accurate.

* * *

Pietersen: The Prince fancies himself a wit.
Lord Nunyah: He is half right.
- Gunnamalong, “In Praise of Silence”, Day IV, Act III, Scene II

* * *

Taken from a discussion thread posted on the allohistory.com message board.
Note: all dates are in the Gregorian calendar. All message times are listed in what would be the equivalent of North American Eastern Standard Time.

Thread Title: WI No Red Yam

*

Original Post

From: Kaiser Maximilian IV
Time: 19 August, 6:03 PM

This wot-if is inspired by Shaved Ape’s excellent timeline For Want of a Yam. For those of you who have been unlucky enough not to read it, Shaved Ape posited a divergence where the lesser yam evolved in 200 BC rather than 1400 AD. Since this is a tropically-suitable plant, agriculture spread northward along the Tohu Coast [tropical Queensland] over the next few centuries, rather than being confined to the subtropics of Aururia. That led to contact with New Guinea and the East Indies, and, well, maybe you should just read the rest yourself here.

I’m wondering about wot would happen if instead of having the lesser yam emerge earlier, the red yam never evolves in Aururia in the first place, or is wiped out by some super-plant disease or something (fungal rot, presumably). This changes things a whole lot, since the red yam was such an essential part of Aururian founding agriculture. In fact, it still is a vital crop today. It also wipes out the lesser yam entirely, though that’s less of a problem since the sweet potato would still be arriving around 1300-1400 AD to replace it.

This is a big divergence, of course, and I’m not sure how it all of it would develop. In general, I think that this means a slower development of agriculture within Aururia. I don’t know enough about other Aururian crops. Hopefully someone else who knows more about agriculture can pitch in.

Obviously, with a divergence this far back, the butterfly-maximum crowd will argue that history as we know it has been wiped out. I’m not interested in that sort of premise. For the sake of argument, let’s just say that the butterflies are caged until there’s contact with the wider world (Maori, Dutch, whoever).

Wot do you think, folks?

*

From: ZigZag
Time: 19 August, 6:54 PM

I don’t know a whole lot about the subject either, but since when has that ever stopped me?

According to my vague memories of Julius Sanford, the red yam was vital to Aururian agriculture. Wipe that out, and agriculture doesn’t get started at all. No Five Rivers cradle of civilization. No Aururian crops at all. The whole continent remains hunter-gatherer until someone else arrives. So you’re looking at a Maori Aururia. Or, if for some unlikely reason the Maori don’t settle, a Dutch Aururia.

*

From: Neck Romancer
Time: 19 August, 7:08 PM

Oh my gods! You’ve just rewritten the entire history of modern cuisine! No cornnarts [wattles], no black bread, no lemon verbena, no sweet peppers. No sweet peppers! This isn’t a what-if, it’s a tragedy!

*

From: The Profound Wanderer
Time: 19 August, 7:10 PM

This is huge. Unrecognisable world-huge. And unlikely, in my not so humble opinion, but worth exploration as a thought-experiment scenario.

My first thoughts:

The Mediterranean is going to be an emptier, almost unrecognisable place. Red yams – and cornnarts, assuming that they’re gone too – were tailor-made for Mediterranean agriculture. The Sicilian Agricultural Revolution is gone. Probably the Advent Revolution goes with it. Spain is poorer. The Ottomans lose the eighteenth-century population boom. Egypt is less affected, since their irrigation always let them grow more water-intensive crops, but the rest of the North African coast will be depleted.

The Cape ends up as a backwater for much, much longer. They can probably substitute some European crops for Aururian crops as a victualling station, but that’s all the Cape will be. Kunduri is gone, naturally. Unless tobacco can be grown there instead; a question I leave to those better agriculturally informed than me.

*

From: Patrician
Time: 19 August, 7:29 PM

Good to see a what-if which the prime poster puts some thought into the consequences. Too many what-ifs these days are just one-sentence vacuous questions.

For the premise of this thread, as with previous posters I’m not very botanically minded, but are there other domesticates which may take the role of red yams? It seems a tad preposterous that the absence of one crop can cut short an entire continent’s worth of agriculture. The early Aururians grew other crops besides the red yam.

*

From: AlyssaBabe
Time: 19 August, 7:44 PM

Originally written by Neck Romancer:
> No sweet peppers! This isn’t a what-if, it’s a tragedy!

