I cant be consistently writing parts. Our discussions into the future are just that, discussions. Also i dont have enough knowledge to disagree with MNP LK or Eurofed. I will agree though that i would have liked many of these posts in personal message format as to not have lots of the TL figured out. Anywayswhat has been posted does not neccasarily mean it will happen. IDF is still being written
Italy, a Destiny Fulfilled
- Thread starter Franciscus Caesar
- Start date
I cant be consistently writing parts. Our discussions into the future are just that, discussions. Also i dont have enough knowledge to disagree with MNP LK or Eurofed. I will agree though that i would have liked many of these posts in personal message format as to not have lots of the TL figured out. Anywayswhat has been posted does not neccasarily mean it will happen. IDF is still being written
Eurofed
Banned
So far, all the PoDs and butterflies that have been used and discussed about are wholly plausible, and actually rather likely in fact. Barring convincing arguments of yours to the contrary, yours it is just a wholly arbitrary and rather unsympathetic assumption.
This mainly happened because Lord Kalvan, myself, and some others have been running a parallel thread for some time where we discussed a very similar scenario (Italy doing as well as Prussia in the 1866 war) to FC's one (he has started earlier and built up a detailed explanation of why Italy does so well, which we did not bother doing, and I praise him for that, because he had good insights about Italy-friendly PoDs that had escaped my imagination and the flare to develop them into an entairtaining way). While FC has chosen to develop his TL in a high-detail, day-by-day format (which is the most complex and time-consuming format of all, so I think everyone should give FC a break if he takes his reasonable time writing), in the other thread the discussion was about very broad economic, socio-political, strategic, and diplomatic treands. So it happened that the discussion went much further down the timescale than this TL. The former discussion was mainly contained to its own thread for a while, then it somehow spilled over here, owing to the very similar nature.
If this has spoiled anyone's fun, or seemingly made FC's very good work any less impressive in the eyes of some, I can only apologize.
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Yes, it sure has. If you want to continue discussing, bump your thread. This thread isnt even a TL any more as far as Im concerned, a TL should just be the parts and the discussion about the parts, not about what will happen in a hundred years time.
Eurofed
Banned
You sure don't seem to be familiar with TLs like Big Tex's Ameriwank and my own USAO (or maybe you hate their guts), with a global scope, centuries-old PoDs, and the author having a not-breakneck pace of writing, where fans eagerly run massive speculative discussions on stuff a century and more down the line, dwarfing the pace of actual parts.
Don't you think these two posts are somehow contradictory?
I do obviously appreciate your role as censor: where would this TL be without you?
...no? How are they contradictory?Don't you think these two posts are somehow contradictory?
I do obviously appreciate your role as censor: where would this TL be without you?
And Im no censor, Im just trying to say 'Get down to earth, stop fanticising and write parts again'. This used to be one of my favourite TLs, and Id love to see it back on track.
...no? How are they contradictory?
And Im no censor, Im just trying to say 'Get down to earth, stop fanticising and write parts again'. This used to be one of my favourite TLs, and Id love to see it back on track.
Jim,
You will not be let down. This TL is being written in TL format. More parts will be coming soon, I promise (I haven't done anything recently as to give this thread and everyone some time to cool off). The "future fanticising" is done (as we have reached OTL time in our talks
) and we will continue from where we have left off.May I remind everyone that the talks in this thread are just hypothetical. Many butterflies can change them around so no one think this TL is already written in the posts!
Good, Im looking forward to it.Jim,
You will not be let down. This TL is being written in TL format. More parts will be coming soon, I promise (I haven't done anything recently as to give this thread and everyone some time to cool off). The "future fanticising" is done (as we have reached OTL time in our talks
May I remind everyone that the talks in this thread are just hypothetical. Many butterflies can change them around so no one think this TL is already written in the posts!
IDF future discussion thread is up! Basically to keep this TL traditional, all discussions henceforth will be the usual conversation on the posted part (Be it props, critiques, suggestions, ideas or even TL worship). All discussion on the future shaping will be in the discussion thread. Now everyone is happy!
