Es Geloybte Aretz - a Germanwank

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By the way, @carlton_bach - just what does this war end up being called in the world of this timeline?

The Great War?
The Eastern War?
The Russo-German War?

I tend to doubt that a war without the UK, France or the US gets a label as unqualified as "World" or "Great." But that said, it's not immediately obvious to me what the people of this timeline would end up calling it.

I must admit I haven't given it that much thought, but I suppose it would have different names in different places.

In Germany, it would be the Deutsch-Russischer Krieg (later erster Deutsch-Russischer Krieg) or just "der Krieg". From that, I assume most Western countries would adopt a similar designation (Russo-German War, Guerre Russo-Allemande).

In Russia, it is the German War, though some will insist on calling it the Polish War instead.

In Poland, it will be known as the War of Independence (1905-1908).

I guess the Chinese will call it the Russian War. That would be somewhat confusing for the Ottomans since you could call all their recent wars that, so in their case I guess Caucasus War or Young Turk War.

Not sure about the name it'll have in Yiddish.
 
I must admit I haven't given it that much thought, but I suppose it would have different names in different places.

In Germany, it would be the Deutsch-Russischer Krieg (later erster Deutsch-Russischer Krieg) or just "der Krieg". From that, I assume most Western countries would adopt a similar designation (Russo-German War, Guerre Russo-Allemande).

In Russia, it is the German War, though some will insist on calling it the Polish War instead.

In Poland, it will be known as the War of Independence (1905-1908).

I guess the Chinese will call it the Russian War. That would be somewhat confusing for the Ottomans since you could call all their recent wars that, so in their case I guess Caucasus War or Young Turk War.

Not sure about the name it'll have in Yiddish.

This seems reasonable. More than most major wars, it seems to lend itself to different names in different places. (And in daily shorthand for some years it will simply be "the war" ("der krieg," etc.).

And of course once another big war happens, that in turn can change the name(s) again. World War I was usually "the Great War" or "the World War" before the Second hit; and then it needed to be distinguished.
 
Hey Carlton, random question, but with the World Cup currently hosted by Russia and with Germany one of the favorites to win, I got to wondering how professional sports will develop in this timeline. Any significant changes to sports in Europe and Germany in this timeline?
 
Any significant changes to sports in Europe and Germany in this timeline?
Games of the IX Olympiad, Olympiaplein, Amsterdam Zuid, 01 August 1928 [post canon]
The Russian victory over the Germans at baseball became a cause célèbre. Fortunately for historians, Asheville NC author Thomas Clayton was present to pen "Look Home Run, Archangel".
 
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Tehran HQ, Persian Frontier Force, 13 April 1915, (Political Officer, Most Secret) [post canon]
It was therefore concluded that Brig.-Gen. R. E. Dyer CB Indian Army through no fault of his own other than an excess of zeal nevertheless has severely compromised HMG interests in the Baku Protectorate. It is hereby recommended that his future employment be limited to combat rôles and no further call be made upon him to assist civil authority.
 
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Hey Carlton, random question, but with the World Cup currently hosted by Russia and with Germany one of the favorites to win, I got to wondering how professional sports will develop in this timeline. Any significant changes to sports in Europe and Germany in this timeline?

Good question - I'm not entirely sure. Without the cultural dominance of the Anglosphere after WWII, it is likely we'll see more local and regional styles, fewer big international hulabaloos. Of course we would still have the Olypmics and international racing events, but these are not going to turn into things that dominate international news the eay the World cup and Summer Olympics do today. More like Paris-Dakar or Wimbledon - big and profitable for sure, but ignorable and not politically significant.

