German HSF Sortie March 1918 ~ V.III ~

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March 23rd 1918

In Germany, the morning papers of the 23rd March 1918 all carried the same front page story. The SMS Von der Tann had come into the Jade late the previous evening and to great fanfare. The papers again ran with the High Seas Fleet's victory over the Grand Fleet and more individual stories of heroism were written about the crews and the ships, and below that there were reprints of the previous day's news. Massive gains on the Western Front in France and Belgium and the victory at sea all still gave massive moral boosts to the civilian population of Germany.

In Britain, the papers ran the stories that had filtered out of Germany the previous day. Late that afternoon, the radio started to buzz with news reports that only 1 Battleship and 2 Battlecruiers (5 Battleships and 11 Battlecruisers had sortied, but 2 BC had been damaged and forced to return earlier) had returned to Rosyth, meaning that 4 Battleships and 7 Battlecruisers had been lost or crippled. This was a blow as the German press had only claimed 4 ships. In the absence of reliable information from either the government or the Admiralty, the British public started to fear the worst and many people rushed to the fleet anchorages and naval offices to try and get news of loved ones. This in turn forced the government and Admiralty to issue a statement in the early evening saying that the remainder of the ships was due to arrive back during the night due to several damaged ships being under tow. The brief statement issued said that further news would be issued at 11am the following day when Rear-Admiral Henry Oliver (Battlecruisers), Rear-Admiral Evan Thomas (5th Battle Squadron) had reported to the Admiralty and told them what had happened.

This had the effect of appeasing the British public - for the time being - and families returned home to await the promised broadcast at 11am the following day.


March 24th 1918

A lull seemed to hang over Britain the following morning and just before 11am the country ground to a halt as the public tuned into the government broadcast. The First Sea Lord himself made the broadcast. He stated simply that the High Seas Fleet had attacked the Dover-Calais Mine Barrier and sunk several of the light ships that had been guarding it. The German ships had fled when the Channel Fleet had been sighted, but they had been intercepted by the 1st and 2nd Battlecruiser Squadrons accompanied by the 5th Battle Squadron.

He continued that the 1st and 2nd Battlecruiser Squadrons, along with the 5th Battle Squadron of the Grand Fleet had intercepted the retiring High Seas Fleet at midday on 21st March and fought a battle in the Broad Fourteens area off the Island of Texel. During the Battle, one British Battleship had been sunk by torpedoes and two British Battlecruisers had been sunk in combat. A third one had succumbed to battle damage several hours after combat ended and while under tow. He said that the ships outstanding from yesterday had all made port during the night and were now being attended to as required. Miraculously, no British Light Cruisers had been sunk, but many of their escorting destroyers were either damaged or destroyed and lists were still being complied.

He continued that the German Fleet had run the gauntlet of British ships and retired into a channel they had swept through a British minefield. The British ships were under orders not to be drawn onto a minefield so they retired at that time. As the Germans had retired while under fire he said, the battle could be considered a victory for the Grand Fleet and the Empire as, like after Jutland, the Grand Fleet remained at sea after the High Seas Fleet had returned to port.

Known German losses were restrained to torpedo boats and destroyers he said, but German reports as to the extent of damage on their ships was incorrect. All the German capital ships had been severely damaged and would require extensive dockyard repairs before being able to return to sea ~ If at all. As such he said the German claims that the majority of their Battlecruiser Squadron was battle ready and undamaged were complete lies designed to attempt to delude the British public into believing that the Grand Fleet had come off worse than it had. This he said was impossible, as the majority of the British fleet never left it's anchorage in Scapa Flow, and as such, was fully intact and combat ready.

The First Lord concluded his statement saying that casualty lists were being prepared by the Admiralty, but could not be issued until all ships had given casualty lists to the appropriate departments. He hoped this would be within 24 hours and urged those with family in the navy to be patient and allow the Admiralty to issue accurate information at the appropriate time.