Heres a link to the Discussion:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=142341
). All discussion on the future shaping will be in the discussion thread. Now everyone is happy!Heres a link to the Discussion:
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=142341
Parte Nove
September, Pietro di Castagna, nephew of Prime Minister di Castagna, in a joint government partnership opens up “Barone di Castagna” arms. A joint venture between the di Castagna family, Prima, the Italian government and with 20% ownership going to German rising star rifle manufacturer Mauser, “Barone di Castagna” or BDC as it is to become known as, opens up its first plant in Reggio Calabria.
The French elections are over and the election of a monarchist majority to the new National Assembly enrages the public. The newly elected National Assembly begins the process of moving from Bordeaux to Versailles having decided that the capital city is too turbulent for them to meet there. Their absence creates a power vacuum in Paris as well as suspicion about the large royalist majority National Assembly's intentions.
October, antagonism between the conservative provisional Government of National Defence and the far left radicals in Paris finally erupts into open fighting in the streets of Paris. The Capital is seized by the commune, which hoists the red socialist flag victoriously over the city. The new council makes many decrees including: the separation of church and state, the remission of rents owed for the entire period of the siege (during which, payment had been suspended), the abolition of night work in the hundreds of Paris bakeries, the granting of pensions to the unmarried companions and children of National Guards killed on active service, the free return, by the city pawnshops, of all workmen's tools and household items valued up to 20 francs, pledged during the siege, the postponement of commercial debt obligations, and abolition of interest on the debts, and the right of employees to take over and run an enterprise if it were deserted by its owner; the Commune, nonetheless, recognized the previous owner's right to compensation.
Simultaneously with the Paris Commune, uprisings in Lyon and Marseille go off. Grenoble (in Italian hands) experiences some mild uprisings due to the news but they are quickly suppressed by the many thousands of well trained Italian troops.
November, di Castagna and Bismarck are forced to release PoWs to France so as to allow the safety and integrity of the country against the rising communes in the three major cities. di Castagna, joyously realizing Italy’s future destiny as a forerunning major European power, sets out to tweak his now famous l'azione di riforma dei soldati, 1862. Italy now has a standing army of 300,000 and estimates say it can muster 1,000,000 on mass mobilization. di Castagna puts forth a proposition on changing the order of Italy’s battalions. He reasons by saying at current, Italy’s 10 main battle squads are a mix of Italians from all over the country whereas the effective Prussian model uses 12 main battalions each with men from their own region. He does, however, see the flaw in this. Italy’s armies are done as they are on purpose. The regional model used to fail in Italian terms as it encouraged regionalism, something that hindered unification. di Castagna is confident that his government has creative a substantial amount of Italian identity and the fear of such harsh regionalism is without grounds. di Castagna also makes plans to raise the Italian military budget to 40% of the GDP in the near future. This, being a figure that used to stand in Italy before unification in the early 1860s made this drop (though di Castagna’s government has seen it grow tremendously, whereas it now stands at around 30%). The PM also proposes the re-equipment of infantry and artillery with more modern weapons, fortifications and barracks. In a speech made this month, he calls the army “an embodiment of national virtues and defender of both internal and external order”.
December, to compete directly against government backed BDC and to keep it from expanding into heavy armaments and ammunition, Italian company Gio. Ansaldo & C [1] goes into a joint venture with German company Krupp [2] to produce a new variety of field gun.
French government forces engage the Parisians and begin besieged the city's powerful defences, and pushing back the National Guards. A gate to the city falls late in the month. Government forces take the prosperous western city with little trouble while in the poorer east, each Quartier fights to the death.
January, many Papal Catholic (PC) orders such as the Jesuits begin getting expelled from many major cities. Seizure of Papal Catholic lands and assets begin getting confiscated en mass as the Old Catholic (OC) movement begins to grip Italy (due largely in part to anti Pope Propaganda). A secular court is also set up for cases involving the clergy.
January 24th, di Castagna announces the creation of the Universita Reale d’Italia (Royal University of Italy or URI) in Rome. The University will channel the brainpower of all the great scientists, artists and Mathematicians of Italy and Europe. Outside of the main building will be a large Statue of Nike from Germany as a gift of friendship. An identical Italian statue will be sent to Germany. The campus will also house a new hall built for the Old Catholic clergy.