Food without sweet peppers is like James without Foolsom!

*

From: Special Jimmy
Time: 19 August, 8:00 PM

@Patrician
This site needs to stop worshipping Julius Sanford. The man has a lot to answer for after writing Cannon, Clocks & Crops. Being a whale biologist does not make him a resident expert on everything. He’s certainly no expert in history and botany.

Yes, agriculture will still develop in a red yam-less Aururia. Slower than in real history. But it will appear.

Aururia has a veritable host of native crops. Staple crops, I mean, not just flavourings such as sweet peppers or lemon verbena or what have you.

Let’s see, there’s half a dozen species of cornnarts, murnong, another yam [warran yam], Dutch flax (really Aururian, you know, despite the name), purslane, luto [bush pear], weeping rice. All domesticable crops. Plenty to start off agriculture in Aururia. Weeping rice looks especially promising.

*

From: Response Set
Time: 19 August, 8:01 PM

I yam fed up with these agricultural divergences. Time after thyme, the board is peppered with these repetitive posts. I hunger for variety. Can’t you folks cook up some more interesting threads?

*

From: Max Pedant
Time: 19 August, 8:02 PM

@ZigZag

Agriculture will start later without the red yam. That is a given. But it is not the only domesticate. Aururia will still have farmers. What those farmers do will look rather different.

My own thought is that the red yam pre-empted the domestication of cereals. Aururian agriculture is almost unique in its absence of cereals among its prime crops. Andean agriculture may not have had any, since the evidence for maize is ambiguous. Except for that, only New Guinean agriculture lacked cereals completely.

Why did Aururia not produce any cereals? Except for weeping rice, but that is a minor crop domesticated late in the piece. I think that the red yam was so productive a plant, even when growing wild, that Aururian hunter-gatherers did not collect much in the way of grains. So there was no unconscious selection to turn wild Aururian cereals into domesticated crops. The red yam got in the way.

If the red yam is gone, cereals become more important. There is a wild species of Aururian millet which the prehistoric hunter-gatherers used for food. If that is being gathered more frequently due to the non-existence of red yams, then it is a good place to start for allohistorical Aururian agriculture. Once it gets going, then murnong and cornnarts will follow later.

There you have the beginning of an alternate agriculture. Slower than the real historical one, naturally, but still viable.

*

From: Mark Antony the Guide
Time: 19 August, 8:16 PM

Originally written by Neck Romancer:
> Oh my gods! You’ve just rewritten the entire history of
> modern cuisine! No cornnarts, no black bread, no lemon
> verbena, no sweet peppers. No sweet peppers! This isn’t
> a what-if, it’s a tragedy!

Spices have near-universal human appeal. Even if agriculture starts later in Aururia, or even if it’s the Maori who introduce agriculture, they will still discover, and love, the spices.

*

From: AlyssaBabe
Time: 19 August, 8:23 PM

Originally written by Mark Antony the Guide:
> Spices have near-universal human appeal.

So my sweet pepper and lemon verbena potato cakes are still safe in this timeline? I can dig that.

*

From: Elyk
Time: 19 August, 9:34 PM

Originally written by Special Jimmy:
> Plenty to start off agriculture in Aururia. Weeping
> rice looks especially promising.

Partner, weeping rice is in the wrong place to start off Aururian agriculture. It’s found up and down the east coast, in higher rainfall areas, but not in the drier regions where agriculture began. It needs a good drenching every year to grow properly.

The whole advantage of the red yam was that it was drought tolerant, a vital quality in kicking off Aururian farming. The rainfall is so variable that drought tolerance is essential. The red yam did that better than anything else other than some of the cornnarts, and not even all of them.

Originally written by Max Pedant:
> Aururia will still have farmers. What those farmers
> do will look rather different.

Sanford thought not. While I think that too many members take him as gospel on all counts, he made a great deal of sense at times. Here, he talked about Aururia without red yams or Mesoamerica without maize as being places that would not be independent centres of plant domestication.

That would rather crimp their development, I think, if they have to wait for agriculture to spread from elsewhere. Aururia would be a pre-agricultural society. At most, they’d be like the Eastern Agricultural Complex in North America. Viz, a very limited crop selection, still reliant on some wild foods, and producing only a few small chiefdoms.

