Question: What would the last name be of Edward: Prince of Wales child be if he acknowledged it?
Aviz, or some anglicized form of the name.
Elizabeth the Queen and her Brood
- Thread starter Kynan
- Start date
Aviz, or some anglicized form of the name.
1577: In England Queen Elizabeth dies after a subject by the name of Ursula Simpson, the daughter of a minor courtier had been ruined after the accession of the Queen due to his unkind treatment of her during the early years of Queen Mary I’s reign before Elizabeth’s marriage and accession, stabbed her five times before guards could pull her off the royal. The Queen took three days to die, in which she had her son promise to listen to trusted advisors like Sir Mathew Gregson (a very minor who had saved the Queen from an earlier assassination attempt in 1562 and was given a knighthood and given the title Earl of Denbigh) and Lord Wentworth (a man who had been gifted the title Baron Wentworth of Bletso after good works for the Queen), who were already good friends of the Prince of Wales.
After the death of the Queen the English court went into deep mourning, with the person most affected being the five year old Princess Cecily; who was the first of the children to see her mother’s corpse and cried for a full week afterwards. But the court had to move on and the coronation of Edward VII was to be lavish…on a budget. While Elizabeth had been a careful spender, her son was a thousand times stingier, always looking for slightly less expensive ways to run his household. This translated into his court, where he called for cheaper things, like less balls and banquets. While this early miserly behaviour didn’t earn him much praise, he was careful to point out that the treasury needed refilling and the lavish funeral for his mother would be costly.
“Once we are in a state of financial strength then we shall be more extravagant.”- King Edward VII
Other than the reactions to Elizabeth’s death there were still things that needed to be done. Prince Henry (the new King’s son) had to be vested with the title Prince of Wales and sent to Ludlow. Prince Jasper was sent to Hatfield with several noble boys in a ‘school of nobles and peers’ in an attempt to create a way to keep the young men of court away to stop ‘bad behaviour’. Of course, the bad behaviour had merely moved but that was fine for King Edward. Finally, the royal twins (Edward and Catherine) were sent to the newly repaired Richmond Castle, which had been a gift to the children upon their birth.
In Scotland, Robert Dudley’s reaction to his old friend’s death was that of deep depression. While many had guessed as to how deep the relationship between the two had been, the fact that he didn’t leave his rooms for three weeks after news of her death spoke louder than words as to how strong their bond was. But Queen Mary was not impressed. She wanted to have a son and, if she had to pull her husband out his rooms and slap him to get that baby then so be it. But evidently this worked as she announced a pregnancy in late November, saying it was three months gone.
Other than Mary Stuart’s pregnancy, Princess Catherine continued to dote on baby Blanche and hoped for a second child, apparently not caring if the baby was male or not. But there was no sign of a baby by the end of the year and Catherine prayed for a second baby.
In France, Queen Barbara surprised her husband with a pregnancy early in the year and gave birth in early August. The child was a baby boy named Roland for the favourite character of the King as a child, and given the title Duke of Orleans immediately. The King himself praised his bride as:
“A true wife and kind soul.”
In reaction to this birth, which helped him cement the Valoisian dynasty and gave him another child that he could dote on as vigorously as he doted on Elisabeth, Francis and Joan, the King gave the Queen a raised dress allowance and a palace in Paris.
In Navarre, New Queen Elizabeth of Navarre was very happy to be sending off her sister-in-law Catherine to Spain to be married to King Phillip. While this was going on Elizabeth became pregnant. And was set to give birth in January the next year but went into labour early in December instead. But the child was heathy, with thin blonde hair and big brown eyes.
In Spain, the King gained a wife when Catherine de Bourbon arrived in June. Young and pretty, the King became smitten and, by the end of the year they were expecting. The King took this as a good sign for the future but others thought that it was merely luck.
While this went on Claude de Valois gave birth to a son that was named John for his dead uncle. Healthy and big, the baby was a blessing that came at a cost as the Princess died during childbirth. This was the final straw for Don Carlos’ sanity and he had to be restrained and put in a room away from his children. A sad day for both Phillip and the children, they were immediately placed with their young aunts and were to be raised well.
In Portugal, King Sebastian awaited as his wife went through the ordeal that was childbirth. She had entered the year pregnant and he desperately hoped for a son to save the dynasty, as he knew he was weak and had only an old uncle in the church as his heir before the Spanish would get Portugal. So he waited as his sixteen year old bride gave birth. The news came in with both joy and sadness. He had a son and daughter, named Luisa Maria and João Manuel respectively, but Mary had died giving birth to them. So he took his children and searched for a mother for them, knowing that his country’s fate rested in two infants hands.
After the death of the Queen the English court went into deep mourning, with the person most affected being the five year old Princess Cecily; who was the first of the children to see her mother’s corpse and cried for a full week afterwards. But the court had to move on and the coronation of Edward VII was to be lavish…on a budget. While Elizabeth had been a careful spender, her son was a thousand times stingier, always looking for slightly less expensive ways to run his household. This translated into his court, where he called for cheaper things, like less balls and banquets. While this early miserly behaviour didn’t earn him much praise, he was careful to point out that the treasury needed refilling and the lavish funeral for his mother would be costly.