January 26th, di Castagna and wife Vittoria take a carriage ride around Rome to inspect the city’s mass renovation, goaled at turning the city into a capital worthy of the new Italy. As the carriage makes its way into Piazza Barberini, a loyal crowd swarms the carriage. di Castagna enjoys public displays of affection towards himself and waves to the crowd. Just as the Prime Minister puts his hand back into the carriage, the flock of heads immediately around the carriage duck for cover as the bang cannot be heard too well over the yells of the crowd. The crowd catches on quickly to what has gone on. The carriage driver immediately orders the horses to run but this is impossible with the crowd only feet away. The few Carabinieri run to the right side of the carriage to attack the gunman. There is no need however as the crowd is already in the process of mulling him and the Carabinieri instead must try to pull the man out of the hostile mob. Vittoria di Castagna is the only one to attend to her pain ridden husband leaning into her arms as she yells for God and her husband. The situation becomes a complete mess with the di Castagna carriage unable to move in the pandemonium and the extent of Francesco di Castagna’s wound unknown.
[Notes]
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gio._Ansaldo_&_C.
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krupp
[3] I know there hasn't been a part up in a while, this one may be a bit short but the peace is taking a bit longer than expected and my schedule isn't helping in the slightest.
Eurofed
Banned
Cool update, a mix of wrapping up to war aftermath in France (although much more is likely to come still) and more financial and military build-up of groundwork for future Italian greatness. The regionalist reform of Italian military was indeed shot down for fears of fostering separatism,although it would have improved cohesion, but with greater national sentiment created by Italian victories in 1866-68, this is not so real a problem. Also cool to see Italian industry getting organized and building links with the German one, that way lies the path to prosperity. And to see the Popists getting their just desserts and making room for the OC.
The update ends with a cliffhanger, I can only hope and trust that this is not a lethal wound. Di Castagna is wholly needed and deserves to live at least as much as Bismarck (DC is seven years younger than Otto, so he ought to last at least as long if not an half-decade more, he looks like a strudy guy), so the partners can lay down the basics for a bright future of Europe (with Rome and Berlin the wise leaders at the top, of course). I'd expect that this is an assassiantion attempt by Popist Catholics or less likely Anarcho-Socialist extremists. Any way, if (as I expect) Di Castagna surives, he can easily channel the public outcry in more support for his leadership and policies.
The update ends with a cliffhanger, I can only hope and trust that this is not a lethal wound. Di Castagna is wholly needed and deserves to live at least as much as Bismarck (DC is seven years younger than Otto, so he ought to last at least as long if not an half-decade more, he looks like a strudy guy), so the partners can lay down the basics for a bright future of Europe (with Rome and Berlin the wise leaders at the top, of course). I'd expect that this is an assassiantion attempt by Popist Catholics or less likely Anarcho-Socialist extremists. Any way, if (as I expect) Di Castagna surives, he can easily channel the public outcry in more support for his leadership and policies.
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Thank you
Pshht, di Castagna is a good ol' southern boy! No gunman is gonna stop him! The time that he takes to recover, however, can mean great misfortune to our new Italia... That is assuming he doesn't die of course! Wow, I've missed quite a lot. Anyways, aside from the drama streak glad to see the thread back on track! The latest installment is really good Franciscus, too short though! I'm sure you won't let di Castagna die though..? Also, the whole November part was really great, along with the whole business side, nice detail. Can't wait till the next part!
Also, I am glad to see that future discussions will be out of this thread. They are great and all but not on here. They crowded the thread and left massive gaps between parts. Future discussion TL is very appropriate!
I'm sure you won't let di Castagna die though..? Also, the whole November part was really great, along with the whole business side, nice detail. Can't wait till the next part!Also, I am glad to see that future discussions will be out of this thread. They are great and all but not on here. They crowded the thread and left massive gaps between parts. Future discussion TL is very appropriate!
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Wow, I've missed quite a lot. Anyways, aside from the drama streak glad to see the thread back on track! The latest installment is really good Franciscus, too short though!