The Admiralty had also issued a statement to the papers and radio services containing additional details, which were put out as soon as the First Sea Lord finished his broadcast. Given the Admiralty title of the statement The Battle off the Island of Texel - March 21st 1918, the press assumed this was the official name of the battle and so Die Schlacht in den Breiten Vierzehn in Germany became The Battle of Texel in England. These further details which stated what ships were sunk and which were damaged did nothing to ease the British public. Quite simply it said that the Battleship USS Malaya along with the Battlecruisers HMS Princess Royal and HMS Australia had been sunk during combat. The HMS Indomitable had foundered after combat despite best efforts to save her. The two Battlecruisers that had returned to port early with damage were the HMS Courageous and HMS Glorious, and they had been attacked by a submarine, which in turn had been sunk.

Naturally enough, this statement did much to reassure the families of those ships that were already in port, but for those people with family on the sunken ships, panic occurred. Were their loved ones alive or dead? Again, the naval offices were flooded with people. Less than last time however, as it was only those people with family on sunken ships that crowded them this time, desperately searching for news. Over the next several days, accurate lists of injured, dead and missing personnel were issued and people were either relieved or began to grieve for their loss.

Elsewhere in the United Kingdom, all dockyard facilities suitable for taking the damaged warships are told to clear out their facilities of non-essential work. All dry-docks that can accommodate a damaged warship and that can be emptied are to be emptied and made ready to repair ships damaged at The Battle of Texel. Armour, gun and equipment manufactures have orders placed for the required equipment. More orders will follow as more detailed reports come in. Also, the storage facilities that hold the spare gun barrels for the Royal Navy are made ready as replacement gun barrels will be required for several ships.
 
Just a question:

What became of the British Battlecruisers HMS Renown and Repulse, as both were earlier stated to have been damaged to some degrees? Given their overall weak protection and large size, prior to their postwar refits, damage caused by large calliber shellfire is likely to have caused damage in their vitals. (6 inch armor was the thickest they had, before their upgrades in the early twenties. Only the gunturrets adn barbettes had slightly more armor, but decks did not reach more thincknes than 1.5 inch as designed.) At least Renown was hit hard, it seemed, so she could very well have succumbed to secodnary damage later on, as large fires could easlily have consumed her. The pressence of large ammounts of ready to use ammunitions of the secondary 4 inch batteries, would certainly have had a negative effect on this too.
 
Repulse was not hit as hard as the last version. She was still damaged, but it was not as serious. She was one of the three ships that returned earlier than the rest. HMS Repulse and HMS Lion escorted HMS Warspite into port as she could make better speed than the ships under tow.

HMS Renown has a broken back, HMS Repulse and HMS Tiger have upperworks damage. HMS Lion is the least damaged here but still has substancial upperworks damage.

HMS Renown has a broken back but makes port under tow of HMS Tiger. She will go straight into dock for a major overhaul as will HMS Tiger. When they are released HMS Lion and HMS Repulse will both go in for their overhauls. In the meantime, HMS Lion and HMS Repulse will just be made good ASAP.

The refits to all four ships will do as much as possible to rectify their armor defects. They will get battleship armor at the expense of speed. In essence they will become Fast Battleships, as will the four Admirals which will be put on hold (Again) while they are redesigned.

I get ahead of myself though. I will deal with the damage and refits shortly.
 
Repulse was not hit as hard as the last version. She was still damaged, but it was not as serious. She was one of the three ships that returned earlier than the rest. HMS Repulse and HMS Lion escorted HMS Warspite into port as she could make better speed than the ships under tow.

HMS Renown has a broken back, HMS Repulse and HMS Tiger have upperworks damage. HMS Lion is the least damaged here but still has substancial upperworks damage.

HMS Renown has a broken back but makes port under tow of HMS Tiger. She will go straight into dock for a major overhaul as will HMS Tiger. When they are released HMS Lion and HMS Repulse will both go in for their overhauls. In the meantime, HMS Lion and HMS Repulse will just be made good ASAP.

The refits to all four ships will do as much as possible to rectify their armor defects. They will get battleship armor at the expense of speed. In essence they will become Fast Battleships, as will the four Admirals which will be put on hold (Again) while they are redesigned.

I get ahead of myself though. I will deal with the damage and refits shortly.