“Once we are in a state of financial strength then we shall be more extravagant.”- King Edward VII
Other than the reactions to Elizabeth’s death there were still things that needed to be done. Prince Henry (the new King’s son) had to be vested with the title Prince of Wales and sent to Ludlow. Prince Jasper was sent to Hatfield with several noble boys in a ‘school of nobles and peers’ in an attempt to create a way to keep the young men of court away to stop ‘bad behaviour’. Of course, the bad behaviour had merely moved but that was fine for King Edward. Finally, the royal twins (Edward and Catherine) were sent to the newly repaired Richmond Castle, which had been a gift to the children upon their birth.
In Scotland, Robert Dudley’s reaction to his old friend’s death was that of deep depression. While many had guessed as to how deep the relationship between the two had been, the fact that he didn’t leave his rooms for three weeks after news of her death spoke louder than words as to how strong their bond was. But Queen Mary was not impressed. She wanted to have a son and, if she had to pull her husband out his rooms and slap him to get that baby then so be it. But evidently this worked as she announced a pregnancy in late November, saying it was three months gone.
Other than Mary Stuart’s pregnancy, Princess Catherine continued to dote on baby Blanche and hoped for a second child, apparently not caring if the baby was male or not. But there was no sign of a baby by the end of the year and Catherine prayed for a second baby.
In France, Queen Barbara surprised her husband with a pregnancy early in the year and gave birth in early August. The child was a baby boy named Roland for the favourite character of the King as a child, and given the title Duke of Orleans immediately. The King himself praised his bride as:
“A true wife and kind soul.”
In reaction to this birth, which helped him cement the Valoisian dynasty and gave him another child that he could dote on as vigorously as he doted on Elisabeth, Francis and Joan, the King gave the Queen a raised dress allowance and a palace in Paris.
In Navarre, New Queen Elizabeth of Navarre was very happy to be sending off her sister-in-law Catherine to Spain to be married to King Phillip. While this was going on Elizabeth became pregnant. And was set to give birth in January the next year but went into labour early in December instead. But the child was heathy, with thin blonde hair and big brown eyes.
In Spain, the King gained a wife when Catherine de Bourbon arrived in June. Young and pretty, the King became smitten and, by the end of the year they were expecting. The King took this as a good sign for the future but others thought that it was merely luck.
While this went on Claude de Valois gave birth to a son that was named John for his dead uncle. Healthy and big, the baby was a blessing that came at a cost as the Princess died during childbirth. This was the final straw for Don Carlos’ sanity and he had to be restrained and put in a room away from his children. A sad day for both Phillip and the children, they were immediately placed with their young aunts and were to be raised well.
In Portugal, King Sebastian awaited as his wife went through the ordeal that was childbirth. She had entered the year pregnant and he desperately hoped for a son to save the dynasty, as he knew he was weak and had only an old uncle in the church as his heir before the Spanish would get Portugal. So he waited as his sixteen year old bride gave birth. The news came in with both joy and sadness. He had a son and daughter, named Luisa Maria and João Manuel respectively, but Mary had died giving birth to them. So he took his children and searched for a mother for them, knowing that his country’s fate rested in two infants hands.
The Children of Elizabeth I of England (b.1533 d.1577)
1-Edward Aviz: Prince of Wales (b. 1557)
2-Henry Aviz: Duke of York (b.1559: d.1564)
3-Elizabeth Aviz: Princess Royale (b.1559)
4-Mary Aviz: Princess of England (b.1560: d.1577)
5-Thomas Aviz: Duke of Somerset then Duke of York then Duke of Pembroke (Dukedom of York given to crown after marriage to Catherine de Valois: Crown Princess of Scotland in exchange for the Dukedom of Pembroke) (b.1562)
6-Jasper Aviz: Duke of Gloucester (b.1564)
7-Edmund Aviz: Duke of Buckingham (b.1564: d.1564)
8-Anne Aviz: Princess of England (b.1566)
9-Richard Aviz: Duke of Buckingham (b.1567: d.1567)
10-Margaret Aviz: Princess of England (b.1567: d.1570)
11-Arthur Avis: Duke of Somerset (b. 1569)
12-John Avis: Dukes of Suffolk (b.1569: d.1570)
13-Unnamed baby boy (b.1570: d.1570)
14-Unnamed baby girl (b.1571: d.1571)
15-Cecily Aviz: Princess of England (b.1573)
The Children of Edward VII of England
1-Henry: Prince of Wales (b.1572)
2-Lady Isabelle Aviz (b.1574) *illegitimate
3-Edward: Duke of York (b.1575)
4-Catherine: Princess of England (b.1575)
The Children of Mary I of Scotland
1-Catherine de Valois: Crown Princess of Scotland (b.1563)
