Other than the bombing of Paris, IMHO this TL only needs a 'Suspension of disbelieve' include the bombing of Paris and the ABS have flown the coop!!!
Feel the Bearn - A Timeline of France's Only Carrier in WWII and Beyond
- Thread starter Seafort
- Start date
That campaign was an operational failure ie Admiral De Robeck bottled it after losing 3 obsolete pre-dreadnought battleships to mines when trying to force the Straights - good idea by Churchill but poorly executed by the Navy and subsequant delays and prevarications by the Entente leadership resulted in land forces arriving far too late and gave time for the Ottomans to scrape up the troops to defend the Pennisula
Had the Straights been forced then its possible that the Ottomans might have collapsed (The then US Ambassador to the Ottomans Henry Morganthau certainly thought so) opening the straighs for the Russians (who relied on it for 90% of their trade)
Also Greek troops were availalbe to immediately occupy the Pernnisula but Russia Baulked at the idea of Greeks taking 'Constantinople' which they saw as being in their sphere....and well apparently its all Churchills fault (who was in London thinking WTF is going on?)
Historys a funny old thing
WHile I could absolutely seeing a nasty chain of causality starting, I cannot see civilian targets being bombed purposefully.
So:
Levant crisis
British retaliate, attacking French ships
French retaliate, Maybe bombing/torpedoing the fleet in Alexandria
British attack Bearn, reporting her sunk
French talk to Soviets, maybe agree to something in exchange for moving on British middle-eastern territories? Possibly they get Soviet assistance for home defence too, since their army is still in rough shape.
British strike French naval bases with battleships and carriers, pounding let us say Brest and Toulon severely. In a fit of pique, Churchill also has dive bombers knock over the Eiffel Tower (I know, wouldn't happen; I'm just having a bit of fun)
The problem with all this was that the War in the Pacific was ongoing, and there was immense pressure on all sides to avoid an armed conflict; the Middle East was seen as vital for communications and logistics between Europe and the Pacific, and the Levant Crisis going hot puts that lane at risk for the duration of the conflict. The only reason that Truman allowed the British to move into the French Mandates was because the Syrian Revolt itself was a threat to the region's stability and that the French themselves, should they have resisted, would not last long. The moment the Bearn enters the picture you have leveled the playing field to some degree between the British and French, and a British Intervention into Syria will arguably make the situation worse as there is now a serious risk of the conflict extending beyond Syria, between major Allied powers, and the diversion of resources sorely needed in the Pacific.
In light of such a scenario Truman would have told Churchill to let the French handle Syria on their own, though Truman in turn could apply pressure on De Gaulle to reach a more amicable agreement with the revolutionaries, threatening to withhold military and economic aid should they continue with their iron-fisted approach.
I do realize what the @Seafort was going for, but this really isn't a logical way of achieving that without a lot of handwaving.
In light of such a scenario Truman would have told Churchill to let the French handle Syria on their own, though Truman in turn could apply pressure on De Gaulle to reach a more amicable agreement with the revolutionaries, threatening to withhold military and economic aid should they continue with their iron-fisted approach.
I do realize what the @Seafort was going for, but this really isn't a logical way of achieving that without a lot of handwaving.
Oh come on, there's been a major ASB. France and Britain end up in a shooting war when the war against Nazi Germany is only just coming to an end? It's nonsensical. France is not going to go war with Britain over Syria when the British have just helped to liberate their country. Further, France inviting the USSR in? Again, nonsensical. I'm not criticising the writing. It's entertaining. But call it what it is - ASB.
Appreciate the comments. Others can weigh in, but historically France and the UK - unbelievably - almost came into conflict in Syria. France backed down ultimately because of its weakened state. This timeline simply has France refusing to concede and calling the UK's bluff. Churchill escalates. Then De Gaulle escalates. And so on.
As for France forming an agreement with the USSR - the details of that have yet to be revealed. But in OTL De Gaulle did visit the USSR in 1944 and was courted by them. And he took the Levant Crisis and British intervention very, very poorly.
I'm hoping to provide an explanation for everything in this timeline. Even the "surgical" strike against De Gaulle. Some of the explanations are already hinted at, in plain sight. Hopefully the payoffs will be rewarding, semi-plausible, and entertaining.