*

From: Max Pedant
Time: 19 August, 10:17 PM

@Elyk
I think you are being quite pessimistic about Aururia’s agricultural potential. The Eastern Agricultural Complex produced only a couple of crops which are still used today – sunflowers and squashes – and both of those were also domesticated elsewhere – Mesoamerica. Aururia gave us so much more, including three of the twenty biggest crops in the world today – red yams, cornnarts and murnong. Losing the red yam has major ramifications around the globe, but it does not prevent agriculture from starting in Aururia.

The plants which are left still offer enough to agriculture to develop more slowly. I have outlined one possible route, that involving the native Aururian millet. There are other potential paths to agriculture, such as the weeping rice route which Special Jimmy has suggested. The latter route would of course mean that agriculture would be confined to the east coast until murnong and cornnarts are domesticated, but it does not prevent agriculture entirely.

I agree that they would be slower to develop technology. Bronze Age, not Iron Age. The Yaroan civilization [1] may not develop at all, although they had their own local crops – a yam and one other root vegetable – which could be enough to get things started.

*

From: The Ginger Menace
Time: 19 August, 10:54 PM

Wow. Warumpi Ngunna will have to come up with some new lyrics in this timeline. “Red Dirt Dreaming” won’t sound the same at all!

*

From: Hasta la Vista
Time: 19 August, 11:05 PM

Ginger, really? This thread is about a massive divergence several thousand years ago, which will reshape the history of the entire globe, and your contribution is to wonder about how your favourite band is going to rework a few lyrics?

Why don’t you just start a thread about how the Edge Crash [Yellowstone] supervolcano erupts in 1802, wiping out all life in North America, and then wonder about the effects on Alleghanian cuisine in the twentieth century?

*

From: The Ginger Menace
Time: 19 August, 11:11 PM

Because in that timeline, I’d still be smarter than the average ginger.

*

From: Oliver James
Time: 20 August, 12:09 AM

@Hasta la Vista

Never mind what the Edge Crash supervolcano would do to cuisine; the effects of this divergence on cuisine are just about unimaginable! If Sanford and Elyk are right, this’s wiped out a whole continent’s worth of agriculture.

It’s like imagining cooking without New World crops: no tomatoes, potatoes, chilli peppers, chocolate, bell peppers, cashews, peanuts, maize, pineapples, passionfruit, sweet potato, pumpkin, most kinds of beans, avocado. And on and on. The list is almost endless.

Now take the same thing for Aururian contributions to cuisine.

The red yam is gone (obviously), but that’s only the start. Forget the other food crops for a moment. No jeeree [lemon tea] as your calming evening drink. No kunduri to smoke. No duranj [gum cider] to drink, either.

As for cooking, well, half of my favourite recipes are now gone. No cornnarts and no murnong, so there’s a big problem right there. So much for black flour or roasted murnong. But there’s now much less flavour in the world. Bye-bye the sweet peppers – all of them. A pepper by any other name could never taste so sweet. No lemon verbena either. Or cinammon verbena. No ovasecca [desert raisin]. Alas, poor white ginger, I knew thee well. Farewell rotunda [native thyme-mint], we shared many happy times.

I think that in this timeline I’d spend most of my time moping.

*

From: Neville Maximum
Time: 20 August, 12:24 AM

The cuisine in this timeline’s Alleghania will be more like Cali-fornication.

*

From: Nobody Important
Time: 20 August, 12:28 AM

This topic is making me hungry.

*

From: Neville Maximum
Time: 20 August, 12:35 AM

@Nobody Important
Better hurry and cook up some roast murnong flavoured with rotunda and cracked sweet pepper, just to celebrate that you still can!

*

From: Lopidya
Time: 20 August, 12:41 AM

Originally written by Oliver James:
> I think that in this timeline I’d spend most of my time moping.

It gets worse. I just realised that there’s no wineberries [2] in this timeline either. So no blue wine. There goes Christmas.

*

From: Elyk
Time: 20 August, 7:14 AM

Originally written by Max Pedant:
> I agree that they would be slower to develop technology.
> Bronze Age, not Iron Age. The Yaroan civilization
> may not develop at all, although they had their own local
> crops – a yam and one other root vegetable – which could
> be enough to get things started.