Perhaps the still not laid down Hood Class??? will be canceled in favour of the new breed, to be designed with a more lengthy study of the war itself and the testing of new ordonance on obsolete and eventually captured vessels. G-3 and so on makes more sense, as these were far more potent than yet another weakly protected battlecruiser of battleship of a basically prewar design. (at least in deck armor naturaly, as HMS Hood in the OTL was well protected against level shelling at short range.)
 
HMS Hood was laid down by this time in the war I believe. That is why she survived yet her sisters did not. I will check the dates here.
 
Here we are.

HMS Hood.
Laid down: 1 September 1916
Launched: 22 August 1918
Commissioned: 15 May 1920

HMS Anson, Howe & Rodney.
Laid down in 1916, construction suspended in March 1917 and cancelled in October 1918.

Think of the class re-designed to something like the the 'K-2' Class.

Edit: A 'K-2' with 15" guns that is!
 
Here is a technical question for everybody.

Assuming Washington 1922 was a failure, the RN was planning to build 4x N-3 BB and 4x G-3 BC.

As it is, OTL Washington 1922 was a success and the 4x N-3 BB became 2x O-3 BB (Nelson Class) and the 4x G-3 BC were totally dropped.

Given that the G-3 is supposed to be the last design of British Battlecruiser (or Fast Battleship) ever (Excluding HMS Vanguard [1946] as a Fast Battleship), how come I see sketches for an F-2 and F-3 class floating around?

I thought the Battlecruisers were 'K' backwards ending in the G-3's, with the Battleships being 'L' upwards?
 
Here is a technical question for everybody.

Assuming Washington 1922 was a failure, the RN was planning to build 4x N-3 BB and 4x G-3 BC.

As it is, OTL Washington 1922 was a success and the 4x N-3 BB became 2x O-3 BB (Nelson Class) and the 4x G-3 BC were totally dropped.

Given that the G-3 is supposed to be the last design of British Battlecruiser (or Fast Battleship) ever (Excluding HMS Vanguard [1946] as a Fast Battleship), how come I see sketches for an F-2 and F-3 class floating around?

I thought the Battlecruisers were 'K' backwards ending in the G-3's, with the Battleships being 'L' upwards?


Naval designers continued to draw designs of succeeding warships, as this would keep them focused on new technology and keep the designs up to date. If this was not done, some more troubles would appear, when finally designing new ships from scratch, such as eventually was done by the Germans, due to their Versailles Treaty limmitations.

The K-2 design is unknown to me, but I know of a K-3 adn K-4 design, with either three tripples, or four twin mountings of a smaller caliber gun, propably 12 inch or so. Many designs between the period after the signing of the Washington Naval Treaty and the second half of the 30's were focussed on smaller dimensions and smaller main calliber guns for the future battleships. 11 and 12 inch was prefered at a displacement of around 25,000 tons at best. The major reason was to force the USA and Japan to junk away their existing fleets and to replace their ships by new smaller ones, against the British had an advantage in numbers, as they would start massproducing these, simmilar to the original Dreadnought race of the early 20'th century. Eventually, this came to nothing, as both the USA and Japan refused to renegotiate.
 
K-2: (Probably your K-4, but the number denoted the number of barrels/turret so a 4 barreled ship???)

Oct. 1921

Length: 850ft (885 oa)
Width: 106ft
Draught: 33ft
Disp: 53,100 tons
SHP: 144,000

Armament:
8 x 18” (4x2)
16 x 6” (8x2)
6 x 4.7”
4 pom-poms
2 x TT

K-2’s design looks rather like a “super-Hood”, with a tower in place of the forward tripod, and with similar disposition of the main armament. Flush deck design.

There is a Russian website with the design pics on but I can't get it at work. Will post piccy tonight.

I chose her as the Admiral refit as she has very similar dimensions to the Admirals (ex tonnage) and same SHP. If you strip the 18" guns back to 15" guns you can save some weight and get her down to perhaps 50,000 tons. Hood was 45,000+ tons so not much of an increase given her freeboard and length will be increased.

Admiral Dimensions:
Length: 860ft (oa)
Beam: 104ft
Draught: 33ft
Displacement 45,200 tons
SPH: 144,000
 

MrP

Banned
If you've Brown, The Grand Fleet, HMS Warspite, K2 is mentioned on p.174 of my copy with approximately the details Eternity's given.
 
