Yes, I mean East Asian.. As in Filipino of primarily Han Chinese stock with some Malay Filipino and a tiny sprinkling of Filipino-Mestizo (of partial Caucasian Mediterannean (ie. Iberian/Spanish) and partial Chinese and native Filipino blood)..
If We Were Living In An Eastern World
- Thread starter metallidude
- Start date
Yes, I mean East Asian.. As in Filipino of primarily Han Chinese stock with some Malay Filipino and a tiny sprinkling of Filipino-Mestizo (of partial Caucasian Mediterannean (ie. Iberian/Spanish) and partial Chinese and native Filipino blood)..
Susano
Banned
Now, Im not as well-read on Chinese history like, say, Faeelin is, but hadnt China also massive peasant uprisings on a scale Europe could only dream (or have nightmares) about? Which pretty much are discontinuities, too. So Im not sure the Chinese ideal of harmony would necessarily translate into political and social reality.
I personally think that had the East conquered the world, it would be as bloody as say the real 20th century under a Westernized world.
Chinese history does everything on a scale Europe can only dream of
However, I would not generally regard these peasant uprisings as discontinuities of the kind that have characterised Western history. They were discontent and ready to topple a dynasty, but rearely, if ever, were they out to destroy the system. Even at the times when they came closest - the post-Chin revolts, the Taoist-Buddhist conflict in the first millennium - there was a general understanding of the way things ought to be run. Western civilisation, by contrast, for the last few centuries has been characterised by a profound disagreement on how things ought to be run. This, BTW, is relatiovely new - most medieval and many early modern uprisings still are continuity phenomena demanding the restoration of the *proper* form of government, not the establishment of a new and better kind. That said, China is hardly a perfect example of its harmony ideology, and we can't blame that exclusively on nasty interfering Westerners. As I said, I don't think it would necessarily be better, just very different especially in this respect. Traditional cultures are wonderfully adaptable, especially if they have extensive oral traditions - not only can you do things differently tomorrow, you will always have done them differently the next day.
If we lived in a eastern dominated world would we drive British cars, watch French cartoons and wear clothes made in Germany?
I don't see things being THAT different.
We would still wear t-shirts and trousers generally. They're just the most common sense way of dressing. Likewise in design modern things mostly follow a common sense approach, not a western one.
And guns germans and steel- people here really are beginning to treat it like the bible....
I don't see things being THAT different.
We would still wear t-shirts and trousers generally. They're just the most common sense way of dressing. Likewise in design modern things mostly follow a common sense approach, not a western one.
And guns germans and steel- people here really are beginning to treat it like the bible....
z0mfg see what I mean?? The list of things you mentioned is a result of Western domination and not a product of the East! Sure, they are korean, japanese and chinese but it's still a product of Western culture and technology. Adn chinese clothes?? Look, i knew people would start mentioning those chinese clothes with cloak and crap and the dragons.. Look, the clothes would have changed by then even if the world were to be under Eastern hegemony.
About bathing, while they did reek the Europeans were worse, the kings and Queens used to bath once in a year and they still wore their undergarments while bathing. Now imagine what the European peasants were like.
Now, about the life of what the world would be like, I think the world have some interesting architecture, I can imagine more buildings like the "Taipei 101".
If we lived in a eastern dominated world would we drive British cars, watch French cartoons and wear clothes made in Germany?
I don't see things being THAT different.
We would still wear t-shirts and trousers generally. They're just the most common sense way of dressing. Likewise in design modern things mostly follow a common sense approach, not a western one.
And guns germans and steel- people here really are beginning to treat it like the bible....
Lawlz
Guns, 'Germans' and Steel??
I would contest that assertion. Trousers and t-shirts are a good way of dressing for hot weather *in the Western paradigm* which a) requires the entire torso to be covered and b) associates trousers with active masculinity (in which women today are allowed to participate). If the weather is hot enough for trousers and t-shirts, it is likewise hot enough for tunic and leggings, for breechclout and jacket, or in many cases for nothing at all.
Similarly, many other things just look like a commonsense way of doing things because they are optimised for efficiency within our way of thinking. I would argue it is nearly impossible to say what a non-Western industrial culture really would be like because we're not used to thinking that way. BUt if we want to get anywhere, we should get away from the idea of 'we do things the logical way'.
Faeelin
Banned
I dunno; there's plenty of precedent for tyrannical emperors in Chinese history, who are overthrown.
Maybe the righteous scholars of Fusang refuse to kowtow to the Qing...
Not ineveitable, and not democracy by any means; but this Eastern World may have its own notion of human rights and liberty.
Hmm. I kind of feel that they'll have to break out of high equilibrium if they're going to create a modern world.
It has more of a ring to it no?
Tunics/skirts/kilts/leggings/whatever are western ways of dressing too, they just gave way to modernity.
Skirts, tunics, etc... are too floppy- not at all suitable for wearing in a factory. Also they're very simple. No need for tying them or anything.
Besides, this style of wear is pretty traditional in the orient too.
NapoleonXIV
Banned
A Chinese dominated world would lack the Western emphases on the mind-body dichotomy and the adversarial winner-take-all nature of argument and conflict resolution. That might be good or bad, probably both. Oh, and sex roles, tho here I can't see anything bad about boys who appreciate flowers and books being not called fairies all the time.
In clothing I'm of two minds. The kimono is a good example of a broader phenomena to me. Picture and general wise it''s far too much, you really can't even tell it's a woman wearing it. Up close, hey, the way it closes and opens, and shifts about as a woman moves, and it's just AMAZINGLY sexy when it's half off.