2-Margaret Dudley: Princess of Scotland (b.1572)
3-John Dudley: Crown Prince of Scotland (b.1573: d.1573)
4-Matilda: Princess of Scotland (b.1575)
5-James Dudley: Crown Prince of Scotland (b.1576: d.1576)
The Children of Catherine de Valois: Crown Princess of Scotland
1-Blanche Aviz: Princess of Scotland (b.1576)
The Children of Robert Dudley: King Consort of Scotland
1-Margaret Dudley: Princess of Scotland (b.1572)
2-John Dudley: Crown Prince of Scotland (b.1573: d.1573)
3-Matilda Dudley: Princess of Scotland (b.1575)
4-James Dudley: Crown Prince of Scotland (b.1576: d.1576)
5-Mathew Dudley (b.1576) *illegitimate
6-William Dudley (b.1576) *illegitimate
The Children of Henry III of Navarre
1-Antoine de Bourbon: Crown Prince of Navarre (b.1575)
2-Charlotte de Bourbon: Princess of Navarre (b.1577)
The Children of Henry III of France
1-Elisabeth de Valois (b.1567)
2-Francis de Valois: Dauphin of France (b.1570)
3-Joan de Valois (b.1575)
4-Roland de Valois: Duke of Orleans (b.1577)
The Children of Phillip II of Spain
1-Carlos: Prince of Asturias (b. 1545)
2-Phillip I of England (b.1559: d.1559)
3-Isabella: Princess of Spain (b.1568)
4-Juana: Princess of Spain (b.1571)
5-Luis Rivera (b.1576) *illegitimate
The Children of Carlos: Prince of Asturias
1-Phillip: Prince of Spain (b.1565)
2-Catherine Marie (also known as Catarina Maria): Princess of Spain (b.1568)
3-Henri: Prince of Spain (b.1570: d.1570)
4-Claudia Marianna: Princess of Spain (b.1573)
5-Manuela Lopez (b.1576) *illegitimate
6-John: Prince of Spain (b.1576)
The Children of Sebastian I of Portugal
1-João Manuel Aviz: Infante of Portugal (b.1576)
2-Luisa Maria Aviz: Infanta of Portugal (b.1576)
1-Edward Aviz: Prince of Wales (b. 1557)
2-Henry Aviz: Duke of York (b.1559: d.1564)
3-Elizabeth Aviz: Princess Royale (b.1559)
4-Mary Aviz: Princess of England (b.1560: d.1577)
5-Thomas Aviz: Duke of Somerset then Duke of York then Duke of Pembroke (Dukedom of York given to crown after marriage to Catherine de Valois: Crown Princess of Scotland in exchange for the Dukedom of Pembroke) (b.1562)
6-Jasper Aviz: Duke of Gloucester (b.1564)
7-Edmund Aviz: Duke of Buckingham (b.1564: d.1564)
8-Anne Aviz: Princess of England (b.1566)
9-Richard Aviz: Duke of Buckingham (b.1567: d.1567)
10-Margaret Aviz: Princess of England (b.1567: d.1570)
11-Arthur Avis: Duke of Somerset (b. 1569)
12-John Avis: Dukes of Suffolk (b.1569: d.1570)
13-Unnamed baby boy (b.1570: d.1570)
14-Unnamed baby girl (b.1571: d.1571)
15-Cecily Aviz: Princess of England (b.1573)
The Children of Edward VII of England
1-Henry: Prince of Wales (b.1572)
2-Lady Isabelle Aviz (b.1574) *illegitimate
3-Edward: Duke of York (b.1575)
4-Catherine: Princess of England (b.1575)
The Children of Mary I of Scotland
1-Catherine de Valois: Crown Princess of Scotland (b.1563)
2-Margaret Dudley: Princess of Scotland (b.1572)
3-John Dudley: Crown Prince of Scotland (b.1573: d.1573)
4-Matilda: Princess of Scotland (b.1575)
5-James Dudley: Crown Prince of Scotland (b.1576: d.1576)
The Children of Catherine de Valois: Crown Princess of Scotland
1-Blanche Aviz: Princess of Scotland (b.1576)
The Children of Robert Dudley: King Consort of Scotland
1-Margaret Dudley: Princess of Scotland (b.1572)
2-John Dudley: Crown Prince of Scotland (b.1573: d.1573)
3-Matilda Dudley: Princess of Scotland (b.1575)
4-James Dudley: Crown Prince of Scotland (b.1576: d.1576)
5-Mathew Dudley (b.1576) *illegitimate
6-William Dudley (b.1576) *illegitimate
The Children of Henry III of Navarre
1-Antoine de Bourbon: Crown Prince of Navarre (b.1575)
2-Charlotte de Bourbon: Princess of Navarre (b.1577)
The Children of Henry III of France
1-Elisabeth de Valois (b.1567)
2-Francis de Valois: Dauphin of France (b.1570)
3-Joan de Valois (b.1575)
4-Roland de Valois: Duke of Orleans (b.1577)
The Children of Phillip II of Spain
1-Carlos: Prince of Asturias (b. 1545)
2-Phillip I of England (b.1559: d.1559)
3-Isabella: Princess of Spain (b.1568)
4-Juana: Princess of Spain (b.1571)
5-Luis Rivera (b.1576) *illegitimate
The Children of Carlos: Prince of Asturias
1-Phillip: Prince of Spain (b.1565)
2-Catherine Marie (also known as Catarina Maria): Princess of Spain (b.1568)
3-Henri: Prince of Spain (b.1570: d.1570)
4-Claudia Marianna: Princess of Spain (b.1573)
5-Manuela Lopez (b.1576) *illegitimate
6-John: Prince of Spain (b.1576)
The Children of Sebastian I of Portugal
1-João Manuel Aviz: Infante of Portugal (b.1576)
2-Luisa Maria Aviz: Infanta of Portugal (b.1576)
1578: In England, King Edward was settling into being a full ruler of England. While his mother had allowed him a small measure of power previously he had never been able to truly test out his idea on this scale before. One of his first acts was to send two ships to the different colonies that had started during his mother’s reign to see what riches they might be able to gain from them. The King had always been interested in the colonies and had wondered why his mother had been so lax about it.