How approximate is approximate MrP? Also, does that book have pictures/sketches of the classes in it?

Thanks.
 

MrP

Banned
How approximate is approximate MrP? Also, does that book have pictures/sketches of the classes in it?

Thanks.

Sadly, it lacks a K2 sketch. Dimensions are pretty close. I am loath to be definitive, as I am thoroughly inebriated, and thus might embarrass myself with errors. So I'll go with pics now, that any errors will be limited to blurred photographs!

A1.jpg


A2.jpg
 
ok new update.

Hope it answers your questions about the subs etc and that the damage I have given the HSF ships is acceptable along with the repair times. NOTE: The repair times given are aimed to be true IF spare material and parts are available immediatly. Repairs will naturally drag past the given times if parts are not available.

--------------------------------------------

March 25th 1918

In Germany, the morning papers of the 25th March still carried their official government stories regarding the battle, and the government insisted that the British stories were mostly lies. They did however concede that the damage to their ships could be worse than their initial reports and statements suggested. In the Admiralstab however, things were beginning to come much clearer.

Admiral Holtzendorff was beginning to solve the question of what had happened with their intelligence. With the British saying that their fleet never sailed from Scapa Flow or the Clyde, then that explained why those submarines or Zeppelins never saw or attacked any ships sailing from those ports. What about Rosyth however? German submarines were placed outside that port too. How come they never reported those ships sailing, especially as the British were saying that two of their large cruisers had been torpedoed and forced to return to port. Yes, they claimed that submarine sunk, but there were four other submarines stationed in the area. What about them?

Admiral Holtzendorff didn't know it at the time, but the two Northern most submarines had been too far North to sight or intercept the British sortie. Of the other three, one had run onto a mine en-route and been sunk and the other two had taken up their stations an sighted the British sortie. Both had attacked the British ships and one had scored hits on both the HMS Courageous and HMS Glorious with her salvo. This is what forced them to return to port. After the British ships had passed, and their escorts had stopped hunting for the submarine that had attacked the British squadron, both submarines had surfaced to report in.

It was at that point that the luck of these two submarines changed. The one that had successfully attacked had the unfortunate luck of being spotted in the dusk whilst surfacing by an aircraft that had taken over from the destroyers. It only carried light bombs but it pressed home its attack while radioing the RN as to it's location. While the bombs didn't seriously damage the submarine, they did force it to submerge, and more RN destroyers then forced it to remain submerged for the next day during which time it could not report the enemy sailing. The captain of this submarine was not overly concerned about this as there were four other submarines to report the fleet ~ Until he surfaced to return to Germany that is and learned that nobody had reported the British ships. While not serious, the damage to the submarine prohibited a long patrol at sea.

The other submarine surfaced and attempted to send it's alert signal only to find that it's radio was damaged. The radio could be repaired, but it would take time this submarine's captain was told. As such, while having it repaired he went in search of another submarine. He chose the nearest patrolling submarine and headed South to locate it and have her send the signal. Luck was not with him thought as this was the submarine that had hit a mine on her way to patrol outside Rosyth.

By the time this captain realized that she was missing and swung North (The sunken submarine was the Southern most one) to find one of those submarines, he had run out of time before Dawn. With his radio still not repaired and patrolling aircraft about, he was forced to submerge without radioing his warning either. He too was worried, but not overly so for he also believed that at least 3 other submarines would have sent warnings back to Germany.

Both of these submarines eventually managed to radio in by late on the 25th March, along with their Northern comrades. This would tell Admiral Holtzendorff what had happened with those four submarines ~ Bad luck. Pure and simple. The fifth submarine was declared missing several days later when she failed to report in. This was confirmed some time later when she never returned to port.

For this failure, Admiral Holtzendorff submitted his resignation to the Kaiser. The official reason given to the public was due to ill health, but in reality it was because as Commander-in-Chief such a failure was ultimately his responsibility ~ Whatever the reason. His resignation on the grounds of ill health was accepted by the Kaiser who appointed Admiral Scheer to Commander-in-Chief in his place, and Admiral Hipper to Fleet Commander in place of Admiral Scheer the next day.