Also, I am glad to see that future discussions will be out of this thread. They are great and all but not on here. They crowded the thread and left massive gaps between parts. Future discussion TL is very appropriate!
Thank you! I hate writing wars, i can't make them sound good or fit in "pathos". These story installments are a pleasure and i think theyre a great read for everyone
Eurofed
Banned
Thank you! I hate writing wars, i can't make them sound good or fit in "pathos". These story installments are a pleasure and i think theyre a great read for everyone
Actually, I think you did it fine with the F-G-I war. Take rest in your preferred stuff for a while, there is all the post-war aftermath to do (the peace deal, the Catholic Schism, the regime change in France and Spain, the forging of the economic and strategic new Italo-German axis, the continuation of reforms) even if, you know, in a few years there is another big war brewing on the other side of the continent
, but this too shall eventually be to Italy's greater gain and it shall seal its rise among the big boys.Thank you!
Anyways, I was intending on having a part ready by this past Thursday/Friday however that did not end up happening. Unfortunately we are in mourning from the loss of my Grandmother. Due to this and my week long absence from work it has caused, I owe it to all readers to say do not wait up on the next part. I will have a part up around Christmas time and I am attempting to have at least 2-3 parts on tap for then, to get a regular posting schedule established.
Parte Dieci
January 27th, Newspapers around Italy and Europe post the “di Castagna shooting” as front page news. Official information on the event states the deaths of four Romans due to being trampled by horses as Vittoria di Castagna shrieked to the driver to get them out of the crowd. di Castagna received medical attention within an hour, throughout which his wife held his wound closed. The Gunman was 21 year old Jeanne-Pierre Reynard, a native of Chamberry. The young man is in stable condition in Rome suffering from multiple broken bones due to the battering he received from the furious crowd. Reynard’s assassination attempt was fuelled by anger as he was a chamberry communard who was suppressed from rioting by Italian forces. Most importantly, Prime Minister Francesco di Castagna is in stable condition in Rome as well. The extent of his injury is a shattered femur. King Vittorio Emanuelle has the wounded hero placed in his Quirinal Palace to receive his medical aide (this is seen as a political move by the king to make sure he is kept on good terms by his people by keeping their “Hero” in his home. This is a move that merits his desired results). di Castagna’s right hand man, Foreign Minister Silvio Barletto gives a quick speech to crowds of thousands outside Palazzo Montecitorio in Rome, telling all that the loved di Castagna shall push forward through and by the grace of God, and that Italy must realize its position in the world, as this cowardly attempt was one of the jealous outsiders.
After his speech, Barletto arrives at the side of di Castagna and wife Vittoria. di Castagna is in pain both physically and spiritually. He tells those in his immediate presence that this is an act of God for breaking his church. Vittoria breaks down to this whereas Barletto rounds up everyone in the room and takes them outside. He tells them that anything the Prime Minister says is to be disregarded and never to be spoken of as he is not in stable mental condition under the circumstances. He then hails in an OC priest to attend to the PM.
February, Silvio Barletto is chosen to become Prime Minister of Italy until di Castagna is able to resume his post. He establishes himself again on the steps of Palazzo Montecitorio with an acceptance speech. The speech is filled with references to the Roman Empire and odes to the “True Church of Jesus Christ, the True Catholic Church, hailing not a power hungry old man but to God and God alone!”
In his first act as Prime Minister, Barletto mounts a political expedition to Mount Fumaiolo, the mountain where the famed Tiber River has its source. Barletto has a large Marble Corinthian column placed next to the source with an inscription on it that reads: Qui nasce il fiume sacro al destini passato, presenti e futuri di Roma (Here is born the river sacred to the past, present and future destinies of Rome).
Ottoman economy is on a steady rise due to the purchasing of railroads, guns, and ships not being so costly because of massive raw materials trade to Italy
The Pope comments that Italy and its Church, with its break from mainstream Catholicism, will see a mass conversion to Islam due to close relations with the Ottomans. He again calls for all Italians to rebel against their government saying “God has given you an opportunity to see the light and bring yourselves back onto the true path of redemption. The heretic Prime Minister di Castagna has been temporarily pushed aside, now is the time for the Italians to overthrow their Godless government and let the Catholic Church back in!”