Within postwar Germany, sport is going to be a very important social phenomenon. First, because it's the twentieth century and people believe in it. Secondly, because it is a form of entertainment that can be provided to the people relatively inexpensively from local resources (building soccer pitches and cross-country trails looks good and creates jobs). Thirdly, because it lends itself so well to collective organisation. For decades to come, sports will be an intensely political thing. What sports you do and who you do it with will locate you in the political spectrum. Socialist organisations will sponsor sporting activities while bourgeois foundations put money into lavishly equipped facilities to lure proletarian youths away from 'dangerous influences'. For a long time, championships (at the member state level) are going to play out among political foes. If VfL Germania Kiel meets Rot Sport Altona in the finals, there will be blood in the streets. When Ha Koah Berlin play 1. FC München, there will be radios on in synagogues from Flensburg to Berchtesgaden.

Now, I envision German sports culture to be more club-oriented and local than the modern Bundesliga. Sponsorship will mostly be from individuals and businesses that identify with 'their boys', there will be fewer superlucrative advertising deals and, as a result, players will move less often and be bid for less aggressively. By the time TV comes aropund, being an athlete can be lucrative, but it isn't a path to instant riches and celebrity.

Given the clubs will not be able to agree on championship formats for a long time, I expect those will ultimately be enforced in the context of some QUANGO-ish association with mandatory membership. That means TV rights will automatically go to public broadcasters. No multimilion-mark contracts, and clubs will have to rely more on merchandise and ticket sales for income.

Beyond soccer, there will be other popular sports in the media. Some of them will be the old gentlemenly entertainments. The nobility have a stronger presence on Germany's media, which means more coverage of equestrian sports, rowing, fencing and lawn tennis. Then there will be the "equalising" mass sports: athletics, handball, boxing, wrestling and increasingly swimming. The military has a strong presence here, with competitors detailed from their regiments to train and attend championship events on full pay as a matter of national pride.

Eventually I am sure there will be international championships in many sports as national federations get their act together, but a lot of the early limelight will be stolen by the Olympics and there will be wrinkles to iron out between different national rules. Some sports will remain mainly national or regional media phenomena - baseball in the United States, cricket in the Empire, savate in the Francophonie, sabre fencing in Germany.
 
Games of the IX Olympiad, Olympiaplein, Amsterdam Zuid, 01 August 1928 [post canon]

Baseball going Olympic that early? Maybe football or handball would be more realistic. Or hockey, for the right kind of casualty count.

Tehran HQ, Persian Frontier Force, 13 April 1915, (Political Officer, Most Secret) [post canon]

I can't see British forces at Baku in any large numbers. Yes, they're effectively in charge, but you shouldn't be so blatant about it.
 
Baseball going Olympic that early? Maybe football or handball would be more realistic. Or hockey, for the right kind of casualty count.



I can't see British forces at Baku in any large numbers. Yes, they're effectively in charge, but you shouldn't be so blatant about it.
Hockey was already in the 1908 Olympics, so that seems a logical one (and was historically also played in 1928). Though I worry it might be unrealistic for Russia to compete at the highest level against Germany, given the basic infrastructure would've needed to be in place almost by the end of the war to win in '28 (which Germany, at least OTL, did have).
 
Good question - I'm not entirely sure. Without the cultural dominance of the Anglosphere after WWII, it is likely we'll see more local and regional styles, fewer big international hulabaloos. Of course we would still have the Olypmics and international racing events, but these are not going to turn into things that dominate international news the eay the World cup and Summer Olympics do today. More like Paris-Dakar or Wimbledon - big and profitable for sure, but ignorable and not politically significant.

Within postwar Germany, sport is going to be a very important social phenomenon. First, because it's the twentieth century and people believe in it. Secondly, because it is a form of entertainment that can be provided to the people relatively inexpensively from local resources (building soccer pitches and cross-country trails looks good and creates jobs). Thirdly, because it lends itself so well to collective organisation. For decades to come, sports will be an intensely political thing. What sports you do and who you do it with will locate you in the political spectrum. Socialist organisations will sponsor sporting activities while bourgeois foundations put money into lavishly equipped facilities to lure proletarian youths away from 'dangerous influences'. For a long time, championships (at the member state level) are going to play out among political foes. If VfL Germania Kiel meets Rot Sport Altona in the finals, there will be blood in the streets. When Ha Koah Berlin play 1. FC München, there will be radios on in synagogues from Flensburg to Berchtesgaden.