The next change was that he had some of his close friend’s ennobled. The first to gain a title was his governess, Mary Arundel, who had been a second mother to him and became the Viscountess Rochester in her own right. Then his friend Henry Howard, 1st Earl of Northampton was given the title 1st Earl of Lindsey as well as all incomes that this implies. Finally Mister Richard Clere was raised to Duke of Kendal with all the incomes that implies.
In other news, Queen Victoria became pregnant and gave birth to a pretty baby girl that was named Elizabeth. But tragedy struck when, in December, the baby died of unknown causes. Although a sad time, her husband assured her that they could have more. They just needed to continue trying. This tragedy was contrasted with the birth of a second bastard to King Edward by his mistress Lady Mary Ughtred; who was given the title Marquess of Northampton early in the year. The child was a boy named William, who was sent to be a companion to the royal children.
In Scotland, Queen Mary’s pregnancy went well and she gave birth to a healthy daughter that was named Antoinette after the Queen’s aunt. While happy to have another child, Mary was disappointed that she was not blessed with a son.
At the same time Princess Catherine became pregnant again. A quick and (kinda) painless pregnancy, it ended with the princess giving birth to twins, a boy named Charles and a girl named Philippa. With her son she seemed to have done a better job securing the Scottish throne far more than her mother with the multiple Princesses and no Princes from the Queen.
In France, Princess Elisabeth was granted a proposal. Sent from Portugal, it asked that she be wed to King Sebastian in two years’ time, if her father would allow it. While not expected the proposal was a happy one for the French Princess, who was promised to the English Duke of Gloucester, Prince Jasper Aviz. But a King was a great prize and the best the poor, deformed Elisabeth could hope for. So it was agreed to and Elisabeth was sent to leave the next year.
In Navarre, Queen Elizabeth experienced sickness towards the beginning of the year that left her bedridden for weeks. When she left her chambers there was a very obvious holdover from the sickness as poor Elizabeth was horribly scarred, losing much of her beauty. But the most supportive person through this was her husband the King, who promised to love her no matter how she looked.
In Spain, Prince Phillip of Spain received the shocking news that his father Carlos was dead. While they were estranged due to his insanity he was still the boy’s father and as such mourned. The Prince’s death was of ‘unknown’ causes, with many gossiping that the King had had the man poisoned to prevent him from taking the throne and destroying the empire. At this time Prince Phillip was rumoured to possibly be granted the Kingship of the Netherlands. This proved false however, and Phillip merely gave him a knighthood to add to his natural titles.
On the subject of Prince Phillip, he was granted his wife when, late in the year, Anne of England arrived and stole the hearts of the Spanish court. While not the prettiest of the English Princesses (the young Cecily was shaping up to have both the traditional beauty of the Yorks with Anne Boleyn’s eyes), she was very comely and sweet-natured, with enough intelligence to impress the King and Prince.
At this time Queen Catherine’s pregnancy came into fruition, with a beautiful daughter named Maria Luisa. The King of Spain was thrilled, feeling that this meant he would have many more children by his pretty little wife.
In Portugal, the King made ready for his French bride, at the same time managing to annoy the Spanish with his refusal to have waited to marry Princess Isabella, who had been offered strongly early after the death of Queen Mary. The slight was not unnoticed and this created tension amongst the two countries. AT the same time Portugal also managed to offend the Scottish ambassador, who was denied access to the King over some trivial matter while the English ambassador was not denied access over a similar matter. While none of this meant war, the country was not in the strongest of positions at this point.
The next change was that he had some of his close friend’s ennobled. The first to gain a title was his governess, Mary Arundel, who had been a second mother to him and became the Viscountess Rochester in her own right. Then his friend Henry Howard, 1st Earl of Northampton was given the title 1st Earl of Lindsey as well as all incomes that this implies. Finally Mister Richard Clere was raised to Duke of Kendal with all the incomes that implies.
In other news, Queen Victoria became pregnant and gave birth to a pretty baby girl that was named Elizabeth. But tragedy struck when, in December, the baby died of unknown causes. Although a sad time, her husband assured her that they could have more. They just needed to continue trying. This tragedy was contrasted with the birth of a second bastard to King Edward by his mistress Lady Mary Ughtred; who was given the title Marquess of Northampton early in the year. The child was a boy named William, who was sent to be a companion to the royal children.
In Scotland, Queen Mary’s pregnancy went well and she gave birth to a healthy daughter that was named Antoinette after the Queen’s aunt. While happy to have another child, Mary was disappointed that she was not blessed with a son.