To the surfacing remarks of the Pope, Barletto replies “The Pope has become a corrupt, obscurantist puppet of the French who plots to destroy Italy and erase all its accomplishments. Papal blabber must be disregarded as the ramblings of a senile old man”
Peace talks have been delayed multiple times due to the Paris commune and the recent assassination attempt, Barletto plans to get talks up immediately, before di Castagna returns to office…
Profile: Silvio Barletto, a short life summary.
Born November 21st, 1816 in Cosenza, Calabria. Barletto became good friends with the young di Castagna through time spent in Rende on his uncles’ farm. Barletto was born to a local mafia Capo and was considerably better off compared to young di Castagna. Barletto was able to obtain considerable schooling during his early life due to his father’s stature, as opposed to di Castagna. Their friendship strengthened in the military academy of Torino, where Barletto shared dreams to become a politician with the young Francesco, who was mystified at the idea as well. After the academy, di Castagna’s dream to become an industrialist flourished with the creation and growth of Prima. Barletto was given a high rank in the company due to his friendship with the owner. Not wanting to be overshadowed by a younger, uneducated friend, Barletto left Prima and went on to try a vast multitude of other business ideas. After only a year, Barletto was on a furious search for financing to open up a sulphur plant. Upon hearing the idea (not from Barletto) di Castagna contacted his friend with news of a substantial loan, free of interest. Hearing this, Barletto paid a visit to the di Castagna house and threw a tantrum, refusing the loan from “an uneducated kid who got lucky”. After meeting all the businessmen in southern Italy, Barletto asked if di Castagna’s offer was still available. It was, of course. Barletto & Co. became one of the largest sulphur companies in Italy. Barletto, once established as an important man of business, tried actively to pursue his dream of becoming a politician, ending him up with just an honourable title in Calabria. Later that year, Prime Minister Cavour appointed Francesco di Castagna minister of the interior, causing the already hugely evident jealousy Barletto had towards his childhood friend to blossom into a secret hatred. None the less, di Castagna made Barletto Italian Foreign Minister in 1865. Now, with the great Francesco di Castagna out of action, even temporarily, Silvio Barletto is determined to make his mark on world politics for greatness, and to redeem all that his best friend has taken away from him.
Notes
-The short life summary is to shed some light on the hints of animosity between him and di Castagna seen in Part 10.
-French Peace is coming, I chose not to put it in this part however, as I am trying to limit how long each part is. I like the short readable chunks format. Next part should be up soon
Ugh Barletto is going to ruin everything! or at least until di Castagna gets back. Remember Franciscus, don't make him do anything too crazy, we DO want di Castagna to be able to fix any problems Barletto causes. Good job with the rest of the "di Castagna" shooting and the Barletto Profile, which shines lots of light on the early di Castagna as well.
Also, I like the mount fumaiolo plaque aspect. Is it possible that Barletto is TTLs Mussolini? Maybe the precursor to the alternate Fascist party spoken about earlier in the TL?
or at least until di Castagna gets back. Remember Franciscus, don't make him do anything too crazy, we DO want di Castagna to be able to fix any problems Barletto causes. Good job with the rest of the "di Castagna" shooting and the Barletto Profile, which shines lots of light on the early di Castagna as well.Also, I like the mount fumaiolo plaque aspect. Is it possible that Barletto is TTLs Mussolini? Maybe the precursor to the alternate Fascist party spoken about earlier in the TL?
You just dont get the whole concept of a TL, do you?Ugh Barletto is going to ruin everything!
Also, I like the mount fumaiolo plaque aspect. Is it possible that Barletto is TTLs Mussolini? Maybe the precursor to the alternate Fascist party spoken about earlier in the TL?
Plausability. REALISM. A plasible AH, not "our favourite nation is the best with our favourite leader doing all the right things...".
Anyway, nice to see someone else rather than Castagna as the PM.
Exactly. This is meant to be a modestly sized speed bump in the growth of power in Italy. Its going to have some good come out of it, but this is in the bad things category. It ads realism to the TL, not just having Italy in the perfect world.
Agreed. He's a great character but a bit of a break doesn't hurt