Meanwhile in Wilhelmshaven, the High Seas Fleet was taking in the price of her victory. All of the ships that sortied were damaged to some extent. Although losses were limited to torpedo boats and destroyers, all of the heavy ships had been hit. The Cruisers that had sortied were lucky and with the exception of the one that had hit a mine, the rest only suffered splinter and light shell hits and all would be repaired within two weeks. The cruiser that hit a mine, the SMS Nurenberg would require approximately 8 weeks in dry-dock for the damage to be put right. Of the 7 destroyers and 54 torpedo boats that sortied, a total of 21 vessels have been lost in combat, and another 12 had been disabled and left behind and were presumed sunk. The remaining 4 destroyers and 24 torpedo boats were all damaged to some degree but initial surveys and reports indicated that if spare parts, equipment and labour were readily available then they would all be repaired within 8 weeks. The Battlecruisers were not as lucky however as even though they had all returned to report, they all had extensive damage.

The SMS Von der Tann was a constructive loss. Her bow and stern were wrecked and her engines were destroyed. The engine mounts were also twisted which indicated a twisted keel. She had extensive damage throughout the rest of the ship, but due to the extent of her hull damage the decision was taken to salvage what was possible, and scrap the ship. Although the main guns were 11"/45 Caliber, they could be used to replace the 11"/50 Caliber guns on the SMS Moltke if required. If not, they could go into storage. The other salvaged fittings would be re-used where possible.

The SMS Moltke mainly had damage to her guns and upper works. There was below-water hull damage that would require dry-docking to put right but it was not too extensive and could be put right in 3 weeks once dry-docked. Her extensive damage was to her weapons. All of her secondary guns were damaged or destroyed and would require replacement. As sufficient guns were not ready, the decision was taken to plate over the gun ports for the six guns below her aft funnel until replacements were available. Her main guns required even more extensive work. The port-wing turret was damaged by a nearby shell hit and just required a few parts to repair and could be put right in 1 week as parts were available. Her starboard-wing turret had received a shell hit that struck the barbette and this had jammed the turret. The shell was a dud and once it was removed, and the damaged plate cut away the turret moved freely again. New armor would be required and this would take time to produce. Her aft super-firing turret was destroyed however and a new turret would need to be made. Other damage included a new forward mast, a new aft mast and replacement aft super-structure. As this was superficial damage she would not require dry-docking again after her hull was repaired. The damage would take time though, but she would be fully operational without these repairs.

The SMS Seylditz had extensive damage forward and aft. The forward damage was destroyed crew quarters as at Jutland and was superficial as the bow was not damaged below the waterline. She had been hit below the waterline amidships and astern and would require 3 weeks in dry-dock for this to be repaired. Both of her aft turrets were disabled as well. The lower turret was completely wrecked and needed to be replaced but the super-firing turret just required new gun barrels. In addition, her aft superstructure was burnt out and the aft mast destroyed. Her aft funnel was also shot away above the armored base and this would need to be repaired before she put to sea again. The aft super-structure and mast were cosmetic like the SMS Moltke and could be repaired later. All of her aft secondary guns also needed replacement, but only the lower 6" guns were immediate as the upper four were mounted in the super-structure that was burnt out.

The SMS Derfflinger required dry-docking for shell hits below the waterline. As she had only received light underwater damage she would only need docking for 10 days or so, but she also had a damaged shaft that would require replacement after a new one was fabricated. She would therefore need to go back into dock once this was made. She also required a complete set of secondary guns and like the other Battlecruisers she had suffered a fire. Hers was around her aft turrets and was by far the worst of the fires. Although the turrets were operational, work would be required to straighten out bulkheads and decks in the area which may in turn cause problems for the turrets, but only time would tell on this.

As with all the other Battlecruisers, the SMS Hindenburg also had underwater damage and required dry-docking to have this put right. She had also suffered extensive hull damage through heavy caliber shell hits and required new armor plates to be manufactured. All of the Battlecruisers would need new armor plates, but the SMS Hindenburg needed the most. She also required new masts and all but 3 of her secondary guns required replacing. In addition, her 'D' turret had burnt out and required replacement. As it happened, none of the German ships damaged would be fully repaired before the war ended. Her industry simply could not cope in such a short with the extent of the damage that the ships had received.