In clothing I'm of two minds. The kimono is a good example of a broader phenomena to me. Picture and general wise it''s far too much, you really can't even tell it's a woman wearing it. Up close, hey, the way it closes and opens, and shifts about as a woman moves, and it's just AMAZINGLY sexy when it's half off.
If we lived in a eastern dominated world would we drive British cars, watch French cartoons and wear clothes made in Germany?
I don't see things being THAT different.
We would still wear t-shirts and trousers generally. They're just the most common sense way of dressing. Likewise in design modern things mostly follow a common sense approach, not a western one.
And guns germans and steel- people here really are beginning to treat it like the bible....
I really disagree that Western clothing like T-shirts and trousers are the most sensible way to dress. It's true that Western clothes have spread around the world, due to their prestige, but, really, the most sensible way to dress is nudity in many cases.
Swimming trunks are a Western, Victorian creation, for example, and they have replaced swimming naked around the world - very unsensible! The most sensible clothing for a region like California is complete nudity, as exemplified by the dress of the native people. The fact that most people in California where T-shirts and trousers is testament to Western influence. In an Easternized world, rather than a Westernized world, I imagine that even non-Eastern people around the world would be adopting hanfu - which, by the way, is comfortable and pleasant, and about as sensible as any Western clothing.I really disagree that Western clothing like T-shirts and trousers are the most sensible way to dress. It's true that Western clothes have spread around the world, due to their prestige, but, really, the most sensible way to dress is nudity in many cases.
Nudity isn't the most sensible way for humans to dress at all.
In cold regions you freeze and in hot regions non-natives (and even a lot of natives) get burned.
Also again for industrial work its not the safest.
For swimming being naked would probally make the most sense though except for perhaps dangly bits (both men and *ahem* large women).
Hanfu are not very sensible. Too dangly. Perhaps for people working in offices yes but in a factory and other labour work you will find basic clothing.
Oh, I'm not arguing that an Eastern world wouldn't have a concept of how the state should treat its people. However, I rather doubt that it would define it in as stark and absolute terms as modern Western civilisation does. The only thing in traditional Chinese culture that I could see leading to the idea that every person has inalienable rights that the state must under no circumstances violate would be the Legalist school running hog-wild for several centuries. I envision a much more traditionalist discourse of the common good, justice, and the conduct of proper government.
Except that Modern Japan did not evolve gradually and naturally out of Pre-Modern Japan. It was born suddenly when Pre-Modern Japan observed the Modern West and realized it was going to have to adapt or die. They observed what Modern America and Britain and Germany and so on were doing, and altered their own ways to bring them more in line with what Westerners thought of as a "modern" nation. When Japan become modern, it did so by Westernizing.
When a Japanese businessman goes to work, he wears a business suit because the West developed the outfit and decided it was the proper attire for modern businessmen. He may drive a Honda or ride a clean and efficient Japanese train to get to work, but those are technologies Japan imported from the West and then adapted.
This is, obviously, not to say that Japan is a "Western" nation. Of course they didn't abandon everything that made them Japanese. Nevertheless, modern Japan is a product of Eastern adaptations of Western ideas of modernity--not the natural development of Eastern modernity.
Regarding the American continent..
Would it have been colonized and extensively settled by Eastern powers after say, a catastrophic bubonic plague that killed off most of Europe's population and never recovered.. Europe would have been engulfed by Mongols (or some other Eastern power). Then, would the East have concentrated on taking Europe or would they have gone on to colonize the Americas? Would China, Japan and others had the need to colonize new lands across the Pacific or would they have left it all together resulting in an America with its indigineous civilizations untouched by outside.. (Maybe perhaps resulting in sort of like a Papua-New-Guinea-style-of-existence that many tribes in that country are in today or maybe even Africa, for the Americas)..
Would that hvae been the likely result of today (with an America untouched and with vast forests and tribes living in isolation) if it was the East who have gone on to dominate world politics?
Would it have been colonized and extensively settled by Eastern powers after say, a catastrophic bubonic plague that killed off most of Europe's population and never recovered.. Europe would have been engulfed by Mongols (or some other Eastern power). Then, would the East have concentrated on taking Europe or would they have gone on to colonize the Americas? Would China, Japan and others had the need to colonize new lands across the Pacific or would they have left it all together resulting in an America with its indigineous civilizations untouched by outside.. (Maybe perhaps resulting in sort of like a Papua-New-Guinea-style-of-existence that many tribes in that country are in today or maybe even Africa, for the Americas)..
Would that hvae been the likely result of today (with an America untouched and with vast forests and tribes living in isolation) if it was the East who have gone on to dominate world politics?
Yes, exactly my point too I was trying to make earlier. Be careful.. Sure Honda, Mazda, Motorola, Toyota etc Yes, sure they are all Eastern companies etc BUT they are still a product of Western influence and not something that came out of Eastern culture..
And the same with the topic above.. Sure, Japan is an Eastern nation and a very developed nation. But, it is developed because it has Westernized itself in order to survive. Its becoming successful is not because it developed from the Japanese themselves but from ideas that came from the West.
Another example I'd like to point out.. I know it is too tempting to think that we would all be wearing clothes similar to the Emperor of China's if we were living in an Easternized world.. But it is absurd to think that because say if we DID live in an Easternized world and then I go on this forum and start a thread 'What if the West Had Won And Not the East' then people start talking about 'Ohh, we probably would be wearing breeches and capes and women would be wearing corsettes and etc'.. Do you see my point?? Clothing would have developed from then on no matter if it was the East or West that dominated the world..
Hendryk is probably the best person to give you ideas on what it would be like.