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So 1st of all FDR decides to rebuild the Bearn for some reason at the request of a guy he personally dislikes and despite its delays for other far more useful US naval construction. Uh huh loads a handwavium here
2nd of all the crisis in Syria escalates to the point Britain and France decide to shoot each other with Churchill and De Gaulle going off into the deep end all the while there is a war to be fought in the Pacific
3rd of all the US decides not to tell both sides to sit the fuck down and wait until the war is won and doesn't threaten to withhold loans, food or other various supplies to get its way
4th The US decides to allow the Red Army to move into their occupation zone and I'm sure Truman has read and gone through his intel briefs on the USSR
Yeah not quite ASB but enough people need to be drinking lead paint be high on crack that it may as well be
2nd of all the crisis in Syria escalates to the point Britain and France decide to shoot each other with Churchill and De Gaulle going off into the deep end all the while there is a war to be fought in the Pacific
3rd of all the US decides not to tell both sides to sit the fuck down and wait until the war is won and doesn't threaten to withhold loans, food or other various supplies to get its way
4th The US decides to allow the Red Army to move into their occupation zone and I'm sure Truman has read and gone through his intel briefs on the USSR
Yeah not quite ASB but enough people need to be drinking lead paint be high on crack that it may as well be
Point 1: FDR says no to De Gaulle, but says yes to the same request by Henri Giraud as a means of improving the latter's standing with the Free French. It's a somewhat unlikely prospect and it's a point well-taken on resources, but if the US Navy can on some small level can consider a lengthening and massive modernization for the USS Ranger in OTL it is not completely outside of the realm of reality to do the something similar for the Bearn.
Point 2: The Levant Crisis happens fast. The Bearn bolsters French forces in Syria, is attacked, and then sinks the HMS Battler in 24 hours. The US is caught completely offguard by this event. And it escalates quickly afterwards. Bearn is attacked again, British General Paget is killed, HMS Meteor is sunk, Churchill tries to have De Gaulle killed.
Point 3: Churchill is very obstinate and is not listening to the US as events are quickly spiraling. This is is a story point that will be addressed
Point 4: Details of the French/USSR agreement are forthcoming
That said, I appreciate the feedback. I love the scope of knowledge that is evident in these stories and the contributors here.
With that, beware of Ararat brandy.
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Then the US will threaten to bring down the British economy the French economy and cease all aid to both. If Churchill and De Gaulle can't keep their cool then the US will bring them both down and I'm sure Truman and more importantly Churchill and De Gaulle know this.
And as I always remind people - the British PM is not a dictator - s/he is simply the first among equals and increasingly during WW2 WSC was told 'NO WINSTON!' as he was gradually sourrounded by people who were not yes men and could growl back just as loudly.
Warning
yes, this is a silly Plot. but let the author tell his story.
"Plausibility" is a weaksauce complaint, as evidenced by President Donald Trump.
"Plausibility" is a weaksauce complaint, as evidenced by President Donald Trump.
Trump rose in large part due to the people in power being in a bubble of their own delusion.
not to go too far afield, but a post on this board in 2012 detailing the EXACT events of the 2016 election would have been laughed off as too implausible to be believed.
Warning
Not sure that I agree, but certainly it was laughed at in 2015 by many, guess not so much now.
Are you REALLY derailing a WW II thread with current political flamebaiting?
Don't do that!!
Are you REALLY derailing a WW II thread with current political flamebaiting?
Don't do that!!
Chapter 2 - A Deal With The Devil
"The question to me has always been why? Why fabricate? We were clearly in the right, the Syrians were fighting for their independence against a crumbling French colonial structure. And yet he told the world that the French had struck us first. Was it because of the impending election? Was it because of some need to be the wartime leader in the midst of battle? I could never tell."
- Anthony Eden in a 1951 interview with the British Broadcasting Corporation
June 4, 1945 (12:23PM)
The recording had finished. Even over the phone, it was unmistakenly real. Churchill, flush with confidence only minutes was now shaken. Indeed, for once he was without words.
"Mr. Prime Minister, are you still there?" came the voice of President Harry Truman through the phone.
He took another sip of Ararat brandy, while at the same time motioning for his aids to leave the room. Seconds later he was alone.
"Indeed I am, Mr President," he replied. He let his anger rise. "Don't tell me that you are giving credence to a recording from the partisans of De Gaulle."
"This recording was made by the Russian government," replied Truman. "While we cannot yet verify its authenticity, we will assuredly soon enough. With that in mind - for the sake of our alliance and the work that is yet to be undertaken, let me simply ask you Winston. Is it true?"