Now, I envision German sports culture to be more club-oriented and local than the modern Bundesliga. Sponsorship will mostly be from individuals and businesses that identify with 'their boys', there will be fewer superlucrative advertising deals and, as a result, players will move less often and be bid for less aggressively. By the time TV comes aropund, being an athlete can be lucrative, but it isn't a path to instant riches and celebrity.

Given the clubs will not be able to agree on championship formats for a long time, I expect those will ultimately be enforced in the context of some QUANGO-ish association with mandatory membership. That means TV rights will automatically go to public broadcasters. No multimilion-mark contracts, and clubs will have to rely more on merchandise and ticket sales for income.

Beyond soccer, there will be other popular sports in the media. Some of them will be the old gentlemenly entertainments. The nobility have a stronger presence on Germany's media, which means more coverage of equestrian sports, rowing, fencing and lawn tennis. Then there will be the "equalising" mass sports: athletics, handball, boxing, wrestling and increasingly swimming. The military has a strong presence here, with competitors detailed from their regiments to train and attend championship events on full pay as a matter of national pride.

Eventually I am sure there will be international championships in many sports as national federations get their act together, but a lot of the early limelight will be stolen by the Olympics and there will be wrinkles to iron out between different national rules. Some sports will remain mainly national or regional media phenomena - baseball in the United States, cricket in the Empire, savate in the Francophonie, sabre fencing in Germany.

Popular culture is something I am only belatedly dabbling in with my own surviving Imperial Germany, a more Franco-German "cold" war scenario, no Soviet Union so a different ideological backdrop. I am considering ow Europe remains divided between the "Entente" and "CPs", or example Compagnie Internationale des Wagons-Lits and Mitropa co-exist on opposite sides of the Franco-German divide. Perhaps the French subsume the Olympics to their agenda and Germany creates a competing sporting event, spiraling us into a more divided world. Very much as the Olympics and sport served as a place to show off, demonstrate superiority and earn international standing, I can find it being just as intense as anything between the USA and USSR. The presence of German as a competing lingua franca complicates globalization of culture, as will a thriving German motion picture and TV industry, with German potentially surviving as the second language in the USA longer the cultural ties between the USA and Germany can grow, so no lopsided notion that the USA is just Britain without the posh accents.

So I too would see more national level sport as a more openly nationalist perspective, national teams will be favored where they can compete against other nations but failing that we see the interal sport far more local and regional, more like how a Liverpool and Manchester rival, less England versus whomever. And I do see how television will likely remain far more state-owned as well as dominated, taking away much of the largesse. Here Germany might gain a strong sporting tradition as state sponsorship, cartel like assemblages and access to public funds is easier than say in Britain. So German sport looks similar to Soviet-era amateurs?

And your notion on how a stronger conservative populace in Germany might sustain the more gentile sports, horsemanship, fencing, etc., is quite provoking. And I still see auto racing becoming a place to show off industry and technology, perhaps air races remain more a thing too. Maybe for Germany the international venue is simply more exchange with the Americas, sort of how the World Series is really the USA, Canada and kinda Japan. All very interesting twists and subtle changes to the background of culture and society.
 
Fantastic TL. Very long, but also very, very good. Can't wait to read the continuation (by the way, are you going to post it here or on a different thread?).
 
Fantastic TL. Very long, but also very, very good. Can't wait to read the continuation (by the way, are you going to post it here or on a different thread?).

In a different thread. This is for completed stuff, and I hope to get a lively discussion on the continuation, with some retconning and rewriting to come out of it. Once it's done I'll add it here.
 
Hockey was already in the 1908 Olympics, so that seems a logical one (and was historically also played in 1928). Though I worry it might be unrealistic for Russia to compete at the highest level against Germany, given the basic infrastructure would've needed to be in place almost by the end of the war to win in '28 (which Germany, at least OTL, did have).
 
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