Devolved
This doesn't sound good for our heroine?
Steve
Well personally I think its more fitting that she be lost in combat rather than being broken up for razor blades post war.
Happy and Glorious.
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Well personally I think its more fitting that she be lost in combat rather than being broken up for razor blades post war.
Don't worry about the Glorious ITTL.
I was talking about the book version that will be available in a few weeks.
In the book I was thinking about having the Glorious damaged by an Italian torpedo bomber in 1940. That was why I asked about her anti torpedo protection against Italian torpedoes.
Mr Warspite answered that she would be a gonna if hit. My opinion is that just one torpedo amidships would damage her but not sink her.
Just thought I would have Glorious do something between surviving Norway and fighting the Bismarck.
I was talking about the book version that will be available in a few weeks.
In the book I was thinking about having the Glorious damaged by an Italian torpedo bomber in 1940. That was why I asked about her anti torpedo protection against Italian torpedoes.
Mr Warspite answered that she would be a gonna if hit. My opinion is that just one torpedo amidships would damage her but not sink her.
Just thought I would have Glorious do something between surviving Norway and fighting the Bismarck.
All depends on where the hit will occur. HMS Courageous was hit in critical spaces of the ship, while a hit on the extreme forward, or aft part of the ship will not result in such catastrophic damage. The Corageous class had a relatively long bowsection, so a hit there will not be that damaging normaly, if damagecontrol is good to cope with the local flooding. Flooding large compartments on a relatively slender hull is not recommended, as Courageous already showed. (Flooding of the large boiler and engine rooms for instance.) Technically the whole bow can be blown off by a large warhead, while the ship can remain afloat, if properly sealed. Several cruisers survived that way in WW2. A simmilar hit aft, behind the shafts, can also be survived, though the ship will be crippled and unable to steer, needing assistance of tugs to get away.
Thanks for the info. I wanted to run it by a few people here before I released the story to a wider audience.
It may be better to have the Glorious hit by a couple of small bombs that the Italians used in 1940. It's simply a plot device to get the Glorious out of the Med and back to the UK to fight the Bismarck.
I was thinking that if Glorious survived OTL the temptation to replace the Eagle in the Mediterranean would be too great for the Admiralty.
Well personally I think its more fitting that she be lost in combat rather than being broken up for razor blades post war.
The Oncoming Storm
There I must admit you have a point, although there is also the matter of the crew to consider.
However it seems like I was raising a false alarm.
Steve
One point of notice: An unarmored carrier like the Courageous Class, was not very well designed to take on bomb hits on the flightdeck, or hangar. It could survive such hits, but nearly always would need a considerable time in the repairyard to fix all the damage of the bombhits and the likely secdondary damage, basically by fire. Any aircraft carrier is bascially a floating fueldump, also loaded with explosive ordonance for the aircraft.
Therefore bombs can hit the bow, forward of the hangar (= forward of the fore elevator) with little effect, since there are no large amounts of inflameble fluids and explosives there. Due to the bascial design of the Glorious, such hits on the bow would require some patching up at best, but that would likely take not longer than a few weeks, compared to drastic repairs of the hangar and flightdeck, when set ablaze by bombs in the midship section.
Also of interest is that the Regia Aeronautica used various types of ordonance: varying of standard weapons of 100 kg, 250 kg and 500 kg HE and SAP bombs. There are reports of rare 800 kg bombs, but these are not confirmed. The 100 kg was the weapon of choice, as it allowed multiple strikes, with a larger change of scoring a hit. 250 kg and 500 kg were more intended for high value targets, with precission attack. My suggestion is that the Regia Aeronautica will likley use the 100 kg bomb as weapon against the carrier in the early stages of the war, simply as the 1940 period of these hostilities were merely to test out weapons and tactics. A bomb of 100 kg (= 225 lbs) is already quite capable to inflict heavy damage on unarmored ships.
The Regia Aeronautica also made use of smaller bombs, mainly against land targets. These varied in size between 40 kg and 100 kg. In case of Glorious, hits fore and aft of the hangar were not so problematic. Hits in the hangar were.
What he said
There are a number of areas a hit will be damaging but not fatal, so just work backwards from what you want as a result. To be honest, even ignoring the exact location of the hit torpedo damage was a bit pot-luck in WW2 anyway. And an aerial torpedo is unlikely to take out a carrier unless you get a golden hit on a prop-shaft, they just didnt carry enough explosive (especially in 1940)
What he said
There are a number of areas a hit will be damaging but not fatal, so just work backwards from what you want as a result. To be honest, even ignoring the exact location of the hit torpedo damage was a bit pot-luck in WW2 anyway. And an aerial torpedo is unlikely to take out a carrier unless you get a golden hit on a prop-shaft, they just didnt carry enough explosive (especially in 1940)
I agree that an aerial torpedo from an Italian bomber in 1940 is unlikely to sink the Glorious but to avoid the issue I think it's maybe better to have her hit by a 100kg bomb (common in 1940) and leave it at that.
The main purpose is simply to damage the Glorious enough to get her out of the Med and into a repair yard in the UK. Then she can return to service just in time to fight the Bismarck.
On this thread I originally had the Glorious have a reft and then sit around in Scapa for many months. I don't readers of a book version will accept that. They will rightly wonder why the ship wasn't doing something more, especially in the Med.
usertron2020
Donor
Astrodragon did something similar in his Whale has Wings TL. When he had the aircraft carrier (converted to seaplane tender) USS Langley make her OTL voyage to Java to deliver badly needed fighters for the island's defense, she took one small bomb hit at the extreme bow. (1) Because she was no longer operating aircraft, this neither affected her operations nor caused any losses or damages to her aircraft cargo.
1) As opposed to her falling under a wave of air attacks as OTL, the Langley in "Whale" had strong land-based CAP cover, keeping her from being lost, and allowing her to complete her mission.
1) As opposed to her falling under a wave of air attacks as OTL, the Langley in "Whale" had strong land-based CAP cover, keeping her from being lost, and allowing her to complete her mission.
Actually I admit to cheating a lot when it comes to the specific damage done to a particular ship.
The number of hits are in keeping with actual war results (if anything, the Axis are more accurate and the Allies less accurate), but the results of the hits are designed to fit in with the plot.
Yes, I have a plot! Really!! Its just hidden under the coffee mug...
The number of hits are in keeping with actual war results (if anything, the Axis are more accurate and the Allies less accurate), but the results of the hits are designed to fit in with the plot.
Yes, I have a plot! Really!! Its just hidden under the coffee mug...
usertron2020
Donor
Actually I admit to cheating a lot when it comes to the specific damage done to a particular ship.
The number of hits are in keeping with actual war results (if anything, the Axis are more accurate and the Allies less accurate), but the results of the hits are designed to fit in with the plot.
Yes, I have a plot! Really!! (1) Its just hidden under the coffee mug...
I wouldn't have called that cheating.
It's tough to aim when British slugs are running through your unarmoured non-selfsealing fuel-tanked lightly-armed and unescorted bomber...1) May the weight of a thousand whales descend on any who would ever suggest otherwise!
It's not dead, it's just resting.
I'm still working on the book version which is very different from what is written here. I may post something soon and maybe a snippet from the book version to see if it passes the test of knowledgeable people on this site.
That is some rest this tl is worse than my wife.
The downside of having a job. I was hoping February but it has been growing into a new kind of book. Maybe June.
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