I don’t like repeating myself, partner, but the red yam was essential. The other crops are mighty useful ones to have around today, but they weren’t what kicked things off. Without the red yam, you’re not going to get all of the first crops needed for agriculture together in the right place.

Not just Sanford says that. Look at Edelstein’s work on the archaeology of Aururian agriculture. Red yams were the first crops needed everywhere. Not just on the Nyalananga, but among the Yaora as well. The Yaora had other crops which they developed later, sure, but nothing happened with those crops until red yams came along from the east.

Take out the red yam, and all of that potential is gone. Yes, cornnarts are good staple crops, but no one is going to start agriculture by domesticating a tree. That hasn’t happened anywhere. The generation time and effort is too long.

The no-red-yam divergence date means we’re looking at what happens when the Maori visit Aururia and bring agriculture with them.

*

From: Mtshutshumbe
Time: 20 August, 9:21 AM

You've butterflied away Plirism. You bastard.

To be serious, Africa in this timeline is going to be a weird place. No Plirism. No noroons [emus]. As The Profound Wanderer suggested, the Cape will be unrecognisable, but that’s just the start. Only the start.

What will fill the vacuum created by an absence of Plirism? To say nothing of a slower spread of the literacy that came alongside it. At a guess, this means that Islam would penetrate much further into Africa than it did already, eventually spreading to most of the continent, barring perhaps a few Christian enclaves. The Dar al-Islam may become the largest religion in the world.

North Africa is a whole new ball game too. Probably a game with both fewer players and fewer spectators.

What European involvement in Africa looks like in this timeline will also be seriously weird. Things have changed enough throughout the world that I hesitate to speculate too much about the details, but things like lack of kunduri growing will surely slow some of the influx of capital that, together with that from sugar, financed the Industrial Revolutions. I doubt this will abort industrialisation totally, but it will certainly slow things down.

*

From: Davey Cricket
Time: 20 August, 10:35 AM

Kaiser, you need to give some clarity about your divergence.

There’s too many people arguing over “no Aururian agriculture”, that’s one kind of scenario, or “slower Aururian agriculture”, which is quite another. The whole discussion is going off on tangents, so can you let us know what you’re thinking of? The no Aururian agriculture sounds more interesting to my ears since it’s quantifiable, while “slower Aururian agriculture” could lead to a whole range of scenarios.

*

From: Three-Humped Camel
Time: 20 August, 11:34 AM

So there’s no farming at all in Aururia. Hunter-gatherers hold sway in the south and east just as they did in the north and west in real history. The immense natural resources of the continent remain untapped, since the locals lack the manpower or economic structure to make exploiting them viable.

The Maori land in the east sometime around 1300. Somewhere. No-one’s quite sure where. Maybe they settle there, maybe they don’t. It’s a long way back to Aotearoa, they’re not short of land back home right now. Not much tech or population advantage over the locals.

If the Maori do colonise Aururia, they won’t expand very far or very fast. Sweet potato, taro and Maori yams can grow on the east coast, better than in Aotearoa itself, but still not all that well unless and until the Maori expand much further north than any likely place of first contact.

So if there are Maori in Aururia, they cling to the east coast where the rainfall’s highest, and are slowly expanding over the next couple of hundred years. IF – and it’s a big if – the Maori discover some of the eastern coast spices, they might start cultivating them. But probably not. A couple of hundred years is not much time to become familiar with all of the new wild plants, or to start cultivating them on a big scale.

The big changes happen in 1619, when de Houtman arrives in the Atjuntja lands – all right, what would have been the Atjuntja lands – and finds... nothing.

No farmers, no gold, no sandalwood, nothing. No reason to stick around and explore further east, so he has a quick look and then sails on north. I doubt that the Dutch will do anything more to explore Aururia. De Houtman wasn’t the first Duch sailor to visit the continent, after all, and the rest had sailed north again after finding nothing to interest them.

Perhaps the Dutch East India Company eventually gets around to sending a ship around the south coast, but that expedition won’t find much of interest either. Unless it makes it as far as any Maori settlements on the east coast, and even then, there will only be interest if the Maori have started cultivating verbenas or sweet peppers or jeeree. Even if they have, there won’t be the same supplies of it, so a much slower process of building up Dutch influence among the Maori.

What does this mean for the wider world? So many changes that it’s impossible to keep track of all of them, but a few do leap to mind.