At the same time Princess Catherine became pregnant again. A quick and (kinda) painless pregnancy, it ended with the princess giving birth to twins, a boy named Charles and a girl named Philippa. With her son she seemed to have done a better job securing the Scottish throne far more than her mother with the multiple Princesses and no Princes from the Queen.
In France, Princess Elisabeth was granted a proposal. Sent from Portugal, it asked that she be wed to King Sebastian in two years’ time, if her father would allow it. While not expected the proposal was a happy one for the French Princess, who was promised to the English Duke of Gloucester, Prince Jasper Aviz. But a King was a great prize and the best the poor, deformed Elisabeth could hope for. So it was agreed to and Elisabeth was sent to leave the next year.
In Navarre, Queen Elizabeth experienced sickness towards the beginning of the year that left her bedridden for weeks. When she left her chambers there was a very obvious holdover from the sickness as poor Elizabeth was horribly scarred, losing much of her beauty. But the most supportive person through this was her husband the King, who promised to love her no matter how she looked.
In Spain, Prince Phillip of Spain received the shocking news that his father Carlos was dead. While they were estranged due to his insanity he was still the boy’s father and as such mourned. The Prince’s death was of ‘unknown’ causes, with many gossiping that the King had had the man poisoned to prevent him from taking the throne and destroying the empire. At this time Prince Phillip was rumoured to possibly be granted the Kingship of the Netherlands. This proved false however, and Phillip merely gave him a knighthood to add to his natural titles.
On the subject of Prince Phillip, he was granted his wife when, late in the year, Anne of England arrived and stole the hearts of the Spanish court. While not the prettiest of the English Princesses (the young Cecily was shaping up to have both the traditional beauty of the Yorks with Anne Boleyn’s eyes), she was very comely and sweet-natured, with enough intelligence to impress the King and Prince.
At this time Queen Catherine’s pregnancy came into fruition, with a beautiful daughter named Maria Luisa. The King of Spain was thrilled, feeling that this meant he would have many more children by his pretty little wife.
In Portugal, the King made ready for his French bride, at the same time managing to annoy the Spanish with his refusal to have waited to marry Princess Isabella, who had been offered strongly early after the death of Queen Mary. The slight was not unnoticed and this created tension amongst the two countries. AT the same time Portugal also managed to offend the Scottish ambassador, who was denied access to the King over some trivial matter while the English ambassador was not denied access over a similar matter. While none of this meant war, the country was not in the strongest of positions at this point.
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Alas, poor Queen Elizabeth! Her remarkable life cut short! But now her eldest shall rule, and she has more than provided for the succession, so I doubt there will be any Stuarts to sit on the throne any time soon.
Oh, one thing that I noticed: in 1577 you had Claude of Valois dying after giving birth to her son, John, but she was mentioned in 1578 reacting to the death of Don Carlos. Typo?
Thanks for the update! Things are certainly getting particularly interesting with the slow changing of the guard!
Oh, one thing that I noticed: in 1577 you had Claude of Valois dying after giving birth to her son, John, but she was mentioned in 1578 reacting to the death of Don Carlos. Typo?
Thanks for the update! Things are certainly getting particularly interesting with the slow changing of the guard!
Hmm this timeline is being very interesting, but I must remind you an important fact: Edward 5th of Guimarães was not a Habsburg at all. He was a son to Edward, 4th Duke of Guimarães and Isabella of Bragança. Edward 5th's closest relations to the Habsburgs by blood was that of being a third cousin to Holy Roman Emperor Charles V (and his siblings), since Edward's great-grandfather Ferdinand of Viseu was a sibling to Charles's great-grandmother Isabella of Portugal, Holy Empress by marriage.
Also, he was a first cousin once removed to Charles, but through Trastámara blood, being a grand-nephew to Joan 'The Mad', but he himself had no Habsburg blood.
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Alas, poor Queen Elizabeth! Her remarkable life cut short! But now her eldest shall rule, and she has more than provided for the succession, so I doubt there will be any Stuarts to sit on the throne any time soon.
Oh, one thing that I noticed: in 1577 you had Claude of Valois dying after giving birth to her son, John, but she was mentioned in 1578 reacting to the death of Don Carlos. Typo?
Thanks for the update! Things are certainly getting particularly interesting with the slow changing of the guard!
I'll fix that. There's way to many people to keep up with
I'll change it to Trastámara colouring, which was similar I believe? Correct me if I'm wrong though
#I can't edit it anymore
But the change needed is noted
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I'll change it to Trastámara colouring, which was similar I believe? Correct me if I'm wrong though
Well, Joan 'the Mad' and Philip 'The Handsome' shared common ancestry through Portuguese (House of Avis) and Aragonese (Houses of Barcelona and Trastámara) monarchs who lived during Late Middle Ages. The famous Habsburg lip/jaw was inherited through the polish noble Cymburgis of Masovia, great-grandmother to Philip but unrelated to Joan or any of the Trastámaras.
I must correct myself about one thing: Edward 5th was a first cousin, with no "removal", to Philip II. But again, through Avis-Trastámara blood: Isabella of Portugal, Philip II's mother, was the elder sister to Edward 4th of Guimarães, father to his namesake.
Just out of curiosity, here's his pedigree.