Meanwhile on the Western front, the German offensive was going better than anybody had dared hope. The Storm-trooper tactics were a great success as far as the army was concerned, and the British and Belgium armies were retreating before them.

The offensive was going so well in fact, that General Hindenburg threw in his reserve forces and ordered the Lys Offensive to start early in the hope that he could capitalize on the Allied disarray. There were however the beginnings of discord among some troops as they secured Allied supply dumps. This was stamped out quickly, but the seeds of a greater problem were still sown.....
 
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By August 1916 all damage sustained at Jutland had been repaired on the German ships, damage ITL doesn't seem to deviate from the Jutland pattern; so: March, April, May - and they ought to be back in service.
The big domestic supply crisis started only in June.

Also, I wouldn't overstress the 'supply dump sojourn' (although it was Ludendorff himself who stressed it in the first place). It did happen, but it was not the major factor in slowing German advance.
Advancing in the 'Somme Desert' and the 'Alberich devastation' - there were far too few useable roads for too many transports, thus there were endless congestions - the German artillery was hardly ever able to be present in strength and with sufficient ammunition. (The British had done supply here with narrow gauge railways, which were not available to the advancing Germans.)
 
The big domestic supply crisis started only in June.
True, but when you are talking the manufacture of new 12" gun barrels and turrets, whole 6" gun assemblies and armor plate.....

Guns take time to build as do things like engines and armor plate. Plain metal plate (Superstructure/masts) would be easy to replace I agree but the guns would take longer (Unless like the RN the HSF had a ready supply in storage) As to armor, I have no idea how long that takes, but I can't imagine that the manufacture of a 14" armor plate is a quick thing. As such, while hull damage can be repaired in a few weeks, and as such the ships are fit to put to sea, they may not be 100% repaired and combat ready for longer.

With German industry under pressure in 1918, the ships may not be fully repaired before the end of the war as I plan to bring that forward.....

Also, I wouldn't overstress the 'supply dump sojourn'
Not planning to yet as it will take at least a month before that starts. So far the Germans would only have a few small forward dumps and as such any 'luxuries' found could be passed of as officers rations. The problem will arise as they push further and find the larger dumps. ITTL the Spring Offensive will just go a bit faster and further than OTL.
 
True, but when you are talking the manufacture of new 12" gun barrels and turrets, whole 6" gun assemblies and armor plate.....

Guns take time to build as do things like engines and armor plate. Plain metal plate (Superstructure/masts) would be easy to replace I agree but the guns would take longer (Unless like the RN the HSF had a ready supply in storage) As to armor, I have no idea how long that takes, but I can't imagine that the manufacture of a 14" armor plate is a quick thing. As such, while hull damage can be repaired in a few weeks, and as such the ships are fit to put to sea, they may not be 100% repaired and combat ready for longer.

With German industry under pressure in 1918, the ships may not be fully repaired before the end of the war as I plan to bring that forward.....


Not planning to yet as it will take at least a month before that starts. So far the Germans would only have a few small forward dumps and as such any 'luxuries' found could be passed of as officers rations. The problem will arise as they push further and find the larger dumps. ITTL the Spring Offensive will just go a bit faster and further than OTL.


Actually the Germans had quite a large supply of ready to fit in gunbarrels, simmilar to the British. Krupp had continued to construct these, as there were actually ordered more guns than realy needed to fit in the ships ordered. Many of these guns, both 11 inch and 12 inch besides even some 15 inchers, were allocated to other uses, such as coastal batteries and railwayguns, simply because they were there.