The continent certainly won’t have the same name in this allohistory, since it won’t be the Land of Gold. No Aururian gold for the wider world. The vast supply of bullion that lies under Thijszenia [Tasmania], Djawrit [Bendigo] and Timwee [Kalgoorlie] stays there for centuries to come.

The economic effects of that will be considerable, starting with no seventeenth-century inflation across Western and Central Europe. In the longer term, probably a currency shortage without the bullion to issue coinage. How will industrialisation proceed, or will it proceed at all, without that abundance of currency to facilitate economic growth?

Likewise, no silver from Gwee Langta [Broken Hill]. The biggest seventeenth-century source of silver no longer exists. Since most of that ended up in the bullion sinks of Cathay and Korea, the consequences for that trade will also be severe. Much harder to buy spices for Europe now, though I leave the consequences of this for those more versed in East Asian history than I.

The other massive, massive change is this: no Aururian plagues. No Marnitja sweeping across the world, no blue-sleep wiping out the Austrian Habsburgs. A much more populated world in general.

Picking out how all of that will unfold is a herculean effort. To choose just one part of the thread, Gustavus Adolphus survives the *Twenty Years’ War in this allohistory, thanks to no Waiting Death. This means a stronger position for Sweden in northern Europe during and after the war. Perhaps a greater Swedish presence around the Baltic? The Baltic could well become Mare Seonium. Given GA’s proclivities, this would also probably lead to more vigorous Swedish colonisation of North America and the Caribbean.

To take things to the bigger picture, the lack of plagues and associated disruption will see more European colonists settling in the New World (mostly North America and Brazil) during the seventeenth century, and into the eighteenth. England and Portugal will be the biggest sources, as they were in real history, but they will have more company. The Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden, and France too. Come to think of it, Richelieu showed some interest in colonies, if I remember right, so since he survives the plagues, he will encourage more French colonies in the New World. Stronger French settlement in Canada, perhaps, leading to France retaining the colony?

You’re looking at a more populated Europe, and indeed a more populated world. One with stunted economic growth per capita (less currency and capital), but a bigger market, and without the mixed blessings of inflation. From a political standpoint, this also means that there is none of the inflation which put pressure on the noble estates (who mostly had fixed rents), and which so severely weakened aristocratic power across the continent. Absolutism either doesn’t get established, has a few more holdouts, or ends earlier. Or all of those.

Europe in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries won’t look much like the world we know, that’s for sure.

*

From: Max Pedant
Time: 20 August, 11:59 AM

@Elyk
See, this is the type of pointless monomaniacal obsession which absolutely frustrates me. When presented with a sweeping divergence which could lead to a multitude of outcomes, too many posters insist that there is One True Way that the divergence could play out, other options be damned.

Here, you are too focused on the path in which our history happened to follow, and ignoring alternatives. No matter what Sanford writes, the absence of the red yam does not mean that agriculture will never develop in Aururia.

The red yam got Aururia to agriculture first. Yes, no disputing that at all. But it is a ridiculous leap of logic to go from that fact to present a false dichotomy of “either there is a red yam, or Aururia has no indigenous farming”. You are ignoring that in an allohistory, some other crop may have got there second. I have already pointed out one potential crop, and Special Jimmy has pointed out another. Yet you remain blind to these alternatives, and focus on the way it happened in real history.

Or if you want me to put it more succinctly: This is allohistory.com. History.com is over that way.

For myself, I think that the idea of a slower-developing Aururia is a fascinating what-if to explore. But it is not possible to have that discussion when you keep getting interrupted by people digitally shouting “It could not happen! Go home!”

*
From: The Immortal Clements
Time: 20 August, 12:51 PM

Originally written by Max Pedant:

> For myself, I think that the idea of a slower- developing
> Aururia is a fascinating what-if to explore.

If Aururia is yam-less, agriculture still happens.

Never mind this kerfuffle over where and when red yams might have showed up. There’s another prime agricultural origin just waiting.

The Junditmara are calling. Look at them. They settled down and worked out aquaculture long before anyone on the Nyalananga had even started cultivating yams. If they’re settled down, they’re halfway to starting agriculture. Give them enough time, and they’ll manage the other half.

Agriculture spread to the Junditmara from the Nyalananga in our history, but they would have found it on their own regardless. Millet, weeping rice, cornnarts, whatever the case may be.