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Duarte would be a nephew-by-marriage of Philip and Joanna through his grandmother Maria of Aragon.
Anyway I like the TL, it is fun to see the Virgin Queen with her twelve children. To be honest my only real criticism is one that is pretty universal in timelines of this period. Not enough people die. I don't mean to be morbid, and I only mean to be somewhat flippant. You've made up for it some near the end, and I appreciate the random drowning deaths. Infant and child mortality in particular was super high especially in royal families (thanks inbreeding, syphilis etc) and I appreciate touches of realism.
Actually I'm not sure about the religious situation. Elizabeth did not reverted England back to Anglicanism after Mary's death? It's not too late for England to be re-catholicized as long as there isn't too much propaganda and shit stirring. Obviously no Book of Martyrs. What is going on with Navarre though? I know Joan of Navarre publicly converted to Calvinism in 1560, and was from then on a spiritual leader of the Protestants. However I can't imagine Philip II marrying a Protestant or even the daughter of a Protestant.
I like Robert Dudley as king consort of Scotland (echoes of otl), he and Mary are an interesting match. I'm quite curious to see where that goes and crossing my fingers for discussion of an Act of Union. Elizabeth of Valois is also intriguing.
And maybe when you list children you could have sub-headings indicating which spouse had which child for kings/queens who had children from more than one marriage. Philip II alone necessitates it. I think Philip II of Spain the eternal widower is a historical constant.
Last thing, I was very happy to see the surviving Jagellions. Poland is hopefully going to have a better time of it, especially if Sigismund Augustus passed some of his brains down to his kids.
Anyway I like the TL, it is fun to see the Virgin Queen with her twelve children. To be honest my only real criticism is one that is pretty universal in timelines of this period. Not enough people die. I don't mean to be morbid, and I only mean to be somewhat flippant. You've made up for it some near the end, and I appreciate the random drowning deaths. Infant and child mortality in particular was super high especially in royal families (thanks inbreeding, syphilis etc) and I appreciate touches of realism.
Actually I'm not sure about the religious situation. Elizabeth did not reverted England back to Anglicanism after Mary's death? It's not too late for England to be re-catholicized as long as there isn't too much propaganda and shit stirring. Obviously no Book of Martyrs. What is going on with Navarre though? I know Joan of Navarre publicly converted to Calvinism in 1560, and was from then on a spiritual leader of the Protestants. However I can't imagine Philip II marrying a Protestant or even the daughter of a Protestant.
I like Robert Dudley as king consort of Scotland (echoes of otl), he and Mary are an interesting match. I'm quite curious to see where that goes and crossing my fingers for discussion of an Act of Union. Elizabeth of Valois is also intriguing.
And maybe when you list children you could have sub-headings indicating which spouse had which child for kings/queens who had children from more than one marriage. Philip II alone necessitates it. I think Philip II of Spain the eternal widower is a historical constant.
Last thing, I was very happy to see the surviving Jagellions. Poland is hopefully going to have a better time of it, especially if Sigismund Augustus passed some of his brains down to his kids.
1) Thanks for the clarification
2) Thanks. And yeah, I realised that too many people weren't dying so I decided to up the ante and kill off a bunch of people. Hopefully I can keep it up without going overboard.
3) On the religious situation, Elizabeth was influenced by her husband, who was a strong (if adaptable) Catholic and helped her come to a compromise with the Church. The situation will change with the next English monarch, who will be very interesting. And Navarre is still overall a Protestant country, just less so than OTL. Henry III of Navarre is, as OTL, a man who is willing to change religion at will and is currently, outwardly Catholic in a country that practices both forms of Christianity. And Catherine de Bourbon, t my knowledge, was as flighty religion wise as her brother and, in this timeline:
"Spain is worth a mass."
4) Yes, Robert and Mary are not necessarily a happy couple, but they are an interesting one. They don't love each other but understand that they can't back out now and are quite comfortable in their respective companies. Also, I know I'm going to realise this is a stupid question later when the answer decides to return to my brain, but what do you mean by 'Act of Unions'? Are you referring to the Personal Union between Scotland and England? Also, why was Elizabeth de Valois interesting? She died quite early.
5) Will do
6) Poland is currently stable. Sigismund is doing well, but there is an obvious problem as he doesn't want to marry at all. This will change soon, but until then the Polish people wait for the King to find some woman and get a baby to be heir.
I'll just give her Richmond than
Can't Pembroke be raised to a dukedom? Well at least create a dukedom of Pembroke (probably next to other Pembroke titles).
Thanks
And to address the thing that I addressed when asking that question, there will probably be a later Act of Unions, I am just not sure when yet. But it will happen.
Catherine de Bourbon was hardly as flighty as her brother as far as religion was concerned. She maintained her religion after her marriage to the ultra-Catholic duke of Lorraine, and also represented a Protestant counterweight to the Catholic Gabrielle d'Estrées after Henri became king of France in '89. So, IMHO, she's not going anywhere near Madrid - unless as a prisoner. On being told she's gonna marry the king of Spain, she might even decide to emulate her mother and pitch such a fit that she has to be carried kicking, screaming and foaming at the mouth to the altar.