An example is the typical German Railwaygun of the period was the 28 cm Kz.Br.K (E), or the "Kurze Bruno Kanone (Eisenbahn)", a gun with a caliber of 28.3 cm/40 cal, simmilar to the same guns used on SMS Deutschland and Braunsweich class Predreadnoughts. (The more famous K5 Lange Bruno of the WW2 period had a gunbarrel of 58 calliber, simmilar to the ones fitted on the battleships of the Scharnhorst Class of the same period.) Simmilarly, the 28 cm SK L/45 gun of the Nassau and Von der Tann classes was also used on a simmilar mount. Five larger 38 cm/45 (14.96") SK L/45 guns were installed at the Belgian/French coast, slightly north of Dunkerque. These were barrels originally intended to be the main armament of the Würtemberg and Sachsen, the second pair of the Baden Class.
 
As far as I can tell from the damage I have given the ships:

Von der Tann ~ Wrecked.
Moltke ~ Aft super-firing turret (Forgot to put that in, now corrected) needs replacing.
Seylditz ~ Lower aft turret needs replacing.
Derfflinger ~ New propeller shaft.
Hindenburg ~ D turret (Lower aft) needs replacing.

On top of that all the ships will need new armor plates and new secondary guns to some degree.

Would the HSF have spare 12" turrets knocking about?
How many spare secondary (6", 3.4") complete gun assemblies would they have around too? :confused: :confused: :confused:

I can't imagine they will have a warehouse full of gun turrets in Wilhelmshaven or Kiel! They may have spare gun barrels for the 6" & 3.4" guns around, but not necessarially the rest of the assemblys, as with the turrets..... :confused:
 
As far as I can tell from the damage I have given the ships:

Von der Tann ~ Wrecked.
Moltke ~ Aft super-firing turret (Forgot to put that in, now corrected) needs replacing.
Seylditz ~ Lower aft turret needs replacing.
Derfflinger ~ New propeller shaft.
Hindenburg ~ D turret (Lower aft) needs replacing.

On top of that all the ships will need new armor plates and new secondary guns to some degree.

Would the HSF have spare 12" turrets knocking about?
How many spare secondary (6", 3.4") complete gun assemblies would they have around too? :confused: :confused: :confused:

I can't imagine they will have a warehouse full of gun turrets in Wilhelmshaven or Kiel! They may have spare gun barrels for the 6" & 3.4" guns around, but not necessarially the rest of the assemblys, as with the turrets..... :confused:


As suggested in the previous reply, the Germans had the guns available more or less, but not the turrets, as these complex structures had to be custom made. German industry could do that in a few months, given the gunbarrels themselves were already existing.

There were several spare barrels of the 30.5 cm/50 (12") SK L/50, since some already were installed, or had been mounted in coastal batteries, as well as a few servine in fixed mountings at the Western Front for the army. This type of gun was a mass produced weapons, given the German Navy orders for building several battleships in 1912, of whom some, (Baden adn Bayern) were eventually upgunned to 15 inch, following the news of the Queen Elisabeth Class in the UK. (At least twenty barrels became free for other uses, after this chance. The two half sisters of the first Baden's were ordered from the start with 15 inch.)

The Navy had large stocks of 5.9 inch guns available, as this was the weapon of choice in many vessels of the period. Cruisers and destroyers mounted these, sometimes in variable callibers, but the weapon was common enough, even much later in WW2. Simmilarly the 88 mm SK and AA guns were plenty in supply, being multipurpose for both naval and land uses. (Lost of coastal batteries were equipped with it as were other fortifications on land, far away from the sea.)
 
Wehll the 15" barrels will not be needed..... Yet..... Dunno.....

Anywho,

If all the secondaries need replacing that is cool. I forgot the 5.9" were cruiser and destroyer guns as well. I was thinking WW2 & 8"! lol :eek: :eek:

The new turrets..... Pity they can't be taken from the Nassau Class but they were the same turrets as the Von der Tann. No doubt parts could be approprated but not whole turrets.

So 2-ish months for new turrets. Barrels can be swapped in as required. Secondarys swapped in as required.

Armor is custom to a class so that may take time. Propellor shaft..... mmm Pull one out of the Mackensteins or other 2 Bayerns? Possible I suppose. I doubt that BCs would be THAT much different between classes on the actual propellor shaft. The propellor is fine so are the engines. It is just a swap out there really.

Would three months be satisfactory to get those four ships 100% fully operational again? Mid to end of June for the last one?
 
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