Different outcomes, different pace without the red yam, but the Junditmara give you the where for agriculture. We just need to work out the when.

*

From: Ebony Aunt
Time: 20 August, 1:23 PM

Originally written by Three-Humped Camel:
> Europe in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries won’t look
> much like the world we know, that’s for sure.

Without so much bullion around, and with more of what’s left ending up in Cathay without Aururian spices to balance the trade, then Europe will certainly have a cash crisis.

Maybe an earlier take-up of paper money to replace the missing bullion?

*
From: X-Dreamer
Time: 20 August, 2:37 PM

@THC
Too damned right!

If Aururia’s empty, the Dutch aren’t going there. What’s in it for them? Profits, sweet profits, was all the VOC cared about. Janszoon visited the north in 1606, looked around, and left. In 1616, Hartog came, Hartog saw, and Hartog absconded. In 1619, De Houtman found gold and sandalwood, and so he and Coen cared enough for him to come back. With an empty Aururia, de Houtman is like those before him, he lands a couple of times, draws some good charts, leaves, and never returns.

So in this allohistory, Aururia won’t be Dutch. What it will be is strongly Portuguese-influenced, and the single biggest demographic will be the Maori who’ve settled on the east.

Portugal cares for profits, but it also cares enough to send missions. Or some of its people will. You’ll be looking at missions gradually established around the whole continent. Including eventually with the Maori. No other European power will trouble itself over Aururia for a very long time, if ever.

*

From: Stuffed Pork Chop
Time: 20 August, 3:55 PM

@X-Dreamer
Aren’t you assuming that there’ll even be a Portugal in this allohistory? They were still part of Spain at the time. I doubt they’d revolt without the effects of the Aururian plagues and the consequent over-taxation.

*

From: X-Dreamer
Time: 20 August, 4:04 PM

@SPC
Portugal still ran its own affairs in the colonies. Even if they stay with Spain and end up being integrated, they will still be influencing Aururia for a while. This might later mean a Spanish Aururia.

*

From: Professor Harpsichord
Time: 20 August, 4:24 PM

Put me down for another who subscribes to the slower development of agriculture model. I don’t buy this “red yam above all” contention that some here are pushing.

Sanford was no expert on botany. He should have taken up ornithology or something instead of pretending to be a historian.

*

From: Lord Nunyah
Time: 20 August, 5:57 PM

Originally written by Three-Humped Camel:
> Likewise, no silver from Gwee Langta. The biggest
> seventeenth-century source of silver no longer exists.
> Since most of that ended up in the bullion sinks of
> Cathay and Korea, the consequences for that trade will
> also be severe. Much harder to buy spices for Europe
> now, though I leave the consequences of this for those
> more versed in East Asian history than I.

I’m no expert, but there’s an intriguing confluence of timing here in the fall of the Northern Ming and the division of Cathay.

Cathay was united under the Ming in 1619. Troubled, but still united. In real history, it copped famines in the north, economic problems after Spain cut off the illegal silver trade across the Pacific to Cathay, leading to taxation revolts, the double-whammy of the two Aururian plagues in quick succession, upstart generals, and ultimately the overthrow of the Ming in the north by the new You, leading to their retreat to southern Cathay.

In allohistory, the Ming are still in trouble. The root causes of famines are still there, and I don’t think that a lack of Aururian contact will butterfly away the Spanish closure of the silver smuggling. The Aururian epidemics will not happen, but I think there was at least one unrelated epidemic during this era anyway.

The Ming are probably still gone from the north. The details differ, with some other Cathayan general being the one blessed by heaven, but a new dynasty is born. Whether the alternative dynasty is capable of pushing out the Southern Ming is a good question.

Whatever else happens, though, there’s still a Cathayan dynasty that will be lacking in Aururian silver. Economic problems galore. The new *You may not look much like the old You.

*

From: Patrician
Time: 20 August, 6:38 PM

@ Lord Nunyah
In a no-agriculture scenario, or a slower-agriculture so no plagues scenario, I think that the Ming will limp on. There had been rebellions before, and will be again regardless of any Aururian contact. The death toll from the plagues was the crucial factor – 20+% of the population!

The Ming were hardly decrepit. They held on fine in the South even with the plagues. Without those plagues, there will be rebellions and tax revolts galore, and a lot of trouble, but I think that the Ming live on in the north. A united Cathay would be an interesting consequence.