Henri III is not gonna be naming his child 'Roland', the last time that happened, with Charles VIII's son, Charles Orland, several of the French nobles/princes of the blood caused a hissy at the christening due to a king of France having such a 'foreign' name. And it was agreed that he be Charles Orland in French, but Orlandus Carolus in Latin.
. On being told she's gonna marry the king of Spain, she might even decide to emulate her mother and pitch such a fit that she has to be carried kicking, screaming and foaming at the mouth to the altar.Henri III is not gonna be naming his child 'Roland', the last time that happened, with Charles VIII's son, Charles Orland, several of the French nobles/princes of the blood caused a hissy at the christening due to a king of France having such a 'foreign' name. And it was agreed that he be Charles Orland in French, but Orlandus Carolus in Latin.
1) Catherine de Bourbon was hardly as flighty as her brother as far as religion was concerned. She maintained her religion after her marriage to the ultra-Catholic duke of Lorraine, and also represented a Protestant counterweight to the Catholic Gabrielle d'Estrées after Henri became king of France in '89. So, IMHO, she's not going anywhere near Madrid - unless as a prisoner
Henri III is not gonna be naming his child 'Roland', the last time that happened, with Charles VIII's son, Charles Orland, several of the French nobles/princes of the blood caused a hissy at the christening due to a king of France having such a 'foreign' name. And it was agreed that he be Charles Orland in French, but Orlandus Carolus in Latin.
I'm talking about her beliefs earlier in her life. I'm not sure when I read it, but apparently she had a period in her early years when she was practicing Catholicism. In addition to that, she is a lot younger here in the company of an overwhelmingly Catholic environment. Even the Navarrian(?) court has a Catholic Queen. So I believe that, in this timeline she might be persauded to change religions.
And on the name Roland, what if I change it to Henri Roland? I thought that it might be a way to get some variety in names but if it is too much then I'll change it.
1579: King Edward is dealt a surprise at the beginning of the year when Prince Arthur comes to him and asks if he may marry his childhood friend Penelope Devereux as they are in love. While the King laughs at the cuteness of his brother and the girl in their adamant statements of true love, it reminds him that his sibling’s will need wives and husbands. The first on his list is Prince Jasper, who is a court heart throb and at 15 might do something silly. So he begins to look for suitable brides for the boy (ignoring the betrothal to Princess Elisabeth of France, because that is for ambassadors), looking to Spain and loudly wondering to his ambassadors:
“Are the Princesses Catarina or Isabella yet betrothed?”
Other than that the King is feeling especially war-hungry and privately ventures about the possibility of invading France. While he does not wish to drain the treasury, he loves the idea of retaking Normandy and other ancient English territories. His advisers don’t outright say no, but there is no reason at the moment to invade France. So best wait until they have offended someone in Europe and therefore have offended the English King. So they wait for France to make the wrong move, with Edward crossing his fingers,
In Scotland, Queen Mary I Scotland makes a huge announcement. She is planning a trip with her eldest two daughters to France to meet with the French King Henry III. While the news itself is big, there is also another level.
The joint regents for the country during this 6 month leave will be her husband, King Consort Robert Dudley, and Prince Thomas Avis in preparation for the future when Thomas shall rule with his wife.
So the preparations for the trip to France are made, with the Queen and Princesses gaining new wardrobes and sets of jewellery done in sapphires and emeralds on silver for both girls, with the Queen gains a gold and ruby necklace and crown set. They are set to leave on New Years Day.
In France itself; there a problem. They need to break off the betrothal with England between Prince Jasper and Princess Elisabeth but England has sent a message with their envoys stating that they want a different bride in her place. So the French Royal Court is scoured for possible matches, and they look to Princess Margaret to finally marry. While she is eleven years older than Prince Jasper, she has said she wants a husband now and the apparently handsome youth will be just fine, thank you very much. So the proposal is sent and Princess Elisabeth leaves and arrives in Portugal that year.
Other than that, Queen Barbara suffers a mild case of the flu that seems to get worse and worse until she is thin, sickly and close to death. At the news that his sister is so sick, the King of Poland immediately begins to get ready to leave to go and sit at her bedside, gaining permission to take Sister Maria (his other sister) with him in this trip. While his advisors advise him not to do this, he is extremely family oriented and leaves immediately.
In Navarre, the Queen is still hiding in her rooms, refusing to be seen by the court with her scarred skin and almost bald head. But that doesn’t mean she doesn’t see her husband, who sets aside an hour a day to see her and has his evening meals with the Queen and their children. So, with all the attention, it is no wonder that the Queen announces a pregnancy late in the year.
Other than that, little Prince Antoine shows himself to be a surprisingly intelligent when he manages to escape his rooms in the castle in which the royal family is staying in and finding the horse stables, where he is found sitting and staring at a pony. At the request of the King the pony is bought for the boy and his riding lessons begin.
In Spain, Prince Phillip is formally given the title Prince of Asturias upon his formal wedding to Anne of England. Excited with the idea of power, he quickly jokes that maybe when he is king so too might little John, who the Prince is fond of as his only brother. But this is met coldly by the Spanish monarch, who refuses even the idea that the empire that his father spent so long creating might split. So Prince Phillip walks away, muttering about how the empire would be better in pieces.