Churchill exploded. "What is truth? The truth of an apprentice strongman who wishes to fill the shoes of Hitler? Or the truth of a nation that your country has allowed to wrest the fate of tens of millions within its iron embrace? De Gaulle sought to impose tyranny upon the Syrians. He seeks to impose that same tyranny upon his own people. He now aligns himself with those who do the same, but on an even larger scale. The British people did what must be done."
There was quiet on the line for a moment. Then finally Truman responded. "So you do not deny the French and Soviet charges?"
"I deny nothing in defense of the free peoples of the world", the British Prime Minister answered.
Again, there was several moments of silence.
"Mr Prime Minister," said Truman, "This conflict is to end immediately. The French have agreed to withdraw from the Levant. You are to end your military operations against the French at once."
"Then we will go it alone, as it was in 1940," declared Churchill. "The De Gaulle regime has killed hundreds of British sailors and soldiers."
"And you have killed thousands of French civilians," said Truman angrily. "If you fail to comply the United States government will end the Lend Lease Act to Britain, and request immediate restitution on all outstanding debts."
And there it was. The elephant in the room. Or as it was, the titan. The financial state of the British Empire was precarious. The ramifications of such an act by the United States would be ruinous.
"Mr President, I cannot countenance this -"
"It ends now, Winston," came the quick reply. "If not, I will make this recording public to a worldwide audience. We'll see what the British people think of you then."
Churchill sat back. Indeed, he was taken aback.
"Do I have your agreement?"
He stared at the wall, and the window beyond.
"Mr President, I recognize that we are not in a position to wage war against you," said Churchill. "But you have betrayed the British people and you have betrayed the West. This cannot, and will never be forgotten. With that, you have my agreement."
He hung up the phone, then with a roar hurtled his glass against the window.
- Anthony Eden in a 1951 interview with the British Broadcasting Corporation
June 4, 1945 (12:23PM)
The recording had finished. Even over the phone, it was unmistakenly real. Churchill, flush with confidence only minutes was now shaken. Indeed, for once he was without words.
"Mr. Prime Minister, are you still there?" came the voice of President Harry Truman through the phone.
He took another sip of Ararat brandy, while at the same time motioning for his aids to leave the room. Seconds later he was alone.
"Indeed I am, Mr President," he replied. He let his anger rise. "Don't tell me that you are giving credence to a recording from the partisans of De Gaulle."
"This recording was made by the Russian government," replied Truman. "While we cannot yet verify its authenticity, we will assuredly soon enough. With that in mind - for the sake of our alliance and the work that is yet to be undertaken, let me simply ask you Winston. Is it true?"
Churchill exploded. "What is truth? The truth of an apprentice strongman who wishes to fill the shoes of Hitler? Or the truth of a nation that your country has allowed to wrest the fate of tens of millions within its iron embrace? De Gaulle sought to impose tyranny upon the Syrians. He seeks to impose that same tyranny upon his own people. He now aligns himself with those who do the same, but on an even larger scale. The British people did what must be done."
There was quiet on the line for a moment. Then finally Truman responded. "So you do not deny the French and Soviet charges?"
"I deny nothing in defense of the free peoples of the world", the British Prime Minister answered.
Again, there was several moments of silence.
"Mr Prime Minister," said Truman, "This conflict is to end immediately. The French have agreed to withdraw from the Levant. You are to end your military operations against the French at once."
"Then we will go it alone, as it was in 1940," declared Churchill. "The De Gaulle regime has killed hundreds of British sailors and soldiers."
"And you have killed thousands of French civilians," said Truman angrily. "If you fail to comply the United States government will end the Lend Lease Act to Britain, and request immediate restitution on all outstanding debts."
And there it was. The elephant in the room. Or as it was, the titan. The financial state of the British Empire was precarious. The ramifications of such an act by the United States would be ruinous.
"Mr President, I cannot countenance this -"
"It ends now, Winston," came the quick reply. "If not, I will make this recording public to a worldwide audience. We'll see what the British people think of you then."
Churchill sat back. Indeed, he was taken aback.
"Do I have your agreement?"
He stared at the wall, and the window beyond.
"Mr President, I recognize that we are not in a position to wage war against you," said Churchill. "But you have betrayed the British people and you have betrayed the West. This cannot, and will never be forgotten. With that, you have my agreement."
He hung up the phone, then with a roar hurtled his glass against the window.
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If Lend Lease ends and debts are called in at once, the Empire collapses. Almost immediately. There will quickly be starvation, and that leads to riots and revolutions. What Truman has on Winston is that he's being belligerent even with the offer of peace