*

From: Kaiser Maximilian IV
Time: 20 August, 7:02 PM

Originally written by Three-Humped Camel:
> Europe in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries won’t look
> much like the world we know, that’s for sure.

Thanks for the very well-thought out, detailed response. Guess you weren’t smoking anything when you wrote this, hey, THC?

*

From: Kaiser Maximilian IV
Time: 20 August, 7:11 PM

Originally written by Davey Cricket:
> Kaiser, you need to give some clarity about
> your divergence.

You make some good points, but part of the discussion needs to be which of those is more feasible. Which way would Aururia develop without the red yam? If it is a slower agriculture scenario, which is actually the one that interests me, then I’m keen to hear how other people think that agriculture would develop. I don’t want to just randomly grab some particular form of slower agriculture, and then strangle that discussion.

Shaved Ape, if you’re reading this, then your expertise would be invaluable here.

*

From: Space Wasp
Time: 20 August, 8:37 PM

Too much cross-purposes speculation, and no concrete scenario.

Fine, I’ll write one. A slower-developing Aururia is more in line with KMIV’s wishes, plus it gives us something to work with other than “desert of red where the land of gold used to be”.

For ease of calculation, and by sacrificing a hundred trillion butterflies on the altar of simplicity, let’s say that Aururia develops exactly how it did historically, but eight hundred years slower. The lack of red yams has been balanced by more murnong, cornnarts, and a new crop of millet. But otherwise, agriculture still starts along the Nyalananga, the Great Migrations occur, egcetera, egcetera.

In 1300 or thereabouts, the Maori arrive on the east coast. By caging an additional ten trillion butterflies in the world’s largest lepidoptera museum, sweet potatoes still make it across with the Maori, spreading north slowly and allowing the proto-Kiyungu to begin their own moves up the Tohu Coast. But the Empire is still there, in the interior, and still expansionistic.

In 1619, de Houtman lands on the far west, and finds a barely agricultural people. In another two years, Weemiraga is due to make his great March to the Sea and conquer the Patjimunra.

What happens next?

*

From: ZigZag
Time: 21 August, 6:03 PM

Originally written by Space Wasp:
> What happens next?

What happens next is that the thread ends over confusion about which scenario to take up.

*

From: Shaved Ape
Time: 22 August, 1:23 AM

KMIV, I think you’ll find that this thread has died because the divergence you’ve suggested is simply too broad for people to do more than post some brief general speculation. Which they’ve already done.

Other than that, the changes are just so overwhelming that people can’t even have a coherent discussion, because everyone is coming at it from different perspectives. I think this is something that needs to be timelined rather than what-iffed.

And no, I’m not volunteering to write another timeline based on a “no red yam” divergence. Writing For Want of a Yam was already more than enough effort. Only a person with far too much time on their hands and who’s a secret masochist would write even one timeline based on a globe-changing agricultural divergence. Writing a second such timeline would take a particular kind of suicidal obsession which I lack.

* * *

[1] i.e. the fertile south-western corner of historical Western Australia, which in allohistorical times was ruled by the Atjuntja. The name Yaoran refers to the collective name given to all of the farming peoples who dwelt there.

[2] Wineberry or yolnu is a plant which is historically called ruby saltbush (Enchylaena tomentosa). This plant has a variety of uses in allohistorical Aururia and around the world, but its most notable feature is that it can be used to flavour wine or ganyu (yam wine).

* * *

Thoughts?

 

[Petike]

Ah, our arguing ATL forumites again !

Australia Day makes for a less usual holiday special, I'll admit.

BTW, Jared, I need to talk to you about one thing :
The chapter guide on the timeline's wiki page is getting awfully long. Should I move it all to a separate page ? I once hesitated to do so, because I wanted to allow people to jump directly into reading the storyline. A separate page could have looked a bit off-putting in that earlier phase. But now... Now, I'm willing to reconsider and move the stuff, just so the master page for the TL can remain easy to ready and not too convoluted-looking.

 

[FDW]

Nice update Jared, an interesting look at the familiar in the unfamiliar.

 

[The Sandman]

That update raises an interesting question about OTL: why did the colonists completely miss the local produce? Were they just that totally unwilling to eat anything that they hadn't imported?