I am not sure what would be my ideal partion of Germany. Mainly becouse there is so many possibilities to chose from? But to me internal partion within Germany and internal social, economic, cultural change is as important as external border changes.
Ideal Partition of Germany?
- Thread starter Vylon Disigma
- Start date
A naton which had been occupied and gave all it still had in resources to the UK/USA is a state which was "on the [fucking] sidelines"??!! Have you no fucking decency! It is not WW1 we're talking about. According to your obvious standard Poland sat out the war just as much: its land occupied, its armies destroyed, its navy destroyed, its air force destroyed, its natural resources captured, and all that remained were individuals whom managed to get out. The Netherlands gave its military remnants, remaining territories and remaining free personnel over to the USA and the UK.
Suriname, Curaçao, Bonnaire, Aruba, Saba, Sint Eustatius, and Sint Maarten had been occupied by the USA even if not in name from the moment the Germans invaded the Netherlands proper. The DEI remained 'independent' in name only and functioned as directed by the British and later the USA only to be concorred in 1941 itself with all Dutch or rather all white civillians locked up in Japanese interment camps, captured Dutch soldiers were interned and turned into slaves just like the French, British (Australian etc etc incluis) and American soldiers. And now you tell me that that equals to "sitting out the war"!?
Becouse of the Dutch getting conquered they were unable to contribute as much as others to the war effort.
So, you kind of just don't understand geopolitics then.
It isn't about rewarding the Dutch or the Danes or the French or anyone else at all. It's about punishing Germany. And if punishing Germany means handing over territory to the Netherlands or Denmark or France or whoever, then that is what will happen.
See my edit. Also, the Danes were given territory after the first world war, despite not even being a combatant. So were the Dutch, even. That alone should tell you that your position in this discussion isn't exactly strong.
Border changes in Central Europe were not intented to be ''rewards" or "punishment" (with exception of Königsberg, it was symbolic-Russia getting part of Germany, which she didn't need as sign of victory, whole "warm water port" is BS). Border changes were intended to create long lasting conflicts between Central European states, that Moscow could use to play divide et impera. For example Stalin hoped, that Oder-Neisse border would make Poles forever dependent on Russia due to fear of another German invasion. Polish government in exile was aware about it and showed dissinterest towards Breslau and Stettin.
Denmark was given territory after WW1 becouse the allies wanted to weaken Germany, and not becouse of anything Denmark did, atleast to my knowledge. This territory they got was mostly ethnically Danish, so Denmark had some "claim" to it. I get that this might be something France or Britain can be intrested in. But i think that only participants can get some of the war prize, and that there share of the booty should be determined by their contribution and loss.
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All I did was upscale a worlda, didn't have much time to slam a proper map together.This image has given me idea: divide Germany into pixels!
See, but I want more Germanic nations, not less
I mainly tried to follow dialect lines, but I made some acceptions here and there.
I would begin with the 1919 borders of Germany. From there...
- Pomerania and Silesia would be given to Poland, along with half of East Prussia
- The other half of East Prussia (including Koenigsberg) would go to Russia (warm-water port)
- Austria and Luxembourg would remain independent, with the former as a neutral, non-aligned state explicitly forbidden from unifying with Germany
I think the Roosewelf plan looks okay, I would personal change the names slightly (Bavaria-Swabia, Lower Saxony-Westphalia, Hesse-Palatinate and Brandenburg-Mecklenburg).
Beside that I would give Upper Silesia to Poland, make (East) Prussia a SSR, drop the international zones and integrate them in the neighboring states Lower Saxony for Cologne and Hessen for Saarland, force Netherlands (the OTL plan) and Denmark (South Schleswig) to expand. Next I would ensure there was only one occupying power in every new state.
Beside that I would give Upper Silesia to Poland, make (East) Prussia a SSR, drop the international zones and integrate them in the neighboring states Lower Saxony for Cologne and Hessen for Saarland, force Netherlands (the OTL plan) and Denmark (South Schleswig) to expand. Next I would ensure there was only one occupying power in every new state.
Hi everyone! I think the plan with the greatest chance of long-term success would be one that furthered the goal of the powers involved.
Based on my understanding, these goals were, for the USSR:
- ensure the maximum amount of reparations paid
- create a buffer of neutral or allied states to protect Soviet territory
- remove Germany as a threat
For the UK:
- deny the Soviets influence and territory
- weaken Germany to prevent WW3
- tie the Americans down so they won't leave the UK alone against Stalin
For the US:
- create a stable post war order so the US can turn their attention to Asia
- recreate democracy in Germany
Anything I'm missing?
Based on my understanding, these goals were, for the USSR:
- ensure the maximum amount of reparations paid
- create a buffer of neutral or allied states to protect Soviet territory
- remove Germany as a threat
For the UK:
- deny the Soviets influence and territory
- weaken Germany to prevent WW3
- tie the Americans down so they won't leave the UK alone against Stalin
For the US:
- create a stable post war order so the US can turn their attention to Asia
- recreate democracy in Germany
Anything I'm missing?