Other than that, the prince has a fun surprise when his bride quickly conceives and the date for their firstborn (hopefully) son is set for June the next year. Princess Anne, who is the woman expecting, is particularly thrilled as she is named ‘a miniature of her mother’, even though she is having children much earlier.
In Portugal, King Sebastian greets his new wife with as much happiness as he can muster, which is to say not much. Still really over the death of his first wife, the King sees this as merely something that he has to do for his children and country. So he greets the shy Princess Elisabeth, who is terribly embarrassed when her wig falls off and has to cover it up with a witty comment that leaves most of the court laughing but has the King merely making a polite ‘ha’. But she attempts to have the court love her if the King will not, because why should she be unhappy just because the man she is now tied to decides to be.
“Are the Princesses Catarina or Isabella yet betrothed?”
Other than that the King is feeling especially war-hungry and privately ventures about the possibility of invading France. While he does not wish to drain the treasury, he loves the idea of retaking Normandy and other ancient English territories. His advisers don’t outright say no, but there is no reason at the moment to invade France. So best wait until they have offended someone in Europe and therefore have offended the English King. So they wait for France to make the wrong move, with Edward crossing his fingers,
In Scotland, Queen Mary I Scotland makes a huge announcement. She is planning a trip with her eldest two daughters to France to meet with the French King Henry III. While the news itself is big, there is also another level.
The joint regents for the country during this 6 month leave will be her husband, King Consort Robert Dudley, and Prince Thomas Avis in preparation for the future when Thomas shall rule with his wife.
So the preparations for the trip to France are made, with the Queen and Princesses gaining new wardrobes and sets of jewellery done in sapphires and emeralds on silver for both girls, with the Queen gains a gold and ruby necklace and crown set. They are set to leave on New Years Day.
In France itself; there a problem. They need to break off the betrothal with England between Prince Jasper and Princess Elisabeth but England has sent a message with their envoys stating that they want a different bride in her place. So the French Royal Court is scoured for possible matches, and they look to Princess Margaret to finally marry. While she is eleven years older than Prince Jasper, she has said she wants a husband now and the apparently handsome youth will be just fine, thank you very much. So the proposal is sent and Princess Elisabeth leaves and arrives in Portugal that year.
Other than that, Queen Barbara suffers a mild case of the flu that seems to get worse and worse until she is thin, sickly and close to death. At the news that his sister is so sick, the King of Poland immediately begins to get ready to leave to go and sit at her bedside, gaining permission to take Sister Maria (his other sister) with him in this trip. While his advisors advise him not to do this, he is extremely family oriented and leaves immediately.
In Navarre, the Queen is still hiding in her rooms, refusing to be seen by the court with her scarred skin and almost bald head. But that doesn’t mean she doesn’t see her husband, who sets aside an hour a day to see her and has his evening meals with the Queen and their children. So, with all the attention, it is no wonder that the Queen announces a pregnancy late in the year.
Other than that, little Prince Antoine shows himself to be a surprisingly intelligent when he manages to escape his rooms in the castle in which the royal family is staying in and finding the horse stables, where he is found sitting and staring at a pony. At the request of the King the pony is bought for the boy and his riding lessons begin.
In Spain, Prince Phillip is formally given the title Prince of Asturias upon his formal wedding to Anne of England. Excited with the idea of power, he quickly jokes that maybe when he is king so too might little John, who the Prince is fond of as his only brother. But this is met coldly by the Spanish monarch, who refuses even the idea that the empire that his father spent so long creating might split. So Prince Phillip walks away, muttering about how the empire would be better in pieces.
Other than that, the prince has a fun surprise when his bride quickly conceives and the date for their firstborn (hopefully) son is set for June the next year. Princess Anne, who is the woman expecting, is particularly thrilled as she is named ‘a miniature of her mother’, even though she is having children much earlier.
In Portugal, King Sebastian greets his new wife with as much happiness as he can muster, which is to say not much. Still really over the death of his first wife, the King sees this as merely something that he has to do for his children and country. So he greets the shy Princess Elisabeth, who is terribly embarrassed when her wig falls off and has to cover it up with a witty comment that leaves most of the court laughing but has the King merely making a polite ‘ha’. But she attempts to have the court love her if the King will not, because why should she be unhappy just because the man she is now tied to decides to be.
Catherine's practising Catholicism was probably tied to her time at the French court. Her mother AFAIK was Catholic, Protestant, then Catholic and Protestant again, dying a convinced Calvinist reportedly. Religiously, Jeanne III is said to be much like OTL Elizabeth I, no one was quite sure what SHE was.
Also, Henri IV was prisoner at the French court for 3 years following St-Barthélemy. In that time he became Catholic to save his hide, but abjured it as soon as he was back on Navarrese soil.
Also, why is Élisabeth de Valois marrying D. Sebastiao when Margot (OTL Queen of Navarre) was offered. Margot is still a spinster here - and a rather desperate one too, marrying Jasper.
And lastly, if the TTL queen of Navarre is anywhere near as witty as her maternal grandma was, can she pass Gabrielle d'Estrées' comment about Henri stinking so bad that if he wasn't the king, no one would go near him?